Monstrous PCs - Werecreatures - Suggestion if at all possible

[Lyrithean]

Alot of werecreature players worry about being seen in their other forms due to the metagaming factor, at least until they're powerful enough to massacre the whole outskirts by themselves.

My question and suggestion is this. Is it possible to make the wereshapes and animal shapes as summonable creatures, make the player in question capable of possessing said forms and have their character model limboed? All wrapped up in the wereform widgets?

This would distinctly solve the meta-gaming issue if this is even possible, as the characters model isn't being changed anymore but rather they are now possessing a creature which would only have the name of the creature model

[failed.bard]

It would essentially be adding a familiar option to the widget.  The problem becomes if you're killed in that form, what then?

[JayeAeotiv]

Familiars already damage you when you die, they could damage you for more?

I don't know if this is the correct solution, but I do agreee with the idea.  It'd be nice if a werewolf's name was just "werewolf"

[failed.bard]

The drawback to a monstrous weres name being just the type, is that if you don't know that they're a PC, you would probably kill them on sight.

[Ryltar/ Robert Archer]

The drawback to a monstrous weres name being just the type, is that if you don't know that they're a PC, you would probably kill them on sight.

So? when someone apps for a monster app they do so knowing that perma is a likely option and added to that would cut down on the metaing i see of those good folks hiding in the ladies or temple going they cant do nothing but yet when you see big mujo werewolf lore or werewolf pack out there they go out there and pwn them yet one single pc werecreature shows up and bam they cant do a thing

[EO]

I've had maybe one or two small metagaming issues when I played my wererat and both were solved quickly. I don't think this fear of metagaming is real.

The issue is more with the way people respond to monstrous characters with straight up PvP in the intention of "winning" a scene. That's what scares lower level monsters more, the chance of dying and being exposed.

[Delphinidae]

I have to agree with EO. I only had one metagaming issue with Claire and it was quickly solved.

The problem is the PvP eagerness. Many times I was emoting or making a scene only to be rushed in the middle of an emote by another player. Flatfooted, prone... well, it sucks to be in the middle of something and be rushed at. It ruins the whole mood for the victim and attacker.

Sometimes I never understood what was going through people's head. You see that the wererat is standing still, the victim is also standing standing still for some time (or worse, you're seeing both use rolls) and people rush the monster? It's one of the mayor put-offs for a monster. Trying to create a scene and have people just ignore it or attack you in the middle of the rolls.

Not that all experiences were like this, mind you. I did have several players rushing to the scene to come to the rescue (or even the victim) emote to me: "after this next emote, I'm charging" or I'd do the same if I was going PvP with the victim after doing some mood setting and rolls. It was probably one of the best courtesies you could do.

[tzaeru]

I've had maybe one or two small metagaming issues when I played my wererat and both were solved quickly. I don't think this fear of metagaming is real.

The issue is more with the way people respond to monstrous characters with straight up PvP in the intention of "winning" a scene. That's what scares lower level monsters more, the chance of dying and being exposed.

My primary concern and why I don't even bother to log in when most of the players are near-epic chars - The average level on server is way past 10 by now. No idea how, powergamers all around. 

[DM Shadowspawn]

A lot of the very high lvl chars will RP with you, though there seems a glut of chars in the 10 to 15 lvl range whom came about in a drought of evil PC's with templates and do not understand the ramifications of PvP'ing a monster PC to death is extremely likely to mean perma of the PC, where as for everyone else it likely doesn't. The Caliban and Undead need to take back the night, and to do so may mean groups working together to do so. IMHO there are to many good PC's running around dominating things.

[Tarth]

PVP eagerness is the biggest problem as stated...

the thing that annoys me the greatest and I'll say it again and again

when I leave some one or a group of some ones at near death, I don't expect them simply walk into the church and walk back out..
and just get more buddies, I usually expect them to head inside and RP the whole 'night' thing.
as technicly very few good doers even have the will save to represent doing that. (minus the paladins, I always expect paladins to come back out if others are out there)

sadly I'm usually forced to kill a few people cause they just willn't get it...

on the plus side most people tend to start understanding how it works after the first time.

[Aldabreck Stone Helm]

I myself have been close to pvping a monster character.  I believe it was more from lack of understanding, and knowledge of dealing with that type of encounter that I just attacked the character and did not rp the scene out.I do not know how to educate others as to how to rp these encounters.But i believe some thing should be done, because there is a sever rule about affecting the role playing of others.I believe that pvping their character would be in a since a violation of the rule.

[engelfire]

i will always rp with monster characters IF they rp with me too. even if its usually ends up badly for my character its always so much fun

claire and julia for example, two excellent wererats. surely there were others too but i never encountered them


what i dont understand either is why people rush to kill, is it really so bad and hard to just take a moment to figure out the scene, it takes about two seconds to determine is the monster character out to kill you in straight pvp or do they wish to rp. too many people rush to kill the moment they see red upon pressing tab.

same for some dm events too, i always expect the dm controlled baddies to emote but then theres always someone in the group that sees red and goes to for the kill


and i agree, too many near epic characters (mine included). no one really has any reason to fear the monster pc's when they can just bitchslap them around as they please, i mean with vali i could have easily just destroy Claire, he could have killed Negnar in so many ways that its silly, geehs even killled Morag once and almost twice

but despite that, i will always rp with monster pc's if they so wish, but when entering the realm of pvp, there wont be any holding back since monster pc is just a monster among others in the eyes of non-monster pc

[DM Shadowspawn]

Backing away to break the fight, and allowing them to run away.

[mayvind]

and i agree, too many near epic characters (mine included). no one really has any reason to fear the monster pc's when they can just bitchslap them around as they please, i mean with vali i could have easily just destroy Claire, he could have killed Negnar in so many ways that its silly, geehs even killled Morag once and almost twice

You only manage to do that because i wasnt expect a fight, you contradicted yourself in action because you saw me, you immidiatly used timestop scroll and spam Isaac magic missles but it is cool i guess i have that effect on people

No body beat Morag (large ego  ) ... well except a DM with epic mages ....infinite of em !!

[engelfire]

offtopic:

 vali has very good ic reason to kill morag whenever possible. she is free game but sadly she seems to be guarded by dm's..... aka darkpowers

[Bad_Bud]

PVP eagerness is the biggest problem as stated...

the thing that annoys me the greatest and I'll say it again and again

when I leave some one or a group of some ones at near death, I don't expect them simply walk into the church and walk back out..

I have to disagree with the distaste around this.  How is this different from how the were PC's will run off when near death to regenerate only to come back?

Using your situation only as an example for my point; you got the entire outskirts stirred up when you got killed, it was somewhat careless to not see the inevitability that if you keep pushing at it, such as a band of crooks robbing the same convenience store because it was successful the first time, people are going to be prepared for your return and will be ready to pull a fast one on you.

My personal opinion, monstrous PC's shouldn't necessarily feel they're the behind the scenes causers of the horror on this server.  The fear of being discovered or being permanently destroyed applies horror just as well to the monstrous PC's as being eaten by one plays the role of horror for the regular PC's.

I don't want to permanently kill anyone's character (and if I succeed in pvp killing a monstrous PC I'll try everything I can to have it not happen), but it should be in the back of your mind, all of you with monstrous PC's, that if you come stomping in the outskirts and any kind of PVP breaks out that I might just be there, fully buffed and waiting to tear you to pieces.

[mayvind]

offtopic:

 vali has very good ic reason to kill morag whenever possible. she is free game but sadly she seems to be guarded by dm's..... aka darkpowers

Was it the same DM that help you summon an epic lich which DM control and almost killed Morag in the outskirt? must have been tough love ...
and yes Morag is free game for everyone ! but i was just quote yours post,

i will always rp with monster characters IF they rp with me too. even if its usually ends up badly for my character its always so much fun

claire and julia for example, two excellent wererats. surely there were others too but i never encountered them


what i dont understand either is why people rush to kill, is it really so bad and hard to just take a moment to figure out the scene, it takes about two seconds to determine is the monster character out to kill you in straight pvp or do they wish to rp. too many people rush to kill the moment they see red upon pressing tab.

same for some dm events too, i always expect the dm controlled baddies to emote but then theres always someone in the group that sees red and goes to for the kill


and i agree, too many near epic characters (mine included). no one really has any reason to fear the monster pc's when they can just bitchslap them around as they please, i mean with vali i could have easily just destroy Claire, he could have killed Negnar in so many ways that its silly, geehs even killled Morag once and almost twice

but despite that, i will always rp with monster pc's if they so wish, but when entering the realm of pvp, there wont be any holding back since monster pc is just a monster among others in the eyes of non-monster pc

and .... it doesnt fit what happend, because i was ready to RP, i wasnt buffed, but i was in timestatis at the moment while got barrage with issaac missiles and not a single RP words or emote.  

Also happend long time ago with Sharian inspite that no one seen her face, and her bounty  removed due to fake death, lomion busted the door in lady rest inn cast wailed banshee on her without so much a word haul her to citadel, of course since her name is not on the list she got rejected, you haul her back again and raise her pat on her shoulder then walk away. I was laughing like hell dont know if i should hunt and kill you down or just let it go... some one eventuary got you though and you were so angry with it. Because they used the same tactic as you.

But i understand that and i understand many others that saw my chars and goes into buff mode, it is natural to go into defensive and the best defense is offen first offence, who throw in the first dice usually win. And i blame no one on my lost, usually blame myself for be stupid or too trustful. When i sign and play as monster class i already know what instore for me. I can say that i been the longest active monster class on this server and i have seen it all. Good RP, bad RP, PvP feast ... fun moment, not so fun moment.

Be a monster class is tough, but i wont have it other way because i love it this way. It is so much fun to watch those adventure hunting me down i feel important and like i contribute some fun into the community as well or i hope so.

[Fungal Artillery]

I've seen many monster PCs play their part extremely well. Those folks add alot to the atmosphere and the world. The wererat Claire for example played her part as a scary beast very belieavably and while her char was merciless IC, she would always be friendly OOC. These encounters would be fun even when your character was fighting a losing battle.

Then there are those monster PCs that do it for the pvp, which is wrong considering it's a RP server we are playing on. Merely seeing these Monster PCs make the others go in to PvP mode simply because they assume (and with reason) that if they do not kill the monster first, they will be pwned in turn in a similar way. These pvp bulldozing bullies aren't fun, but annoying to the majority of the player base. They set the player base on their toes and inspire metagame to either avoid or destroy these monster PCs.

This world shouldn't be about pwning anyone, winning and dominating whatever means necessary, but contributing good RP IC and good sportsmanship OOC to make the experience fun for -everyone- .

There is plenty of ways of playing a brutal chaotic evil villain without being a pvp bully. The villain is the one who can contribute the most to RP.

Of course there are some on the goodies' side, too. The anti-fun villains tend to be more visible, though.

Off topic or not. Just my 

[engelfire]

nd .... it doesnt fit what happend, because i was ready to RP, i wasnt buffed, but i was in timestatis at the moment while got barrage with issaac missiles and not a single RP words or emote.  Cool

well for my defence he was 5 minutes earlier instructed to destroy intruders, then suddenly in popped morag, so i was like "shit shit what a good chance ! shes here to loot anyway ill kill her !" and not to mention other orders to kill morag so... well... and for knowing how dangerous morag is every second is precious. granted that got lom too as you said


but ittle did i know.. and paid for it yup


and that Tavern episode.. its so long i dont remember did sharian somehow act before that or anything. but if you plan to make fake death and all i would assume you would start a new life elsewhere basicly and stop repeating your old patterns. perhaps lom simply found out that it was really sharian but didnt know of the bounty being dropped *shrugs* cant really remember. it could have been also that i had no idea of any changes in sharian, what you dont know you dont understand to ask either. was prolly thinkin that she has some cojones to walk around that freely

[Helaman]

Well said - Claire was cool and thought there was an Occassion when Yoshinaka landed rolling crits on her, he backed off and the battles were then via emote... and continued with John Umpton and a stack of others when she broke into the ladies rest... the ENTIRE combat was emoted... wonderful.

The fact that the player was so nice about eating you OoC, was the cherry on top.

Yves and Morag have had Yoshinaka on the ropes a few times (one day soon they'll likely finish the Job) but behind it, OoC? Mayvind has been totally cool.

I've accounted for 2-3 beastie permadeaths - the Rat Queen (with help but I was the sod that hauled her in) and her consort (burned him to throw the remains in the sewer - allowing for a res... but a DM misunderstood and burned him to nothing ressurectable - others killed, I as the guard decided to Burn). With the Rat queen I made no secret of her location - was sort of hoping word would get back allowing for a prision break - I am a little sorry it didnt go down that way. Truth be told I wish the monsters HAD of run... and I am no Angel - I ran back in for a heal at least once... then again both those damn rats went into hiding and were fully regened by the time I came out again or ripped on Otto.

I also helped stake one of the Vamps - that was a big combined effort - if it wasnt for the guy being knocked into what can only be hoped was running "water" in the sewers we were able to stake his nightstalking arse.

Jeffron was nearly my fourth... he was trying to use Yoshinaka to emote to the other ppl in the Sanctuary - which I did... but all the emotes SCREAMED undead. The other players (low to mid) left to go to the beetles and I came out of that church and was standing 3 feet from the poor guy - who had NO clue how close he was to the Dawn or that his audience had left. It was OoC courtesy that held my hand - I hate being called a metagamer or being accused of taking unfair advantage. I followed him until he left the outskirts area to log off a minute or two later.

If I have one thing to say to the Monsters? Know when to hold em', know when to fold em', know when to walk away and know when to run.

Just about EVERY beastie I saw or heard about getting killed over played their hand when people started getting serious when they should have headed for the hills to lick their wounds, heal up and plot revenge. Only the toughest of villians can survive their own bad judgement - there is no margin for error with the newer weaker monsters.

[DM Shadowspawn]

How is this different from how the were PC's will run off when near death to regenerate only to come back?

Monser PC's are almost guaranteed to be perma'd once they fall. PC's are almost guaranteed to not. Note exceptions for RP purposes but speaking specifically about attacks on Outskirts here.

[Bad_Bud]

How is this different from how the were PC's will run off when near death to regenerate only to come back?

Monser PC's are almost guaranteed to be perma'd once they fall. PC's are almost guaranteed to not. Note exceptions for RP purposes but speaking specifically about attacks on Outskirts here.

Doesn't that make it seem even... dumber that they come back after getting waxed?

Edit: They know what they signed up for when they became a monster, and I see no difference in running away to regenerate and running into a temple to heal up.  I don't think it's a logical complaint.  It was a complaint that would make people feel guilty knowing they had done it and it isn't proper form when I find nothing wrong with it for the reasons I have mentioned.

[Delphinidae]

In the case of werebeasts, afflicted ones at that (we don't have any natural werebeasts), you really don't have a choice. The bloodlust drives you wild. Until you get a meal (humanoid) you will not stop the craving and have this need to eat until dawn. RPwise you have to keep going, although if Claire ever got to badly wounded/near death, she would hunt elsewhere, but most of her Outskirts attacks was to entertain players. All of them gather there.

The temple thing is annoying because monsters will rarely "kill" your PC. I RPed eating them and then I'd inform the player that I was going to slap them around to badly injured so he could get back and get healed. When people PvP on you, you can't hold back because rarely the other person will let you go. Most of the time, you don't even attack them, just snarl and chase them indoors. Monsters let them open the doors and get in (which are time consuming and its when people are ripe for an easy attack). Which is why the temple thing is annoying. The monster purposely lets the char go alive only to have him come back. Eventually the monster will back off not only because it can't win, but because it feels like you're playing Super Mario Bros. It gets dull after so many times.

[DM Shadowspawn]

In the case of werebeasts, afflicted ones at that (we don't have any natural werebeasts), you really don't have a choice. The bloodlust drives you wild. Until you get a meal (humanoid) you will not stop the craving and have this need to eat until dawn. RPwise you have to keep going, although if Claire ever got to badly wounded/near death, she would hunt elsewhere, but most of her Outskirts attacks was to entertain players. All of them gather there.

The temple thing is annoying because monsters will rarely "kill" your PC. I RPed eating them and then I'd inform the player that I was going to slap them around to badly injured so he could get back and get healed. When people PvP on you, you can't hold back because rarely the other person will let you go. Most of the time, you don't even attack them, just snarl and chase them indoors. Monsters let them open the doors and get in (which are time consuming and its when people are ripe for an easy attack). Which is why the temple thing is annoying. The monster purposely lets the char go alive only to have him come back. Eventually the monster will back off not only because it can't win, but because it feels like you're playing Super Mario Bros. It gets dull after so many times.

Exactly.

I long for the time I log in and see a half dozen or more templated monsters working together to assult the outskirts again. The pendulum will swing and the night will be scary again.

[PinkTarantula]

[...]

[...]

I long for the time I log in and see a half dozen or more templated monsters working together to assult the outskirts again. [...]

God.  No.  That would be utterly ridiculous, and just destroy any semblance whatsoever of realism and proper roleplay.  Let's face it : there is no Team Evil.  The breed of monsters we have on the server are too diverse to form a cohesive group like the Sinister Six to chase to good guys away, or what will you.  Nor should they.  The undead are undead, and they have their goals and needs.  Hell, their goals and needs even differ from undead to undead, from breed to breed.

And the werecreatures...  The werecreatures are unlikely to see the undead as anything other than competition; after all, they're both sustained by the same food stock.  As afflicted lycanthropes are reverted to base animals, I find it unlikely they'd consider the altruistic approach and the long term benefits of teaming up with vampires or the rotting dead.  It's not going to happen.  They're going skulk around where they know the food is, and try to get their fix.  And probably die trying, since there's a 1up factory just inside the church.

Evil is meant to be self destructive, isn't it?  I thought that was part of the whole job description.  When Neithu was still alive and kicking with the ratpox, I seem to remember having him attack other monsters who were in the act of feeding.  They were messing with his foodstock, after all.  The result was always that I got beat up or that the prey got away, but that's the fun part of it.  I doubt that the poor guy Claire was eating in an alley was expecting to get away, as the two rats began to fight over who got the first bite.  Just as little as Lilitu expected to get dragged off by a hungry rat, only to then get flung away when the rat realized she wasn't edible. 

In the end, the night and the horrors that inhabit it would become a lot less interesting if you happened to see a werewolf and a wight sit down to share a slice of Bariovian buttock with a good glass of brain juice.