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Author Topic: healing available -feedback  (Read 8875 times)

Nefensis

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healing available -feedback
« on: July 07, 2008, 09:31:34 PM »
A few days into the new changes, no more potions available in stores, no more dwarven armor and weapons or elven bows and armors.

The lost of most of the potions and of the weapons and armors isnt too terrible, it's actually helping a lot the crafters. Thumbs up.

The lack of healing in the form of potion is painful to the people that adventure. Clerics and other healers usually keep their slots for buffs.

As the major potion distributor, i can say without a doubt that i cannot provide for half the server with the potions i receive from my crafters. Personally i can blow through as much as 20 medium wound potions into a dungeon, because they used to be so widely available but now it's down to none or so. And that is a problem.

I saw Mad Dok dosn't sell his potions either, without a crafter in the drain, it becomes very very limited where the outcasts can get any kind of potion supplies. The NPC still dosn't even raise unless a dm is present, dosn't cure disease or cure level drain either.  They have to tempt the devil by going to the church of the Morninglord.

I believe cure light wounds and cure medium wounds should be still available in certain stores, leave Mad Dok with his old brews and it would be easier for everyone. People still bought the healing potions from me while they were available in the stores.

FYI : Now i really didn't post this feedback to get comments on how i should handle or plan ahead my resources while in dungeons. These are observations made simply by roleplaying my merchant. When an NPC approached me, i could barely give him 5 potions of cure light wound, because that's all i had. And i have 3 providers of potions.


-edited to correct a detail
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 10:12:55 PM by Nefensis »

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2008, 10:13:33 PM »
one thing i'd like to see if herbalism crafters able to make insta heal kits! ala mad dok like i dont understand why mad dok can fashion those but an herbalist cant make them....

Helaman

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2008, 10:16:39 PM »
I agree this is one instance where 'reality' is hurting the game experience.

Not everyone has access to a friendly healer... and the morninglord cyrpts are something I feel guilty about as I raid for potions.

No healing potions = death. With the new rest system you get ONE shot every 6-12 minutes to heal... meaning that if healing reserves are stretched and you hit a bad run of luck you will need to pull out or wait 2 to 3 healing periods to continue... in once sense, cool... in another? that could suck.

Also while I am in a way supportive of some of the nifty store stuff going, will they find their way into loot tables? Or be lost to the mists?

Because I haven't seen ironwood armours or DeSzeo's (the trap armour) drop EVER.

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2008, 10:27:56 PM »
There are other NPC's that can give you healing potions, more potent ones than the morninglord ones.

Won't spoil it more.

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2008, 10:36:44 PM »
I could have sworn I saw a cauldron in the Drain. *shrugs*

Chrisman888

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2008, 10:47:30 PM »
lol I start to just hide (scared to be injuryed) , when in dungeons with people.. hardly helping.


Then again im undead... see where you can find potions for that  ;).

Nefensis

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2008, 10:49:31 PM »
There are other NPC's that can give you healing potions, more potent ones than the morninglord ones.

Won't spoil it more.

Another potion that requires a farming of some sort to get some healing potions, at lvl 12 i don't go farm the crypt so i can get access to some potions. Those should be reserved for low levels, then again those stronger potions available, requires some potions of their own to aquire the material to get to them. It's a vicious circle.

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2008, 10:56:08 PM »
There is a cauldron in the Drain, but it is of very limited use for three reasons.

A: There needs to be someone who USES the cauldron. We currently have only one PC Caliban that does that.

B: There has to be enough ingredients to make a quantity of potions large enough to satisfy the demand, which there isn't.

C: Players will only devote so much time to crafting. They want to RP too, they are not just endless potion machines.

This is all very limiting on the availability of any type of potion nowadays.

Personally, I say remove the higher end potions, sure, but leave the ones up to Cure Moderate wounds, at least, so that people hace some recourse in lieu of finding a crafter.
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Nefensis

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2008, 10:58:03 PM »
The Drain crafter is on break, the new systems are demoralizing. Another thing to point out, we cant always rely on PCs to be around to fulfill our needs.

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2008, 11:09:28 PM »
I think some time needs to be given first to this.  If an in game shortage of healing supplies begin to effect most characters, then lets see what characters working together can do about it.  An ingame plan could be made involving a few of the cooperative factions, towards the gathering of healing ingredients and the brewing of. 


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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2008, 11:13:08 PM »
What I don't understand is that back when we were discussing the idea of PC mules for storage, the common agreement from the devs was that we didn't want to put reliance on PC, since that would become a problem if the PCs lost interest.

How is that different from the current setup we have?  Right now, if all PC crafters stopped playing, we'd lose our ability to get healing and equipment.

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2008, 11:15:09 PM »
The Drain crafter is on break, the new systems are demoralizing. Another thing to point out, we cant always rely on PCs to be around to fulfill our needs.
Yeah - always been a problem that...

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2008, 11:24:05 PM »
I think pc crafters will come together then, based to some fun role playing involving a lack of healing supplies, and these herbalist for example, could be healers and such from various factions, working together using their faction resources and strengths towards ensuring that healing is provided to those in need.

If Nelll is informed of a healing potion shortage, she might reach out to other herbalist, to the Cult of the Morninglord, and see if a group effort to provide the healing can be made. 

This change might taste sour at first, but there is at least some positive role playing that can result.

Conflict brings characters together.  Healing supplies, a serious lack of, can be a conflict that brings many together.

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2008, 12:00:26 AM »
Issue handled easily if you would get a potion of cure light wounds instead of a cloth belt, a potion of cure moderate instead of a tarnished wedding band, etc etc etc.....

Honestly though.  I play a gimpy fighter.  I can get into two Dungeons maybe three if I'm lucky.  Got no gear to speak of, and yet, I can find another non caster to trade and buy a few potions from, and I am never in a situation where I need 30 something potions to complete a goal.  If you are in that situation you are someplace you should not be.

While a touch annoyed at the practice of Removing stuff before implementing the replacement (To me this is sort of like coming out with a new brand of tire, so to prepare, people go steal all the wheels off your car, leaving you on blocks for a month before the tire shipment arrives), I'm actually MORE affluent in potions now, then I was when you could go buy them.  So many people selling them (though most need to take an economics class or 6 so they can understand marketing and margins), Otto actually turns people away.

Play smarter, don't be running around with the "Beer Hat" on so you can swill down potions like an extra in the movie Beer Fest, and not being able to buy the potions from a store becomes a non issue.  Speaking for a few others (hmmm funny, all non casters non sneaks), we're actually getting along quite well.  People wouldn't need so many potions if they weren't all out trying to swim in the deep end before they are qualified to dog paddle (Check some of the screen shots lately.  17th level, 18th level, 15th level, Wait....there they are, two or three 6th to 8th level people tagging along.  Or worse, a 2nd.).

Right now it's at about that point where the lightweights are getting annoyed with the crafting, the herd is thinning so to speak which is a good thing since that will open the door to those more seriously interested in it.

Hell combined with the new rest system, I actually do Better, since I play a lot smarter now.  Still don't know what people are crying about in regards to the rest system, if you time your crawls right, you can actually rest more often without having to run for the nearest tavern.  I don't think the new systems are demoralizing at all.  Being a gearless Fighter in a server of Sneaks with more Sneak then Mask, and Casters that One shot Pit Fiends is demoralizing.  Having to actually work at a trade that's basically, insanely cheap, with a captured audience later to sell the stuff to, seems like a pretty good deal.

Yeah there is a cauldron in the drain, actually considered using it with one of my Ban's but there are IC reasons for that PC as to why I'm not doing it.  May change soon though.  Still waiting for some rebuild/move stuff from the DM's so I can ditch feats and skills that are no longer in use by the server.  Not like any other 'Ban can step up and give it a go I suppose.

The root complaint in this thread seems to me to be more related to MONEY, is Easy to Get, and it was EASIER, to Buy 50 billion gallons of Potions, then it is to Find a crafter or craft it themselves.  Have to say, I don't really miss those potions since really, couldn't get them at those places anyway and when I bought a potion, it was usually something from Bervis.

Uping Potions as Treasure though, would take up this slack everyone keeps talking about. 

Last word, Up to me I'd make it more difficult to weed out all the wimps.  But then I would also make casters Use components so they don't spam spells with multi thousand GP value gem's as a power source.  Over all I think the crafting system is on the right track but then I am used to a PC driven economy.  It's not that difficult.

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ThAnswr

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2008, 01:04:19 AM »
I'll cut right through the BS:  With all the stuff that's been removed from the stores, the loot drops that are a joke, etc., the only RP being generated is sleep.  The game has become a snooze fest. 

I don't see anyone at Murnu's or at the Degannwy merchant anymore.  There was a time when you could run into 3 or 4 chars and shoot the breeze while browsing their goods.  No more because there's nothing to buy.  How many plots were furthered there?  How much information was passed along as gossip and converstaion.  That RP just didn't matter or was it the wrong kind of RP? 

Quite honestly, in my line of work I often see things that have me shaking my head while saying to myself "what the hell were they thinking"?  These recent changes are one of those times.  I haven't heard one person say "wow these changes are great and really add to the game".  The only thing I'm hearing from most (not all) is that they're bored. 

And for those who love the changes because it adds to their "immersion" and sense of "realism", heres'a dose of reality:  This is a fictitious story, in a fictitious place, with fictitious characters.  Yes, I really do understand the game in that it is supposed to be entertainment.

However, for those who do need their reality in this setting, they could've played their game with or without potions/weapons/scrolls if they so chose without impacting anyone else's game.  Anyone could've played this game bare butt and without weapons if they wanted to and could take a squat in the bushes when the need arose.   No  need for a gamewide change or any pontificating how someone else should be playing their game or which crafter should make it a full time job.   

This latest round of changes has only added to the frustration of new players who can't get healed, older players who've figured out there's no loot to be had out there so why bother gathering a party for an adventure and the general population that has nothng to buy/browse/equipment to dream about/etc.  When healing and the pursuit of healing becomes a major endeavor, something is out of whack. 

Btw,  It's the little things that make life interesting both ingame and in RL and not some grand scheme of "what's supposed to be".  Folks are always saying that players should drive the game.  Good idea:  Let's start by having players decide if they want to buy something, craft something, hunt something and stop shoveling people into a certain style of approved play.    
« Last Edit: July 08, 2008, 01:10:07 AM by ThAnswr »
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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2008, 02:03:08 AM »
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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2008, 02:06:23 AM »
Lets limit ourselfs to constructive forms of feedback.  We should not expect the Developer's not to experiment with new systems.   It is how the process works, when a community or server is thriving.  Things change.  Give some time to experience these changes, and see what comes of it.  The feedback will then help the Dev Team determine what further changes may be best to help improve the role playing experience.  


Chrisman888

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2008, 02:17:03 AM »
Uh.. one question. If it effects the playerbase, if it is for the playerbase. If it is the playerbase who is going to be the ones enjoying/unenjoying there time with it.


Why wasn't there some sort of toll, or survery to send PM's to someone, on what all the community thinks if this dramatic change comes into play?

Unless there was and  I just missed it then, I retract everything I just said.

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2008, 02:41:25 AM »
Let's point this thread out to the Dev team and wait. Rome wasnt built in one day.

To continue the conversation (everything but potions) -> http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=11956.0

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2008, 02:55:48 AM »
Speaking for myself, I don't think a poll was necessary.  The process is that the Development team work together on giving shape to the module.  Some ideas will work, some won't.  What makes a good developer is that they're able to process the feedback we give them, towards making the changes.

Developers come up with ideas together, they then give their time to work on it, and then they implemenet it.  They do take care and use forethought in the process.  They also understand that some develpments will always anger a segment of the community, being that that is the nature of things within any community of diverse perspectives.


So all that we really need now is to give these changes some time to breath, then provide feedback that will help the Developers.  That is the player bases' role in the process.  I think many can think of a time when something in the game was changed, and before we even tried it, we made up our minds, but then eventually came to appreciate and accep thte changes.  While at other times, some of the changes required more revision, or reverting back to a previous setup.  That is how the cookie crumbles.  

Direct some energy to finding the rp potential that can result from needing to rely more on player interaction for healing than npcs.  At this point, I'm not even arguing one way or the other.  All I'm saying is that give things a try, and then let the feedback, not the ranting, but the constructive feedback have it's place in the process of revision.





 


ThAnswr

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2008, 03:26:19 AM »
Speaking for myself, I don't think a poll was necessary.  The process is that the Development team work together on giving shape to the module.  Some ideas will work, some won't.  What makes a good developer is that they're able to process the feedback we give them, towards making the changes.

Developers come up with ideas together, they then give their time to work on it, and then they implemenet it.  They do take care and use forethought in the process.  They also understand that some develpments will always anger a segment of the community, being that that is the nature of things within any community of diverse perspectives.


So all that we really need now is to give these changes some time to breath, then provide feedback that will help the Developers.  That is the player bases' role in the process.  I think many can think of a time when something in the game was changed, and before we even tried it, we made up our minds, but then eventually came to appreciate and accep thte changes.  While at other times, some of the changes required more revision, or reverting back to a previous setup.  That is how the cookie crumbles.  

Direct some energy to finding the rp potential that can result from needing to rely more on player interaction for healing than npcs.  At this point, I'm not even arguing one way or the other.  All I'm saying is that give things a try, and then let the feedback, not the ranting, but the constructive feedback have it's place in the process of revision.



FYI, my post is feedback. It's spelling out what many in the player base are saying. 
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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2008, 12:21:42 PM »
One thing I'm going to point out for reflection's sake, is that while none of my characters had yet been told or made aware of a possible shortage in healing supplies, the possible ic lack of healing supplies was given ooc focus instead of ic focus.

Now if a concentrated group effort and rp effort in game is made to provide the healing supplies, and it turns that there there isn't enough healing still, then we can look for solutions.

One idea would be to provide more ingredients for the stronger healing potions so as to make them more plentify, that is if it turns out that the current offerings are too skim. 

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2008, 10:11:14 PM »
Clerics and other healers usually keep their slots for buffs.

You know, I've always found this to be rather contrary to the premise of a "healer" type character. :?
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Nefensis

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2008, 10:32:23 PM »
Clerics and other healers usually keep their slots for buffs.

You know, I've always found this to be rather contrary to the premise of a "healer" type character. :?

Clerics don't all heal, Tempus and Sharess etc. Not as their primary function.

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Re: healing available -feedback
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2008, 11:20:34 PM »
Clerics and other healers usually keep their slots for buffs.

You know, I've always found this to be rather contrary to the premise of a "healer" type character. :?

Clerics don't all heal, Tempus and Sharess etc. Not as their primary function.

Clerics are intended as support characters.  Their Primary Function, according to Game design, is to HEAL the Party, Followed closely by Dealing with Undead, and Providing Buff Support.

Even Clerics of Tempus and Sharess, can bring back the dead, heal the wounded and cure the sick.  Now weather or not it's something their Dogma ADVOCATES, that's different, and is defined by the Domain powers.  For example, in the Greyhawk Setting, Pelor, is the ONLY God, with the Healing Domain.  Healing is a Forte of his Clerics.  Yet, ALL clerics CAN heal, Pelors just does it BETTER.

In THIS particular environment, Clerics are not really healers.  Due to the structure of the behind the scenes elements of the server, the Cleric and Mage types are the Front Line troops, so therefore, they reserve their slots for the Buffs they need to approach the one thing the Fighter and the Barbarian have going for them.  AB and sometimes depending on the feats, AC.  Mostly though it's all about the Buffs.

When a Cleric steps back into the support roll (As I have shown with both Bela and Volstagg to a few parties), a Party is Nigh Unstoppable.  You don't end up having to chug 40 potions in an encounter, or using 23 raise dead scrolls, because the cleric is actually doing what he is structured to do.  It's not that hard, when your doing it right. 

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