Eh. The setting wasn't really made with the intention of people playing a bunch of native non-casters anyway. The entire premise was people falling into the Realms from other places, where magic was more common. If someone wants to play a native Barovian, that's their own issue. Then they can be xenophonic and never have anyone of decent power to party with because they're little scardey-cats where magic is concerned. But it's pretty silly to limit PCs to just fighters and barbarians, making people apply for casters. Probably better to let it sort out ICly. If I were a powerful magician, I might consider killing off other magicians before they grew in power to rival me. That's always why I figured Strahd sorta fostered the anti-witchery sentiment of Barovia. Suits his purpose really.
So it's perfectly OK, to Limit a Fighter Type Character, by Neutering his growth in the form of Items (using Low Magic as the excuse), but to apply a similar restriction or reality (spell components) to a Caster, would be unbearable? When they originally came out, with the Ravenloft Modules, pre Sword and Sorcery Days, the Idea was of the Drop In, the Outlanders. When Sword and Sorcery (Arthaus/Whitewolf) liscensed out and built on the Setting info that was previously coming to fruit, they went for the OTHER end, the native player. The Domain Lord COULD, fix about half the problem. There are already Other factors in game that would help as well, but they Just, Don't, Do it. Because it would either be "mean", in the views of a computer game player (even if perfectly appropriate), OR, they don't want the hassle of the OOC fall Out and retribution that will surely fall upon them.
Explains having a Players Hand Book and a DM's guide for the setting. Sure you still have your Outlanders, but now, you could play natives. Granted, writer debacles occured and What not but they did Produce, a rather nice setting for Native Play. It just made to Outlander game difficult. Unbalancing.
First off, Rex, no one is belittling englefire's viewpoint which I believe is still very valid.
I do agree with some of your points you raise Rex. Magic people have replaced magic items. However, you point out the problems, but you do not offer any solutions. Applications for caster classes isn't a road I think the server should go down. The DMs and Community Council are busy as it is with other applications, and alot of players will turn away from a game where you need to apply to play a wizard/sorcerer/cleric/bard/ranger/paladin.. It should be down to the players to enforce the setting and should always bear the setting in mind when creating their characters.
Another point, is that half of the base classes have some sort of spellcasting ability. This means that of course there is going to be an uneven amount of spellcasters present among PCs.
What I would like to say is the 'win at all costs' attitude that influences OOC decisions into people making casters to 'beat the server' should not be encouraged. I am by no means saying that every caster player does this, and perhaps there is another reason for the influx of caster classes on the server. However I believe that players that truely want to experience the ravenloft atmoshphere and feel of the setting will go ahead and play the so called 'gimped' classes. There will always be players who make casters for the sole purpose of beating the dungeons. However in the long run I believe the former group will get far more enjoyment.
Never said anyone WAS belittling his point. I said, don't get Side Tracked by those that don't agree with it. There is a very Vocal minority here that is really good at circling the wagons and making people feel bad about their post, before one even gets to see development out of it. What gets belittled are those that Stick to their Guns in the form of Conforming to the setting as opposed to trying tro Win the Game, and there are a lot of those people. If you doubt the "I'm a Caster/Sneak Multiclass in Order to Win" All you have to do, is look through the other threads. There is a big difference between making a balance point, and going, Where's My Stuff to Blast, Gimme my Loot.
Rex, no one ever said that his opinion wasn't valid. The fact is that this isn't something worth debating. Why? Becuase to 'change' the server to have less casters would require something that would inevitably make the server empty out from pissed off community members. You'd have to tell players to stop making casters, and no one's going to put up with that, since there already are casters. It's bad enough that we're taking out items from the module, yet players who have the said items get to keep them, thus leaving newer characters unhappy that they're not old-school-enough to have the specific gear.
IF you're going to play a non-caster who holds a grudge against all forms of magic, then that's your cup of tea. No one is going to criticize your RP, and you shouldn't critcize theirs. If one player feels they get better RP out of playing overt or covert witches, let them! What's going to happen? Is your immersion completly destroyed because someone chose 'rogue' or 'wizard' on their character sheet, and that they're, OMG, using stealth & flinging fireballs?
There's more important things worth debating than critiquing a form of role-play. No one should have to feel like they're damping down the server becuase they decided to choose a caster as their class. And Engelfire, it's not your fault. Everyone has those urges to post a discussion on a topic that's irritating. The only problem is that whenever these discussions start, they usually end from a lock since we, as a community, tend to branch off into right vs. not right.
Now ... I will make one statement on this matter, but it won't be relevant since it would only apply tothe future (NWN2). If the majority of the community and devs feel that we should have a setting where classes (like casters) are restricted, then that restriction should be applied before a server goes open beta from closed. That way, you won't have a special section of players who got to have access to something that no one else has.
Once again, posted nothing about his opinion being belittled or classified as Invalid by others, but now that the point was made, as any english major should know, when someone presents an opening argument in a debateable forum, and some of the first answers, are, "This Topic is Irrelevant." That, in and of itself, is a statement proclaiming, the others viewpoint wasn't valid. It meant nothing in other words, no leg to stand upon. Now on to the second part....
Actually, I am playing, a Pile of Native to the Setting people, BUT, *drum cue*, I also Play CASTERS. So I am not holding a grudge against those that like to play Casters no matter how many times I trip over a hasted Acid Sheathed Troll zipping out of some dungeon I just lead a small party of folk to. I'm holding out for a balance, for the NON Caster side of the Plate to get something. For the time, when that Troll, or hasted Invisable Bard goes rushing into a Dungeon, that they have to rush back out and go get a FIGHTER, to help.
Again, no one is Critiquing a FORM OF ROLE PLAY. Not once, did anyone get their level of RP critiqued, However, if there are any volunteers that are willing to sign a waiver, I will be happy to do so. In another thread.
*Looks over the Quote* Oh yeah, sometimes when you are Right, you are actually Right. Regardless of weather or not it turns into a Side vs Side argument, that's basically the way the Universe Operates. Chaos and Order, Right and Wrong, Life and Death, Winners and Losers. You need progressive Dynamics in order to Advance in anything. Even if one were to go the route of "In Game" to fix it, based on Supportable IC reasoning, the Fall out, would be nothing but OOC hatred and Venom for the person(s) that decided to do so........
Back to Mephisto. I DID, offer solutions. Proven Ones that work. If you take Items away from the Fighters, which makes people turn to Caster Classes, then Assign the appropriate Limiters to the CASTERS, such as components, and seprate study time for spells, By The Book results of Spells like XP loss, and now they are at least, on the same Page as the non Caster, per setting. There is a Balance, to their now as it stands, Exponentially growing disruptive effect upon the enviroment of the game. An Application Process is NOTHING. Done it in my Admin days for things a lot more long term impacting and potentially disruptive then a DnD sheet. Any DM can also, level the playing field a bit by Applying the DM side to the equation, and do some DM things, for the Non Caster side of the server once in awhile. Right now with Casters being Unfettered by anything, the few factors left to balance them, mean nothing (those being Hitpoints, AC, etc) since the things that kept them from bypassing their Innate Class restrictions (components mostly), kept them grounded. And finally, the Witch Hunter Faction. Doable, but you have to be Proactive. That means, More Stabbing and Burning, Less talky talky posture pose. That's how villages with Pitchforks and Torches, beat Monsters and Witches.
~Rex
