Author Topic: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low  (Read 2168 times)

kezzalord

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Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« on: September 20, 2008, 10:29:08 PM »
Several of the player-made leather armors with mid AC bonuses have a 1-10gp price range... which is significantly cheaper than standard leather armor.
I found murnu selling one for 2gp for example.

Not sure if it's a bug, but it seemed really strange.



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failed.bard

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2008, 12:33:18 AM »
There are only a very few crafted items that sell for more thean 10 fangs.  It's deliberately done in order to keep the crafting economy player driven, as opposed to being able to be a gold farm for PCs.

Granted, there are at least three items that can be sold for massive profit still, but I'm not putting that list in a public forum.

Wids

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2008, 07:45:08 AM »
Several of the player-made leather armors with mid AC bonuses have a 1-10gp price range... which is significantly cheaper than standard leather armor.
I found murnu selling one for 2gp for example.

Not sure if it's a bug, but it seemed really strange.
...and it annoys me greatly.  I go through a lot of Gold making all of those light armors, customizing them with parts-crafting and dyes so that no two armors look alike, then selling them for a mere 1 Gold each.  I'm definitely losing a good chunk of money in pursuit of Leatherworking, Level: Godlike (or at least Leatherworking, Level: Better than Liam and Mariska and everyone else...  :P ).

So I figure that, if the market is going to trash Viorica's purse, I might as well do some good for the world while giving Viorica a chance to make her mark on it.  So now I sell all my customized handmade armors to Petre, just so the newbies can have some good, cheap armor when coming aboard.  "Whoa!  Here's a suit of studded leather with Cold resistance, going for only 2 Gold!  Mine!"

Take that, server.   :twisted:

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There are only a very few crafted items that sell for more thean 10 fangs.  It's deliberately done in order to keep the crafting economy player driven, as opposed to being able to be a gold farm for PCs.

Granted, there are at least three items that can be sold for massive profit still, but I'm not putting that list in a public forum.
Profit?  Heck, I'd be happy to break even.  :(

Two wolf pelts:  Free
Two bottles of tannin, for turning the two pelts into six patches:  2 Fang
Four lumps of bee's wax:  4 Fang
Studded leather template:  3 Fang (or 2 if Aleksei likes me, which he rarely does...)
_____________________________
Total cost to craft one suit of basic studded leather armor, with no alterations:  9 Fang

So, as an example, if Matatius or Petre or Murnu or whoever would offer 9 Fang for a suit of studded leather, that would be great.  Can I get an "Amen" here?  :?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 07:54:34 AM by Wids »

Badbelly

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2008, 11:04:57 AM »
The system is set up to sell to PC's, not NPC's for profit. We need to make it so that NPC's can't buy crafted goods at all IMO. Its frustrating to see crafted goods selling at NPC shops for a few coins when you are trying to run a buisness. Throw them in the trash instead of selling them.

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2008, 11:07:09 AM »
This isn't a bug, but how the selling system of crafted goods is set up. Moving.


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Wids

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2008, 06:50:25 PM »
The system is set up to sell to PC's, not NPC's for profit. We need to make it so that NPC's can't buy crafted goods at all IMO. Its frustrating to see crafted goods selling at NPC shops for a few coins when you are trying to run a buisness. Throw them in the trash instead of selling them.
...which would do absolutely nothing for offsetting the costs of crafting the items, while wasting perfectly good items which other players might find useful.  So I for one must reject your suggestion.

With as much volume as they deal in, Murnu and the marketplace merchants wouldn't lose any sleep over a few player-crafted items in their stock which, for some unconscionable reason, the merchants refuse to turn around and sell at prices which are competitive with the rest of their wares.  If the weaponsmith is selling a common shortsword forged on her own anvil for 20 Fang yet chooses to sell a bartered silver-gilded steel shortsword for 1 Fang, then the smith who sold the superior blade to her can't really be faulted if she sells the blade at a price which undercuts her own mundane stock, can he?

But seeing as the Bioware engine seems to compute buying and selling prices with percentages of the same base amount per item, this is probably how the markets are going to remain.  It would be nice if player-character artisans could manage their own kiosks and set their own prices for their own wares as they saw fit; then the marketplace would be a more competitive and capitalist player-versus-player environment, not player versus NPC.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 06:53:03 PM by Wids »

failed.bard

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2008, 01:56:25 AM »
The player smiths already set their own prices, and once you can make items that are actually worth selling, there is no real advantage in creating bulk orders.  The playerbase as a whole would cry if they knew how many hundreds of steel full plates have gone in the bin as the smiths worked their way up to being able to make them easily.
  Now that ebon cat hides are in, the leather-workers have an armour they can easily sell to PCs for 2000 fangs, regardless of whether murnu buys them for a single fang or not.

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2008, 07:17:54 AM »
Ebon hides is one of the best things to hit the leather makers market... I'll add scrag hides to that as well... the benefit is good for people who have low saves in certain areas.

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

Wids

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2008, 05:17:35 PM »
It seems a little bit hard to find buyers for crafted merchandise, though.  If it wasn't for these forums (and hawking one's wares on them), can you imagine trying to peddle wares by walking around Vallaki and playing the town crier?  "Steel full plate, right here!  Get a suit for only 2,000 Fang!  Hurry, hurry, supplies are limited...."

Some of the servers I've seen out there have signs and message placards which can be edited by players to leave messages for others...messages which last until the server resets, anyway.  One such editable sign is on Chateau Roissy, but I don't recommend going there unless you don't mind being chained up, whipped and raped in every orifice by vampire satyrs, half-angel dragon people, furries and similar nonsense.  I'm still trying to forget some of my narrow escapes.  And non-escapes.  Brrr.    :oops:

Zedrik

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2008, 11:29:12 PM »
It seems a little bit hard to find buyers for crafted merchandise, though.  If it wasn't for these forums (and hawking one's wares on them), can you imagine trying to peddle wares by walking around Vallaki and playing the town crier?  "Steel full plate, right here!  Get a suit for only 2,000 Fang!  Hurry, hurry, supplies are limited....

I don't have to imagine. That's exactly what I tried to do with Ulfga. However, no one wants silvered steel weapons or steel armor.
So basically, smithing is just dumping money in the garbage to train skills. Even more so is tanning.

This is why I rarely log Ulfga in any more. And why Gia never does any tanning/leatherworking anymore despite listing Tanner as her profession to guards.

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Nefensis

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2008, 11:39:54 PM »
Ulfga made good money while Denalie worked for her, pc dynamic shouldnt stop at the crafter, so i've demonstrated.

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Wids

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2008, 11:42:08 PM »
Yeah, the demand for silver-gilded weapons and steel or hard-boiled armor is a bit limited.  There are only so many players on the server, and once they each have one or two weapons (or three, for us dual-wielding melee archers) and a choice suit of armor, they're set.  They don't need to do anymore shopping.  So it's off to the marketplace with the extra wares....

I should totally make a thread about that.  "Which merchants will pay the most for your junk."  Murnu's Mercantile is not the best place to sell your silver battle axe, folks....   :mrgreen:

Helaman

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2008, 01:55:34 AM »
Typical example - It costs me 1000 fang to TRY to make my first platemail (never mind the 1000's it cost me to get to this level)... Hurrah!!! I did it first roll! Lucky me I don't need to spend another 2-3 thousand on failed rolls at -5.

Great... now who wants it? Its full plate, its steel but it doesnt have the backing that does give cold etc protection... so, any takers?

Lets say you find a sucker customer to unload it onto at a price that MIGHT get you your 1000 fang back... you are screwing yourself out of a potential customer because once someone has full plate... they may not be too willing to spend 2K+ on a new set of armour in the short term unless you offer a trade in deal. Sell it to Murnu? Not only are you gonna make a loss BUT you are again screwing yourself out of a potential customer.

So you go on the market against the likes of the Silver Lady... who can't fail on most armour rolls (mind you she PAID for that right, shes worked DAMN hard at it)... whereas you are looking at investing and buying 3 templates for every 2 because you fail the odd roll here and there.

Crafting is a bottomless pit for most. In the early days you could sell to Murnu and recoup your losses and make a small (not obscene) profit but I understand that the Dev's needed to step in.

I lose money on it, then I break even, then for some reason everyone who can craft disappears for a week, I log on and get a dozen tells for stuff, I overcharge (hey, its a character flaw not driven by greed), make enough to bank some... then pour thousands more into making armours that go into the bin getting good at making armours with the new backings (love those!!!) and am back at break even or loss.

Sounds BAD for the Smiths, right? I mean 1000 fang a template? Eventually they can break even, sooner or later they'll get their chance and hell, aventuring fang needs to go into SOMETHING, right?

Armourers get the best of the deal - they can make armours, shields and weapons. Leather makers just get armour and it takes FOREVER to get good at Curing, Leatherboiling and then Leatherworking (three skills to the smiths two, smelting and smithing)... Hides are more or less free but take longer to gather (smiths can just hack at ore seams, most leatherworkers have to run all over the place hunting if they dont want to pay) and longer to work (hides are worked one at a time, ore can be smelted in lots), and the CXP system really favours smiths, with big gains on certain item combinations, whereas leather workers plod along.

Weapon eating monsters are increasing so it is doing some good for the crafter community. :D

Completed leather goods with special backing at least need to be sold for 20 fang-30 fang so there is SOME profit even selling to Murnu.  It lessens the community marketplace but until crafted boots, capes, belts etc come in the leather makers are working at a loss... they need to throw a lot of work in the trash before they can get good enough to make the leather backed armours that can command 500-1000 fang a sale - Ebon cat and Elder Scrag Hide (not sure on the Bodak yet)

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

Zarathustra217

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2008, 03:55:47 AM »
As it's been mentioned a few times before - we can't freely control the gold value cost of crafted items. The only way to avoid it to be way too high is to have it as low as it is now.

Helaman

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2008, 04:03:18 AM »
I understand why you did it.

I'll wait on the crafted clothing, belts and capes. THEN those guys should do OK.

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

Wids

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2008, 08:58:47 AM »
I understand why you did it.

I'll wait on the crafted clothing, belts and capes. THEN those guys should do OK.
...and the leatherworkers hope that this does happen soon.  No pressure.  :P

For now, can we at least get back the CEP options when crafting and altering weapons and shields?  I miss the claymore-like blades for bastard swords and greatswords.  The shortsword which looked like a broken longsword had its own charm, too.  :(

Helaman

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2008, 09:41:16 AM »
I'd say the CEP stuff is in the lap of the CEP 2.2 creators  :lol:

Looking forward to cloaks, belts and boots.

Boots that give +2 to Move Silently could easily command 500 fang a pair. Belts that provide +1 (as opposed to the +2 for armour) to negative energy saves are gonna be as sought as any of the belts in lairs, and more so if you can make belts and boots that give a +1 or 2 to Influence (Noble Boots), or cold resistance...and Cloaks? 5 Cold resistance with something else is mighty fine.... or maybe even white stag hide to make something that is +1 AC vs Evil.

Possibilities for leather crafters are endless then.

Me? I'd also love to see "Masterwork" templates. Insanely priced (or even DM provided) that have very high DCs but make something out of the box... so boots that give +4, not +2 move sliently, Cloaks that give +10 cold resistance and weapons and armours that are even lighter or do a little more damage. I'd love to make a Masterwork Katana that bought its wieght down to 5-6 lbs or a Set of Plate that wieghted 30-36lbs or acted as Medium armour (-7 skill bonus, not the full -10)... properly controlled (maybe DM quest is best - you gather the best raw materials, the GM exchanges it for the appropriate template) these items would be highly sought and valued beyond the current mass produced current crafter items.

Looking forward to see what happens here in this workspace - I haven't been disappointed yet and have been a little spoiled in fact.

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

Wids

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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2008, 11:30:32 PM »
You know, I had been thinking of taking over a Marketplace booth to help Viorica display and sell her stuff, and after seeing Badbelly set Liam and his tent up earlier today, I may just do that.  :D

Speaking of which, Delph, whatever became of this vanished application, anyway?  :?


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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2008, 12:10:46 AM »
It's in the guard forums. Blame Heretic. Application was passed on to another NPC.


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Re: Crafting - Item value for some crafted goods too low
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2008, 09:06:50 AM »
Viorica lost the bid to an NPC?

*blames Heretic*   :censored: