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Author Topic: Not buff for crafting  (Read 5917 times)

k_moustakas

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2008, 06:31:52 AM »
For some reason, I'm very worried after Rex's comment.

Rex actually LIKED something? Backup all our characters somewhere!!!

The only thing I can comment on is: I had a tanner, and used to ultra buff him, and he became very good very fast. It still took me a great amount of time
though. And in the end I decided even that wasn't worth it, seeing as how I lost all the levels in a remake and I couldn't care less.

But I also think the new system is better. I like how if you do one thing over and over, you become really good at it.

And yeah: backgrounds, skill points, something should be there to help.
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Amon-Si

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2008, 07:09:18 AM »
Here's something curious I found.
Gilding = int + con, right?
DC for gilding anything is 20, right?
So, take the -5 into account
unless you have a total combined int and con bonus of +5 it is impossible to succeed (at level 1 CR). Each failure costs 300 odd fang and is worth 5 CXP.

I can only say... Ouch. For Rane (con+int = 3 which is not terrible for a cleric who was designed to be a generalist) to even have a 5% success chance she needs 2 craft levels (technically one, since the first is free)
That means 200 failed attempts. Guaranteed. That's 60,000 fang.

Just putting it out there. If you ever want to gild get yourself 18 con and 18 Intel (+8, 20% chance of success at CR level 1) or it's going to take RL years.
Yes, it has pretty much crippled my chars plans and RP.
Needless to say, even thinking of gilding saps the fun from my very soul right now. Yes, I am going to keep smithing. No, I'm not going to gild. Yes, I may find someone to do the gilding for me and have Rane starve to death in a street somewhere... actually... *makes a note of that plot line* Anyway.

Rant of bitterness over.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 07:11:22 AM by Amon-Si »

Bad_Bud

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2008, 07:11:16 AM »
//So bitter to even blow Sedrik off!


failed.bard

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2008, 07:26:51 AM »
My dwarf paladin had been learning to smith without buffs, even without these changes.  Losing the buffs will drop Wilhelm backa little because he'll fail a little more on the steel armours he's making, but since he's not onto half and full plates yet the failures are all cheap.

  Logging out in Dvergeheim with 500 pounds of steel ore before the changes will make the trip to vallaki more interesting though.

deDani

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2008, 10:58:07 AM »
Think it's a step in the good direction. Although it might need some revision. For example the silver gilding is probably too hard now, as there are very few characters with high int/con. A good idea might be some in-game recipes ect, maybe handed out by DMs after proper rp with master artisans (npc/pc) that a give small bonus to some of the crafts that suffer.

Keeping buffs out of the process is a good one. Maybe it makes crafting harder, but it also makes much sense, to me at least.
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Ric

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2008, 11:01:42 AM »
The logic doesn't make sense.  If you buff someone's strength, they can carry more and do more damage, but they're hammer to an anvil does not change.

~

If we have to keep things like this though, there needs to be something to counter-balance.  Skills/Feats/Tools.

failed.bard

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2008, 11:12:53 AM »
  Buff durations, even extended, are far less than the time needed to realistically make many of the items, and some of the buffing that was being done was of the sort that would have been entirely counter-productive, like Rex's oft mention rage fuelled smelting.  It's a small inconvenience, but only sets you back 3-4 days if you're serious about the craft you're doing.

Ric

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2008, 02:57:18 PM »
Well now you're contradicting yourself.  If we're trying to go for "Realism", then why are all the craft process done so quickly?  You're saying that if I take a level 10 caster and use extended buffs (26 minutes), it's less time than it would take to craft items realistically, except that in 26 minutes, my herbalist could make 50+ potions, and I know blacksmiths could have a full batch of smelted goods in that time limit as well.

If you want to do 'realism', then you'd have to make crafting times last a hell of a lot longer than they currently do.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 03:02:58 PM by Ric »

Unana / Rapsutin

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2008, 03:10:51 PM »
Well Im not sure if one can talk about realism and NWN in the same sentence anyway...  :ontome:

ethinos

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2008, 08:12:33 PM »
The logic doesn't make sense.  If you buff someone's strength, they can carry more and do more damage, but they're hammer to an anvil does not change.

Saying one blacksmith is stronger than another, and that makes him a better blacksmith is also silly. In crafts, experience and natural talent play a bigger role that the person's attributes. Besides, after you get past level 15 or so in any craft, your crafting levels start becoming a bigger factor than your attributes anyways in the successful completion of goods.

Torgan's smithing is in the mid-high 40s. His +5 from his attributes is almost meaningless at that point.
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Rex

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2008, 08:52:03 PM »
The logic doesn't make sense.  If you buff someone's strength, they can carry more and do more damage, but they're hammer to an anvil does not change.

~

If we have to keep things like this though, there needs to be something to counter-balance.  Skills/Feats/Tools.

DnD people bring that up all the time.  Ask ANY real metal worker, especially those still in the trade of blades.  It has NOTHING, to do with how hard you Hit a piece of Work, it's in How, and what.  To Much Power can easily destroy even a Horse Shoe fitting much less a Sword.

Smiths tended to be big and burly not so much from the constant pounding on things with hammers, most of which are rather small (did 4 summers in a forge), It's the working of the Bellows and the Hauling of the raw Supplies and Stock that made for the "legendary" brawn of the smith.

Also, the Greatest Novels dealing with Magical Swords, EVER, Involves a Mortal and A GOD.  Casters didn't Rate.  Skill was needed, the real deal not the FAKED stuff.

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Nefensis

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2008, 09:00:58 PM »
Let's give these threads a rest, Soren is working on the system.

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Helaman

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2008, 09:11:23 PM »
Here is an idea BUT it does require a DM... AND assumes that while Spell Buffs don't work, DM buffs do. If DM buffs don't work then remaking PC's with Crafting levels is impossible.

If you are STRUGGLING to make your first potion, Suit of Plate or Gild your first sword, how about have a 'Master' do some RP with you with a wee bit of supervision from the DM... the DM then gives a +5 stat buff for one or two attempts... negating the -5 for a brief period.

It gives Masters some value.

Once again, it assumes that GM buffs do work. If they don't then you may also want to look at certain races that get an IN game adjustment (ie some elves get an Int bonus of 2 but it doesnt reflect in earned skill points or spell slots)

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

failed.bard

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2008, 09:17:44 PM »
Here is an idea BUT it does require a DM... AND assumes that while Spell Buffs don't work, DM buffs do. If DM buffs don't work then remaking PC's with Crafting levels is impossible.

If you are STRUGGLING to make your first potion, Suit of Plate or Gild your first sword, how about have a 'Master' do some RP with you with a wee bit of supervision from the DM... the DM then gives a +5 stat buff for one or two attempts... negating the -5 for a brief period.

It gives Masters some value.

Once again, it assumes that GM buffs do work. If they don't then you may also want to look at certain races that get an IN game adjustment (ie some elves get an Int bonus of 2 but it doesnt reflect in earned skill points or spell slots)

  I think they can modify your base stat if they have to.
  I do think there should be a system in place where it adds half or a quarter of the crafting level of a second character clicked on the work station, to reflect mentoring and helpers.  Nothing beyond a second person though, the old "Too many cooks" principle.

Rex

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2008, 09:26:12 PM »
Here is an idea BUT it does require a DM... AND assumes that while Spell Buffs don't work, DM buffs do. If DM buffs don't work then remaking PC's with Crafting levels is impossible.

If you are STRUGGLING to make your first potion, Suit of Plate or Gild your first sword, how about have a 'Master' do some RP with you with a wee bit of supervision from the DM... the DM then gives a +5 stat buff for one or two attempts... negating the -5 for a brief period.

It gives Masters some value.

Once again, it assumes that GM buffs do work. If they don't then you may also want to look at certain races that get an IN game adjustment (ie some elves get an Int bonus of 2 but it doesnt reflect in earned skill points or spell slots)

I'll Trump that.  Code a small Charged Item, of various levels (+1, +2, +3, +4, +5), that a master can REWARD a student with.  More RP tools less "I was a Smith for 56 years before the mists sucked me up!" *starts trying to boss the Master Smiths around*

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HellsPanda

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2008, 11:48:21 PM »
anyone tried crafting while polymorphed yet?


ps: I know smiths cant smith while polymorphed, but everything else should work with the enhanced attributes that seem to be inherent and not buffs.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2008, 11:50:53 PM by Jerv »

failed.bard

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2008, 12:15:04 AM »
You can't use items while polymorphed, so you can't craft.  Tried it to see if it needed to be pointed out as an exploit, since I was hauling ore in umber hulk for to the smelter anyways.