You have been taken by the Mists

Author Topic: stealth versus detection spells  (Read 6727 times)

failed.bard

  • Guest
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2008, 11:22:44 PM »
  Amplify+clairaudience+helm of the bat+ selected feats and backgrounds will beat most MS builds.  Topic is about Clairavoyance and true seeing not stacking while camoflauge and one with the land do.  Lower level spells shouldn't beat out higher level spells.

Chrisman888

  • The Man Of The Hour
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1486
  • Current Character: Horatiu Milosovici
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2008, 11:23:03 PM »
Hm I thought someone said was just spot/listen... :P

lol Ok my last post makes no sense now.. *Coughs and runs off*

Ren13

  • New to the Mists
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2008, 12:28:42 AM »
Both sides add 20. Spot/Listen and hide/MS

only if youve added a server side fix in the haxs as in the hard code bioware missed the d20 to hide rolls well known and well documented

Negnar

  • THE Negnar
  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 898
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2008, 04:56:49 AM »
Both sides add 20. Spot/Listen and hide/MS

only if youve added a server side fix in the haxs as in the hard code bioware missed the d20 to hide rolls well known and well documented

Ren is right. Atm as far as i know there is no hak inn place to give sneakers that +D20 so atm its.... (If in detect mode or an elf) D20+Spot/Listen vs Hide/MS

But considering the sneaker gear and spells that kinda works out (only thing that is not then seen is DP's and lack of listen/spot gear, but thats a dev issue)

failed.bard

  • Guest
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2008, 05:00:26 AM »
Aren't they on the tenth patch now?  How could they miss that nine times in a row?

Rex

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3948
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2008, 05:12:13 AM »
Since I'm falling behind to Failed Bard in this, I'll make it up now.  If the Sneak Stuff Stacks, so should the Detect Stuff, unless within the description of the detect stuff does it state that it does not stack.

Someone show me this Sneaks don't get a d20 thing cause this is the first I've heard of it.  Granted I don't play a lot of sneaks but as nit picky as I am I'm sure I would have spotted that.  Guess I'll test it when I get time.


~Rex
Sometimes brutal violence is the only answer.

archonzero

  • Dark Lord
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
    • ArchonZero's Gallery Art
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2008, 06:17:36 AM »
I used to be a sneak, and that's just too nasty. Mass camouflauge and camouflage shouldn't stack at all.

  As a sneak I agree with this.. those two should not stack.  Since they are in effect the same spell.. one is simply a radius spell as opposed to single target.

Both sides add 20. Spot/Listen and hide/MS

  When was this changed/remedied.  I was informed a few months back that it was D20+spot/listen ranks vs. hide/ms ranks by many others.  Cause I did test this out earlier ( a month or so ago) a lvl 1 with 14 spot saw my sneak who had a 34 hide (the listen vs ms scores were not comparable beaten hands down even with a natural 20), not a fade but plain as day.  So if you are saying it is and has always been (d20 + listen spot vs d20 + ms/hs) then I will have to say you may be wrong in your understanding, since even if I rolled a 1 on my check I would have beaten the spotter.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 06:22:16 AM by archonzero »

-----
Jai'Dynn Za'Raa - Shadow Huntress

failed.bard

  • Guest
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2008, 06:41:16 AM »
There are situational modifiers to the stealth rolls that could have made a difference.  Moving, for one.

DM Shadowspawn

  • Guest
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2008, 08:16:10 AM »
Situational modifies affect Hide/MS which would grant the Spot/Listen person a better chance then just straight d20 plus skill.

Chrisman888

  • The Man Of The Hour
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 1486
  • Current Character: Horatiu Milosovici
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2008, 10:25:22 AM »
Passive (default) mode

    Trap detection radius: 3.33m (~11ft)
    Trap detection rate: 6 seconds (every round)
    Trap detection roll: d20 + full skill (in version 1.68, probably a bug)
    Spot/listen roll: d10 + half skill


Active (detect) mode

    Trap detection radius: 6.66m (~22ft)
    Trap detection rate: 3 seconds (twice per round)
    Trap detection roll: d20 + full skill
    Spot/listen roll: d20 + full skill


Stealth checks

    Player detects stealth: 5 times per second
    Player rolls for hide/move silently/spot/listen: 6 seconds
    NPC detects stealth: 4 seconds
    NPC rolls for hide/move silently/spot/listen: 6 seconds

All I could find..            http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Detect

Heretic

  • Dungeon Master &
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 16951
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2008, 10:38:26 AM »
For the Fifth time for people to argue with the basis of facts, here are the Stealth and detection modifiers as per Bioware.

Basic Mechanics

Passive (default) mode
Trap detection radius: 5ft
Trap detection rate: 6 seconds (every round)
Trap detection roll: d20
Spot/Listen roll: d10

Active (Detect) mode
Trap detection radius: 10ft
Trap detection rate: 3 seconds (twice per round)
Trap detection roll: d20
Spot/Listen roll: d20

Stealth checks
Player detects stealth: 5 times per second
Player rolls for hide/move silently/spot/listen: 6 seconds
NPC detects stealth: 4 seconds
NPC rolls for hide/move silently/spot/listen: 6 seconds


Modifiers and conditions

Listen/Move Silently:

* Automatically cannot detect silenced creatures
* Can only detect invisible (or when you're blind) creatures within the max attack range.
* Cannot hear sanctuaried creatures
* If there is something between you and the target (including creatures) there's a modifier of +5 DC for every 40cm of thickness in outdoor areas
* In indoor areas, if the LOS is blocked and the target is within 4 tiles (dfs search) there's a modifier of +2 DC
* Area listen check modifiers
* +10 DC if you are in combat
* +5 DC if the target is standing still
* -5 DC if you are standing still
* +1 DC for every 3 meters of distance to the target
* Relative size modifiers (Tiny: +8, Small: +4, Medium: 0, Large: -4, Huge: -8)
* Favoured enemy bonuses

Spot/Hide In Shadows:

* Automatically cannot detect invisible creatures
* Automatically cannot detect anything while blinded
* Area spot check modifiers
* During Night, if you do not have a light on you (including weapon lights and darkvision) there is a +5 DC modifier
* During Night, if the target has a light on them, there is a -10 DC modifier
* For stealthed players only, there is a +5 DC if they are in the back arc
* +10 DC if you are in combat
* +5 DC if the target is standing still
* -5 DC if you are standing still
* Relative size modifiers (Tiny: +8, Small: +4, Medium: 0, Large: -4, Huge: -8)
* Favoured enemy bonuses

Stealth and detection are fine, not worth the effort in discussing this for the 10th time.

ThAnswr

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 3045
  • We all end up the same: Level 20 or dead.
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2008, 11:57:52 AM »
For the Fifth time for people to argue with the basis of facts, here are the Stealth and detection modifiers as per Bioware.

Stealth and detection are fine, not worth the effort in discussing this for the 10th time.

I think players can decide for themselves what's worth discussing and what isn't.  
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 12:01:31 PM by ThAnswr »
Sig by Garison



When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
Hunter Thompson

"Rock is overpowered, paper is just about right" - Scissors
Thanks Aahz

failed.bard

  • Guest
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2008, 12:22:29 PM »
  Nowhere on that chart does it say why here it was decided that the lower level sneak spells shouls stack to give a +24 bonus to hide, while the higher level detect spells don't stack, and only give +10.  That is the topic, not the sytem.

  We really need Soren's opinion on this, or another member of the Dev team, as to why it stacks for one and not the other.

EO

  • Assistant Head DM/Developer
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 15285
  • The one and only, the one everyone wants to be!
Re: stealth versus detection spells
« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2008, 12:48:33 PM »
I thought it was made clear a while ago that some detect spells do stack such as Clairvoyance/Amplify which gives a +30 bonus to listen, a bonus that can't be matched by any + Move Silently buffs.

Either way, Mass Camo and Camo aren't supposed to stack and that will be fixed, but there is no reason why Camouflage and One With the Land wouldn't stack.

Locking this topic since it has served its purpose and such debates ultimately lead nowhere but to more animosity towards certain classes.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 12:50:27 PM by EO »