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Author Topic: Suggestion - xp update message  (Read 3310 times)

Nefensis

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Suggestion - xp update message
« on: October 19, 2008, 03:25:22 PM »
When the XP curve was changed, the so call Blind Drive message because more and more frequent, i cant remember last time i was "off my cap. It gets pretty discouraging and i know quite a few people that simply wont play when they are capped, even the "proverbial wall" comes around far too often just for a few days of roleplay and dungeon crawling.

Perhaps the wording of the messages could be updated to fit the new XP curve so it's not so discouraging and analytic of the cap itself.

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Ric

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2008, 06:47:58 PM »
There's two ideas I've had for the longest time about the cap-system:

1.  Give only 2 messages (Cap or Uncapped) instead of 4 messages (lazy, mist, blind drive, proverbail wall).

Or

2.  Completely remove the Cap message, that way no one knows whether or not they're capped.  I personally like this one, but the only problem is that it'll be hard to explain this to players that don't understand the cap-system, therefore the players that don't know about the 'cap' who think they can power-game themselves to max-level won't realize that they're probably trapped in a proverbial wall.  The plus side of this, though, is that the people who are familiar with the cap-system won't be able to make excuses about being too capped to RP or go adventuring.  To me, the cap has always served as a sort of "You can stop, but you don't have to" message.

I'm interested in what other people think.

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2008, 07:36:19 PM »
2.  Completely remove the Cap message, that way no one knows whether or not they're capped.  I personally like this one, but the only problem is that it'll be hard to explain this to players that don't understand the cap-system, therefore the players that don't know about the 'cap' who think they can power-game themselves to max-level won't realize that they're probably trapped in a proverbial wall.  The plus side of this, though, is that the people who are familiar with the cap-system won't be able to make excuses about being too capped to RP or go adventuring.  To me, the cap has always served as a sort of "You can stop, but you don't have to" message.

I'm interested in what other people think.

You beat me to it. This sounds like an outstanding idea.

Metal_ash

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2008, 01:26:00 AM »
sure i look to the cap messedge, but then again i have never botherd to much about it and it for sure have never stopped me from playing that char so i really don't bother about it.

Helaman

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2008, 02:41:04 AM »
It made me shelf my caliban for 2 weeks.. no idea how it happened but I got capped sooooo hard that my 5th level character was hard and then soft capped for 2 whole weeks

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engelfire

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2008, 05:06:10 AM »
i think that removing the cap message is bad idea. people wouldnt be able to tell are they capped or not, and it would really prevent any leveling

becouse, you never know your situation, so you just adventure and adventure, unknowingly just pushing the cap further. just keep the message so that everyone can keep track on their situation

if one logs out or shelfs a character becouse of that, maybe that one should ponder why they play here in the first place. i know the cap is annoying and takes long to return to normal, but thats just the system we have to live with, it is a freaking pain in the ass at higher levels
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 05:09:10 AM by engelfire »
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Knas

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2008, 07:17:18 AM »
It says you should slow down, it doesn't say stop completely. If gaining a bit less exp for a few days makes you unwilling to even touch your character then I'd say it's your own loss.

Rex

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2008, 09:02:13 AM »
Lower the Rate of XP.  Remove DM awarded XP from the Cap System.  Problem Solved.

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Ciaran999

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2008, 09:17:56 AM »
Not sure I agree with removing the message altogether. I personaly haven't received it yet, but as I just recently attained level 10 I'm sure I might start seeing it.

While I understand the desire to deter people from shelving a character when they hit the cap as well as deter them from playing their character differently because of the cap, I think a lack of communication about where one's character stands in regards to receiving XP is ultimately more frustrating and more likely to create annoyance and misunderstandings.

I just find that removing tools for communication in the hopes that it will cause people to behave differently when they don't know something often don't work as expected and just engenders more aggravation. I think it would be better to raise awareness and understanding of the cap as well as perhaps re-wording the message if necessary.

It's going to happen, regardless of anything that is done, that people are going to use an OOC considersation such as being at a cap to influence IC decisions, just as people make up IC reasons to go into a dungeon that they are sure will give them enough XP to level them when they get close to level ("New Paths of Enlightenment" message, which I personally find to be okay in most cases, just because levelling up isn't one's prime motivation for playing doesn't mean one shouldn't do things to push them up a level when appropriate). Shelving a character I think is unnecessary and while I can understand the frustration that would lead one to do that, perhaps one in that situation could challenge themselves to change their perspective on things. For people whose primary motivation for playing is to advance in levels, I think they're destined to be frustrated in a PW such as ours where the reasons for playing are far deeper than merely advancing to the next level.

Personally, I wouldn't totally cease playing Damiana for a length of time if she hit a cap because I play for the immersion, story and RP and take a lot of enjoyment from that, regardless of if she's advancing or not. Now, that said I do have an alt and in all honesty I'd probably give that alt preference unless there was some plot or other IC reasons for Damiana to be present. As it stands currently I don't have Bastian involved in too much as he's still a new character whereas Damiana is quite busy and involved in a few plots. If both were equally vested in plots and situations and one was capped while the other was not...it'd come down to which plot I wanted to be a part of at that time.  ;) It also comes down to who I feel like playing upon logging in.


That's my take on it, not saying it's right, wrong or that anybody else should have the same view. :twocents:



« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 09:34:30 AM by Ciaran999 »
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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2008, 09:28:37 AM »
I'd rather see the Dev team working on other things.  If a player doesn't play a character because of a message of a "proverbial wall," then that is their own doing.  Can't say I allow any message to influence my decisions. 

Fallen

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2008, 08:52:51 PM »
I'd rather see the Dev team working on other things.  If a player doesn't play a character because of a message of a "proverbial wall," then that is their own doing.  Can't say I allow any message to influence my decisions. 

What he said.  :thumbup:

Helaman

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2008, 09:03:53 PM »
I differ... I've played through caps with some characters and shelved others... high level PCs generally dont get shelved. They level slowly anyways so the cap means bupkis.

However the rewards of risk and play are XP, Loot and the joy of RP... but with a PC who hit 5th, that profit/loss for risk ratio seemed to high on the risk. IC'lly we are told "we feel we need to slow down etc" so there is a valid IG and IC reason for Tolg to sit around the drain for a few weeks, thinking and watching.

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Rex

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2008, 09:04:47 AM »
Certain Days, and Certain Times, I play Certain PC's.  I don't really give a crap about the messages personally, though to be honest, I don't run into even the First warning that often.

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ThAnswr

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2008, 09:34:26 AM »
Calor is living proof you can live on "neglected paths" and still level up.  And end up with a sizable bank account too.   :lol:
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fulkren

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2008, 11:23:20 AM »
my character Varmathus is at "proverbial wall" and he just made level 6. but then the only message i really look for is "new dawns of enlightenment" the  rest really doesn't bother me :)

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2008, 12:38:22 PM »
but then the only message i really look for is "new dawns of enlightenment" the  rest really doesn't bother me :)

same  :lol:

Rex

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2008, 01:19:34 PM »
New Dawns is a tease.  Wish it didn't show up at all.  Promotes insane grinding.

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2008, 01:25:17 PM »
New Dawns is a tease.  Wish it didn't show up at all.  Promotes insane grinding.

~Rex



Seconded. Whenever that Succubus comes up on my rest message I chase the Dragon (XP Heroin) like a whore jonezing like Robert Downey Jr.

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2008, 02:58:06 PM »
New Dawns is a tease.  Wish it didn't show up at all.  Promotes insane grinding.

~Rex


agreed there rex all i want to hear is that ding! when i get it :P

Inquizitor

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2008, 07:59:38 PM »
I would like a system wherein everytime you rest you still get the messages but your XP will update itself to whatever it is you really have.  That way it might not be so frustrating to see some of these wall, and blind drive messages if you can at least go in and look to see that "yeah I'm still making a little progress."

I'm not entirely sure why it was decided to hide this information from us to begin with.  At least I've never been given a reason I agree with.  If I'm close to a level I might hang around and do some more in the server Either through RP or running to a dungeon or a combination thereof.  To me that wouldn't be a bad thing.
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Ric

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2008, 08:25:53 PM »
What I like about the hide-system is that it shifts the common motivation most players have when they play NWN servers.  The origin before the shift being the constant need to check your character sheet and note how many more goblins or orcs you have to slaughter until you've leveled.

Instead, what we get is an unknown number, which leaves players going "I think I need to complete this dungeon to level" instead of "I need to kill like 10 more juju zombies".  The added RP-EXP also adds to this, which is a nice little pat.

Again though, while I approve of the hide-exp system, the cap-system is a turnoff to people.  At least, that's what people force themselves to believe.  I've had dozens of players in the past 2-3 years say "This cap stuff sucks, I don't want to even play while I'm capped", and I've had to tell them hundreds of times that the cap does not really affect their EXP.  The Cap-system, in my opinion, has always been one of those things where once you figure it out, it's no problem, but if you never figure it out, you're left iwth a sour taste in your mouth.

The bottom line for people who don't get the cap is:  Stop worrying about being capped and play.  Forcing yourself to not play for a week becuase you're capped isn't going to improve your gameplay.  It'll actually just turn you into one of those level 15+ characters who will never develop a good story to tell other people.  I could make novels out of the 3 characters I managed to raise to level 15 and beyond (and I probably should, since I'm a writer); I didn't get the epic stories by avoiding gameplay from cap.  I managed to progress just like anyone else did.  Here's a tip:  From level 11 to 17, James was in "Proverbial Wall", but still leveled when the times came.

Inquizitor

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Re: Suggestion - xp update message
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2008, 08:37:16 PM »
I'm not proposing a system where we unhide the numbers.  All I'm suggestion is we update teh numbers when we rest.  The numbers are checked anyway.  We know this because we get the happyfun message everytime we rest.   I'm just suggesting a compromise.   You won't know how many more juju Zombies you need to kill.  You will just know you are pretyty close and could problably run another dungeon.  Yes if I had like 2 xp to go for a level I might be able to pair it down to go hitting a rat but why would that be so bad?  I go down and deal with a rat and level real quick.  Noone was hurt by this.  The player got his level and is likely happy and everyone moves on.  Heck this even puts the player back out into the world.  Just because he is going out to deal with something small doesnt mean something big can't be somewhere nearby. 

Perhaps you could even restrict the update for when you are resting in a safe zone that way you can't just rest to get a quick update down in a dungeon or something.  Although That would only really be viable when you are lower in level and frankly you get a decent amount of feedback at the lower levels you wouldn't really need to worry about how often they are resting to update their sheets.   It's only around level 6 or so that the messages start to get spread out and you start to lose a feel for your progress.   All you start getting is the same precentage message while being told you are earning too much XP in a short amount of time.  It lacks feel and it can seem like your spinning your wheels.  Even so I still think I prefer the idea of restricting the update idea to a safe rest area.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 08:40:37 PM by Inquizitor »
Current Characters:
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