You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: Systems - Whats a critical failure when opening a chest? 10 under DC?  (Read 1995 times)

Helaman

  • What the hell am I doing here?
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3475
I tried to break open a chest, rolled 5+3 for my first roll and was told it was a critical failure.

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

Ryltar/ Robert Archer

  • The Cult of the Morninglord
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3127
  • The Chuck Norris of RP -Eraldur
Re: Systems - Whats a critical failure when opening a chest? 10 under DC?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2008, 10:58:47 PM »
yep if i recall from what was said less then 10 on your roll vs the DC means a critical failure

failed.bard

  • Guest
Re: Systems - Whats a critical failure when opening a chest? 10 under DC?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2008, 02:07:30 AM »
Any roll more then 10 below the bash DC is a critical failure, to put it more plainly.

This also should have been under systems, so Delphi will be moving it shortly.

Inquizitor

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
Re: Systems - Whats a critical failure when opening a chest? 10 under DC?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2008, 09:36:33 AM »
How does a critical failure differ from your normal failure?  Do you fail so badly it opens?
Current Characters:
(Inactive)Alexandru Tomescu - Caliban - Misunderstood
(Inactive)Vincent "Torin" Nighthammer - Darkon - Apprentice Dwarven Defender
Erwin Alder - Falkvonian - Werner's Bodyguard

failed.bard

  • Guest
Re: Systems - Whats a critical failure when opening a chest? 10 under DC?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2008, 10:26:50 AM »
Critical failures break things inside the chest, I'm assuming starting with potions and other more fragile things, but I really don't know the system they used for determining that part.  Gold does not break.

Rex

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3948
Re: Systems - Whats a critical failure when opening a chest? 10 under DC?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2008, 10:37:49 AM »
Still a big fan of the crowbar.  Not that big of a fan of the crit failure since it tends to suffer from the NwN Wiff Factor.  Still it keeps people from charging piles of summons at trapped chests (another issue) and using dire bears as lock picks.  I think though, rolling a natural 1, should break the crowbar.

~Rex
Sometimes brutal violence is the only answer.

dented paladin

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: Systems - Whats a critical failure when opening a chest? 10 under DC?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2008, 12:54:47 PM »
rolling a natural 1 shouldn't break the crowbar, crowbars don't break that easily..check one out at the home depot sometime. However a natural 1 should hurt the user of the crowbar, like the crowbar slips and because your hand wasn't in the right spot, you sliced it open, doing 2d4 damage.. or, nice job there, the crowbar slips as you applied force, and whacked you upside the forehead for 1d6 point's of damage, and dazed the crap out of you for 1d4 turns.
I also believe that is more practical than breaking an object inside a locked container, esp if the container is made of stone, or a hard wood.
perhaps a Dex check when taking out any object from a container is more applicable for seeing if something breaks (potions, glass or whatever)

Rex

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3948
Re: Systems - Whats a critical failure when opening a chest? 10 under DC?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2008, 09:27:59 AM »
rolling a natural 1 shouldn't break the crowbar, crowbars don't break that easily..check one out at the home depot sometime. However a natural 1 should hurt the user of the crowbar, like the crowbar slips and because your hand wasn't in the right spot, you sliced it open, doing 2d4 damage.. or, nice job there, the crowbar slips as you applied force, and whacked you upside the forehead for 1d6 point's of damage, and dazed the crap out of you for 1d4 turns.
I also believe that is more practical than breaking an object inside a locked container, esp if the container is made of stone, or a hard wood.
perhaps a Dex check when taking out any object from a container is more applicable for seeing if something breaks (potions, glass or whatever)


I think, after 25 years in the construction business, and having more then a few Breaker Bars, crowbars and such bent into ruined versions of the Letter "U", I can safely say they can break (As in become useless, I've only snapped 2 breaker bars and one demo crow bar).  I've even managed to break, the pry jaws of the smaller FUBAR from Stanley, though the bigger one seems to be holding up just fine and I can yank Re-bar out of slurry-crete walls with that one.  They are tough to break granted unless you are using Chinese Dropped forged Metalic Knock Off die Cast Snot metal.

The slipping and whacking yourself with them, well, got the scars to.  Try racking yourself with a crotch full of 5" Brazilian Cherry plank floor as it's launched catapult fashion off the end of a bent breaker bar.  I think it would be a bit tough though to code in damage, and factoring in the Wiff Factor of the NwN engine, rather not listen to people cry about how they killed themselves trying to get into the chest be it from the Wiff damage or the 90 point trap going off in their face after they finally break it open but took to much wiffle damage from the attempt to withstand the trap.

Breaking the item though itself, should be relatively easy.  Also, would be nice to see a few different types, different weights, different +'s to popping open a chest or a door.  Just a thought. 

~Rex
Sometimes brutal violence is the only answer.

dented paladin

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: Systems - Whats a critical failure when opening a chest? 10 under DC?
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2008, 10:55:48 AM »
i don't work in construction, but I do use a crowbar occasionally, as well as a flat bar, breaker bar, and even a catspaw. when you live in an old home, you need to use these things from time to time. I have never broken the crowbar, or even bent it, and can say it isn't from a lack of trying. Perhaps if i did use a crowbar everyday, then i would have broken one by now. I have however hurt myself more times than i can count from using these items, from stuff flying up and hitting me in the eye, a lovely sensation, cutting myself open, gotta love the nurse who can stitch you up fast, and bruising the crap out of a number of places, head, torso, you get the idea. Hurting oneself from using a crowbar in my opinion, is more likely than bending or breaking the bar.

Now i have used the crowbar in game, and it is a nice feature, especially since i don't play lock pickin thieves that often. I have only broken items inside the container 3 times, which i will say is less than 5% of the total times i have used the crowbar. However, in real life, i have hurt myself on a crowbar closer to 15% of the time, from a minor hand smash, to the more interesting types of pain. the other thing i will mention is sometimes in real life you can use a crowbar, be successful at what you want to do with it, open/pry off whatever, and still hurt yourself. I mention that because i think the server could have a more realist system in place in the scripting, than you break an item in the container.

some of the things that could be done in the current script randomly:
you tire yourself out trying to pry the object open- cant move till you rest (use of part of encumbrance system)

you open the object but hurt yourself doing it take damage

the bar bends, crowbar is replaced with bent crowbar, still works but with a -5 modifier.

the object opens, the noise you made doing so (as i have yet to be completely quiet using a one) attracts the attention of a nearby baddie.

and of course, the ever popular, you break something inside the container as you jostle it around.

Could also add the entire container and everything in it smashed because your such a strong one.


of course the system is fine how it is now. I won't complain if nothing is changed to it at all. I just wanted to post some ideas to round it out a bit, if the dev's wish to do so.

Dented

Rex

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3948
Re: Systems - Whats a critical failure when opening a chest? 10 under DC?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2008, 11:05:24 AM »
Don't get me wrong I would be all for the damage factor myself, broken many the small bone one way or another with these things not to mention the cuts and tears and even one to the bone puncture in the thigh.  Coding that in though, COULD be a mess.

But it might work easily if they do it as a factor of what it missed the Needed DC by, and then, Mangles the crowbar on a natural one.

Could work.

I still like the idea of having Different types of Crowbars with different modifiers.  Much like you pointed out the "Crowbar" Family is actually pretty varied, and having different Bars of Different weights and Modifiers would be a nice flavor.  Certainly useful.


I do like the added Noise factor too.  Even something as simple as prying off Wall Base can elicit a shriek of protest that wakes up the neighbors and it always seems to be the more quiet you try and be with the stupid things the more noise it makes. 

Might be worth looking into adding a few of those types of negative modifiers and then decreasing the range of the "critical Failure" margin to tone down some of the NwN Die Roller Wiff factor.  Still I also think the Crowbar is one of the better additions to the game I always am in favor of Mundane Items that actually Do something.

~Rex
Sometimes brutal violence is the only answer.