Is the issue ninja-looting or the balance of ninja-looting?
Balance. I think it would be a shame to place strict rules on acts like ninja looting. Ninja looting will always happen; it's only disappointing because of how easy it is to pull off.
What I think would be logical is that it'd take a high level rogue to ninjaloot a high level dungeon, is that the case?
That is not the case, in my opinion. A mid to high level rogue (10-15), as already pointed out, can loot the highest level of dungeons. A level 20 fighter, however, no matter how good his gear is, most likely cannot solo the demonologists and reach the end without getting their ass handed to them. If they
did manage to reach the end, it would either take around 50 healing potions or so many bandages and rests that the dungeon would take forever... And even if this solo fighter did reach the end, they still cannot open the chests and get the loot. I understand the need for partying, and with the most recent changes to the server I don't take my character on solo ventures anymore because it's not worth it, yet still somehow a rogue can spend 30 minutes in a dungeon, assuming that's how long it takes to walk across the dungeon in stealth mode, and walk away with all of the marbles.
Keep in mind that when I have soloed places with my fighter, I often spend 2-3 hours doing only part of a dungeon, because it's so difficult. I usually walk out of that place moderately rewarded but damned exhausted (at least I used to feel moderately rewarded back when I could bash chests open). I do not see the same level of challenge to successfully complete this task with a rogue. Walk in, open, walk out. Fast, easy (all the player is relying on is the build, not on any serious amount of character control), and yet more rewarding than the poor fighter.
I do not mind the changes that prevent me from soloing, because I have gotten more interaction with other players and characters because of it. I wish the same went for rogues, so that they are not able to do a complete loot on their own without massive amounts of trouble.
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I would like to restate one of my ideas, and then introduce a few others:
Boss ChestsI think boss loot should progress separately from the rest of the loot in the dungeon. Even with constant grinding and ninja looting, once the dungeon hit a level high enough to produce a boss monster, anyone with enough brawn to take him down would still be able to be rewarded.
Minibosses?I think it would be nice if a few minibosses were also set up in the same way, also having their own chests. This would allow small parties of a moderate level with no lockpickers present to hit up some dungeons and walk away feeling accomplished. Minibosses, of course, would not make sense for every dungeon, but would make sense for a few, I feel. The lich tower already has minibosses set up, but they are easier than the base monsters in the place and their keys don't work.
Looting DifficultyThere are some areas, such as the shadow cave, that can be ninja looted without even needing a rogue! I hope there are measures that can be taken to help ensure that this isn't possible.
There was one instance where my small rogueless party of moderate level characters and my high level fighter got delayed and ended up not being able to have enough time to clear the dungeon before I had to log off. One of the players had died because they had looked at one of the treasure piles while getting mobbed by shadow spiders, and told me that there was a magical shield and a nice pair of boots there. So I guzzled an invisibility potion and a potion of cowardice, and I was able to get the treasure without any trouble. I could have hit the whole place, and the uber monsters I don't have a chance at being able to kill wouldn't have been able to stop me from doing it, all because the loot is on skeletons. So... even a fighter and a potion of cowardice can perform ninja looting.
I would bet, and could possibly prove if someone gave me access to a character with a high enough lockpick skill to pull it off, that I could loot the last four demonologist chests without using stealth at all. They take a lot of time perparing before they fight, and in that time a player could open a chest, swipe the treasure, and haul ass back out of the area until the demonologists reset all of their spells, at which point you could go back and do it again... it would take a bit of time to do this, but it wouldn't even require the ability to hide.
Finally, an example of a reasonable change specific to the demonologist temple:
- Key lock two out of the four chests.
- Separate the loot progression of the key locked chests and the other two.
- As Delphinidae said, add bats to the area. Bats would act as an obstacle to the rogue and have to be dealt with before the rogue could continue, helping to balance out the risk and the reward.
I think those specific suggestions for the demonologist temple would satisfy both parties. Ninja looting would still be something that could be accomplished, yet not something that would ruin the dungeon for another party. It does not prefer one side over the other, and still manages to give the greatest rewards to those who go in with diverse parties.