Creatures - Elite Vampires: HIPSing Abuse

[BreakFree]

I spent ten minutes -trying- to find a way to take down an elite vampiress, but I can't even keep a steady attack on because she throws out four attacks, hips, and then does it again. Over, and over, and over. Is this a bug? Or the way they're supposed to be fighting? If it isn't a bug, could the rate of hips at least be toned down to a reasonable level? I found it pointless to even try and fight since I can't even click it fast enough to avoid standing inactive due to hide in plain sight.

[Rex]

No not a bug just the insistence of Cheating Hips Spamming monsters to be Cheating hips Spammers.  Pretty much anything in the game with Hips (which apparently, 90 percent of the server monsters have it, fresh out of Shadow Dancer ninja cheating hips spammer school) will do this to you, Up to and Including, HiPs spamming while KD'ed, Turned, Disarmed, or Taunted.

~Rex

[Taty]

90 % huh ? I'd be amazed if 10 % did.

[Soren / Zarathustra217]

(which apparently, 90 percent of the server monsters have it, fresh out of Shadow Dancer ninja cheating hips spammer school)

  Sometimes, Rex, you crack me up...

Anyway, hate it as the plague myself when monsters do that. If you asked me, the way HiPS is implemented in NWN is too imbalanced and should be stripped from the game. Perhaps we'll just strip it from the monsters, dunno... I wouldn't shed a tear...

[k_moustakas]

well, I would like to make a vampire shadowdancer pc. Attack for a while, run away, hide, regenerate to full health, fight again. Yay! A ranger shadowdancer build!

[Ryltar/ Robert Archer]

I spent ten minutes -trying- to find a way to take down an elite vampiress, but I can't even keep a steady attack on because she throws out four attacks, hips, and then does it again. Over, and over, and over. Is this a bug? Or the way they're supposed to be fighting? If it isn't a bug, could the rate of hips at least be toned down to a reasonable level? I found it pointless to even try and fight since I can't even click it fast enough to avoid standing inactive due to hide in plain sight.

did you have true seeing on? if you got true seeing plus good spot and/or listen you can nail them easily

[BreakFree]

well, I would like to make a vampire shadowdancer pc. Attack for a while, run away, hide, regenerate to full health, fight again. Yay! A ranger shadowdancer build!

Lol.

True Seeing = Check

Was just an annoyance to me. Kross has an awesome AB, so he can actually land hits (Cleric, go figure), but at the rate it was using HIPS and the misses in between the four rounds of swinging and HIPS'ing -- they manage to regenerate faster than you can actually hit them. It seems ridiculous.

[ThAnswr]

(which apparently, 90 percent of the server monsters have it, fresh out of Shadow Dancer ninja cheating hips spammer school)

  Sometimes, Rex, you crack me up...

He's like the crazy uncle in the attic.    (just kidding)

[failed.bard]

The rotting gremishkas and shades when HIPS when targetted.  With the elites I found at least you got the odd attack in.

[ethinos]

I've noticed that in some dungeons, monsters were made more challenging by giving them either HiPS or 90% concealment. Either, to me seems more like a bandaid, when other things can be done to make them more challenging without being so... cheesy.

[Ryltar/ Robert Archer]

well, I would like to make a vampire shadowdancer pc. Attack for a while, run away, hide, regenerate to full health, fight again. Yay! A ranger shadowdancer build!

Lol.

True Seeing = Check

Was just an annoyance to me. Kross has an awesome AB, so he can actually land hits (Cleric, go figure), but at the rate it was using HIPS and the misses in between the four rounds of swinging and HIPS'ing -- they manage to regenerate faster than you can actually hit them. It seems ridiculous.

in that case i'll go by what i think it was blue told me after they hips for a moment they go stealth for there next attack so True seeing is needed for hips and a good spot/listen is then needed to nail them down festers group adventuring

[ethinos]

True Seeing. Spot. Listen. Uh huh. Poor fighters. There. Now Rex doesn't need to add anything to this thread.

[Rex]

True Seeing. Spot. Listen. Uh huh. Poor fighters. There. Now Rex doesn't need to add anything to this thread.

I can always come up with something to add.  Barbarians get the shaft as well.  Actually thinking of firing up a few threads along class lines if I can figure out a way to do it without Big Brother shutting down the thread.  The Hips thing is getting way out of control, especially when it's combined with things that jump on you with that AND 90% concealment AND sneak attack.  Broken Skill and I used to defend it but Now when my +17 AB fighter can't land a hit and has to run from 4 Dark Creepers, while some puke level bard fires off Curse Song and kills a whole room of them, balance issue.

~Rex

[ethinos]

Hmm. Can we put a timer on the HiPSters? You know, they can only HiPS once every so many rounds or something? Combat should be fun and exciting (not saying easy though), and not aggravating.

As for barbarians, they actually get a decent amount of skill points compared to fighters, so less shafting.

[Rex]

Hmm. Can we put a timer on the HiPSters? You know, they can only HiPS once every so many rounds or something? Combat should be fun and exciting (not saying easy though), and not aggravating.

As for barbarians, they actually get a decent amount of skill points compared to fighters, so less shafting.

Yeah and Listen as a Class Skill so if built right you can maybe sometimes roll a 20 on listen listen.  Still, I haven't TRIED taking on an Elite Vampire ......Don't think Otto can take one to be honest as a gearless Fighter Dweeb.

~Rex

[Haplo Nexus]

Unlike other monsters, where you can kinda just click and go afk, come back and see them all dead due to great cleave, etc...you need to constantly keep clicking on the elites..gets pretty annoying...They're not impossible, but annoying.

[kenpen]

I can't find the HiPSing thread. But, yeah. Still doing it. I have to reengage every half a second. I knock them down, and... guess what, they apparently HiPS as they are falling. I kill them. And they HiPS as they are dying, and I don't see the final death blow, and I miss the XP. It's really annoying.

[Rex]

The Constant Clicking is Cheese......As in, it's Cheese that they can do that.  You don't even get an Initiative roll they just poof.  I just avoid those dungeons anymore even with a group because it's not even remotely Fun or challenging to deal with it.

~Rex

[Bad_Bud]

My paladin was unable to kill the elite vampiress with a smite evil because special attacks never seem to work on the first attack (unless you click to attack, and on your way over to attack you add the smite -- in which case the vampiress will activate HIPS because you have clicked to attack, and then the smite will be cancelled), so I decided to use my undead warding gesture.  I finally managed to land a successful warding gesture, and what did the vampiress do?  She activated HIPS while under the effect of fear, and by the time it had worn off and she revealed herself to attack, my divine favor had faded and I could no longer hit her.

That was too much for me to bear.

[Fallen]

Cheesing to disappear from plain sight?  Its an ability just like any clerical or other magical spell.  The description says to disappear in plain sight which most rp as shadows wrapping around them causing them to vanish.   Personally I don't see a problem with HIP's in PVP either, if you have a lvl 18 Cleric waiting to cast destruction on me or any of the other ways he can make me die screaming you better believe if I'm a shadowdancer I'm going to use HIP's. 

And I agree take them off the mobs ingame.

[JayeAeotiv]

I'm sure BioWare did quite a bit of playtesting and balancing when they designed the game.  It's an ability, and it's supposed to be frustrating and annoying.

[Bad_Bud]

I'm sure BioWare did quite a bit of playtesting and balancing when they designed the game.  It's an ability, and it's supposed to be frustrating and annoying.

I can't tell if that's supposed to be sarcasm or not, but anyway, abilities cannot be used while under the effect of fear, except magically when these NPC's do it.

[Delphinidae]

From NwNwiki:

Frightened creatures are struck with fear and are forced to flee from the source of the fear. They lose the ability to control their own actions. Also, while afraid, the creature has a -2 penalty to all saving throws.

From d20 (on Fear and panicked):

...In addition, the creature takes a -2 penalty on all saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. If cornered, a panicked creature cowers. A panicked creature can use special abilities, including spells, to flee; indeed, the creature must use such means if they are the only way to escape.

Hide in Plain Sight is a Supernatural special ability. I say they can go HiPS, although it is annoying.

[Anarcoplayba]

From NwNwiki:

Frightened creatures are struck with fear and are forced to flee from the source of the fear. They lose the ability to control their own actions. Also, while afraid, the creature has a -2 penalty to all saving throws.

From d20 (on Fear and panicked):

...In addition, the creature takes a -2 penalty on all saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. If cornered, a panicked creature cowers. A panicked creature can use special abilities, including spells, to flee; indeed, the creature must use such means if they are the only way to escape.

Hide in Plain Sight is a Supernatural special ability. I say they can go HiPS, although it is annoying.

To HIPS you have to enter stealth. To enter stealth you have to slow your movement rate.

It seems a bit "strange" a creature running from you in fear, but calmly and slowly, making no noise.

On the other hand, since there are creatures like gremishkas and other who have HIPS, I think that the Shadowdancer class should be open to anyone, since even irrational creatures can learn to HIPS (or the feat should be made available and we should not ask the DM's for it, nor roleplay).

Oh, sarcasm and irritation put aside, correct me if I'm wrong, but holy water makes vampires reveal themselves, doesn't it?

[Bad_Bud]

Bleh.

Still not fair, because as players we cannot use our abilities or spells in fear.