Author Topic: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons  (Read 4111 times)

Ellana Twiggy

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Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« on: July 24, 2008, 12:37:14 AM »
 Alright, I took improved disarm for one reason, the fact that if you are disarming some one while unarmed you can take their weapon. However, i have found it incredibly useless, as half of the weapons that might be of interest cannot be taken from creatures. Is there possibly a way to fix this? If the monster has it and fails their check and gets disarmed by an expert at it there should honestly be no reason why one cannot take it, yes?
If we are going off of a more realistic approach here, unless it is a cursed item.

Honestly, the only thing i have been able to snatch so far are rusty weapons, nothing else seems to be able to have their weapon taken , if they are using a weapon.  I see no reason why if i am fighting a vampire warrior, and actually manage to make a sucessful roll, why i couldn't take their blade and begin pummeling them with their own weapon, just to be a smart a**.  :D

Perhaps there could be a change, if the weapons are too powerful for pc hands, and changed to something we could have if we manage to snatch something, for the few of us who took the feat for practical purposes?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 12:24:45 PM by Delphinidae »

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2008, 12:23:28 PM »
Please use prefixes for reports as suggested here.
http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=2856.msg25669#msg25669

Also try to make topics a little more informative if possible. This should be in the systems or gameplay section:
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 12:25:53 PM by Delphinidae »


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Rex

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2008, 02:35:29 PM »
Alright, I took improved disarm for one reason, the fact that if you are disarming some one while unarmed you can take their weapon. However, i have found it incredibly useless, as half of the weapons that might be of interest cannot be taken from creatures. Is there possibly a way to fix this? If the monster has it and fails their check and gets disarmed by an expert at it there should honestly be no reason why one cannot take it, yes?
If we are going off of a more realistic approach here, unless it is a cursed item.

Honestly, the only thing i have been able to snatch so far are rusty weapons, nothing else seems to be able to have their weapon taken , if they are using a weapon.  I see no reason why if i am fighting a vampire warrior, and actually manage to make a sucessful roll, why i couldn't take their blade and begin pummeling them with their own weapon, just to be a smart a**.  :D

Perhaps there could be a change, if the weapons are too powerful for pc hands, and changed to something we could have if we manage to snatch something, for the few of us who took the feat for practical purposes?

I'm beginning to think that is because the environment is set up so that you can't GET those weapons after you disarm them.  Rusty weapons sure, you can have those.  But the nice +2 thing, they don't want you to have so it either doesn't disarm, OR, gets shunted back into inventory, or is Eaten by the server.

A good and a bad thing actually.


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mayvind

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2008, 03:38:58 PM »
Think how you can misuse this, like tenser and you disarm it you get nice +3 flaming sword. A balor +1 Vorpal-blade  (i want one).
This was the problem in the earlier time which the develop fixed and intend to work as it is now.

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2008, 03:48:31 PM »
Think how you can misuse this, like tenser and you disarm it you get nice +3 flaming sword. A balor +1 Vorpal-blade  (i want one).
This was the problem in the earlier time which the develop fixed and intend to work as it is now.

Right that's why I said Good ('cause you don't want 30 flaming swords running around) and Bad (because on the other hand my fighter would like a fighting chance in the world :D ).

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Arch_Angel00

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2008, 04:10:07 PM »
Think how you can misuse this, like tenser and you disarm it you get nice +3 flaming sword. A balor +1 Vorpal-blade  (i want one).
This was the problem in the earlier time which the develop fixed and intend to work as it is now.

Well I would think it wouldnt matter if you disarmed the sword from the tenser or the balor.  Once the magic that brought them into existance was canceled (ie past duration), the sword would disappear as well as the transformation/balor summon.  Shifter weapons, however, still boggle my mind  :shock:.  Still cant figure out where that shifted minotaur pulls that giant +1 great axe out of.....eww...

Vampires swinging +2 swords, on the other hand, I would think would be obtainable.  They certainly werent summoned by magic into their owner's posession, so shouldnt vanish if they get knocked to the ground.  If the higher-ups dont want to give us a chance of realistically knocking them out of a bad guy's hand and using it agaisnt them, then maybe they shouldnt be put in the bad guy's hand to begin with?  I just keep seeing the word "realism" popping up in posts and thought Id use it for once, too  :D

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2008, 04:16:38 PM »
It's one of the most common issues that you tend to have during DM quests.  Can't begin to count the amount of times I've downed an uber NPC, and then emoted [Loots that guy's badass swords] only to be told that it was way too uber to be given to a PC.

On the flip-side though, if items could be obtained so easily, it would be troublesome, so... Hard to decide what's important.  I think imp disarm should at least keep the weapon out of their hands, thus lowering their threat.

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2008, 04:33:14 PM »
It's one of the most common issues that you tend to have during DM quests.  Can't begin to count the amount of times I've downed an uber NPC, and then emoted [Loots that guy's badass swords] only to be told that it was way too uber to be given to a PC.

Then the question is, how did the bad guy get such a powerful sword to begin with, and why cant PCs do the same thing to obtain it?  If a PC managed to create some uber magic sword, Im sure that if an NPC Improved Disarmed the PC that the weapon would go flying.


And you dont have to make the weapons easily obtainable.  If it truly is a uber sword of server death, make it a 1 time drop from a 1 time bad guy, and then have it be cursed up the wazoo, since the NPC had to sell his soul and his mother's to get it in the first place  :twisted:

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2008, 04:38:15 PM »
What you're suggesting are DM quest only items. The reason you don't get those super weapons is balance. The standard enchantment in this server is +1. Getting a +2 enchantment item is already something incredibly rare in a dungeon drop, usually they're from DM quests. To be honest, I'd go without getting those super enemy weapons with any disarm. I just RP the Dark Powers took it, it desintagrated, the mists took it or whatever.


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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2008, 04:40:10 PM »
Right what you would have to then deal with, is people summoning up a skeletal chieftain, then having Disarm Dave, swipe a +2 or greater Two Handed Sword from the summon.  It just get's messy even if it is a one time drop deal, the grinder farmers would have a field day.  Also, the standard enchantment on this server is a +1 AB, not even a real +1.  Lately we are lucky to even see that, instead getting a +1 AB vs one thing.

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Ellana Twiggy

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2008, 05:59:50 PM »
*Reads some nodding*
I of course can understand not getting uber gear, not needed. Just asking that if they have something which isn't over powered to be able to snatch it. 
Summons of course, no brainer, no one is going to jack their summons weapon.  But as far as basic spawns, why not if its just a long sword, or steel long sword, etc and so on.  If a +1 bastard sword or long sword is so plentiful for a vampire, and one is fighting 5 + of them, is there not a chance that atleast one of the weapons might be salvagable? perhaps there is a way to make it a chance thing?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 06:56:51 AM by Ellana Twiggy »

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2008, 06:02:32 PM »
*Reads some nodding*
I of course can understand not getting uber gear, not needed. Just asking that if they have something which isn't over powered to be able to snatch it. 
Summons of course, no brainer, no one is going to jack their summons weapon.  But as far as basic spawns, why not if its just a long sword, or steel long sword, etc and so on.  If a +1 bastard sword or long sword is so plentiful for a vampire, and one is fighting 5 + of them, is there not a chance that atleast one of the weapons might be salvagable? perhaps there is a way to make it a change thing?

I say, make the creature weapons recoverable, then set the creatures up to loot your corpse if they kill you.  Fairs Fair right.  :D


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darkravenkin

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2008, 07:20:43 PM »
I agree. I like using disarm to knock a skeleton warriors weapon away. But also, undead seem to be the only bodies we can loot the bodies for weapons and armor. If the vampires, thoul, hobgoblins or what ever creature is built to have armor then it should drop.

If there's a worry about it unbalancing the game then wouldn't the monsters having them be an unbalance. I hear so many talk about realism, well if when we die and we drop our shield, weapon and gold. Isn't it realistic that a thing using a weapon would also drop his too.

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Ellana Twiggy

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2008, 06:58:34 AM »
i could see creatures looting one's corpse. Don't even have a problem with it, seen in on another server as well, but if you kill the creature you can get your things back.

I think it would be quite fair, if a bit more dificult at times, maybe even more interesting.

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2008, 07:23:43 AM »
I'm still going to go take the Winterlass away from Fritz one day.

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2008, 11:06:10 AM »
i could see creatures looting one's corpse. Don't even have a problem with it, seen in on another server as well, but if you kill the creature you can get your things back.

I think it would be quite fair, if a bit more dificult at times, maybe even more interesting.

Yeah it was pretty much a standard set up on one of the more popular AI's used by a few of the hardcore servers out there.

To get back to the Whips (Which is in another thread but DOES pretain to disarm.
 though, I wonder if it's possible to Add IMPROVED Disarm, to the whips as a whole.  That right there would bring them up to being useful again.

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« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 11:10:38 AM by Rex »
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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2008, 11:16:07 AM »
Well, I happen to have VARIKOV'S CROSSBOW if anybody wants to see it.

And it says 'Varikov's crossbow' too!
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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2008, 12:13:44 PM »
My few though still remains that if a creature is USING something on you, it should abide by the same set up you do.  Quid Pro Quo.

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2008, 05:43:48 PM »
I agree. I like using disarm to knock a skeleton warriors weapon away. But also, undead seem to be the only bodies we can loot the bodies for weapons and armor. If the vampires, thoul, hobgoblins or what ever creature is built to have armor then it should drop.

If there's a worry about it unbalancing the game then wouldn't the monsters having them be an unbalance. I hear so many talk about realism, well if when we die and we drop our shield, weapon and gold. Isn't it realistic that a thing using a weapon would also drop his too.

Yes, kind of, but I can see the end result (if that ever came into play) that the devs would just remove the enemies that wear armor and use weapons and replace them with animals so they wouldn't have to worry about it.  That would be boring.

P.S. Weapons, I can understand, but Hobgoblins are fat and I doubt we could fit in their armors.

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2008, 05:58:55 PM »
I agree. I like using disarm to knock a skeleton warriors weapon away. But also, undead seem to be the only bodies we can loot the bodies for weapons and armor. If the vampires, thoul, hobgoblins or what ever creature is built to have armor then it should drop.

If there's a worry about it unbalancing the game then wouldn't the monsters having them be an unbalance. I hear so many talk about realism, well if when we die and we drop our shield, weapon and gold. Isn't it realistic that a thing using a weapon would also drop his too.

Yes, kind of, but I can see the end result (if that ever came into play) that the devs would just remove the enemies that wear armor and use weapons and replace them with animals so they wouldn't have to worry about it.  That would be boring.

P.S. Weapons, I can understand, but Hobgoblins are fat and I doubt we could fit in their armors.

Hobgoblins are terrifying opponents if actually structured correctly.  Always feel let down by the Hobgoblins here.  You can set it up however, that disarm gives you a Mundane item/gear from the monster.  Not sure how but seen it.  Gives you something to sell for cash at least.

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boompowclash

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Re: Feats - Improved Disarm and obtaining creature weapons
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2008, 06:16:01 PM »
There is a definite inconsistency on the matter of something hitting the ground when you disarm an opponent some times and not other times.

The other inconsistency lies in having monsters possess magical items that are deemed unsuitable for the campaign.  My suggestion, would be to put items that players Can have in the hands of the monsters they face.  Steel weapons, +1ab weapons, are all good choices.

Then the monsters that do really need a +3 longsword for the challenge level of the dungeon? (Such as the Vampire Warriors in the Crypt under Mt. Baratak)  Have their Vampire Priest buddies cast GMW on them and they can go to town just the same.

Perhaps NPCs should benefit from "Buffs" on their items that are lost once a PC obtains them?  Just ideas here...  :mrgreen:

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