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Author Topic: Call Lightning vs Firebrand  (Read 6693 times)

Ravenous

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Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« on: February 25, 2008, 10:25:31 AM »
Is it just me or are those two spells the same just different element? If so, why was Firebrand nerfed, it is after all a fifth lvl spell? A very good fifth lvl spell that outrivals other spells but still...

Edit: Of course Call Lightning is one of the few good druid spells for offense, so I think its good that way.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 10:27:32 AM by Ravenous »

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Ric

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2008, 10:41:14 AM »
I guess someone can go ahead and argue that firebrand has a bigger DC? (omg +2 more)

failed.bard

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2008, 10:42:42 AM »
Considering it's supposed to only work outside on stormy days and have a 10 minute casting time, yes, it should be nerfed, but only so that it doesn't function indoors.

Ric

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2008, 10:47:22 AM »
Yeah, I forgot about that.  Never understood how people have been using them in dungeons.

Ravenous

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2008, 01:33:03 PM »
Yeah, I forgot about that.  Never understood how people have been using them in dungeons.

Simple, its the one really good offensive spell the Druids get :D, until really late that is.. Keep that spell the way it is, druids gotta have some fun.

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2008, 02:43:54 PM »
Remind me to build a "lightning cannon" druid that just spams Call Lightning via metamagic feats, good times.

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2008, 02:58:33 PM »
Call lightning inside is as cheesy as a bear sliding down the rope into the well. But what can we do.

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2008, 03:00:11 PM »
I'll bring up the issue of call lightning working indoors.

Chrisman888

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2008, 03:06:22 PM »
Call lightning inside is as cheesy as a bear sliding down the rope into the well. But what can we do.


LMAO!!!!! I just pictured that in my head.. Hahaha. :lol:

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2008, 03:55:08 PM »
Yeah, I forgot about that.  Never understood how people have been using them in dungeons.

Simple, its the one really good offensive spell the Druids get :D, until really late that is.. Keep that spell the way it is, druids gotta have some fun.
I used to not use it indoor, but it got tedious not to.  :?

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ethinos

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2008, 04:04:56 PM »
A druid is a nature person. I don't consider indoors and underground to be places of your typical nature lover, and therefore don't mind if some of their spells aren't working in those places.
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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2008, 04:07:07 PM »
Yeah, I forgot about that.  Never understood how people have been using them in dungeons.

Simple, its the one really good offensive spell the Druids get :D, until really late that is.. Keep that spell the way it is, druids gotta have some fun.
I used to not use it indoor, but it got tedious not to.  :?

correct me if i'm wrong but isnt there something with call lightening where if there is a path of any kind to the sky you could use it underground? or am i thinking 2nd ed again?

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2008, 04:19:08 PM »
If you can see the sky, I don't see why it wouldn't work. However, I don't think any of our underground areas has such a 'skylight'. I'm a 2nd Edition guy too, and I'm pretty sure you needed some kind of line-of-sight for call lightning to work. You are after all calling the lightning down from the sky. If there is ground or a roof in your way, your lightning isn't going to be much use.
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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2008, 04:29:11 PM »
By the way, firebrand does more damage than call lighting. Firebrand goes up to 15d6 in normal nwn.
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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2008, 04:54:46 PM »
Ours is nerfed to 10d6, however, making Firebrand basically a party-friendly version of Fireball with +2 more added to the DC.

As for call lightning indoors, it'd be easier to just disable it than to thumb through excuses to have it work in the particular indoor area.

Ruxandra

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2008, 09:48:34 PM »
I'll bring up the issue of call lightning working indoors.

One thing you must remember is the druid spellset is horribly nerfed in NWN vs PnP, moreso than any other casting class.

Having played 4 druids far into epic levels on several servers, call lightning is as it is because quite frankly, call lightning is the only spell they have to kill things. And that isn't an exaggeration in the least. Wizards on the other hand can kill you fifteen different ways til Sunday, with or without firebrand.

With the alterations to summons and animal companions RL already has in place, I wouldn't start a druid unless I was bribed honestly. Altering call lightning in any way and I doubt anyone ever would (can't really recall many druids in RL as it is, for obvious reasons). What do you expect a druid to do if they can't cast it indoors? Sit there and watch everyone else participate in killing? Restrict themselves to wandering around outside killing worgs forever (since that's all they're going to be able to kill)?

For a class that has little going for it, I really hope you don't take away the only thing it does have to use. Especially when the other casting peers it has are still horribly overpowered and too versatile in this ruleset. Removing or altering call lightning from what it is makes Harper Scouts more useful looking than druids would be. Logic is nice to have, but it shouldn't trump balance.
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Ravenous

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2008, 10:43:36 AM »
I agree.
Call Lightning is best left alone, for the one reason that it is the only good spell druids have up till 7th lvl + spells. Druids after all get less spells than clerics, less useful spells than em etc. They get a little more spells than a non-specialized wizard, but again far less useful ones.

And considering the lack of Wilderness Areas in NWN in general the druid becomes even suckier, personally I find it strange that caves and such arent flagged as wilderness. I personally think every area not worked upon by a sentient being is wilderness or inhabited, meaning every naturally formed area should be counted as wilderness, but apparently it aint that way.

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2008, 12:51:35 PM »
Call Lightening could conceiveably work underground if....

The druid was displacing the charged ions between the roof and the floor of the cavern(possible considering various elements within the rock could support "charging".  Forcing the flow of the negative charge one way, and the positive to a point beneath the target.  Then surrounding the charge with a zone of resistance such that it's easiest route of discharge would be to arc tot he floor.

Druids might not understand it to work in this way, but might concieveably have the ability to perform such an action with their control over nature.  This is of course, not as easily explained in a "man-made" structure



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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2008, 01:34:31 AM »
druids had a indoors call lightning called "Static charge" or something in Icewind dale 2, but they never implemended it to nwn.
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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2008, 05:47:11 AM »
I personally am gonna use it indoors... I'm gonna go with a collection of static electricity... released at the same time... otherwise flame strike should not work indoors either.

HOWEVER I am gonna hot key an emote so that before I cast it there is forewarning.

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2008, 06:09:14 AM »
What about icestorm, acid rain, fire storm.. dunno might be a few more. These have specific rulings too no? Since we're not going canon rules with all other spells I don't see why we should with call lightning. It's a +2 dc yes. But druids in comparison to mages do not have as big a choice when it comes to offensive spells. Firebrand also targets the enemies for you and hits a larger AoE than fireball.

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2008, 06:48:37 PM »
Actually, doesnt lot of spells need components?

Before anyone gets this the last sentence wrong, I'll explain.

Unless there's an overpowered spell (such like harm/bigbye, etc) that really unbalances something. Let the spells be, else, give them all their true restrictions and components requirements. Which is a pain in the ass to scrypt and it's a pain in the ass for casters too and would make playing a caster tedious and un-wanted... bringing in only negative consequences rather than positives.
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HellsPanda

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2008, 01:45:54 PM »
besides according to the 3.5 PnP rules atleast, cant remember 3.0 rules. Call Lightning works indoors

Ravenous

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2008, 01:49:38 PM »
besides according to the 3.5 PnP rules atleast, cant remember 3.0 rules. Call Lightning works indoors

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Re: Call Lightning vs Firebrand
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2008, 03:43:58 PM »
yes but i think the questoin would be are we using 3.5 rules? or 3.0? nwn is based on 3.0 there fore i belive we should go with the 3.0 rules pnp wise when it comes to how spells should function but thats me