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Author Topic: Deprived Newbies  (Read 3144 times)

Ric

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Deprived Newbies
« on: July 13, 2008, 02:30:14 PM »
As everyone's aware, a lot of items (not talking about potions) have been removed from shops, which were previously available for characters to buy.  These items include stealth bonus items, spot bonus items, and many other things.

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Shadow armor, nearly all the Degannwy gear, etc.


Now, from what I understand, the reason they were taken out is becuase the craft system intends to impliment these sort of items, so that players can make them instead of relying on NPCs.  That's great, but my concern is:  Why did we remove the old items without implimenting the new ones at the same time?  As of right this moment, if you make a rogue character, you can't even get your hands on any sneak gear other than +1 hide hoods and +1 move silent boots.  I've had a newbie send me a tell recently saying "Where are people getting all these items with stealth and spot, becuase I'm not finding anything but garbage in the shops, and people told me to check the shops."  I said "They took them out, waiting for new stuff to be implimented."  Player's response?  See the bolded text above.

It's too late to add the old gear now since we're in the process of waiting for new craftable gear, but can we please avoid this sort of issue next time by having the old taken and new added at the same time?  It would definetely reduce the problem of players feeling like they had to be old players to get good gear, and are therefore shafted if they're new players.

Rex

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2008, 02:35:08 PM »
One of the things I pointed out in many Item removal threads is that I don't Understand this servers reasons for removing something before the replacement is implemented.  Especially when it looks to be weeks or months down the road from being implemented.  We're losing good new players simply because of things like this, and the crappy Loot and XP.  People like to be productive, not be chained to one itty bitty spot, stuck in chat room mode.

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ThAnswr

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2008, 02:54:00 PM »
Kudos to both Ric and Rex.   :clap:

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penny

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2008, 04:42:46 PM »
Seconded, thirded, and fourthed. :)
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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2008, 05:19:31 PM »
  When was the gear removed from Degannwy?  Last night when I had checked the items were there from my understanding, the only items I didn't see there from when I first started here was the druid armor.  Was more removed since the last night?

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2008, 05:20:29 PM »
There's no bows (not even generic) nor enchanted armor either.

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2008, 05:30:05 PM »
There's no bows (not even generic) nor enchanted armor either.

Nope, not a bow.  That means some newbie better coordinate their schedule with the bowmakers or they're SOL. 
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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2008, 06:23:27 PM »
Mm.

Its good to have some feedback on this. What I know is that we should give this just another week or two to see how things goes. Developpers and DM's are working behind the scenes for the new players to get all set for something that will have players being able to acquire gear through Pc's hopefully near the hub. This is plot and development related.


Ric

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2008, 06:27:05 PM »
Yeah, that was the idea behind the removal, to replace with player-made material.  That's great, but I just hope that we can get the new stuff in before new players start thinking they're gone for good.  Since not everyone browses the forums like us scary PotM-dwellers.

Rex

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2008, 06:36:39 PM »
Mm.

Its good to have some feedback on this. What I know is that we should give this just another week or two to see how things goes. Developpers and DM's are working behind the scenes for the new players to get all set for something that will have players being able to acquire gear through Pc's hopefully near the hub. This is plot and development related.



Which is all well and good but why remove Everything BEFORE the replacement was implemented?  Up until this actually occurs something needs to be put in the New Player start area, to inform newbies o this as well.  Makes it a touch easier.  Also, along those lines, Start the darn monks off with more then 20 gp so they can buy a freaking set of warm something or other so if they happen to log in during winter, they're not dead 3 steps away from the Vistani Camp.

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2008, 06:38:35 PM »
Chill...out...?

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2008, 07:19:40 PM »
Start the darn monks off with more then 20 gp so they can buy a freaking set of warm something or other so if they happen to log in during winter, they're not dead 3 steps away from the Vistani Camp.

~Rex


Way ahead of you there. ;) We redid the new players area already.

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2008, 09:06:32 PM »
isnt it always a plot behind the scene? not always wait 2 weeks?

i agree removing stuff befor replacing it, is kind of mhmmmm less smart to say it in a  good way.


now on a difrant note   sneakers need extra gear?   yet the none sneakers and such just have to make do with what little they have?

somehow this does even the scales    casters are uber here so are sneakers.      i like to see what i need to hit  :mrgreen:   

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2008, 09:32:56 PM »
Start the darn monks off with more then 20 gp so they can buy a freaking set of warm something or other so if they happen to log in during winter, they're not dead 3 steps away from the Vistani Camp.

~Rex


Way ahead of you there. ;) We redid the new players area already.

Kick Ass.  Haven't made a new PC in awhile so wasn't sure.  Hopefully I stop tripping over dead monks in the winter time now.

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penny

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2008, 11:07:09 PM »
casters are uber here so are sneakers. 

How are sneaks uber? Practically every monster is sneak immune, so the only use for them is unlocking stuff and disabling traps.. Which is fine, but I definitely wouldn't call them uber. The fact that they can sneak doesn't make them uber; you can just hit the + button next spot or listen when you level up. Congrats, you can now beat the "uber" sneakers. The rogues have d6 hp, more than easy enough to cleave through in a few hits.

I'm not saying they suck, but to say they're "uber" is an extreme overstatement.
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Rex

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2008, 12:33:30 AM »
casters are uber here so are sneakers.

How are sneaks uber? Practically every monster is sneak immune, so the only use for them is unlocking stuff and disabling traps.. Which is fine, but I definitely wouldn't call them uber. The fact that they can sneak doesn't make them uber; you can just hit the + button next spot or listen when you level up. Congrats, you can now beat the "uber" sneakers. The rogues have d6 hp, more than easy enough to cleave through in a few hits.

I'm not saying they suck, but to say they're "uber" is an extreme overstatement.

Not really.  The Environment, is geared, towards Casters, then sneaks, then demi casters, then finally at the bottom of the food chain, the fighter.  It's all about the gear and until recently the sneaks had the gear.  Also, yes people can use your method to catch up to the sneaks.  Provided you are a Class that has the skill points to toss in those skills in huge amounts to beat the sneaks on the race (which usually means, it's a sneak class).

The only sneak immune monster I have run into is an Ooze.  Just about everything else my Sneak can shuffle past and He's not even a GOOD sneak.  More of a Trap Guy.  Of course, if you are a Pick Pocket type sneak or a Trap guy the rest of the Uber Sneaks (Those are the guys that like to stand out in the open between two people like the invisible man and send those folks tells crowing about how uber sneaky they are) tend not to want anything to do with those guys because well, not uber enough.

As for hitting the rogue.  Let's see.  Otto's pretty good with a sword.  Like +17 AB on the first hit.  That means he misses half the monsters equal to his CR half the time.  But if he hits, he lands a solid amount of damage.  My Sneak, is half Otto's level, Hits as Hard without sneak attack, and more then three times as hard with it.  The Crits aren't even comparable.  Otto's Max damage from a Crit (we'll give him a steel bastard sword for this) is like, 44.  The Sneaks, 74 with one weapon, 102 with the other.  That Sneak can hit Otto's non Turtled AC (proper sneak attack planning does nasty things to AC's).  Otto goes to swing back the sneak disengages from combat, stealths, then comes back for another Sneak attack alpha strike.  The Sneaks AC isn't stellar like a few of the others I know (seen ranges from 39 to 50), So if Otto is lucky, the sneak could be in for a world of hurt, but that sneak is tough enough to take a hit or two and run like hell, leading Otto across a pile of Traps that Otto even with his 10 levels of spot, can't see.

That's where Sneaks are Uber comes from.

Now with the gear being flushed, It's not really an issue until about 8th level.  Removing the gear has put the 2-5th level sneaks on a more equal playing field, but that gear is going to come back.  With that, even more Uber sneaks.  Further explanation to be moved to another thread.

As for the starting area now, I'll have to make a New PC and hop in to take a look at the differences I suppose.

~Rex


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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2008, 01:07:08 AM »
It's all about the gear and until recently the sneaks had the gear.  Also, yes people can use your method to catch up to the sneaks.  Provided you are a Class that has the skill points to toss in those skills in huge amounts to beat the sneaks on the race (which usually means, it's a sneak class).

Classes with Listen:  arcane archer, assassin, barbarian, bard, dwarven defender, harper scout, monk, pale master, ranger, red dragon disciple, rogue, shadowdancer, shifter, weapon master

Classes with Spot: Arcane Archer, assassin, champion of Torm, Dwarven Defender, red dragon disciple, shadowdancer, ranger, rogue, shifter, Weapon Master

Sounds like plenty of coices to me. Fighters don't get listen you say? Well if you insist it's a weak point, take weapon master. Or Barbarian. Or Dwarven Defender(if you're a dwarf)

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The only sneak immune monster I have run into is an Ooze.


Ahh well I guess Ravenloft doesn't have alot of undead then eh? :D

74? 104? Christ, that must be one uber powerbuild you're playing, because no rogue I've ever seen on this server.. in fact, no non-caster I've ever seen has gotten damage that high.
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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2008, 01:16:20 AM »
Dribo can do over 60 on a sneak attack, unbuffed, and she's rogue 8 only.

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2008, 01:31:50 AM »
I honestly want to know, is there some sort of uber weapon I'm missing out on? :shock:
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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2008, 01:38:56 AM »
It's derailing too much. Perhaps another thread for this topic, although I've seen it pop up again and again. Thread was about the recent changes in the merchant shops affecting new characters and players.


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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2008, 02:39:55 AM »
It's all about the gear and until recently the sneaks had the gear.  Also, yes people can use your method to catch up to the sneaks.  Provided you are a Class that has the skill points to toss in those skills in huge amounts to beat the sneaks on the race (which usually means, it's a sneak class).

Classes with Listen:  arcane archer, assassin, barbarian, bard, dwarven defender, harper scout, monk, pale master, ranger, red dragon disciple, rogue, shadowdancer, shifter, weapon master

Classes with Spot: Arcane Archer, assassin, champion of Torm, Dwarven Defender, red dragon disciple, shadowdancer, ranger, rogue, shifter, Weapon Master

Sounds like plenty of coices to me. Fighters don't get listen you say? Well if you insist it's a weak point, take weapon master. Or Barbarian. Or Dwarven Defender(if you're a dwarf)

Quote
The only sneak immune monster I have run into is an Ooze.


Ahh well I guess Ravenloft doesn't have alot of undead then eh? :D

74? 104? Christ, that must be one uber powerbuild you're playing, because no rogue I've ever seen on this server.. in fact, no non-caster I've ever seen has gotten damage that high.

I think Yoshinaka can get in the 70s for damage. :)

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Re: Deprived Newbies
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2008, 03:11:44 AM »
Wow, this got off topic fast. This has been beaten to death btw. Someone can come in behind me and undo it if they want, but for now i'm gonna go with my gut and lock this so people can cool their fingers.