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Author Topic: Suggestion - PvP rule changes  (Read 8059 times)

Bad_Bud

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2009, 06:23:21 PM »
Stump isn't buffing up and defending the outskirts, either.

failed.bard

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2009, 08:54:56 PM »
Am I the only one that realizes there's an inn about thirty yards away from the temple, and gives you a full heal at any time for only ten fang?  Any heal cap longer than 1 IG hour is pointless.
Stump isn't buffing up and defending the outskirts, either.

  Hence the suggestion that once you remove yourself from the PvP, you're out of it.  I used the ML temple as the example because that's the one that gets abused the most, but the inn is the same thing.


  Of course, if the setting specific repurcussions for killing someone, or raising someone, and the PnP repercussions for being raised were used, you wouldn't have a need  for either of the things I suggested, because nobody would want to get into a PvP.

Ric

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2009, 09:51:09 PM »
The problem is, DPs should be handled with care.  I'd be pissed off if we had DPs going off at the rate they used to be, since there was barely any consideration of what sort of 'appropriate' DP to give to the character, which made DPs more like a 'punishment' than a fun addition to the RP.  I happen to think that today's DPs are very fun for the sake of bringing new challenges and obstacles for your character, but the speed of which you accumulate the curses shouldn't be happening too fast, for the sake of power and for the sake of development (unless you have really bad luck with rolls.)

Another note of importance is that most dark powers end up broken strong by stage 3-5, which would just make people want to get DP'd the 'easy' way by ressurection-spamming, then stopping after hitting a stage where they're uber.

hi-di-ho

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2009, 11:15:24 PM »
The problem is, DPs should be handled with care.  I'd be pissed off if we had DPs going off at the rate they used to be, since there was barely any consideration of what sort of 'appropriate' DP to give to the character, which made DPs more like a 'punishment' than a fun addition to the RP.  I happen to think that today's DPs are very fun for the sake of bringing new challenges and obstacles for your character, but the speed of which you accumulate the curses shouldn't be happening too fast, for the sake of power and for the sake of development (unless you have really bad luck with rolls.)

Another note of importance is that most dark powers end up broken strong by stage 3-5, which would just make people want to get DP'd the 'easy' way by ressurection-spamming, then stopping after hitting a stage where they're uber.

Umm... did you post on the wrong thread?

Heretic

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2009, 11:20:10 PM »
Umm... did you post on the wrong thread?

Refrain in the future from doing the moderator's job. That isn't your role. Don't reply to this either.


Lets get back on topic now.

hi-di-ho

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2009, 11:47:38 PM »
 :| Mmm....

...Right 8)

PvP has its place, I just wish that when someone dies in POTM they stay dead better...
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 11:49:44 PM by hi-di-ho »

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2009, 11:55:03 PM »
Happens more often than you'd know.. well if you played the game you would know. ;)

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hi-di-ho

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2009, 12:04:55 AM »
Happens more often than you'd know.. well if you played the game you would know. ;)

When I left, Cherry was dead. When I came back Cherry is alive...

I seen some very unlikable characters that are kept being revived, that seemed more out of respect for the player than for IC reasons...

and etc...

I wish characters in POTM stay dead better ;)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2009, 12:06:51 AM by hi-di-ho »

Heretic

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2009, 12:11:19 AM »
Lets keep this on topic and cut the passive personal attacks. 

The topic is PvP rule changes.


Thank you.
 


Aran

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2009, 02:36:16 AM »
just let lizuka cast only minor healing spells.

wouldnt have impact on lower level chars as most would be fully healed in one or 2 dialogues.

put in a few seconds timer on her dialogue.


then higher level chars would need a bit of time getting fully back, lower levels wouldnt, it would make sense that heal were reserved for those near the brink of death in a dm controlled rp situation.

worth a thought ?

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Bad_Bud

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2009, 03:55:05 PM »
just let lizuka cast only minor healing spells.

wouldnt have impact on lower level chars as most would be fully healed in one or 2 dialogues.

put in a few seconds timer on her dialogue.


then higher level chars would need a bit of time getting fully back, lower levels wouldnt, it would make sense that heal were reserved for those near the brink of death in a dm controlled rp situation.

worth a thought ?

Aran

Ah, finally an elegant solution.  I like it!

And by minor I hope you mean cure critical wounds?  I think anything less than that would be too minor.

boompowclash

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2009, 09:23:38 PM »
Maybe when Lizuca runs out of healing she uses normal bandages on people.

Ric

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2009, 09:41:53 PM »
Sadly though, with what people said earlier about the free-resting being so readily available, nerfing Lizcua would just make people run to the inn to get healed.

Unless ... We changed the rules of the Free-Rest zones, where instead of giving infinite rests + 100% healing, they simply just give infinite rests.  Makes sense anyway, since I've always found it weird that having a large gaping wound could easily be slept through.  Using it to restore raise-sickness is perfectly legit, since you obviously would need rest after such a scenario, but I don't think health should be fully restored with free-rest zones.

But heck, we might as well branch that topic into another thread, since now I'm actually intrigued with the idea of making healing more valuable by making free-rest areas not equal to instant-healing.  Least it would give all our clerics more opportunities to do their job, since most people will just turn down a cleric saying "I'll just go get some rest," when they're bleeding everywhere. 

Bad_Bud

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2009, 10:37:07 PM »
Sadly though, with what people said earlier about the free-resting being so readily available, nerfing Lizcua would just make people run to the inn to get healed.

Unless ... We changed the rules of the Free-Rest zones, where instead of giving infinite rests + 100% healing, they simply just give infinite rests.  Makes sense anyway, since I've always found it weird that having a large gaping wound could easily be slept through.  Using it to restore raise-sickness is perfectly legit, since you obviously would need rest after such a scenario, but I don't think health should be fully restored with free-rest zones.

But heck, we might as well branch that topic into another thread, since now I'm actually intrigued with the idea of making healing more valuable by making free-rest areas not equal to instant-healing.  Least it would give all our clerics more opportunities to do their job, since most people will just turn down a cleric saying "I'll just go get some rest," when they're bleeding everywhere. 

And then people would rest twice instead of once?  Changing that part of it wouldn't make a difference.

Ric

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2009, 10:58:59 PM »
So don't allow hp-restores during free rests?

ThAnswr

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2009, 12:22:06 AM »
Here's a suggestion or two:  Leave things the way the way they are instead of coming up with ever more complicated solutions to problems that don't exist. 

If you're a monster PC, find a better place to wreak havoc instead of crowded areas with 2 rest zones, with one of them free.  PvP is a crap shoot.  You take your chances. 

As for low levels who come up wounded from the crypts, get healed by Lizuca, and then go down into the crypts again to finish the job, more power to you.  That's what this game is all about.  Grit, determnation, and a little bit of luck. 

And here's the best suggestion of all:  Play your own game instead of worrying about someone else who isn't playing the game the way you think they should. 



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failed.bard

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2009, 01:37:07 AM »
  Running inside and resting, something that's supposed to represent an actual passage of time, so you can heal, rebuff, and go out and "win" isn't just a matter of playing your own game, it's exploiting the limitation of the game engines in regards to a multiplayer environment.  The DM and Dev team may not see it that way, but the majority of the people posting in this thread seem to.
  PvP is /not/ playing /your own game/, it's doing something that impacts another player, or in some cases, the entire server.

ThAnswr

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2009, 03:37:25 AM »
  Running inside and resting, something that's supposed to represent an actual passage of time, so you can heal, rebuff, and go out and "win" isn't just a matter of playing your own game, it's exploiting the limitation of the game engines in regards to a multiplayer environment.  The DM and Dev team may not see it that way, but the majority of the people posting in this thread seem to.
  PvP is /not/ playing /your own game/, it's doing something that impacts another player, or in some cases, the entire server.

There is no exploitation.  You take your chances during PvP.  You take even more chances when you decide to PvP in a crowded area with 2 rest zones, one of them free. 

Btw, running inside and resting does represent a passage of the time.  That passage of time is the time it takes to rest.  Healing, rebuffing, and going out again to face an enemy or finish the job is a legitimate tactic. 

Of course the agressor can choose to follow the target into the rest area or church, but won't do it because they'll get their ass handed to them on a platter.  Especially if they charge into the church.   Should the lightcarriers or Radu be nerf'ed to make up for the agressor's stupidity? 

Any player can choose time and place to PvP.  Apparently, a few didn't choose wisely.  Tough.  That's life. 

This still seems like another solution in search of a problem. 

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2009, 05:27:10 AM »
honsetly in regards to the carriers and radu uh yeah i think a little nerf might not be a bad idea especially radu seriously that man is a freaking tank period and if you ask me goes beyond the 'normal' barovian in strength and such so less there is some ic reason sure i could see a bit of a nerf to him in regards to strength of fighting

failed.bard

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2009, 06:25:49 AM »
  Wilhelm could wipe out the ML temple in less than 30 seconds, and he's not even a good build for PvP.  Radu would take even less time than that.
 The reason monsters don't go in and kill the healer is, one, they're not allowed to unless a DM is present, and two, they have more courtesy to their fellow players than that.  Since there are a good number of players that refuse to show that same courtesy back on their own, since they know nothing will ever happen to their characters for doing these things, I think it's a valid suggestion.

ThAnswr

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2009, 11:45:33 AM »
  Wilhelm could wipe out the ML temple in less than 30 seconds, and he's not even a good build for PvP.  Radu would take even less time than that.
 The reason monsters don't go in and kill the healer is, one, they're not allowed to unless a DM is present, and two, they have more courtesy to their fellow players than that.  Since there are a good number of players that refuse to show that same courtesy back on their own, since they know nothing will ever happen to their characters for doing these things, I think it's a valid suggestion.

Sorry for the harsh tone earlier.  Shooting from the hip at 3:30AM is never a good idea.

I never said someone should go into the temple and kill the healer. What I meant was taking the fight to the person who ran into the temple.  That may be disrepectful, but I wasn't aware a werewolf or wererat was that discerning.  That, I believe, is not against the rules.  And not very smart. 

But, honestly, you answered your own question here: 

Quote
The DM and Dev team may not see it that way, but the majority of the people posting in this thread seem to.

Until they do, there will not be any changes and the reason for that is they see the big picture.  Usually, not always, these suggestion threads are a result of something that happened ingame.  Something happened to somebody and they didn't like it.  So they want the game changed in some way.  And the player community gets riled up.  Then it dies down, until someone else brings up. 

We've had this discussion before and I believe it was determined that leaving a fight, running back into the temple to rest or be healed, and then running out to fight again is NOT transition abuse or an exploit.  It is a legitimate tactic.

The monster PC should also use the opportunity to rest or heal or just run away.  The point was made.  The monster PC got their fight.  It's time to move on instead of facing a stronger enemy who may have just found a few friends inside who are also spoiling for a fight.  Or stand and wait and face the consequences.

I understand it must be very frustrating to be a monster PC and find out you (generic you) are not all powerful or you've given up so much for the template.  Some don't last very long because they take chances like attacking in a crowded area with 2 rest zone. 

Others seem to be around forever, like Yves Zun, because they don't take chances.  They pick their spot carefully with an eye to escape and not just "the show".  Their reputation goes on while other monster PC's are long buried.  There's a reason why Yves Zun has lasted.  They play smart.

Bottom line, I really wish suggestions would be made directly to the developers.  The decision will be made there and not here.
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hi-di-ho

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #46 on: March 08, 2009, 12:15:41 PM »
There is no exploitation.  You take your chances during PvP.  You take even more chances when you decide to PvP in a crowded area with 2 rest zones, one of them free. 

Of course the agressor can choose to follow the target into the rest area or church, but won't do it because they'll get their ass handed to them on a platter.  Especially if they charge into the church.   Should the lightcarriers or Radu be nerf'ed to make up for the agressor's stupidity? 

Any player can choose time and place to PvP.  Apparently, a few didn't choose wisely.  Tough.  That's life. 

This still seems like another solution in search of a problem. 

Actually, I feel it is.

If a heavily wounded man, covered in sword cuts comes in and demands healing, you might be curious and heal them. Because the only place where one can get sword cuts is down below. One might be suspicious that this man is getting in trouble with people outside, possibly the Garda. If the aggressor comes inside there should be a reaction from the light carriers and the priestess, in the form of questions and warnings that there shall be no blood spilled in the temple. Because the DM isn't on to defend or stop people from fighting in the temple or help one of the two against the other, it is rather using the place like a vending machine getting a cool refreshing drink after a hard day's work rather than using it as a believable environment.

If it wasn't for the limitations of everyone's computers working at different speeds, the victim wouldn't be as lucky to even reach the priestess... :cloud9:

Vespertilio

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #47 on: March 08, 2009, 04:43:15 PM »

I'd played a server with a system that when the pc died you had to make a d20 roll to see how much the character remembered about the death, 11 or under you couldn't recall such things as who killed you or what happened in the moments leading up to the death. 12 and up you could recall some details but iirc most people never rp'd totall recall unless they rolled a 20. It worked quite well and tended to break up the cycle of die, raise, rush back out and get revenge by creating an ic cooling down period where most folks had to ask who might have witnessed their death to learn what happened to them and by who. In cases with no witnesses it took a little bit of investigating ic to find out what had happened, which I always felt was rather fun rp.  I don't recall it ever being abused and though there was a lot of CvC conflict most players were courteous about making a roll and sticking with what the dice indicated.  Villains who did a lot of killing were not getting off easy because most characters did recall something or found out the details from other players icly.

A roll or some kind of set time such as no character can recall icly the last five real time minutes before the characters death might have a similar function on Potm?


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DM Nocturne

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Re: Suggestion - PvP rule changes
« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2009, 05:36:30 PM »

I'd played a server with a system that when the pc died you had to make a d20 roll to see how much the character remembered about the death, 11 or under you couldn't recall such things as who killed you or what happened in the moments leading up to the death. 12 and up you could recall some details but iirc most people never rp'd totall recall unless they rolled a 20... 

I've been on a couple of servers similiar to this - that if you were killed, you don't remember the last moments of your life. It is basically a courtesy to evil PCs and prevents players from [getting killed::raised::immediately rallying a mob::destroying evil pc reputation::killing him off]

Here's a suggestion or two:  Leave things the way the way they are instead of coming up with ever more complicated solutions to problems that don't exist. 

If you're a monster PC, find a better place to wreak havoc instead of crowded areas with 2 rest zones, with one of them free.  PvP is a crap shoot.  You take your chances. 

As for low levels who come up wounded from the crypts, get healed by Lizuca, and then go down into the crypts again to finish the job, more power to you.  That's what this game is all about.  Grit, determnation, and a little bit of luck. 

And here's the best suggestion of all:  Play your own game instead of worrying about someone else who isn't playing the game the way you think they should. 

I'd have to agree with this. If you're playing a monster PC, it's in your best interests to be careful with the fights you pick. Well done to Yves Zun.

Besides, as a low level, it's fun to hunt down in the crypts, take risks (those beetles really destroy you), and if you survive and make it back, it's a relief.