Author Topic: Troll Claws - Losing the to-hit ability  (Read 2065 times)

kenpen

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Troll Claws - Losing the to-hit ability
« on: July 30, 2008, 03:55:37 AM »
Here's an annoying problem. It finally got me killed tonight, so I figure it's post-worthy now...

Creatures who need magic weapons to hit can be struck by troll claws, umberhulk claws, etc. I'm assuming this is determined by hit dice.

If you have spells like stoneskin, or ghostly visage, on yourself when you go into troll form - and either of these spells wears off, or is dispelled, the claws lose the ability to hit creatures that need magic weapons to hit the moment the spell "skin" comes off.

It's pretty annoying.

ThAnswr

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Re: Troll Claws - Losing the to-hit ability
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 05:29:24 AM »
Here's an annoying problem. It finally got me killed tonight, so I figure it's post-worthy now...

Creatures who need magic weapons to hit can be struck by troll claws, umberhulk claws, etc. I'm assuming this is determined by hit dice.

If you have spells like stoneskin, or ghostly visage, on yourself when you go into troll form - and either of these spells wears off, or is dispelled, the claws lose the ability to hit creatures that need magic weapons to hit the moment the spell "skin" comes off.

It's pretty annoying.


Huh?   :?
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kenpen

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Re: Troll Claws - Losing the to-hit ability
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2008, 05:36:08 AM »
Alright. Do this. Turn into a troll. Go attack something. You can hit creatures that need magical weapons to hit, I'm assuming because of the DnD rule that lets creatures hit other creatures that need magic weapons to hit, based on the hit-dice of the attacking creature. Since you're a creature in troll form, I'm guessing this is why this works. If you're just in regular troll form, it works right forever.

Now, cast stoneskin. Then turn into a troll. The claws will work right. But, if the stoneskin wears off, or is chipped off, all of the sudden your claws will no longer work to hit creatures that require a magical weapon to hit. Same with ethereal visage, or a lot of other spells.

It's really annoying. I'm guessing this has something to do w/ swapping out of skins, and how spells work on skins. I don't really know.

I know I did find my human skin, w/ all it's stats and DP related +/- in my inventory a while later. Though, that's the first time I've ever had that happen.

ThAnswr

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Re: Troll Claws - Losing the to-hit ability
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 05:41:03 AM »
Oh, you're the troll.  Now, it makes sense to me.   :oops:
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kenpen

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Re: Troll Claws - Losing the to-hit ability
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 05:43:26 AM »
Another thought for why this might be happening is the same reason you can't disarm a NPC and take the weapon. If you disarm them, the weapon disappears. It doesn't just go back into their inventory. It goes away entirely. We discovered this one day while I was trying to take the Winterlass off of an NPC.

I believe creature hands are actually weapons, and maybe when the stoneskin or ethereal visage comes off, it drops them into the inventory... and then, it can't rearm them because either it goes into the void like the disarmed weapons, or it goes into a separate inventory box.

Whatever claws you have after the disappearance, don't actually do as much damage as your regular claws either. I think it's reverting to using human fists or something.


kenpen

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Re: Troll Claws - Losing the to-hit ability
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2008, 05:45:45 AM »
And, this should probably be moved to bugs... the more I think about it, it's not really a gameplay balance issue. Delphie! Get over here and move this! :)

ethinos

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Re: Troll Claws - Losing the to-hit ability
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2008, 07:34:21 AM »
I didn't think Troll form worked against +1 without stoneskin on... but I do know that if stoneskin wears off you are stuck swatting things feebly.

Yeah, the DnD PnP rule is that if a critter has DR, it can also hurt other creatures up to that number.
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kenpen

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Re: Troll Claws - Losing the to-hit ability
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2008, 07:40:28 AM »
I'll have to experiment some to see what I can and can't hit with regular troll claws.

If there's a PnP rule about the creature having DR, then that would make complete sense for it to work up to +3 with stoneskin, and all this thread is meaningless since that's the way it's supposed to work. I thought it was based on HD rather than DR though... but, that was probably the old 2nd edition DnD or something. I haven't played PnP DnD for years. Definitely not since 3rd Edition became so popular. :-P

ethinos

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Re: Troll Claws - Losing the to-hit ability
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2008, 07:50:42 AM »
From the SRD 3.x edition. Stoneskin may only grant a +1, not a full +5 though to your natural weapons.

Quote
Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
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failed.bard

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Re: Troll Claws - Losing the to-hit ability
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2008, 07:54:35 AM »
  I noticed the same thing stoneskinning Wilhelm's familiar.  Magical creatures that are given a DR through spell bypass DR based on the level of their spell.

Rex

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Re: Troll Claws - Losing the to-hit ability
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2008, 08:25:38 AM »
The stone skin is what is giving you the bypass DR ability.  In 3.0 and Higher, just having Lot's of HD and Claws doesn't necessarily mean you can bypass DR.  Drop a Dire Tiger on a DR having creature once and watch it do minimal to no damage.

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kenpen

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Re: Troll Claws - Losing the to-hit ability
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2008, 09:12:05 AM »
That's cool.

Still, might need to be checked to make sure you get the DR back if you quaff a stoneskin potion afterward. I think I've tried that before, and it didn't seem to work. Can't remember for sure, tho. Someone should get me a greater stoneskin and a monster w/ nice DR and I'll try it.  ;)