Author Topic: New Dungeons - A modest proposal: more areas for fighter-types, no hybrids and stuff  (Read 6774 times)

Kendaric

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Why dont just make a dungeon script denied mage class to enter at all seem easier. because frankly if you make a hostile dungeon or killer dungeon for mage i dont see why mages want to go there in the first place.

Because they could still go there, but if they decided to go they'd need the company of warriors to stand a chance. Basically they'd be in the situation many of us warriors find ourselves in.
The basic idea is to create places where warriors are actually required rather than considered an optional 'nice to have but unnecessary' addition (though I wouldn't mind having a couple of 'no casters allowed' dungeons personally).

Rex

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Why dont just make a dungeon script denied mage class to enter at all seem easier. because frankly if you make a hostile dungeon or killer dungeon for mage i dont see why mages want to go there in the first place.

Nope, don't want a Barred Entry set up that's the easy way out, and the Idea, is to make an Area, that is as Unfriendly to Casters, as the Other Areas, are Unfriendly to Non Casters.  Think of it as a reversal of the current dungeon set up.

It can be done without going the Spam Route as well.

It just can't be done, by a Caster.

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DM Tarokka

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Yeah definitely better to focus on dungeons since the whole RP is for factions people *shrugs*
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Helaman

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RP is a issue for another thread, this is a thread focusing on dungeon design that works to make it so Casters are forced to Party up and making them so that ALL classes have a chance to shine... so it would hold down ninja'ing etc

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

shadymerchant

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I think it should be pointed out that just because you haven't made a fighter capable of achieving victory somewhere, doesn't mean its not possible. Tarth is often brought up as an example of a great build, and he is at that. His AC surpasses my wizard, and his offense as well. There's some very powerful barbarian builds that could solo some of the higher level areas on this server. It's tough, yeah. The enemies here tend to be high AB and high damage, and they came in multiples, so unless you can out club them  it's a losing battle. They also tend to be crit immune, and in some cases have high damage resistance. It's these types of foes that can stop a high level fighter in his tracks, but not even slow down Tensers. Then again, that makes the problem the monsters, not the mages. It doesn't help that it's quite rare on RL to have a band of 3 to 4 level 18's traveling together. When you boil it down, the server as it stands right now have two to three pure melee builds of that level, and the rest are somewhere around 10 to 13. It's interesting that at the end of the day, RL has more soloing and less group play than any server I have ever played on. From my own experience though, being a melee build does not change this. I spent months soloing various crypts and the werewolf den with my weapon master. I like to solo. My wizard can solo places my fighter cannot, that is all. If I could find a caster to be my main man, I'd gladly do it. shoot, I tried with Tzaeru but he wasn't so hot on the idea ;) Magiko has paid tens of thousands to tanks just to act as tanks for him, basically so I can take them to dungeons. Again, it's not mages. The popularity of mages here is a direct reaction to the environment being fostered.  Designing a map that mages "can't beat" seems pretty silly. Why not simply make a few high reward maps that a tank can beat, and then tanks can have their fun there earning xp and gold? The werewolf caves, by the way, are a wonderful challenge for a level 6/8 tank.

Rex

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Re: New Dungeons - A modest proposal: more areas for fighter-types, no hybrids a
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2008, 08:31:03 AM »
Was hoping to have this posted by Last night but my Power going out sort of curtailed that.  Apparently Mini Vans are attracted to the Power Junction Pole outside my House.  Part of the layout will include a Class Break Down in the Examples so that folks stop bringing up "mold breakers" as examples for situations, since those don't count or factor in anyway.

I do need to check one more thing test wise before I post the stuff so it should be ready in a day or so if Work allows me to actually "play" a bit.  Much like helaman has posted:
RP is a issue for another thread, this is a thread focusing on dungeon design that works to make it so Casters are forced to Party up and making them so that ALL classes have a chance to shine... so it would hold down ninja'ing etc
 

Who's got what build and what not and who can do what and when is a topic for another thread. 

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Helaman

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Shady, werewolf dens are cool for fighters... if you can pick locks

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

EO

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Shady, werewolf dens are cool for fighters... if you can pick locks

Bring a rogue along then. Unless you want fighters, just like mages, to solo things. In an ideal world, you want a dungeon that you need a mage, a rogue, a cleric and a fighter for (other classes are associated with those), not a dungeon that a fighter can solo or a dungeon that a mage can solo.

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Werewolves are Wizard killers. Always have been, always will be......unless the wizard pull the I'm an acid sheath beachball. But then any decient fighter just need bring an easily available Silver weapon, or better Silver gilded for the extra dmg.

Bring a rogue along then. Unless you want fighters, just like mages, to solo things. In an ideal world, you want a dungeon that you need a mage, a rogue, a cleric and a fighter for (other classes are associated with those), not a dungeon that a fighter can solo or a dungeon that a mage can solo.
100% agree with EO here. More parties less soloing.

shadymerchant

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What is stopping your fighter from opening locks? You don't need to multiclass to open half of those on the server. Look, it's possible to make a very versatile fighter, even without multiclassing. The number of feats you can get is an open window to grabbing skill focuses and all types of interesting shit not available to other classes. Consider the frustrations you'll face, and how to solve them. Personally, as someone that likes to solo as much as i do, not having open lock would drive me insane and kill a lot of my enthusiasm. I know this from the getgo. Every single build I make, whether it's paladin or wizard, can open locks. I don't spend half of my time on this server posting rants or hating my build because I know exactly what I am getting when i start them.

Helaman

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Werewolves are Wizard killers. Always have been, always will be......unless the wizard pull the I'm an acid sheath beachball. But then any decient fighter just need bring an easily available Silver weapon, or better Silver gilded for the extra dmg.

Bring a rogue along then. Unless you want fighters, just like mages, to solo things. In an ideal world, you want a dungeon that you need a mage, a rogue, a cleric and a fighter for (other classes are associated with those), not a dungeon that a fighter can solo or a dungeon that a mage can solo.
100% agree with EO here. More parties less soloing.


Yep - I missed the point here - balanced dungeons is the key and all in all the wolf caves are pretty cool

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

Rex

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Re: New Dungeons - A modest proposal: more areas for fighter-types, no hybrids a
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2008, 10:52:54 AM »
What is stopping your fighter from opening locks? You don't need to multiclass to open half of those on the server. Look, it's possible to make a very versatile fighter, even without multiclassing. The number of feats you can get is an open window to grabbing skill focuses and all types of interesting shit not available to other classes. Consider the frustrations you'll face, and how to solve them. Personally, as someone that likes to solo as much as i do, not having open lock would drive me insane and kill a lot of my enthusiasm. I know this from the getgo. Every single build I make, whether it's paladin or wizard, can open locks. I don't spend half of my time on this server posting rants or hating my build because I know exactly what I am getting when i start them.

Once again, Not posting a Class War, or a Build War.  It's a Dungeon Layout.  Pure and Simple.  It has Nothing to do with "Kind of Fighter you tweak or Build", it's an Environmental Playing Field that plays to the Strengths of the Fighter types, As opposed to the Caster Types.  However, since this is doing nothing but prompting people to constantly post up, this build that build do this do that, and yet, no one has even seen the results of the topic, I'm relegating My Reply to the PM field Now.

Sorry Helaman you're now in the Que.  I'll try and get the Layout to you tonight since I'm going to take my Hour of Play time and Just catch up on PM's.  Just drop me a quick PM when you get a chance as a Reminder.  Anyway, work calls.

~Rex
Sometimes brutal violence is the only answer.