Area - Silvers mines - New changes feedback

[failed.bard]

I'm not sure if it's on a random spawn set-up, but the upper two levels were all crag cats and bears when I was in there.  I greatly preferred the variety before of having wolves and bears on top level, cats, wolveringes, and spiders on the mid level, and the shadow animals on the lower level.

  The new random effects are interesting, but have no real value, and do nothing to make the mines harder, just more annoying.  The random polymorphing is probably the single dumbest feature ever implemented in any videogaome.  Ever.  It does nothing to add either to setting or challenge, and after the twentieth time in a half hour it's pretty obvious it's just there because someone thought it would be funny.

  The shadow creatures are still worth far too little XP for the threat, Wilhelm got more XP reading the headstones at the entrance to the vampire crypts then he did from the top two levels of the mines, plus the first third of the shadow level.

  As the sole positive, the loot in the piles seems to have been fixed finally.

[kenpen]

I tried this place w/ some folks after they told me there were supposed to be some cool changes. We got to the end, there were a lot more massive spellcasting animals. Still no boss, still no loot on the last level. The crag cats on the top level were the only significant change I saw. Overall, doesn't seem to really have been changed that much.

[Kaspar]

Guess I'll chime in. I was there on one of my characters, and when he was polymorphed into a chicken, his STR was dropped pretty low. That caused the movement system to kick in almost immediately, and when he turned back into his human form he couldn't move. Luckily we weren't in combat then.

[failed.bard]

I forgot to add in the initial post, I was attacked by a waff every single rest attempt, most time as soon as I selected rest, regardless of whether I chose sit or study spell book for the rest option.  This essentially forces you to leave the dungeon completely, and once you do that you may as well walk the extra minute to the bunkhouse for the free rest and full heal.

[Iconoclast]

I experienced the silver mines recently.  Not having heard about any changes, I thought a dm was just having a laugh polymorphing everyone into chickens and fairies.  In the end, due to the high frequency of polymorphing, we turned around and didn't risk any pvm. 

The first and second time turning into a chicken was amusing and had its comic value, but it was too much, too frequent, and it took away from the immersion.  I'd either tone it way down, or remove it.

[Kaspar]

I experienced the silver mines recently.  Not having heard about any changes, I thought a dm was just having a laugh polymorphing everyone into chickens and fairies.  In the end, due to the high frequency of polymorphing, we turned around and didn't risk any pvm. 

The first and second time turning into a chicken was amusing and had its comic value, but it was too much, too frequent, and it took away from the immersion.  I'd either tone it way down, or remove it.

Same thing I thought. Figured DM Heretic was having a nice laugh at turning Shin'ichi into a chicken and a fairy multiple times. We know how much he loves those visual effects. 

[Rex]

I experienced the silver mines recently.  Not having heard about any changes, I thought a dm was just having a laugh polymorphing everyone into chickens and fairies.  In the end, due to the high frequency of polymorphing, we turned around and didn't risk any pvm. 

The first and second time turning into a chicken was amusing and had its comic value, but it was too much, too frequent, and it took away from the immersion.  I'd either tone it way down, or remove it.

Aren't the silver mines infested with Fey critters?  I can think of multitudes of Horror Stories where someone is turned into an edible farm animal.  Turning folks into other things is a classic Fey trick as well.

~Rex

[boompowclash]

I experienced the silver mines recently.  Not having heard about any changes, I thought a dm was just having a laugh polymorphing everyone into chickens and fairies.  In the end, due to the high frequency of polymorphing, we turned around and didn't risk any pvm. 

The first and second time turning into a chicken was amusing and had its comic value, but it was too much, too frequent, and it took away from the immersion.  I'd either tone it way down, or remove it.

  I'll spend my two cents on this

[Metal_ash]

I just come from a little visit down the silver mines on mount Baratak and i just wonder what the idea behind that polymorphing that's going on down there is about really.
And not only that, dispel hits you, blindness, silence and then we have the polymorph spell, all seems to happend totally random and there is no saves against them what so ever.
Sure i know that place is cursed and you got a good feeling that it was to before this changes.
Now it is just bothersome and actually rather boring to travel down there as it is only so fun to RP all the things that's going on down there for so long.
The problem i have is that you sometimes not even have the time to finish what you are about to say before you turn into a chicken...again!
I just wonder what the idea is behind this changes of the silver mines.
Again this is just my thoughts and opinions about it, and yeah...i liked it better before.


PS: Please do not turn this thread to one more thread about loot and spawns

[nakedxXbeauty]

  The new random effects are interesting, but have no real value, and do nothing to make the mines harder, just more annoying.  The random polymorphing is probably the single dumbest feature ever implemented in any videogaome.  Ever.  It does nothing to add either to setting or challenge, and after the twentieth time in a half hour it's pretty obvious it's just there because someone thought it would be funny.

I have to completely agree with this.  I don't know the real reason for even HAVING this, but at this point there are -no- possible saves for randomly turning into a chicken every 10 seconds..?  This is more than annoying, especially when you're carrying around how many pounds of ore?  Maybe this little effect should be reconsidered, because it isn't fun, and it does absolutely nothing for those of us who are just trying to play.  Just my opinion.

[Metal_ash]

I post again here as not to far ago i was down the silver mines again...and again i left them, not because it was to dangerous or to scary but most because i was annoyed with how often this tranceformations takes place, and again not only that, blindness and silence and god knows what else hits you down there, totally random and no saves against it, or spell resistance working towards it.
The mines is a nasty tough place to manage with just the animals without turned in to a chicken in the middle of the fight and be encumbered and not able to run away, and if you manage to get away...you just manage to change back to human form to again be turned in to a chicken before even be able to join the few fighters trying to hold of the animals.
Thanks// Ash.

[Taty]

One has to wonder if the ridiculous difficulty in getting both coal and silver is there to discourage crafting or to make silver steel weapons less common. Maybe to increase the price ? Regardless it makes little sense to me to make this wonderful crafting system, the best one I have ever encountered, and then do everything possible to ensure it isn't used. Sadly the spill over to other areas of the game is now there too.

 I recently was at Von Zeklos crypts and got diseased. My Str was reduced to 3 so obviously I got exhausted frequently and easily. The result was having to log off between available rest periods because I could do little but stand there and talk in tells. The commonness of both disease and poison makes having your character crippled very easy if not likely. So in essence the system is now resulting in people logging off because they don't want to waste 2 hours of real time to get back to a healer and people not bothering with the crafting system because it simply isn't worth the nonesense to use it.

The silver mines are the worst example of this because of its distance, the obvious weight you will incur to make the trip worth it, and the high likelyhood of death because chickens don't fight so well.

But as we are in a constant state of experimentation we can assume that this like so many other things is just a trial open to improvement.

Solution. Gives save and Magic resistance some value in the mines. Reduce poison and disease effects on str, maybe target dex or something. Have a low spawn at the coal mines that doesn't require an 18th lvl cleric or a vampire spawn to gain access to it.

 While I believe the motives behind these things were well meaning, I think experience has shown the impediments to be too effective and hurting peoples enjoyment of the server.

One has to wonder how Barovians would ever use steel or coal since their fear of magic would prevent them from ever having access to these places.

My two cents
~Taty~

[Bad_Bud]

So in essence the system is now resulting in people logging off because they don't want to waste 2 hours of real time to get back to a healer and people not bothering with the crafting system because it simply isn't worth the nonesense to use it.

I've never heard anyone make an argument even remotely similar to that.  If you can't carry enough, you can ask for help.  In fact, part of the addition of the inability to move when overly encumbered was to encourage roleplay by making people find those that can do the job...

Letting a disease drain your strength to the point that you can't move is not reason for something needing to be changed.  It must take around five minutes before disease even makes you roll a fortitude check, and by then you could have easily run to the Von Zeklos keep and asked for a disease removal... let alone by the time it took all of the strength away.  Or you could have asked for a player to help.  We're always willing to come help when something unfortunate and fun-breaking happens.  You can also buy potions of cure disease and antidote from herbalists, or carry lesser restores for emergencies when you get stuck.

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As for the effects in the silver mine, I think they has been tweaked to the point that they actually aren't ridiculous anymore, though I think the polymorphs should be changed to not affect a character's con score.  Several times I got turned into a chicken and fell over because my con went from 16 to 8, and I don't think that's the intention.   

The loot dropping in the rubble piles was very nice compared to what it was for the longest time.  Gold rings, silver necklaces, mid level gems; pretty good stuff.  I was very happy with what I found.  Way better than 12-16 gp and some moldy arrows.  I think it would be nice if there was a single treasure chest at the end, even if what was in it was never all that fancy.  Maybe a chance for a litany stone or a diamond on max spawn.

The monsters at the end!  Wow!  The massive shadow bears truly are MASSIVE now!  That place is hard.  Level 14 sorceror couldn't get past two waves of those things.  It was nice to have something be a challenge that couldn't just be waltzed through solo style.  I'll have to bring some friends. 

[HellsPanda]

the effect is completly random, so yes this time it might have seemed doable. but the next time you could spend 2 hours as a chicken. at least thats what it seems like to me, and I have spent alot of time mining silver for people. It can get rough even for a level 18 cleric unless your really carefull

[Taty]

Guess you haven't been there in awhile, the Keep is closed to outsiders. Also the crypts are for low levels, so having potions is unlikely something you can afford, if you can find them in the first place. As for your theory on the str, I went from 14 to 3 in a few minutes.

 I know you seem to be strongly against what I have suggested here, but I am not one to state an opinion if I am alone it, I have heard these comments from a good many people, especially would be crafters when they hit the need for coal and silver. While I find your offer of help very sweet I try to avoid calling on people for ooc help whenever possible, there is no lightening your load from a 3 strength short of dropping everything you own, so now we have an alternative death where you need rescues for disease on top of death ? Your offer illustrates the problem quite nicely thank you.

~Taty~

[Bad_Bud]

Actually what I meant is that Sedrik is around the outskirts quite often and has one of the highest weight capacities on the server.

Still, disease just doesn't take you down that fast...

You could even hire a party to go get all the silver and coal for you while you did nothing but wait to pay them.  I know I gather coal for people almost every time I'm down in the coal mine, or at least send them a message telling them that the monsters are out and they can come mine it themselves.  If you want to start being informed, by all means ask.  I feel you are complaining about something before you have first asked for help in game.  The old saying... help people who help themselves.  I don't see any problems.  In fact I think things are finally balanced and awesome when it comes to gathering silver and coal.  This is why I oppose you.

....and what's the difference between asking for ooc help and performing an ooc log off?

[Taty]

I must have dreamed the whole experience  . Maybe stats is a factor ? Class ?
 It was a rogue with low fort saves, I agree a fighter would weather it better. But you miss the point. The encumberance system is in place to stop power crafting for smiths, but it carries over to other aspects of the game that I suspect were unforseen. All of your answers are from the perspective of a fighter who is a herbalist, which is of course limited .

[HellsPanda]

also if you bring more people I have heard a theory that the effect spreads out, so that its not always one person spending too much time as a chicken/pixie etc

not sure about this myself, need testing

[Taty]

Bud, your answers on coal mining are from the perspective of someone who knows a good number of people on the server. I suspect if I had a smith character I have the resources to gather a party to get my stuff, but not everyone has that luxury. I am sorry you disagree so strongly but I am getting the sense you are arguing for the sake of arguing because you don't have these problems with 1 character. I like to look at how things impact the broader player base, to assume everyone new or old has the resources and network I do is just ridiculous.

~Taty~

[Zedrik]

Bud, your answers on coal mining are from the perspective of someone who knows a good number of people on the server. I suspect if I had a smith character I have the resources to gather a party to get my stuff, but not everyone has that luxury. I am sorry you disagree so strongly but I am getting the sense you are arguing for the sake of arguing because you don't have these problems with 1 character. I like to look at how things impact the broader player base, to assume everyone new or old has the resources and network I do is just ridiculous.

~Taty~

Ulfga, without someone like Denali acting as agent, has problems getting stuff because most of the time she is encumbered from silver (cause I keep every bit of silver I can cause going into those caves was evil. And that was before the random transformation crap) and I hate walking around like that and asking people to do stuff. When I had someone who could network like that, I didn't need to keep a ton of silver on me because she could pull on her puppet strings and get someone to deliver a bunch of silver for the task at hand. Coal has a similar issue, but fortunately doesn't weight near as much.

Then you have these new smiths selling things for WAY too little. Because they can get all their junk together an afford low prices without thinking about the server economy at all. When Ulfga got to the point she could start making steel, she was given a little talking to by one of the great smiths of the time about economy and such.

The new smiths just seem interested in flooding the market with silver and steel so that silvered steel weapons and steel armor are pretty much standard gear.

This has pretty much killed any interest I had in playing Ulfga except for the few times I want to play her, log her in, sit around trying to sell things or grab commissions, get nothing, and log out.

[Metal_ash]

To bring it back on the topic of the silver mine.
The problem i have for now is that the polymorph happend way to often and that it is not a save of any kind against it.
And to answer Jerv...yeah, whole party's can be turned chicken or a pixy at the same time, at one point three out of four that was there with me was polymorphed in some way or the other.
Also as i said before to, even without all polymorph or them other spells (curses) hits you it is a nasty tough place to manage.. But at least you have a fair chance if you are carefull.

And yeah, as this is my 666s post on the forum this one is holy for me

[Nefensis]

Is there a spell resistance rolled or something?

Anyhow like Zedrik pointed out, there WAS a beginning of a connection made with Denalie to provide crafters with their needs but since that connection was killed i had to start over again with Stela, well i was at that point but that plan got killed in the egg, so starting over AGAIN. We'll get there someday. 

[Eledaar]

no spell resistance checks... at least not on the polymorph I believe.

[EO]

The script should have been updated in the latest update. It should tone down the probability of occurance and also removed the chicken shape since it was causing issues with other systems.

Aside from that, it's mostly unchanged. And jerv is right, the more people, the more spread out the effects. The less people in a party, the more likely you are to be affected.

[kenpen]

Are there any loot drops there now?