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Author Topic: Feats - Improved Knockdown and player monsters  (Read 2768 times)

Wids

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Feats - Improved Knockdown and player monsters
« on: December 16, 2008, 09:34:54 AM »
Not to sound like a whiny snot (well, maybe a little...), but I have encountered a few player-character monsters in recent months.  And I'm starting to notice something which most if not all of them seem to have in common.  So, after extensive interviews (which mostly involved the PC monsters trying to kill Viorica, one of whom actually succeeded and took her prized battle axe which had hacked her way through small armies of wights and vampire spawn before that moment...), I found that the three most recent results supported my hypothesis quite nicely:

The wererat: had Improved Knockdown.
The werebear: had Improved Knockdown.
The demon-tailed wight/vampire thing: had Improved Knockdown.

Improved Knockdown would make perfect sense for the werebear--it's big, strong, powerfully built and physically suited to bowling people over with ease--but I'm not so sure about the other two.  So I have to wonder: does Improved Knockdown come with all PC monster packages, or is everyone just picking up the necessary stats to pick up Improved Knockdown for the sake of (some very one-sided) fun?

I swear, with as many times as you see charging monsters get impaled on spears and whatnot in the movies, you would think that Knockdown attempts would at least provoke Attacks of Opportunity like Disarm attempts and regular unarmed strikes do....  :?

Neeeed inpuuut.

Kaspar

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Re: Feats - Improved Knockdown and player monsters
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2008, 09:44:32 AM »
Well, my Wight has this feat. He needed a such and such base attack bonus before he could select it. I look at Improved Knockdown as a sort of greater version of knockdown, since the character became better at "Knocking people down". Whether it's bull dozing them over, tripping them up, or setting them off balance and blowing on them.

Far as I know, no monstrous templates get Improved Knockdown. It's something that comes along with feat progression. Much like Toughness or Improved Power Attack.


Taty

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Re: Feats - Improved Knockdown and player monsters
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2008, 09:52:59 AM »
Speaking as "The demon-tailed wight/vampire thing" I can say that I had this ability when I was a lowly mortal. My character was a Vardo it was required for my bounty hunting skill set.

Rex

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Re: Feats - Improved Knockdown and player monsters
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2008, 10:14:50 AM »
Well, my Wight has this feat. He needed a such and such base attack bonus before he could select it. I look at Improved Knockdown as a sort of greater version of knockdown, since the character became better at "Knocking people down". Whether it's bull dozing them over, tripping them up, or setting them off balance and blowing on them.

Far as I know, no monstrous templates get Improved Knockdown. It's something that comes along with feat progression. Much like Toughness or Improved Power Attack.


'
Slam Attack.  Wights and Vamps are actually supposed to be pretty good at slapping you around, but let's face it, they took the feat because they can spam it.  Much like the Non Monster PC's.  Hell I've never been on a server where IKD is used so prevalently (more of an IDA guy myself, all the Zorro movies as a kid).  You see it in a lot of PvP since pretty much it's the easiest way to keep folk from Transition hopping (using superior transition time to make an escape, as opposed to waiting till the other person is on the other side of the transition with them), easiest way to keep people from using the Walk Backwards Combat Exploit, or HipS (Though Monster NPC's can still Hips if they get KD'ed, in fact it triggers it), Or in the case of One Trick STR Ponies, keeps you from carving them up into sausage.

My last Fight with Undead PC's, had the Melee-er firing off IKD like no tomorrow (Something which is Nigh Useless against Otto btw but if they wish to Lower their AB by that much in the attempt, more power to them).  It's especially effective for the folks with SNEAK attack since they then get SA damage on a KD'd opponent, it's also a favorite tactic for their Slap you over run away thing or shoot and scoot to the nearest Transition thing.

In short, it's just a feat, like any other feat picked up by anyone else.  It gets used the same way everyone else uses it (just harder to use it against them due to the insane AC's some of them have)  There's a very EASY IC way to address the issue though if you are interested.  I wouldn't worry about it because the Justification for it is like you saw and when folks feel justified about it for whatever reason there's no getting around it, just turns into a big stinky argument.  best way, is to handle it ICly the way that you would do so, per your PC's motivations. 
 

~Rex
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Aran

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Re: Feats - Improved Knockdown and player monsters
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2008, 11:54:03 AM »
well ehh welll

what rex said

damn lol

aran

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Madnobody

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Re: Feats - Improved Knockdown and player monsters
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2008, 09:50:51 AM »
Monster pc's are just like non monster pc's with other abilities added. If it's out in the outskirts attacking people, chances are the player feels like fighting. Improved knockdown is just a useful tactic thats a standard across the board. If it works, the opponents on the ground,and can't act until they get up.*Shrug* If you looked at the melee fighters with high enough ints on the server, you'd notice most or all have the feat as soon as they qualify. It's just one of those staples.


Rex

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Re: Feats - Improved Knockdown and player monsters
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2008, 11:18:39 AM »
Monster pc's are just like non monster pc's with other abilities added. If it's out in the outskirts attacking people, chances are the player feels like fighting. Improved knockdown is just a useful tactic thats a standard across the board. If it works, the opponents on the ground,and can't act until they get up.*Shrug* If you looked at the melee fighters with high enough ints on the server, you'd notice most or all have the feat as soon as they qualify. It's just one of those staples.



I think the point of the negative aspects of it is no one likes to be spammed with anything.

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Knas

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Re: Feats - Improved Knockdown and player monsters
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2008, 01:44:56 PM »
Not sure what the purpose of this thread is, but just to make sure, player monsters are free to pick w/e feats they wish and level in normal classes, not monster classes - they only get the monster race bonuses.

Rex

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Re: Feats - Improved Knockdown and player monsters
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2008, 02:18:11 PM »
Not sure what the purpose of this thread is, but just to make sure, player monsters are free to pick w/e feats they wish and level in normal classes, not monster classes - they only get the monster race bonuses.

There is a lot of stuff that can add up to a considerable advantage.  Mostly though the point was, Do they get IKD for free, because so many of them IKD spam (like everyone else does).  Point was clarified, and the rest is just examples and what not.  People always gravitate towards what will provide them the maximum benefit vs other Players in a computer game, and IKD is one of those Gruesome beat down feats for Sneak attackers and what not, or on the other side, one of those kick the crap out of the monster before it runs to the transition (transition etiquette is Another topic).  Might be a different story though if the Undead set up was Charisma dependent (don't think it is), and they had to level in Monster as a class to gain monster ability oomph (pretty sure they just get given abilities = to Max Monster Class).  One never knows.

Still, feats a feat.  They take it like everyone else for whatever reason they feel justified in.  There are IC ways to handle it.  Proactivness is next to Godliness.

~Rex
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Knas

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Re: Feats - Improved Knockdown and player monsters
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2008, 03:54:18 PM »
Very well then, question was answered thread is done.

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