Items - Witch-hunter Armors

[Delphinidae]

Well, I leave that to you guys. Made the armor variations just to show how to obtain that higher SR and have it drop. Just remember that if you want SR 18, the penalty has to hurt and make sense. The lowered skills/stat/whatever shouldn't be things you'd never miss, but things that you would need somewhat. Remember you can't have it all.

If you want to experiment and later submit it to the Item Request Thread so that the armors might be changed, open up your toolsets and remember to load the RL hakpacks in order so that the pricing system works.

[kenpen]

Eh. 36 SR would make you completely immune to all but the most powerful casters. Considering how common the SR objects are to come by, that might be a little bit overkill.

Maybe we should just throw out the money limit as far as SR goes. Give some more special armors SRs of 20-24, and make them only uber drops.

Considering How Common CASTERS are, I don't see the issue.  The Armor, doesn't show up that often and I have yet to see WHERE it drops or if it drops in something heavier then banded mail.  The Amulets, I might find 1, every 2 months or so.

~Rex

Man, this stuff drops ALL the time. It's not uncommon. I find one every couple of days.

[kenpen]

Problem here is the limitations of the item cost due to the low magic setting. In order to get an effective SR, the penalties on the armor are going to be so stiff that people still won't likely wear it unless you can ensure the SR gets up around 24. A good example would be the mageslayer amulet. Check out the penalties on that. I mean, sheesh.

No one is going to wear armor with penalties like that unless it makes them completely immune... because they're so hefty that the mage could probably just forgo all magic use, walk up, and kill the person without casting a spell.

Maybe the best bet is just to remove SR from the witch-hunters and give them other stats. The 5 resist magic and a universal save or something. SR can be put on other things, like rings or the rods that make it easier to remove if needed.  Haven't seen any SR rings, so that would be nice. Or maybe a helmet.

[kenpen]

And, another option is always this:

The Developers could decide that spell resistance shouldn't be so expensive, and lower the cost of it in the toolset. :-P Prices have already been tweaked around on other abilities, and having some effective spell resistance at the highest item cost would somewhat help to balance the "anti-mage" B&M'ing.

[Rex]

Well, I leave that to you guys. Made the armor variations just to show how to obtain that higher SR and have it drop. Just remember that if you want SR 18, the penalty has to hurt and make sense. The lowered skills/stat/whatever shouldn't be things you'd never miss, but things that you would need somewhat. Remember you can't have it all.

If you want to experiment and later submit it to the Item Request Thread so that the armors might be changed, open up your toolsets and remember to load the RL hakpacks in order so that the pricing system works.

Why not?  The other 3/4's of the classes get it.

On a side note, there is always the option of a DM stepping up and dropping some loot to.  I suppose it really is no small wonder though that the Witch Hunter Armors end up as junk loot since they are completely ineffective against anything that said people would be hunting once that Witch is past 3rd level.  The problem isn't coming in under the cap of value, it's the fact that the loot system won't DROP the item because it's to busy regurgitating Horribly Dull Blades and Boots of Whatever.  System needs a tweaking.  I for one, am tired of walking around with PILES of 4th level Paladin Spell Scrolls, Arcane Caster Scrolls of 6th level or higher, Cleric Scrolls of 6th level or higher, Cleric Items, Paladin Items, THIEF items, but stuff usable for a Fighter?

*Unveils his new Store Selling Fell Boots, Wrist Guards, and an entire Wing devoted to Falkovnian Talon helms.*

Considering the number of Static Spell Chucking Monsters out there now, COMBINED with the number of Need +2 or better to Hit DR Monsters and Encounters, Things that Have MORE AB, then your total AC possible with ANY combination of available Heavy Armor and Tower Shield, that are CASUAL encounters hanging out with things that will fireball you to death, a Few things to spread the love around should not be to much to ask for. 8K is to low of a ceiling considering the elements within the current environment.

Eh. 36 SR would make you completely immune to all but the most powerful casters. Considering how common the SR objects are to come by, that might be a little bit overkill.

Maybe we should just throw out the money limit as far as SR goes. Give some more special armors SRs of 20-24, and make them only uber drops.

Considering How Common CASTERS are, I don't see the issue.  The Armor, doesn't show up that often and I have yet to see WHERE it drops or if it drops in something heavier then banded mail.  The Amulets, I might find 1, every 2 months or so.

~Rex

Man, this stuff drops ALL the time. It's not uncommon. I find one every couple of days.

You can not measure the Availability of Items and Items dropped, as a balanced system, based on the observations and results of Players dedicated to Grinding and Raping XP and Loot (Not my terms btw), Using Builds Designed Just for that Purpose.  There is no Control in that exercise to base a valid observation off of, especially when structured in a viewpoint of a balanced field of play, and a static environment.  It's skewed.  As for the Low Magic setting excuse.  Once Again I state that Low availability of Magic should also equate to a low number of MAGIC USERS.  However in the name of PC, we don't have that, nor do we impose environmental restrictions such as components on those PC's as they run amok willy nilly leaving a wake of devastated Lootless dungeons behind them.

I've never understood why in the name of Low Magic, that the Main perpetrators of it are supported with every means and those that should be in the fore front of such a setting are denied even the basic means to get by.  GOOD, spell resistant armors and such, Which come from the Setting as a Whole and from an area of the setting, that specializes in such things, should be set to a different scale.

~Rex

[Gonny]

24 Sr is a huge amount of Sr a level 14 caster w/o feats would have 50% of missing the spell. Sr is very powerfull.
Not to mention that any boss you find around (except demonologists) have low caster level, and SR 24 would make you totally inmune to all of them.
Damn, even with the lesser arcane grounding staff ((woah, long name, was it right?)) sr 18, i  block most of the spells casted by creatures.

Sr 20 sounds fair-ish.

Let's drop there some negative aspects that could make sense:

* -2 Dex. Is a very uncomfortable armor, which is made to resist spells, that's why it's form it's odd and you can't move as you'd expect.
* Weight bonus + "x"%. As said before is a tough armor made with heavy materials.
* -25% vulnerability to fire/electric/acid/cold. Cold would make sense. It's a cold armor, those metals the armors are made of, get quickly cold.
* -5 Tumble. Same as dex.
* -2 Con. The armor works with the vital strengh of the guy using it. It needs of your Vital force to work.


Those are a few things that could match with it.


In any case, yes, witch-hunter armors do need a change.

[kenpen]

"You can not measure the Availability of Items and Items dropped, as a balanced system, based on the observations and results of Players dedicated to Grinding and Raping XP and Loot."

Uh, sure you can. Because all the crap we find ends up at Murnu's, so everyone else is going to have the exact same access to it. It's not like people sit around holding all this junk. If you're not finding this stuff, it's because you're not checking often enough or other people are buying it up.

[Helaman]

24 Sr is a huge amount of Sr a level 14 caster w/o feats would have 50% of missing the spell. Sr is very powerfull.
Not to mention that any boss you find around (except demonologists) have low caster level, and SR 24 would make you totally inmune to all of them.
Damn, even with the lesser arcane grounding staff ((woah, long name, was it right?)) sr 18, i  block most of the spells casted by creatures.

Sr 20 sounds fair-ish.

Let's drop there some negative aspects that could make sense:

* -2 Dex. Is a very uncomfortable armor, which is made to resist spells, that's why it's form it's odd and you can't move as you'd expect.
* Weight bonus + "x"%. As said before is a tough armor made with heavy materials.
* -25% vulnerability to fire/electric/acid/cold. Cold would make sense. It's a cold armor, those metals the armors are made of, get quickly cold.
* -5 Tumble. Same as dex.
* -2 Con. The armor works with the vital strengh of the guy using it. It needs of your Vital force to work.


Those are a few things that could match with it.


In any case, yes, witch-hunter armors do need a change.

Screw dropping the Con... -5 or -10 to UMD...

That would hurt at least 2 of my fighter characters...

Also increase spell casting failure +50%

Voila!

[Rex]

24 Sr is a huge amount of Sr a level 14 caster w/o feats would have 50% of missing the spell. Sr is very powerfull.
Not to mention that any boss you find around (except demonologists) have low caster level, and SR 24 would make you totally inmune to all of them.
Damn, even with the lesser arcane grounding staff ((woah, long name, was it right?)) sr 18, i  block most of the spells casted by creatures.

Sr 20 sounds fair-ish.

Let's drop there some negative aspects that could make sense:

* -2 Dex. Is a very uncomfortable armor, which is made to resist spells, that's why it's form it's odd and you can't move as you'd expect.
* Weight bonus + "x"%. As said before is a tough armor made with heavy materials.
* -25% vulnerability to fire/electric/acid/cold. Cold would make sense. It's a cold armor, those metals the armors are made of, get quickly cold.
* -5 Tumble. Same as dex.
* -2 Con. The armor works with the vital strengh of the guy using it. It needs of your Vital force to work.


Those are a few things that could match with it.


In any case, yes, witch-hunter armors do need a change.

Screw dropping the Con... -5 or -10 to UMD...

That would hurt at least 2 of my fighter characters...

Also increase spell casting failure +50%

Voila!

WHAT!?  How dare you come up with Weaknesses that would Shaft Spell Casters or UMD folks........That goes completely against the that status Quo of things you know.

That's actually a pretty functional set up from the looks of it going to have to plug it into the tool set to see how it comes out.  Glad someone else brought that up other then me.    Makes up for those Mormons Knocking on my door this morning at 8am.   

~Rex 

[Helaman]

Go Elders Go... It was a fun 2 years, but I was happy to get on with my life afterwards - particulary the marriage part 

I've had a few laughs at my fellow missionaries expense - particulary because I am Australian and just enjoy a good laugh and a practical joke. One of my neighbours answered the door in a towel after just getting out of the shower, and told the Elders, he was planning some 'Adult activities' and asked would they care to join... He said they backed off so fast they nearly broke a speed record.

Back on topic so Delph doesnt come after me with a big stick...

Tumbling, UMD and Spell failure all make legitimate negatives that don't screw the fighter over for just being a fighter - case in point. Falkonvian Bracers... they come with an inbuilt Spell -50% to make up for their other bonuses.

[Inquizitor]

Doesnt SR also block benificial spells?

[Helaman]

Nah - its an engine thing. Gotta love Bioware.

[Rex]

I wonder if it's possible to set it up so that it DOES block beneficial spells.  That would be interesting.

~Rex

[kenpen]

People would just pull it on and off. :-P

[Delphinidae]

I wonder if it's possible to set it up so that it DOES block beneficial spells.  That would be interesting.

~Rex

It isn't that useful, since:

A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).

d20 SRD

SR wouldn't block a beneficial spell unless you had some reason to not lower your SR. Also, like Ken said, they'd put on and off the item if they couldn't.

[Nevoh]

I think we should make all of the Witch-hunters clerics.

32 SR at level 20. 

[Rex]

I wonder if it's possible to set it up so that it DOES block beneficial spells.  That would be interesting.

~Rex

It isn't that useful, since:

A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).

d20 SRD

SR wouldn't block a beneficial spell unless you had some reason to not lower your SR. Also, like Ken said, they'd put on and off the item if they couldn't.

yeah, that applies to creatures with Natural Spell Resistance.  Not so much to the Item wearing folk.  As far as CHANGING armor or what not, that is EASILY handled by applying a Time for Change function for armors, based on the type of Armor, and assigning Negatives per the book, based upon trying to Rush putting your Armor on.

That function btw also cuts down on those people that like to Flash change, their Armor, into Clothes that LOOK like their Armor, Cast their Spells, then Flash back to Real Armor again.
 

~Rex