Author Topic: Not buff for crafting  (Read 5798 times)

Nefensis

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Not buff for crafting
« on: June 24, 2008, 05:33:47 PM »
Hey i liked the idea, very much liked it, until it came true.

Now i see how nigh impossible with the -5 it will be for new crafters to even get anywhere.

Suggestion

1- Remove the system as it makes it extremely hard for beginers

2- Remove the -5 to new recipes

3- Addition of new items to give a slight bonus with crafting. (Recipe book, smith's hammer, curing knife, stirring spoon etc)

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Rex

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 05:39:15 PM »
Tie in the Character sheet Crafting skills, Add a Feat or a Background that gives you a boost, Recipe Items in game.  Lot of little fixes which all would be good.

But leave the buffs out.  99% perspiration, 1% inspiration.  Leave in the -5 because THAT, gets rid of the Fly by Night crafters that aren't serious about the trade anyway from an RP perspective, they just want the game engine effects of the results of the trade.

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Nefensis

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 05:41:43 PM »
Quote
Tie in the Character sheet Crafting skills, Add a Feat or a Background that gives you a boost, Recipe Items in game.  Lot of little fixes which all would be good.

Either one would work yes. Either the -5 has to go or some kind of bonus needs to be given or then it's overly difficult for everyone, even for those that rp being blacksmith student for years.

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Bad_Bud

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 05:43:46 PM »
I don't know.  I started out with only +2 due to stats on herbalism, and I still managed to make the DC 15 potions.

I don't see a problem.  It only takes one lucky success before you can start churning out potions in mass quantities.


ethinos

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 06:18:12 PM »
I don't remember -5 modifiers in smithing, but I do remember when I started that even copper daggers were hard to make with any kind of accuracy. And that was only after watching a bunch of smelting going horribly wrong before I started getting successes in making even the ingots. At least you don't have a second craft tied in like the other crafts do.
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Taty

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 06:35:34 PM »
Every craft, until you have made something the first time, i.e. an iron chain shirt, there is a -5 dc to the check, once you have succeeded it is no longer there. Buffs would essentially allow you to bypass that, but so does having the right stats. I personally like the change, it will encourage people with the appropriate "talent" to go into suitable crafts instead of people with good buffs. Might encourage more balanced builds.  People also seem to be forgetting that crafting levels will eventually allow you to overcome any of these hurdles including bad stats, it just requires more dedication and perhaps resourcefulness.

DarkWyvern

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 06:37:38 PM »
Yep. Stuff I used to be able to craft Smith wise without failure, now I have a chance of failure again as it took away 5 points. Which is silly in my opinion because the older crafters don't just forget how to make what they've been making :P

ethinos

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 06:41:33 PM »
But when those old crafters are using buffs to cancel out their growing infirmity and frequent arthritis, I'm not surprised that they suddenly have a tougher time when the buffs no longer work. :lol:
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Taty

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 06:48:52 PM »
Yep. Stuff I used to be able to craft Smith wise without failure, now I have a chance of failure again as it took away 5 points. Which is silly in my opinion because the older crafters don't just forget how to make what they've been making :P

There should not be a -5 if you have made something once already.

Nefensis

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2008, 06:49:36 PM »
The problem is that both new changes clash with each other, carry less ore = less chances to try, more trips, less time to craft = frustration.

More accurate augmentation like backgrounds and feats or items is what's really needed here.

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Taty

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 06:54:22 PM »
The problem is that both new changes clash with each other, carry less ore = less chances to try, more trips, less time to craft = frustration.

More accurate augmentation like backgrounds and feats or items is what's really needed here.

Smithing certainly looks to be in danger. Unless you are rich and can hire a team. Maybe this will give pause to the thought of revising the values of crafted goods with npc merchants since more people will be needed to actually complete the process, or new crafters will get discouraged and abandon the idea, hard to say at this point. No doubt about it though, smithing in particular and crafting in general got harder. Time will tell if it is a bad thing or not.

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2008, 07:01:37 PM »
Except that there's the serious problem that new crafters will never want to bother with the system since the old crafters had things so jolly-olly-smooth.

I wonder how many of our oldest crafters (the ones that didn't have to deal with the -5 penalty for receipes, and these two newest changes) would have bothered with crafting.  I seem to recall playing James and having a good number of crafters going "Come here and give me Empowered buffs to help me carry this stuff and actually pass the DCs" in tells.  :roll:

Nefensis

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2008, 07:09:05 PM »
Alright, it must be tested before judged.

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2008, 07:09:51 PM »
Smithing nor any other crafting is in danger. Let's not overreact here. There will be a shortage, maybe, but people fill those niches. When Dorin and Torgan went poof, other smiths came along. And others are still learning despite the -5 disadvanatage.

As for the old smiths doing it without the "easyness" of the old system, I can speak for myself and say I'm willing to try. After all, Claire was only buffed once for leatherworking (Liam), and she had to relearn leatherworking twice since she had to be remade twice due to some silly bug. And if leatherworking taught me anything it was patience.


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Taty

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2008, 07:14:45 PM »
Agreed Delph, I am learning it as we speak, got in at the wrong time, but I don't intend to give up, I will adapt. Expect price increases though, though that might be a good thing too.

ethinos

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2008, 07:25:40 PM »
Except that there's the serious problem that new crafters will never want to bother with the system since the old crafters had things so jolly-olly-smooth.

Honestly, this is probably a good thing. The only thing keeping hordes of crafters from populating the server was the immense amount of time and money it often took to actually get good at it. If everyone is a smith, suddenly being a smith doesn't mean much. Only the truly dedicated should be able to master a trade. This is how it is in real life, and I think we are still trivializing the trades in game. I mean look at herbalism. Suddenly everyone was doing it, when in reality it should be a rare occurrence when you come across an herbalist.

Quote
I wonder how many of our oldest crafters (the ones that didn't have to deal with the -5 penalty for receipes, and these two newest changes) would have bothered with crafting.

They could've doubled the amount of CXP per level, or made me haul ore one at a time, and I'd still have gone through with it. I'm stubborn like that. (It must be the 1/8th Danish decent in me.) Getting through smithing is really hard, and you really must be dedicated. The higher levels of smithing and all the levels in gilding are horrendously expensive and you really must work to get good at it. Anyone on that path already, and staying true to it, won't allow something like this to keep them from mastering the craft.
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Badbelly

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2008, 07:31:22 PM »
heh, Crafting is way easier then when my PC , Liam, learned. When he got most of his levels, xp for crafting was a mere fraction of what it is now. I think the new system is still a lot easier even with the changes.

Helaman

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2008, 10:39:46 PM »
All I know is that I won't be learning smithing again with other PC's

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

Nefensis

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2008, 10:50:00 PM »
All I know is that I won't be learning smithing again with other PC's

Without the implementation of new bonus through backgrounds, it'll be nigh impossible for new PCs to begin a craft. If a PC is clearly decided to devote his time to a craft, he should take skills for it and be rewarded for it.

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DM Shadowspawn

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2008, 11:23:03 PM »
All I know is that I won't be learning smithing again with other PC's

Without the implementation of new bonus through backgrounds, it'll be nigh impossible for new PCs to begin a craft. If a PC is clearly decided to devote his time to a craft, he should take skills for it and be rewarded for it.

Copper dagger is DC 15. Stats can offset the -5 modifier without buffs. Further crafting systems are far faster in gaining crafting levels comparitively. It's not "nigh impossible". One must do the time. Nothing more.

heh, Crafting is way easier then when my PC , Liam, learned. When he got most of his levels, xp for crafting was a mere fraction of what it is now. I think the new system is still a lot easier even with the changes.

Badbelly is 100% correct. Comparitively to the Daev, Yoshinaka, Dorin, Torgan, and Toli days of smithing the system is far faster to gain cxp.

engelfire

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2008, 12:05:48 AM »
terrible moan, get over it really. so what if you cant use buffs to craft anymore, thats not the end of the world.

now you have reason to focus on the craft that best suits your talents, instead of trying to do all. now you have real good reason to start crafters hub where different people with rreal different talents have a purpose.

as mentioned, it is not impossible, it just takes time and dedication. i do not craft at the moment becouse there is no craft that would suit me. but once enchanting and scribing comes, ill tackle those
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Nefensis

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2008, 12:25:20 AM »
Right, good luck, We'll hear you moan then unless something else is added meanwhile to counter balance it.

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engelfire

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2008, 12:37:01 AM »
uh ok.. ?
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DarkWyvern

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2008, 12:41:00 AM »
Lets keep this civil and less rude and unnecessary attacks hmm?

Keep it constructive.

Rex

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Re: Not buff for crafting
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2008, 02:56:09 AM »
Amazing.  I REALLY like, the fact that now people that have the dedication that is required for WORK, will now be rewarded for that dedication while not being crowded by people looking for something easy to benefit them mechanics wise.  This new system will weed out the Chaff right off the bat and leave a core of dedicated crafters that will add Piles of depth to the unique RP of the server.

Losing the buffs does not make the Task unsurmountable.  It makes it Work, instead of a Hand Out.  Besides let's get down to the simple ROOT, of 90% of fantasy.  The Guy that had a REAL job, became an Adventurer, because the Real JOB, was a JOB.  Tedious, Tiresome, Annoying, Difficult.  You don't want to dedicate yourself to crafting, go gather, go adventure.

Current system Rocks.  Nothing worthwhile, is ever given, it's Earned.

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