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Author Topic: Platinum / Magic Weapons  (Read 12071 times)

Rex

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2008, 06:49:11 AM »
*longs for balanced crafting*  I don't like that idea.  It may be the Platinum thing though that's bugging me about it since I know real world metallurgy and it could be an obsessive compulsive thing but simply put, the ONLY people that should be able to take a weapon beyond "masterwork", are Casters.  That's pretty much the way it works in the DnD system though I suppose there are ways you could justify a sort of "Book of Swords" kind of feel to it for certain directions and near Epic levels of skill.  That's more Divine Inspiration though.

~Rex


A Platnum sword shouldnt have any bonuses in and of itself.  It might make for an interesting base component for a wizard to enchant it...

Right, for rings, other things like amulets, that sort of deal.  A weapon, not so much it's just flimsy.  Heck even Silvered weapons via the book are supposed to be Base damage -1.  Platinum isn't much better though as stated, for other things it would be pretty cool.

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Madnobody

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2008, 05:17:27 PM »
I say bring it on. Admittedly I've only been here since july,but in that period of time I've found something in a chest I could actually use maybe twice. to counter that out I've found enough cloth belts to keep up the pants of the entire barovian military, and more rusty weapons and armor than there is actual new metal to make more. Putting a few plus one weapons out there isn't going to destroy game balance-it's been so micromanaged that only here does a weapon with a plus 2 attack bonus seem uber. For a low magic setting, it's progressed nicely,but there's no reason to be neurotic about it,and letting people actually make the stuff won't eliminate the usefulness of classes-if the only reason people kept you around was to open the boxes with the talon belts and the rusty shields,maybe you need to work on your characters personality.

Rex

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2008, 05:40:45 PM »
I say bring it on. Admittedly I've only been here since july,but in that period of time I've found something in a chest I could actually use maybe twice. to counter that out I've found enough cloth belts to keep up the pants of the entire barovian military, and more rusty weapons and armor than there is actual new metal to make more. Putting a few plus one weapons out there isn't going to destroy game balance-it's been so micromanaged that only here does a weapon with a plus 2 attack bonus seem uber. For a low magic setting, it's progressed nicely,but there's no reason to be neurotic about it,and letting people actually make the stuff won't eliminate the usefulness of classes-if the only reason people kept you around was to open the boxes with the talon belts and the rusty shields,maybe you need to work on your characters personality.

Be nice if you could Recycle said Rusty gear, or, Add a few things to them to make them interesting (such as Disease Tetnus upon hit), or even offer a chance to repair such, or adjust the price so that they sell for a "class" lower then normal (ie:  Rusty Chainmail sells for the price of Scale mail).

I'd like to see real magic weapons actually, even if they have to be crafted.  Technically a Low Magic Setting should have a dearth of Magic USERS, as well as a dearth of Magic Items, so allowing crafters to produce some USEFUL magic items, even if only through DM intervention would be a nice step to righting the balance in that direction.

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ethinos

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2008, 06:07:35 PM »
I like a low magic world and wouldn't mind playing on a server where magical weapons (even a +1) was considered a rare artifact or holy relic. The only problem with PotM is the large number of creatures that require magical weapons to even hit them. :?
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Rex

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2008, 01:46:18 AM »
I like a low magic world and wouldn't mind playing on a server where magical weapons (even a +1) was considered a rare artifact or holy relic. The only problem with PotM is the large number of creatures that require magical weapons to even hit them. :?

I don't really care for places that sell magic items off the shelf like it's some sort of Walmart, but I don't like knowing that 2/3rds of the class options will almost certainly get Nowhere, unless their best friend is a Caster.  I do like the approach certain settings like Ptolus (Dreaming Apothecary) take (could list 5000 other settings that deal with varying magic levels and availability or items etc but that is other thread topic).

My issue here is that the current crafting scale is skewed mightily off track from the scale of items already prevalent in the game and I would hate to see the enchanted version take it even further off track.

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Inquizitor

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2008, 02:20:56 AM »
Eh.  The realy problem is that looted stuff is better than anything you can craft anyway  9 times out of 10.  Plus nothing ever wears out.  It gets old when your selling crafted stuff and are told off ICly becasue you can get better stuff fighting some geater werewolf.  Personally I think some sort of durability should be included in this game.  At least then it would be easier to add in enchanted crafting of some sort.   Your going to pay out the nose for the +1 sword of doom but are you willing to keep shelling out that money?  What about the steel armor.  Yes it gives you +1 but if you had to keep buying it because it eventually wears out would you settle for Iron or even Bronze?

Make it so even the magical looted items will wear out eventually.  Maybe even add in a system where a trained craftsman could repairit for you if you wanted to keep it.  Once that is addressed you could tehn explore magical crafting a little more eagerly.
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ethinos

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2008, 06:05:32 AM »
As a master smith, I've never been told off about the items I made. In fact, as far as durability, you'd be surprised at the number of times certain folks kept coming back to me because of either dying or carelessness in the dwarven mines. (Those slimes and rust monsters eat a lot of things!)

We have a lot of turn-over with new players and new characters that craftsmen (especially smiths, unfortunately for the other trades) shouldn't have to worry overmuch about the lack of clients.

However, if we can make a slim chance for a weapon or armor to break on a critical miss or critical hit... that would be cool too.
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Inquizitor

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2008, 06:40:24 AM »
WEll I would personally give things like 4 points and you would have that slim chance of loseing a durability point.  not sure how to do it but it would be better than an 'oops my armor is now dead all of a suden' type moment :)  Or alternativly instead of a durability system jsut give it -1AC or to hit  when one of those slim chances happen.

On a differnt but related note. While we are talkinga bout crafted stuff.  Would it be possibly to add in some sort of a system so Master craftsmen could produce masterwork quality stuffs?  IF I recall correctly the maximum crafting level is 50 and the hardest stuff to make is a DC of 50.  Might be wrong but that seems to sound right.  Anyway maybe a master crafter could get a toekn they could optionally add into the template when crafting.   This would incresae teh DC by 20 but a success would ive you a masterwork quality dealydo. 

I'd also think it might be neat if Dwarves and Elves could make Dwarven quality metal stuff and Elven quality bows.   Adding the bonus would be race specific and gained earlier than the masterwork one but wouldn't be as good as masterwork quality.  or at least different.  Also you would want to make it so you couldnt have more than one bonus.  you had to choose dwarven or elven or masterwork.

Additionally it might be neat if the Masterwork thingie bore the name of the crafter.  Sort of a crafters mark.
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Helaman

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2008, 08:36:22 AM »
The crafting system doesnt have any inbuilt race bonus and I'm not sure how hard that would be...

As names... just get the DM to rename the item adding your name to it.

Dozens of people have Taira Katana, Taira Wakazashi, Taira NoDachi and even Taira GaiJin Straight Bladed Swords.

The DMs can rename for you.

And Otake, Wulfgang Eberhardt, Aesin, Humiko, Bonereaver, Anthrania + whatever concept I am playing with...

Inquizitor

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2008, 09:54:23 AM »
I'm not a carftsman.  I'm just throwing out ideas :)  AS for the racial stuff.  I was thinking add a toekn of some sort that you can optionally put in the recipie.  It'll increase the DC just like the masterwork one but success will grant you a dwarven quality whatever (for example)
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Ellana Twiggy

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2008, 11:44:32 PM »
i'd love to see the enchanting system. . .once it goes in, am drooling with curiosity.  As for other smithing, lol, never going to happen with my caster. . .she couldn't even wield a hammer, let alone have the strength to use it. So, she has taken to rply try and learn about enchanting. Taking the proper weapons and materials and trying to imbue magic into them.
According to study, enchanting would actually take one to two years of study to even begin, and possibly more than 20 to even come close to getting good at. But, it also runs off of spellcraft.

Rex

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2008, 02:46:02 AM »
I'd like enchanting, to cost XP like it does in the book.

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archonzero

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2008, 04:36:18 AM »
  Make Enchanting a new selectable feat with certain pre-requisite costs.  This will eliminate the easy pickup CXP crafting that everyone could start up with, and force players to use up the precious feat choices they have.  As well, forces those high level players to forceably loose a few levels and level back up in order to take, instead of just pick up easily.  ( a bit cheesy on the re-leveling option )  Or they could submit a request to a DM for a re-level build in order to acquire it based on the concept of the character per say?

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Rex

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2008, 12:56:31 PM »
Thing is, We get a Million extra feats as it is so it's a non issue there.

The balancing factor of Building your own Magic Items in the PnP versions, is that not only are the components Expensive, and you need the skills, Lore, and feats to do it, but it requires XP as well.

You can always get XP back, hence, much like components, a reason powerful wizards actually adventure.

~Rex
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ethinos

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2008, 05:59:44 PM »
I know Rex may hate this, but I think Enchanting should be only doable by a caster class (preferably Wizard/Sorceror/Cleric/Druid), and then only after a certain level when their magic is strong enough to actually empower something.

The problem with the XP loss though is that high level casters can easily get more XP again... unless somehow that the XP loss is significant enough that the"Wall" comes into play. :twisted:
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Ellana Twiggy

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2008, 08:24:46 PM »
well, unless the xp loss is some how tied to the custom system here then it would be a rather painful issue. Considering if it is taken directly off of the char then it will instantly de-level them. That could fore seeably be a problem.
As for the crafting feats, well, after learning that none of them work currently, and wont with cnr in unless the system is vastly rescripted. The only reason why I haven't taken any of the crafting feats is for that reason, why would i waste a feat slot on something that does absolutly nothing.
Honestly, if they feats were simply enabled again i would be quite happy with that. Wouldn't be able to make weapons or anything, but wands and scrolls are vastly useful.
There is more to cnr that we haven't even seen yet, probably because there is still ongoing discussion on how to tweak and edit them and the recipies, but this is a general gist:

TINKERING – Tinkering requires that the player posses a Set of Tinkers Tools in their inventory. Tinkers can make a variety of different items ranging from glass ingots to crafting tools to deadly traps. These items are created at the following crafting devices:

Tinkers Device – This strange looking device is used to create arrowheads and misc. tinkering items. When closed, there is a small chance this device will cause an explosion. <g>.
Tinkers Toolkit – This device is used to create traps and crafting tools.
Tinkers Furnace – This device is very similar to the forge except that it uses lumps of clay to make various clay molds and bags of sand to make glass ingots and various glass products.

Tinkering uses two raw materials that can be mined. These are sand and clay. To mine these, the player must have a Shovel in their inventory. Sand deposits yield bags of sand and clay deposits yield lumps of clay. Shovels, like the miner’s pickaxes, will wear out from time to time when used. The frequency is configurable by the builder.

The Tinkering devices work similar to the other CNR crafting devices in that upon success the crafted item will be placed in the players inventory and upon failure, the recipe items will be destroyed. Dexterity (50%) and Intelligence (50%) are key abilities for Tinkering.


 

ALCHEMY – The art of alchemy consists of brewing potions. Alchemists can also make some of the oils used by the other trade skills, but brewing potions is the bulk of an alchemists work. Potions consist of two main ingredients. These are an essence and a key ingredient. Essences are made by combining several ingredients and pouring the mixture into a glass vial. This is done at the Alchemists Table. If successful, the essence will be placed in the player’s inventory. If unsuccessful, the recipe ingredients will be destroyed, however the player will get back the glass vial. Potions are made by combining an essence and various ingredients along with an empty flask. This is also done at the Alchemists Table. If successful, the potion will be placed in the players inventory along with an empty glass vial. If unsuccessful, the recipe ingredients will be destroyed, however the player will recover both the glass vial and empty flask. Wisdom (60%) and Intelligence (40%) are key abilities for Alchemy.


ENCHANTING – Enchanters can make a variety of items as well as enchant weapons, armor and shields. Enchanters require items made by Tinkering, Gem Crafting, Weapon Crafting, Armor crafting, Baking, Alchemy and Smelting. Enchanters use the following crafting devices:

Enchanting Alter – Used to create elemental bags, enchanted gems and enchanted ingots.
Enchanting Statue – Used to enchant shields.
Enchanting Pool – Used to enchant weapons.

Enchanted gems and ingots are created by combining the desired item with enchanting oil. Elemental bags are created by combining a leather pouch with gem dust and a key ingredient. Enchanted shields and weapons are created by combining the weapon or shield with an elemental bag and enchanting oil. Please consult the CNR Recipe Spreadsheet for the exact item recipes. The Enchanting devices work similar to the other CNR crafting deices in that upon success the crafted item will be placed in the players inventory and upon failure, the recipe items will be destroyed. Intelligence (60%) and Wisdom (40%) are key abilities for Enchanting.


GEM CRAFTING – The process of working with gems is a very detailed one that involves multiple steps and multiple crafting devices. These are as follows:

Gem Deposits – First you must gather gem minerals from the gem deposits.
Gem Cutting Stone – Used to cut gems.
Gem Crafters Table – Used to detail cut gems.
Mineral Wash – Used to identify the mystery minerals that are found while mining.
Jewelers Bench – Used to create rings, scarabs, necklaces and amulets.

To begin, the player must locate a gem deposit and successfully dig an uncut gem mineral. The player must have a Gem Chisel equipped in order to mine gem minerals. Once a gem mineral is extracted, it needs to be cut. This is done at the Gem Cutting Stone. The player will need to have a Set of Gem Crafter’s Tools in their inventory. This process will yield either cut gems or flawed gems and gem dust as a bi-product. To detail a cut gem, the player will again need to have a Set of Gem Crafter’s Tools in their inventory. This process is done at the Gem Crafters Table and will yield either fine gems or flawed gems.

To create rings, necklaces, scarabs and amulets, the player must use the Jewelers Bench. These items require a mold, enchanted gems and enchanted ingots.

Occasionally, players will find mystery minerals while mining. These minerals can be identified by washing them in the Mineral Bath. Dexterity (80%) and Charisma (20%) are key abilities for Gem Crafting.

whether or not we will actually see any of this, I could not tell you, though I can imagine the possibilities of it all. It is important to note however, that all of these are required to work together, can't really do much of one with out the others since they mesh together.

ethinos

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2008, 10:40:24 PM »
To be honest, if enchanting is anywhere near as overly powerful as herbalism is, I'm really starting to dread its coming. :?
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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2008, 10:42:20 PM »
OVERPOWERED? Fighters finally have an alternative to multiclassing cleric or mage and you call it overpowered? Man, don't even try to play that.

ethinos

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2008, 10:49:27 PM »
OVERPOWERED? Fighters finally have an alternative to multiclassing cleric or mage and you call it overpowered? Man, don't even try to play that.

"Play that?" Heh.

I like the fact that there is a disparity amongst the classes. (Remember, I play mainly fighter-types, too.) I liked it when I came to this server a year ago, and the magic level was pitifully small. It made things more interesting, and made folks depend on skills, feats, and abilities much more. Start throwing in crafts that change this server to a high magic server (like in Forgotten Realms), and you change the atmosphere of the server, for the worse. If I want to have a potion of every magic spell on a bandolier, and trip over garden hoes +2 when walking to the outhouse, I'll go play on a different server.
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engelfire

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2008, 12:01:54 AM »
i certainly hope that people wont start to multiclass into wizards and clerics just becouse of enchanting craft coming in some distant future. we already have like 20 out of 30 players who are multiclassed "Wizard 2/ Somethingelse the rest lv's"

how the hell you even pick wizard levels, you just take em just like that ? what about the old true wizards who actually spended years and years to learn even the basic idea of it, then along comes wannabe monster hunter B who just one day decides that "hey shit, ill become wizard !" and then

"KAZING hey dude i know how to manipulate energies around me and toss magic missile !! yeah of course im serious ! i took letter course that lasted week !"

and dont tell me you freaking rp the learning of arcane, you dont learn to cast arcane magic by making your character run in the forest for one in game month. doesnt work like that, you cant learn the basics on your own, you dont get epiphanies during night and reveal you mysterys of the magic.

sorry about this off topic rant, i just sick of seeing people multiclass into wizards or clerics without much rp behind it and only reason being that hey i can cast magic weapon now...
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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2008, 12:21:00 AM »
how the hell you even pick wizard levels, you just take em just like that ? what about the old true wizards who actually spended years and years to learn even the basic idea of it, then along comes wannabe monster hunter B who just one day decides that "hey ****, ill become wizard !" and then

"KAZING hey dude i know how to manipulate energies around me and toss magic missile !! yeah of course im serious ! i took letter course that lasted week !"

People learn and become better by killing bigger and stronger things. *nods sagely*

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2008, 12:52:26 AM »
how the hell you even pick wizard levels, you just take em just like that ? what about the old true wizards who actually spended years and years to learn even the basic idea of it, then along comes wannabe monster hunter B who just one day decides that "hey ****, ill become wizard !" and then

"KAZING hey dude i know how to manipulate energies around me and toss magic missile !! yeah of course im serious ! i took letter course that lasted week !"

People learn and become better by killing bigger and stronger things. *nods sagely*

or people could spend a few montsh RL time which is like what? a year two years engine time? it can hapen i guess but i hear what your saying engelfire

Rex

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2008, 05:29:47 AM »
Actually I agree with Ethinos, I think Enchanting should be relegated to Casters though even in 4th Ed they moved it over to Ritual stuff so anyone with the right skill, feat, set up can do it.  Suppose that makes sense in away, and I highly support casters doing caster things.

Also, I dread what it will look like considering other things.

As for the spontaneous Gee I'll get some Arcane Caster Now......it's not just Magic Weapon, which is useful (though GREATER magic weapon is what you really want, above it's speed bump level), and MW is not the reason they take it.

It's Protection from Evil.  And Mage Armor.  Mage Armor Stacks with Normal Armor, so welcome to +4 (+3 maybe if you have a ring or something) AC.  Prot Evil, well, Best spell in the game. 

Mage Armor should not work PERIOD, with any other armor.

Anyway, back on topic.  I still think an XP cost will balances out what will turn into a splurge of enchanters that makes the herb rush look like a flash in the pan.  Only thing people around here care more about losing then their STUFF, is their XP.

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2008, 05:53:46 AM »
Platinum is a metal softer than gold, no one in their right mind would use it in weapons or armor.

Not that I'm accusing any PotM characters of being sane, but still! :P
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engelfire

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Re: Platinum / Magic Weapons
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2008, 05:56:12 AM »
platinum is prolly used as side component in the enchanting process, not a base material for entire weapon. as you said, too soft
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