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Author Topic: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?  (Read 3223 times)

Helaman

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Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« on: September 02, 2008, 01:15:45 AM »
Quest XP for Max Spawn...

There WAS (not sure if its there now) a quest where you took a letter from the Gov't building to the farmlands and got Xp (or was it gold?)...

Is it replicatable?

Once a dungeon hits max spawn; the quest is triggered with a relevant NPC, a boss creature is generated and creatures move outside the lair and also into the next map region.

So when the bettles hit max, the beetles appear near his hut AND his quest is now "bring me back - xyz of the [boss creature] and clear the lair"

The party wipe out the lair and kill the Big Mother Beetle and get item big mother bettle mandible... which the NPC then spawns an XP bonus for those in the hut when redeemed... however I see multiple abuses possible here. The other thing is the Boss Creature grants a decent XP hit when killed - but once again, I can see this being a bit of an issue - that said, people do hunt the Snow Golems so no more than the issue already there. Maybe if the person has to be in the party or area of the person holding a 'quest marker'?

NPCs can be set up for the Thouls on the southern farmlands

Spiders is a toughie - maybe at the silver mine camp (open the door and let ppl work with the NPC) or at the hermit woman near the Fishing lodge etc or the fishing lodge itself...

Dwarven miner for the Coal mines (and Alhoon - the Alhoon is a rescue mission - proof of the dwarves fate- alhoon drops a dwarf skull at max spawn) etc etc


Two benefits: One - there is a IG method for detiremining when parties know when it is best to join forces and head out. And those taking the quest (if quest markers are there) will get the most benefit (one quest marker only given once max spawn is hit) and two - Max spawn, when Thoul Champions etc come out will grant additional XP to balance the risk.

Mind you - NO idea at ALL how to code this or avoid the possible abuses.

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2008, 04:21:53 AM »
Actually, it is something we are currently planning... :)

It'll be more involving too, but can't say much more at the moment though - I still need to look at the options and it's unsure when I'll get the time to implement it.

Chrisman888

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2008, 04:30:50 PM »
Should throw in a bunch of quests. Make it MMORPG style! lol.
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Rex

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2008, 04:49:09 PM »
Static Quests ......aka.....Content Driven Menu Quests, are an easy and fair way to toss out some XP, and make sure you get either the right group or the right type of PC's doing the stuff.  I've always liked a mix of DM quests, Static Content Quests, and Live Dungeons.  Makes for a more stable field of growth.

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Aldabreck Stone Helm

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2008, 05:59:27 PM »
I stand beside Rex on this issue. I think it is a fantastic idea.

Rex

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2008, 06:05:43 PM »
I stand beside Rex on this issue. I think it is a fantastic idea.

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Aldabreck Stone Helm

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 12:20:41 AM »
Notice the big shield and hammer. Let them throw.

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 06:19:51 AM »
What I was initially thinking about was making Houlgrave occasionally ask for rare artifacts he have read mentioned in old text, give a direction to an area and then, whenever someone returns with this artifact, reward with gold or item. The XP rewarding would be problematic, as if you rewarded all in the area, it wouldn't take long before you had sneaks afk'ing in stealth mode inthere. With our XP system, I don't think many really need XP that badly anyway - they would get plenty from just going to the place and wiping out whatever lives there.

Other quests could be, as mentioned, dependent on high spawn levels. In that way, you'll also be given some directions as to where spawns are high. It's more uncertain though who will be interested in places like the failed lich tower or other remote places to be wiped out. Ideas are welcome.

Dreaderick

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 05:05:44 PM »
I always found the idea of receiving xp at the end of a quest a bit silly. You hand item X over to person Y and the moment the item leaves your hands you gain a sudden flash of insight.

It is a useful bookkeeping trick when you have a limited group of people who learned during an adventure but this will be hard to implement in PotM due to the reasons given above.

Would it be possible to somehow increase the XP gain during the adventure? Add some extra monsters or give a bonus to XP for a particular dungeon once its quest is activated (resetting of course after some threshold of time, monsters or xp is passed to avoid farming).

Another option (not sure if it is feasible, codewise): add some placeables that have to be destroyed during the quest, for example bash down a door or destroy a chest. Treat that placable as a monster that gives XP once its destroyed.

Or.. to make a wild suggestion: make xp gained during the quest have no (or a limited) effect on the xp cap :lol:


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ethinos

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 07:05:19 PM »
I'm against quest XP because it doesn't make sense. You find a lost relic and gain 2000 XP. This causes you to be a better sword wielder. Or now you can suddenly cast a higher level spell. Wtf? No. If you have a mage, you should gain XP through reseaching magic, practicing it, and through the application of those spells. Stabbing a frog with a dagger should only give you a little benefit towards your progression as a mage, whereas, whomping it with a magic missile should give you full XP. Doing non-class related things should either give you minimal or no XP.

This is one of the reasons I was so glad to see CXP implemented for crafting since it has little to do with the normal XP system.

I'd like to see more XP gained from utilizing class skills. Melee guys gain full XP from slashing/bashing critters. Rogues get XP from disarming traps and picking locks (and meaning spawned versions to prevent abuse). Clerics from casting spells and whacking things. Mages from casting spells, maybe even some kind of IC researching/study system.

Just some random brainstorming, without taking into account the ways to script these kinds of things.
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Rex

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 08:15:39 PM »
I'm against quest XP because it doesn't make sense. You find a lost relic and gain 2000 XP. This causes you to be a better sword wielder. Or now you can suddenly cast a higher level spell. Wtf? No. If you have a mage, you should gain XP through reseaching magic, practicing it, and through the application of those spells. Stabbing a frog with a dagger should only give you a little benefit towards your progression as a mage, whereas, whomping it with a magic missile should give you full XP. Doing non-class related things should either give you minimal or no XP.

This is one of the reasons I was so glad to see CXP implemented for crafting since it has little to do with the normal XP system.

I'd like to see more XP gained from utilizing class skills. Melee guys gain full XP from slashing/bashing critters. Rogues get XP from disarming traps and picking locks (and meaning spawned versions to prevent abuse). Clerics from casting spells and whacking things. Mages from casting spells, maybe even some kind of IC researching/study system.

Just some random brainstorming, without taking into account the ways to script these kinds of things.

I don't understand why folks are against gaining XP from a static source, then play it off as not understanding why a Fighter gets better with his sword for doing a quest (yet that is the fundamental mechanic of any solo computer rpg which people seem to love : See Baldurs Gate).  It's no more unreasonable then gaining XP, for hanging out in a tavern chit chatting with the locals for an hour.

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ethinos

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2008, 08:22:21 PM »
Ok. Maybe I should state this a bit better, since I've had some time to think it over.

Every challenge that you overcome should be worth something XP-wise. It's not too unreasonable, since a lot of skills focus on areas that don't take the class into account much and general life experience can make up for this increased capacity. However, to advance as a fighter, for example, your activities that support that class should be the primary means of your increased capabilities.

RP XP, as we gain it, used to be minor. Its changed I think and it boggles my mind sometimes, though. I'm not against having minor XP being granted for general activities. I just think that to be a better blacksmith, you should practice being a blacksmith. Not weaving baskets, going to prom, or eating your Wheaties.
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Helaman

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2008, 12:48:45 AM »
Quest XP is an artificial mechanic... always has been.

IC it could be a sense of achievement knowing you have completed a dangerous/challenging task etc...

But OOC? The fact that some dungeons as mucho lethal to mid to high level PCs BUT they get no xp for it (and we know that loot is a long term issue still getting fixed) there is NO compensation for the risk... so unless we want to put an extra XP tag on the same monsters that are not granting xp now (something that may not be possible due to the game engine) we need some mechanic for it.

Quest XP is something already coded into the game and should be easy enough to replicate/input into the game.

Open to abuses that I don't know how to safeguard against ? you betcha  - I said as much, but there needs to be something for when the Thouls hit max spawn requiring a party of 8th+ level PCs to defeat but who are denied any reasonable XP because the challenge level of the creatures on a creature by creature basis is too low, even though the challenge level of the lair (or the whole) is greater than its parts.

Anyway thanks to Soren for looking into this - it sounds cool that there will be IG mechanics for quests etc and/or notification of highspawn other than sneaking in and counting the number of XYZ beasties.

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

kenpen

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2008, 02:12:39 AM »
Here would be a neat quest... actually have some people trapped down in those cells in the Alhoon lair, with the piles of bones. You know, future experiments you could save... maybe even choose to keep them locked up, for evil people. Muahaha. They don't always have to be there, but that would be cool.

Nefensis

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2008, 08:10:54 AM »
The thing with static quests is that 3 years later you feel like a fish in a bowl. Why isnt the dragon dead yet, why arent we able to go in the Quinn Roche vault, havent i figured out where the dead nobles were already? etc etc. i'd prefer to see more DM ran mini quests even if just go fetch the item, i recall Marcel giving Zetch and the gang all kind of little plots like that.

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kenpen

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2008, 08:23:44 AM »
Well, alhoon is always going to be stealing people to make broken ones. :) As long as he's alive that is.

Soren / Zarathustra217

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2008, 11:16:44 AM »
Quest XP makes as much sense as XP for delivering the killing blow. Ideally, you would gain XP from having to flee from a monster too, or just beating them half dead before they run. The XP on death is a pragmatic solution, and quest XP would be no different. It would resemble what you have learned while doing the quest, not just from handing over an artifact or similar.

That said, I don't think we'll be giving out any quest related XP, atleast initially. Items and gold can work as rewards, but mainly, it's a matter of providing purposes for adventure.

Keep the ideas coming :)

archonzero

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2008, 07:28:24 PM »
  The idea behind quest XP completion.  Is that it always will provide the player (dependent on level) with a set amount of XP.  I would advocate the quest completion XP be a min/max 50-500 xp for completion based on a variation of how difficult said quest would be, as well to what levels were required for the quest.  (grouped 1-5, 2-5, 4-8, etc...)  This would prevent high level characters from tagging along to carebear low levels, promote group working efficient mechanics, RP for success or failure.

  Static quests should also be on a transition basis, closed to those who have not taken the quest, basically a locked area that can only be entered by a group of players fitting the level range who have grouped to take the quest.  This may require the party mode option to be enabled, something that I sort of would be against, but would understand the need to impliment.
~ OR ~

 The other option would be to have those within the quest giver's area of proximity.  ex. So that when Lizuca hands out a quest, only those within whisper range of her, who fit the level requirements for said quest will be enabled to enter said quest location/transition/door etc.

  As for the fish bowl idea on why that dragon isn't dead yet... I don't see static quests much different than static respawns, we have boss creatures and areas that have been raided and cleared how many thousands of times.. Alhoon's still there.. the Shadow Dragon is still there, the PIt Fiend is still there.. Jezra ... well maybe you see the point!  :lol:

  With static quests some of which could even end with players acquiring tokens, medals or some honorable mentions, especially if they're quests for the Count for example, or those of the Counts authority.  Just a notion, though I could easily see such items being exploited by players who repeat said quest and gain a bucket load of them just for the recognition and IC status.  Getting a bit of Quest XP be it an extra 50 or an extra couple hundred at the end of it, doesn't really affect me much, though it does afford a sense of accomplishment when you are working with other players, especially so when you are role playing and then come to the big finale.  I've always loathed the kill x for so an so xp routine and loot the corpse type achievement dangle the carrot on a stick type of hamster wheel that DnD builds on.   :twisted:  Probably why I enjoy the RP xp reward system here and a definite reason to why I choose to be more in depth with my RP emotes, as they generate more of a graphic image for the five senses.  Instead of just verbal dialogue and single note emotional notes.

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Re: Idea for XP vs Risk - Quest XP?
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2008, 07:55:27 AM »
Quest XP from static NPC sources only works if it runs a check and eviscerates anyone in range that's in stealth/invis/GS, allowing the people that should be getting the XP to also make a few extra fangs pawning off the now external internal organs.