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Author Topic: Herbalism Suggestions  (Read 15977 times)

k_moustakas

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2008, 01:04:02 PM »
that's... a combo!
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Zedrik

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2008, 06:47:04 PM »
Since people seem to be getting Megan bugged quite a bit lately...
All it takes to fix the Out of Bottles thing is to sell her a bottle.
I've never had it disappear myself, but many times I've come in there to find the bottles not in her store.
Usually I have a couple bottles cause I often miscalculated on a previous visit and ended up with extras.
But as I usually only do a handful of hard potions at a time now, it happens less.
Please, if you bug Megan, sell her a potion back.

Emphatic please: More herbalist stations set up! Like Isabela in Barovia, at the very least.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 06:50:33 PM by Zedrik »

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Rex

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #52 on: June 07, 2008, 08:30:23 PM »
Or maybe the Wizards Tower out in the mountains.  Would still like to see a resale increase at Murnu's for the herbs.  Every other crafting resource COSTS more to buy it back from him, and the Herbs are still 1 for 1.

Makes a handy little holding station for some I suppose but since he's such a cheap ass lately, I don't see why he should be operating a Pawn Shop for herbalist while he rakes you over the coals for everything else.  Some things that he will BUY for 6 or 7, he sells for 30 or 40.  Herbs should be in the same boat.

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Rex

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2008, 01:41:27 PM »
At the point now where I am feeling sorry for people.  For the Non Casters that is.  There are a multitude of people that have put tons of RP into Herb anything, that are not Magical Powerhouse PC's (And yes there are some casters that have done this as well).

Still.  Watching a good Herbalist/Chirurgeon/Midwife/evil cackling Macbeth Cauldron Owner, get trampled in the race by the uber buffed, is kind of sad.

I would suggest, figuring out a way to tie in the Character sheet crafting skills, to help balance this out.  Also, with no resale mark up, all herbs appraise at the same, and it is causing issue's, and that's before you get into the clique handouts as mentioned by others in other threads.

Right now the Buff Meisters can get to the spawns faster, craft it faster, raise in CXP faster, dedicate a fraction of the time to reap 100 times the reward, and that's a very imbalancing thing in the long run where we have already had issue with people carrying a million gallons of liquid, and lag storming any event while they start chugging a small apothacary before they take the first swing.

I say, set the system (the entire crafting system) up to Ignore Buffs.  This brings the entire crafting system onto a field of skill rather then How many numbers can I pile on my stat.  Tie in the Character sheet skills (many a server modifies those I'm sure the folks here can to), so that folks can spend skill points on them as well (and perhaps add some new backgrounds to reflect this giving another bonus).  Doing so would level the playing field, the Buff meisters still have an advantage in collecting, but now those with skill points can compete, without having to worry about 9 zillion spells going off around them the stigmata (for the most part) of witchery and well, my personal favorite, the BERSERK rage using weapons crafter working with Molten metal.

I would also make these Potions Fragile, in the form of Not being able to stack them.  More use for custom containers.  In addtiions, one could add a variety of tools, to also help out.  Master Crafted smelting tongs etc etc etc, for a bonus that makes more in game sense then RRRRRRAAAAAGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!  *Slam Slam Slam Slam*

Casters got the best of the playing field anyway let's give the skill guy something for once.

~Rex
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Zarathustra217

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2008, 09:11:01 AM »
I say, set the system (the entire crafting system) up to Ignore Buffs.  This brings the entire crafting system onto a field of skill rather then How many numbers can I pile on my stat. 

This part I agree with in particular, but it poses to problems - one, how to explain it logically in character, and two, the fact that people wouldn't get their custom sub-racial ability bonuses, since they are effects as well. The first could be solved by saying that the crafting would in reality last much longer than the buffs could last, but the second is more complex. It might be possible though with a bit of tinkering.

Ryltar/ Robert Archer

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2008, 10:26:57 AM »
I know i've said this before but I really think the stats that were choosen needs to be looked at as I and quite a few others dont agree with it. COn/WIS to be just doesnt fit

con = health and stength of body

wis = common sense and perseception (this is good for herbliasm)

instead of con I dont see why it cant be int/wis thats choosen even if another system if giong to have it why cant herbalism too?

Rex

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #56 on: June 16, 2008, 01:01:31 PM »
I say, set the system (the entire crafting system) up to Ignore Buffs.  This brings the entire crafting system onto a field of skill rather then How many numbers can I pile on my stat. 

This part I agree with in particular, but it poses to problems - one, how to explain it logically in character, and two, the fact that people wouldn't get their custom sub-racial ability bonuses, since they are effects as well. The first could be solved by saying that the crafting would in reality last much longer than the buffs could last, but the second is more complex. It might be possible though with a bit of tinkering.

Couldn't you set it up then to recognize Subrace, and even apply Racial bonuses to certain crafts as a result?  Wouldn't need more then a Check Race add +2 or so I would think to balance it out.

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Zedrik

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2008, 03:08:04 PM »
I say, set the system (the entire crafting system) up to Ignore Buffs.  This brings the entire crafting system onto a field of skill rather then How many numbers can I pile on my stat. 

This part I agree with in particular, but it poses to problems - one, how to explain it logically in character, and two, the fact that people wouldn't get their custom sub-racial ability bonuses, since they are effects as well. The first could be solved by saying that the crafting would in reality last much longer than the buffs could last, but the second is more complex. It might be possible though with a bit of tinkering.
Kalan's modifiers without buffs were, at the beginning, +0-5-1+3
That's -3. Granted, it was still somewhat feasible to hit a DC 15 on a natural 18, 19, or 20, so after a bit it would have been +1+0-1+3=+3. Let's look at another.
When Ulfga started Gilding, she got this as her modifiers: +0-5+2+2
That's -1. So she got 1d20-1 for a DC 20 task. The crafting system doesn't give natural 20s any consideration, so she would have been unable to gild unless I was able to raise a stat to the point of give a +3 and then I'd have to roll a 20 to make that -5 go away. Gilding is expensive enough as it is, WITH buffs. All those failures I already get with buffs are frustrating enough, thank you.

Ulfga didn't start out as a wizard either. I took wizard levels for expeditious retreat and a familiar to scout with when she's heavily overburdened. :lol: For the longest time she was just a level 2 Fighter. Honestly, buffs didn't really speed things up THAT much. Expeditious retreat is the thing that sped up smithing...

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ethinos

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2008, 05:51:59 PM »
I've done most of the crafts with Torgan, and only used his rage in the beginning to start getting successes, and only in the later points to guarantee success of crafting someone's fully customized full plate armor (because wasting 1000 fangs and 20 mins someone spent modifying the template sucks).

However, I've done all the crafts for the most part without self-buffing. It's possible, and its not that hard. Some crafts though aren't going to be feasible if you have some crappy stats tied to it, but that should be expected. A skinny fellow won't make a good smith for example.
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ThAnswr

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2008, 06:13:48 PM »
I'm telling you, buy is the way to go unless you feel lucky with the cauldron.   :lol:
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Rex

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2008, 09:55:37 PM »
Even the buying is difficult because there is no merchant value with the Herbs (there is with the potions and you can make a TON of money, selling effectively Free material to Murnu).

As for the Buffs not being an advantage, Not true, Otherwise you wouldn't be constantly stampeded by one christmas tree thing or another or waiting in line behind them while they don't even bother going around the corner anymore to fire off 56 spells to begin crafting.

Getting rid of the Buff recognition all together, still leaves them an advantage in harvest, but puts everyone on equal terms in the growth and development of a trade that quite frankly, can break the game.  A recognize race function can be added (in theory), to take into fact subrace stats, and even give some bonus to certain races, and perhaps most of all, something can be done with the basic craft skills on the sheet, to allow for skill points to be spent  as well to for those really into character development.

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Nefensis

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2008, 10:14:47 PM »
Id rather see people with roleplay behind their craft than just because the stats allows it. A monk out of no where that begins potion crafting "just because he's good at it" kinda itch me.

But so far having a character dedicated to helping the crafters, it's been a great experience.

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Zarathustra217

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2008, 03:17:17 AM »
The problem with having buffs work for crafting is that it basically gives spellcasters an edge in all crafts.

I still think wisdom and constitution is the best way to go, unless we're going to revise the system completely, and put in whole different factors. These stats make it balanced toward monks, rangers, druids and clerics. Rangers and druids might seem the most obvious, but people of monasteries have through history always been keenly interested in herbs and their curative effects, and every monastery had it's own garden dedicated to growing them.

Rex

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2008, 03:52:00 AM »
The problem with having buffs work for crafting is that it basically gives spellcasters an edge in all crafts.

I still think wisdom and constitution is the best way to go, unless we're going to revise the system completely, and put in whole different factors. These stats make it balanced toward monks, rangers, druids and clerics. Rangers and druids might seem the most obvious, but people of monasteries have through history always been keenly interested in herbs and their curative effects, and every monastery had it's own garden dedicated to growing them.

Low con people tend to be allergic anyway.  Also, covering MILES upon Miles of terrain to find the stuff, get it back, prep it, brew it, etc etc etc.  Spend 8 hours grinding leaves to powder with a pestle and well, I can see Con playing a part in the process.

Those buffs get flushed I see the majority of the lightweights dropping out of the process and then, the true blue Herbalists and Midwives and other heavy hitter RP reasons for doing it, get a chance to shine at something.

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Zedrik

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #64 on: June 17, 2008, 05:25:07 AM »
Herbalists can make a buff potion for each of the 6 attributes...  :lol:

Seriously, though... the -1 from CON bites. Even with the +4 from WIS. Especially with the -5 crap.
Take the buffs away and Kalan becomes a sad little caliban and probably gives up on herbalism altogether.  :cry:
Screw his Plant domain herbalist witch of Hala background.  :evil:

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ethinos

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2008, 05:30:07 AM »
Buffs are the equivelant of an "Easy" button. This is Barovia, not Staples.
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Nefensis

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #66 on: June 17, 2008, 07:38:43 AM »
Big lack of red cap and over abundance of beggar's cup. I cant find more than 2-3 redcap at all.

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #67 on: June 17, 2008, 07:48:27 AM »
Big lack of red cap and over abundance of beggar's cup. I cant find more than 2-3 redcap at all.

  I think the description of red cap states they are rare, while beggar's cup is the staple of many beggars diets.  There should be considerably more of the beggar's cup, based on that.

Ric

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #68 on: June 17, 2008, 10:14:44 AM »
Or for the people whining about buffs becuase they can't cast buffs, why don't you try asking buffers to buff you (or buy potions from herbalists that do those buffs).

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2008, 10:20:48 AM »
Or for the people whining about buffs becuase they can't cast buffs, why don't you try asking buffers to buff you (or buy potions from herbalists that do those buffs).

i'm not whining about non buffs i'm just arguing that int/wis or int/con or something would make more sense due to int being KNOWLEDGE of mixing of plants etc

Ric

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2008, 10:31:29 AM »
I'm not talking about that, Robert.  I'm talking about the noise making over buffs being used for helping crafting.  It's stupid.

Ryltar/ Robert Archer

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2008, 10:33:48 AM »
I'm not talking about that, Robert.  I'm talking about the noise making over buffs being used for helping crafting.  It's stupid.

ah ok sorry mis understood :)

failed.bard

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2008, 11:58:13 AM »
  They could always script a DC check for collecting based on healing skill.  Then only people with a reason to know what to collect would be able to.

Rex

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2008, 12:05:09 PM »
  They could always script a DC check for collecting based on healing skill.  Then only people with a reason to know what to collect would be able to.

Healings an Application Skill, though a Healing/Lore thing would be interesting.  I know more then a few folk that can do CPR or splint a leg that couldn't tell you the difference between Milkweed and Thistle.

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Bad_Bud

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Re: Herbalism Suggestions
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2008, 02:45:16 PM »
Yeah, it was pretty funny when we all randomely started collecting crap from crypts and fields and talking about it like we suddenly had taken classes on herbalism.