Author Topic: Magical Skirmish  (Read 18425 times)

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Magical Skirmish
« on: March 04, 2008, 03:09:08 PM »
Quote
Prestidigitation
Universal
Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: 10 ft. Target, Effect, or Area: See text
Duration: 1 hour
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No

Prestidigitations are minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice. Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour. The effects are minor and have severe limitations. A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material. It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material. It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters. Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components. Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects. Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.

So one of the main things I feel that lacks from the wizardly experience on nearly every NWN server is flavor, because Bioware didn't insert any of the cool, nonkilling spells. Prestidigitation is probably my favorite spell in D&D. It can accomplish any number of tiny, immaterial magical effects, but with clever application it can actually be used to make interesting things happen. The reasoning behind the general fatwa against mages being allowed to use spells that aren't included in the engine has to do with the fear that if you give a wizard the ability to turn someone's hair purple, next they'll be wanting to build their own arcane tower out of scrap iron and willpower. That's a pretty reasonable fear, given the surprising ratio of people who get it to people who don't, but I don't think that any decent roleplayer creates a wizard without imagining that said wizard is capable of employing spells that do cool things.

Blah blah blah. So! Magical Skirmish! What is it, what am I talking about?

Magical Skirmish is something I'd thought of a while ago and just had the pleasure of experimenting with. The idea is that it's a competitive and (generally, but not always) lighthearted exhibition of magical skills and cleverness between spellcasters. Each mage uses 2 ambient materials to create a brainless, fragile, ineffectual automaton which is then directed to destroy the opposing mage's automaton. Half puppetry, half pokemon. Unless it is agreed beforehand, only materials which naturally occur within the spell's range may be used.

The rules are pretty simple and fairly open-ended - the best of three spellcraft checks, broken up by colorful emotes, is the winner. Stakes, which are generally, but not always fairly small and reasonable, are declared before the match begins. That's pretty much it.

Where the creative and OOC'ly cooperative part lies is with the mages' choices of the 2 elements used to create their creature. The selection method is designed to be fair: the first mage chooses his first element, then the second mage chooses both of his elements, then the first mage chooses his final element. What this means is that, with a little knowledge of the natural world (or lack thereof), one creature might have a material advantage. The modifiers for the match will be affected accordingly. Obviously these modifiers must be agreed upon by both players at the outset or arbitrated by a DM if this little game is decided to be worthy of a DM's attention. For convenience's sake, I've divided up the modifiers into Trival, Moderate, and Major, just so as to give an idea.

Examples:
Trivial (+2 to spellcraft rolls) - Two automatons of stone and mud, where one mage has used a more resilient stone.
Moderate (+5 to spellcraft rolls) - An iron creature fighting against a stone creature; a cloth-and-dagger snake whose reach makes it a natural predator against a stiff little mud-and-stone golem
Major (+10 or more) - A winged torch that can drip burning tallow upon the cloth&dagger snake below; a steel creature fighting against a wooden creature; A mud-bowl of water that can fling bits of itself up at the circling winged torch.

Unless it's obvious, or the mage on the losing end of the modifier suggests it, or a DM makes the call, we should default to there being no appreciable difference.

Of course, there's plenty of room for creativity beyond this. Misdirection is there if you like, usage of the terrain, or intimidation. Any number of mundane methods of gaining the upper hand are allowed, but additional spellcasting is generally prohibited.

Anyway, there you are! A way to pass the night if you're a wizard.

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2008, 03:21:03 PM »
As long as both parties are consenting to these rules, I don't see this being any more harmful than say playing Dirty One Eye, since it's not something that can 'affect' other people (unless an anti-witch walks in on the two parties playing their game).  It 'could' seem cheesy in the eyes of people, but since it has no direct affect on a person, I say go with it, have fun.

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2008, 03:43:27 PM »
i gotta say i had a lots of fun watching the -match- the other night.

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2008, 04:19:08 PM »
Well. Eventhough I like the idea. I'll tell you what i was told when I tried to RP my lvl 16 wizard trying to cast a countrip spell that would paste a note on a wall. "If the NWN engine doesn't allow it, then it's cheese".
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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2008, 04:29:06 PM »
If the NWN engine doesn't allow it, it;s cheese.

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2008, 04:34:59 PM »
If the NWN engine doesn't allow it, it;s cheese.

That we agree on. But the nwn engine dosnt allow a lot that we still imagine. Here we're talking about a game that dosnt involves any advantage for anyone, its a game of rolls of spellcraft rather than a game of roll dice dirty one eye.. I personally love the idea.

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2008, 04:41:34 PM »
Your "Glue" spell, honestly doesn't exist, and it wouldn't last for all that long.

1 hour is prestidigitations duration.

But I like the idea. Its fun, a neat way for wizards to gamble, and just plain adds a way to make some heads stir..
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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2008, 04:44:44 PM »
If the NWN engine doesn't allow it, it;s cheese.

Exactly... NWN wwont' let Negnar hurl a chair at somone.. but we still do/allow it

But i'd agree for the cheese rule when it comes ot IC posts however

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2008, 10:28:54 PM »
Could someone define cheese for me? I think I might be a little behind on the lingo.

When I was playing Rampage in the arcades, cheese meant that something was a played out cliche, a thoughtless circumvention of the 'spirit' of things, and in general a tired failure of the imagination applied in poor taste. Unless I am seriously misunderstand things...  :?

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2008, 10:42:46 PM »
Cheesing is doing something your character couldn't do. Negnar could hurl a chair, it'd be cheesing however if Negnar, standing in the middle of a field hurled a chair he magically created at someone. It'd be cheesing if he hurled a tree at someone (well perhaps not with Negnar's crazy strenght) because he isn't strong enough to do that.

It's cheesing to cast a spell you don't have in your spellbook as your character is doing something he can't do.

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2008, 10:53:35 PM »
Cheesing is doing something your character couldn't do. Negnar could hurl a chair, it'd be cheesing however if Negnar, standing in the middle of a field hurled a chair he magically created at someone. It'd be cheesing if he hurled a tree at someone (well perhaps not with Negnar's crazy strenght) because he isn't strong enough to do that.

It's cheesing to cast a spell you don't have in your spellbook as your character is doing something he can't do.

-squirms- yeaaah but i wanna play too.. think a dm could make a -cock fight- event with that idea and concept?

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2008, 11:31:26 PM »
I have to say that, just because the engine doesn't allow it, doesn't mean that Developers or DM's can't decide to mash somet set of rules together for it, and let people have a little fun with their imaginations.

As long as no harm happens, it shouldn't be that bad. And as was stated, its not like anything is being magically created out of thin air. But it is being "sewn" together with minor magick. I think the definition of "Cheese" is too hard (like the cheese in my crisper drawer) and needs to be softened around the edges. We need to stop focusing completely on things that we can see "visually" and what we can "Visualize" in our own minds.

If all else fails, than a DM presence to arbitrate and prevent someone from "rampaging a two inch golem through the city" then so be it. If the parties agree to a set of rules prescribed, than there's no real reason to deny them the right to get a few minutes of fun from it.
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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2008, 01:40:05 AM »
I'm going to try and choose my words carefully...

I think a unilateral policy on cheesing will only detract from the server. Any server.

There are some valid complaints floating around about powergaming and a general lack of innovation. However, the NWN engine doesn't allow for innovation. Either you're going to have to allow people some latitude in what they can accomplish outside of what the engine allows or you have to consign yourself to a playerbase whose activities consist of going out and killing things, then later talking about how the things were killed. You really can't have it both ways.

Somebody recently posted that 99% of what players do at night is charge off toward the nearest source of XP and treasure. To be fair, I would say that this figure is marginally inflated, but I would also argue that it can get pretty boring to sit around in a tavern with four strong, silent types. When rules exist in order to restrict players' options overmuch, what you'll end up with are characters who are used to an unchanging, mediocre existence. So, why are people going out and killing things at night? Because they're bored. Why are they bored? Well, aside from all the reasons which are way beyond the staff's control, because the characters are being shaped into boredom. It's a problem that exacerbates itself.

I would also add that at least 90% of what I see on the forums are people mincing rules, saying what isn't allowed, and arguing over the conduct of players. There is a lot of talk about the atmosphere's deterioration. I think much of that has to do with a jaded attitude that reaches far beyond individual characters. Having DMed in my time and experienced the torrent of bad ideas, selfish requests, and smallminded visions that are often inevitably the mainstay of the DM existence, it's important to me that you understand that I'm not taking the difficulty of your work (and it is work, at times) lightly, nor am I pissing on what is often quite thankless and difficult - yet totally necessary for a functional server.

What I am suggesting is that there is a tendency for any DM staff to lean more and more toward a policy of "No" as time goes by and past experiences are tucked under belts. Counterbalancing this is creativity. If these two forces are in balance, you've got a functional, awesome server. If you lean too far in the direction of creativity, all cohesion is lost and you lose good players. If you lean too far toward No, you stagnate and lose good players.

I really, really think that resistance to an idea as harmless as a glue spell or wizard's pokemon is telling of a way-out-of-whack balance.

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2008, 03:03:56 AM »
The problem isn't that we DON"T want to do it, it isn't that we DON'T want to bend the rules sometimes, and it isn't that we DON'T agree. The problem is, if the rule is bent for one person, it has to be bent for everyone- as this is a democracy and not a dictatorship. Now, had the Players no rights whatsoever, we could do that. But breaking a rule for one person sets a precident in a world where the DM's have oversight, and rightfully so.

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2008, 03:06:54 AM »
What about having a dm event (akin to the cock fights) in the mage's tower with the tiny little element golem idea. Like a giant set of chest that kills each other. Woot woot.

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2008, 04:08:06 AM »
I read over my post and I don't see how I could have said what I tried to say any more clearly, so I'm assuming it's just a fundamental disagreement over whether equality should be preserved at the cost of quality.

***

Harrison Bergeron, by Kurt Vonnegut

THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren’t only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General.
 

Some things about living still weren’t quite right, though. April, for instance, still drove people crazy by not being springtime. And it was in that clammy month that the H-G men took George and Hazel Bergeron’s fourteen-year-old son, Harrison, away.
 

It was tragic, all right, but George and Hazel couldn’t think about it very hard. Hazel had a perfectly average intelligence, which meant she couldn’t think about anything except in short bursts. And George, while his intelligence was way above normal, had a little mental handicap radio in his ear. He was required by law to wear it at all times. It was tuned to a government transmitter. Every twenty seconds or so, the transmitter would send out some sharp noise to keep people like George from taking unfair advantage of their brains.
 

George and Hazel were watching television. There were tears on Hazel’s cheeks, but she’d forgotten for the moment what they were about.
 

On the television screen were ballerinas.
 

A buzzer sounded in George’s head. His thoughts fled in panic, like bandits from a burglar alarm.
 

“That was a real pretty dance, that dance they just did,” said Hazel.
 

“Huh?” said George.
 

“That dance – it was nice,” said Hazel.
 

“Yup,” said George. He tried to think a little about the ballerinas. They weren’t really very good – no better than anybody else would have been, anyway. They were burdened with sashweights and bags of birdshot, and their faces were masked, so that no one, seeing a free and graceful gesture or a pretty face, would feel like something the cat drug in. George was toying with the vague notion that maybe dancers shouldn’t be handicapped. But he didn’t get very far with it before another noise in his ear radio scattered his thoughts.
 

George winced. So did two out of the eight ballerinas.
 

Hazel saw him wince. Having no mental handicap herself she had to ask George what the latest sound had been.
 

“Sounded like somebody hitting a milk bottle with a ball peen hammer,” said George.
 

“I’d think it would be real interesting, hearing all the different sounds,” said Hazel, a little envious. “All the things they think up.”
 

“Um,” said George.
 

“Only, if I was Handicapper General, you know what I would do?” said Hazel. Hazel, as a matter of fact, bore a strong resemblance to the Handicapper General, a woman named Diana Moon Glampers. “If I was Diana Moon Glampers,” said Hazel, “I’d have chimes on Sunday – just chimes. Kind of in honor of religion.”
 

“I could think, if it was just chimes,” said George.
 

“Well – maybe make ‘em real loud,” said Hazel. “I think I’d make a good Handicapper General.”
 

“Good as anybody else,” said George.
 

“Who knows better’n I do what normal is?” said Hazel.
 

“Right,” said George. He began to think glimmeringly about his abnormal son who was now in jail, about Harrison, but a twenty-one-gun salute in his head stopped that.
 

“Boy!” said Hazel, “that was a doozy, wasn’t it?”
 

It was such a doozy that George was white and trembling and tears stood on the rims of his red eyes. Two of the eight ballerinas had collapsed to the studio floor, were holding their temples.
 

“All of a sudden you look so tired,” said Hazel. “Why don’t you stretch out on the sofa, so’s you can rest your handicap bag on the pillows, honeybunch.” She was referring to the forty-seven pounds of birdshot in canvas bag, which was padlocked around George’s neck. “Go on and rest the bag for a little while,” she said. “I don’t care if you’re not equal to me for a while.”
 

George weighed the bag with his hands. “I don’t mind it,” he said. “I don’t notice it any more. It’s just a part of me.
 

“You been so tired lately – kind of wore out,” said Hazel. “If there was just some way we could make a little hole in the bottom of the bag, and just take out a few of them lead balls. Just a few.”
 

“Two years in prison and two thousand dollars fine for every ball I took out,” said George. “I don’t call that a bargain.”
 

“If you could just take a few out when you came home from work,” said Hazel. “I mean – you don’t compete with anybody around here. You just set around.”
 

“If I tried to get away with it,” said George, “then other people’d get away with it and pretty soon we’d be right back to the dark ages again, with everybody competing against everybody else. You wouldn’t like that, would you?”
 

“I’d hate it,” said Hazel.
 

“There you are,” said George. “The minute people start cheating on laws, what do you think happens to society?”
 

If Hazel hadn’t been able to come up with an answer to this question, George couldn’t have supplied one. A siren was going off in his head.
 

“Reckon it’d fall all apart,” said Hazel.
 

“What would?” said George blankly.
 

“Society,” said Hazel uncertainly. “Wasn’t that what you just said?”
 

“Who knows?” said George.
 

The television program was suddenly interrupted for a news bulletin. It wasn’t clear at first as to what the bulletin was about, since the announcer, like all announcers, had a serious speech impediment. For about half a minute, and in a state of high excitement, the announcer tried to say, “Ladies and gentlemen – ”
 

He finally gave up, handed the bulletin to a ballerina to read.
 

“That’s all right –” Hazel said of the announcer, “he tried. That’s the big thing. He tried to do the best he could with what God gave him. He should get a nice raise for trying so hard.”
 

“Ladies and gentlemen” said the ballerina, reading the bulletin. She must have been extraordinarily beautiful, because the mask she wore was hideous. And it was easy to see that she was the strongest and most graceful of all the dancers, for her handicap bags were as big as those worn by two-hundred-pound men.
 

And she had to apologize at once for her voice, which was a very unfair voice for a woman to use. Her voice was a warm, luminous, timeless melody. “Excuse me – ” she said, and she began again, making her voice absolutely uncompetitive.
 

“Harrison Bergeron, age fourteen,” she said in a grackle squawk, “has just escaped from jail, where he was held on suspicion of plotting to overthrow the government. He is a genius and an athlete, is under–handicapped, and should be regarded as extremely dangerous.”
 

A police photograph of Harrison Bergeron was flashed on the screen – upside down, then sideways, upside down again, then right side up. The picture showed the full length of Harrison against a background calibrated in feet and inches. He was exactly seven feet tall.
 

The rest of Harrison’s appearance was Halloween and hardware. Nobody had ever worn heavier handicaps. He had outgrown hindrances faster than the H–G men could think them up. Instead of a little ear radio for a mental handicap, he wore a tremendous pair of earphones, and spectacles with thick wavy lenses. The spectacles were intended to make him not only half blind, but to give him whanging headaches besides.
 

Scrap metal was hung all over him. Ordinarily, there was a certain symmetry, a military neatness to the handicaps issued to strong people, but Harrison looked like a walking junkyard. In the race of life, Harrison carried three hundred pounds.
 

And to offset his good looks, the H–G men required that he wear at all times a red rubber ball for a nose, keep his eyebrows shaved off, and cover his even white teeth with black caps at snaggle–tooth random.
 

“If you see this boy,” said the ballerina, “do not – I repeat, do not – try to reason with him.”
 

There was the shriek of a door being torn from its hinges.
 

Screams and barking cries of consternation came from the television set. The photograph of Harrison Bergeron on the screen jumped again and again, as though dancing to the tune of an earthquake.
 

George Bergeron correctly identified the earthquake, and well he might have – for many was the time his own home had danced to the same crashing tune. “My God –” said George, “that must be Harrison!”
 

The realization was blasted from his mind instantly by the sound of an automobile collision in his head.
 

When George could open his eyes again, the photograph of Harrison was gone. A living, breathing Harrison filled the screen.
 

Clanking, clownish, and huge, Harrison stood in the center of the studio. The knob of the uprooted studio door was still in his hand. Ballerinas, technicians, musicians, and announcers cowered on their knees before him, expecting to die.
 

“I am the Emperor!” cried Harrison. “Do you hear? I am the Emperor! Everybody must do what I say at once!” He stamped his foot and the studio shook.
 

“Even as I stand here –” he bellowed, “crippled, hobbled, sickened – I am a greater ruler than any man who ever lived! Now watch me become what I can become!”
 

Harrison tore the straps of his handicap harness like wet tissue paper, tore straps guaranteed to support five thousand pounds.
 

Harrison’s scrap–iron handicaps crashed to the floor.
 

Harrison thrust his thumbs under the bar of the padlock that secured his head harness. The bar snapped like celery. Harrison smashed his headphones and spectacles against the wall.
 

He flung away his rubber–ball nose, revealed a man that would have awed Thor, the god of thunder.
 

“I shall now select my Empress!” he said, looking down on the cowering people. “Let the first woman who dares rise to her feet claim her mate and her throne!”
 

A moment passed, and then a ballerina arose, swaying like a willow.
 

Harrison plucked the mental handicap from her ear, snapped off her physical handicaps with marvelous delicacy. Last of all, he removed her mask.
 

She was blindingly beautiful.
 

“Now” said Harrison, taking her hand, “shall we show the people the meaning of the word dance? Music!” he commanded.
 

The musicians scrambled back into their chairs, and Harrison stripped them of their handicaps, too. “Play your best,” he told them, “and I’ll make you barons and dukes and earls.”
 

The music began. It was normal at first – cheap, silly, false. But Harrison snatched two musicians from their chairs, waved them like batons as he sang the music as he wanted it played. He slammed them back into their chairs.
 

The music began again and was much improved.
 

Harrison and his Empress merely listened to the music for a while – listened gravely, as though synchronizing their heartbeats with it.
 

They shifted their weights to their toes.
 

Harrison placed his big hands on the girl’s tiny waist, letting her sense the weightlessness that would soon be hers.
 

And then, in an explosion of joy and grace, into the air they sprang!
 

Not only were the laws of the land abandoned, but the law of gravity and the laws of motion as well.
 

They reeled, whirled, swiveled, flounced, capered, gamboled, and spun.
 

They leaped like deer on the moon.
 

The studio ceiling was thirty feet high, but each leap brought the dancers nearer to it. It became their obvious intention to kiss the ceiling.
 

They kissed it.
 

And then, neutralizing gravity with love and pure will, they remained suspended in air inches below the ceiling, and they kissed each other for a long, long time.
 

It was then that Diana Moon Glampers, the Handicapper General, came into the studio with a double-barreled ten-gauge shotgun. She fired twice, and the Emperor and the Empress were dead before they hit the floor.
 

Diana Moon Glampers loaded the gun again. She aimed it at the musicians and told them they had ten seconds to get their handicaps back on.
 

It was then that the Bergerons’ television tube burned out.
 

Hazel turned to comment about the blackout to George.
 

But George had gone out into the kitchen for a can of beer.
 

George came back in with the beer, paused while a handicap signal shook him up. And then he sat down again. “You been crying?” he said to Hazel.
 

“Yup,” she said,
 

“What about?” he said.
 

“I forget,” she said. “Something real sad on television.”
 

“What was it?” he said.
 

“It’s all kind of mixed up in my mind,” said Hazel.
 

“Forget sad things,” said George.
 

“I always do,” said Hazel.
 

“That’s my girl,” said George. He winced. There was the sound of a riveting gun in his head.
 

“Gee – I could tell that one was a doozy,” said Hazel.
 

“You can say that again,” said George.
 

“Gee –” said Hazel, “I could tell that one was a doozy.”

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2008, 07:43:20 AM »
Quote
Like a giant set of chess that kills each other. Woot woot.


heheh i once tried to suggest it but it didnt catch wind. its cool idea :D tested it on one harry potter server, really liked it and worked great
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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2008, 08:58:55 AM »
battle Chess! Hrm. Gonna check to see if we have any floor tiles that can be made to represent a chess board.
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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2008, 11:06:37 AM »
Chess script is really fun.  Server I used to run used it once.  Was really popular for people who wanted a mini-game to play on the side.  Would be cool to havea massive chess-board with NPCs that did what they were supposed to when you command them in the Mage Tower.

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2008, 11:57:36 AM »
Quote
Would be cool to havea massive chess-board with NPCs that did what they were supposed to when you command them in the Mage Tower.
I had a freind who once scripted a magical chess board that would have life sized pieces fight each other. Thats a bit high magic for Ravenloft though.

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2008, 01:39:37 PM »
Quote
Would be cool to havea massive chess-board with NPCs that did what they were supposed to when you command them in the Mage Tower.
I had a freind who once scripted a magical chess board that would have life sized pieces fight each other. Thats a bit high magic for Ravenloft though.

a bit too much Harry potter here :P

The original idea is 2inches tall golems made of elements (fire water land wind etc)

Stela Cojocaru - barovian snake
Crina Ovidiu - barovian guard

Ric

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2008, 03:40:21 PM »
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgf9FSI8_X0[/youtube]

Couldn't resist with all this talk of competition over little people.  :lol:

Unana / Rapsutin

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2008, 03:47:46 PM »
rofl  :lol:

archonzero

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2008, 10:22:06 PM »
PIKA!  *PUNCH*  Pika Ow.. Pika OW.. ROFL...

  Though I really like the creative idea behind simple elements that require a casters concentration to marionette to fight one another in a arcane duel of sorts.  Without requiring slinging forces of destruction around to kill one another.  The tiny elemental golems would dissolve the moment a mage would break his focus.  So you could even incorporate Discipline, Concentration, Spellcraft checks into the equation.  A discipline check could be the casters ability to influence the golems physical attributes, were Concentration would be required to hold focus on the creature each time it suffered a wounding blow.  Take the Casters level and that could be be the creatures maximum allowable hits it could absorb before utterly breaking down.  These creatures could not harm any structure, living being or otherwise real physical harm except to another simple weave created elemental golem.

IE..
-A level 10 mage could marionette a small elemental mixture for purposes of arcane duels
         -- it would have a maximum of 10 (level = hit point total) possible wounds before loosing cohesion and break down.
         ---- every 10 rounds (level = rounds per check)  the caster would be required to make a concentration check to hold the creation together.

No matter the level
         -Against another golem it can attack only once per round and cause one wound per successful strike.
            ---It would only be capable of one attack per round.
            ---Discipline checks required to strike, dodge or absorb each wounding point.  (both attacking or countering)
            ---Ranged Elemental attack cause two wounds. 
              -----attacker makes two [Discipline] rolls to wound.. the defender makes one [discipline] check to absorb both attacks
               ------- ie. attacker rolls 18 and 12... defender rolls 15... creation suffers one wound.. but absorbed the second
        - Each caster can still speak, is aware of events around them.. though if they interact with anything beyond the opponent or the creations would force a willpower check to remain in control of their creation.

  Anything beyond a simple slug fest or elemental ranged attack would force an immediate concentration check at DC of 50 and collapse the creation which would result in an automatic forfeit to the opponent.  Granted this would be a high DC, an archmage or highly focused magi could perform wonderous feats, albeit at high risk of forfeiting a duel of wits. 

    I think these are a fair and simple ruleset.. not overly complicated.

JayeAeotiv

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Re: Magical Skirmish
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2008, 01:14:15 AM »
If the NWN engine doesn't allow it, it;s cheese.

I'm not meaning any disrespect.  However the reason I like PotM is because of all the things done in RP that are outside of the realm of the game engine.  My gnome was thrown over a wall by an orc, for example.  Seeing as the orc rolled over 20 on a str check and Zook weighs very little, I think it's possible.  However the NWN engine does not allow for throwing other players.  Arm wrestling is not a part of the NWN engine.  Tying someone with a rope is not part of the NWN engine.  Most of the pseudo combat done for RP using [str] and [dex] rolls is not really part of the NWN engine.  However I love that we have these checks and can use them in the game to allow our characters to interact in a way other than combat.

A wizards strength is his spells.  Wizards spend a lot of time studying and learning to use these spells.  Wizards should be able to compete with eachother on their same level, using spells.  It doesn't hurt anyone for a wizard to cast a cantrip.  It's not hurting anyone.  Using concentration and spellcraft checks for this is hardly any different than for people to use strength and dexterity checks to hold people hostage.

Consider... if a wizard can summon a creature to fight for it with a few hand potions and crazy words.  If a wizard can polymorph himself.  If  a wizard can shoot flames from his hands.  Why would role playing a little golem fight between small bits of mud and stone be cheese?

The problem isn't that we DON"T want to do it, it isn't that we DON'T want to bend the rules sometimes, and it isn't that we DON'T agree. The problem is, if the rule is bent for one person, it has to be bent for everyone- as this is a democracy and not a dictatorship. Now, had the Players no rights whatsoever, we could do that. But breaking a rule for one person sets a precident in a world where the DM's have oversight, and rightfully so.

Yes breaking a rule for one person does set a precident.  However, there are already several things not available in the NWN engine that are done in RP.  Wizards cast spells, many of our skill points go into things to aid in the casting of spells.  Why is having some spell related RP cheese for a wizard just because it's a spell and requires a bit more imagination?  Using Influence to talk another player down on price is not part of the NWN engine.  Using intelligence checks to try to remember the way out of a cave is not part of the engine either.  People do these things.  People use constitution checks for drinking games.  I don't understand what the problem is, or what rule is being broken.

Here's where my confusion lies

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=2863.0
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Our rules are build around these three overriding rules:

1. “Play how you like as long as you don’t impair the roleplay experience of others.”
2. “Be authentic to your character and the setting.”
3. “Always treat your fellow players, DMs and developers with respect.”

I don't see a violation of the first big rule in this idea.

I think it's nice to see something that can be fun and role played without begging for any new scripts on the server.
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