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Module Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Summoning Streams
« Last post by EO on Today at 11:39:52 AM »
Hence why effort is spent on other classes but buffing everyone to caster level just creates more power creep, which in turn forces us to scale up dungeons, and so on and so forth.
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Also this thread is about Listen, not Spot.

Fairly sure Hypatia was using the term "spot" colloquially rather than referring to the Spot skill.
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Whether it's feats&skills, gear or buffs, Detectors have the advantage.

Not gear.
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Module Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Listen checks to hear whispers
« Last post by Kinga on Today at 11:29:50 AM »
Great now I have to go to the moon to be sure Iím not being spied on. I donít hate this idea, but given that listen and spot arenít class skills for reasons I will never understand for most of us, I would really love to see absolutely massive spot bonuses to anyone within 5í; especially if itís light in the room. Stealthers get bonuses for cloudy days, massive amounts of gear and their only existing foil is cross class for most everyone. I hate that stealthers can and do simply walk through any doorway or area with absolutely no place to hide WHILE I am actively watching it... even in a open area without a single object to hide behind and I will -never- under any circumstance hear or spot them. Even if my friend spots them; he canít point them out to me. Itís bad enough never knuowing who is standing 1Ē from me, but now I canít even run to a locked door without someone listening in from 20í away? If there were other ways to drag people out of stealth such as a small AoE spell if you happen to guess where they are hiding; Iíd feel a bit better about giving stealth even more advantages.

What are you on about? Detectors have all the advantages when it comes to stealth/detect. If you arent willing to put the points into detection then you can hardly get cranky over the stealthers that put everything into both hide and move silently. Whether it's feats&skills, gear or buffs, Detectors have the advantage. You cant expect ot be able to just avoid being spied on unless you prepare yourself with the necessary precautions.

Also this thread is about Listen, not Spot.
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Great now I have to go to the moon to be sure Iím not being spied on. I donít hate this idea, but given that listen and spot arenít class skills for reasons I will never understand for most of us, I would really love to see absolutely massive spot bonuses to anyone within 5í; especially if itís light in the room. Stealthers get bonuses for cloudy days, massive amounts of gear and their only existing foil is cross class for most everyone. I hate that stealthers can and do simply walk through any doorway or area with absolutely no place to hide WHILE I am actively watching it... even in a open area without a single object to hide behind and I will -never- under any circumstance hear or spot them. Even if my friend spots them; he canít point them out to me. Itís bad enough never knuowing who is standing 1Ē from me, but now I canít even run to a locked door without someone listening in from 20í away? If there were other ways to drag people out of stealth such as a small AoE spell if you happen to guess where they are hiding; Iíd feel a bit better about giving stealth even more advantages.

What are you on about? Detectors have all the advantages when it comes to stealth/detect. If you arent willing to put the points into detection then you can hardly get cranky over the stealthers that put everything into both hide and move silently. Whether it's feats&skills, gear or buffs, Detectors have the advantage. You cant expect ot be able to just avoid being spied on unless you prepare yourself with the necessary precautions.
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Module Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Summoning Streams
« Last post by Hallvor Hadiya on Today at 11:23:59 AM »
There are ways by following 3.5 (ie: spell components for wizards/sorcerers, spellbooks that can drop for wizards meaning they lose all their spells, stricter control of clerics actively worshiping their deity, etc.), question is if and how to best implement them.

These "spellbooks", "spell components", and stricter control of clerical worship are even hand waved in the table top more often than not, being too much busy work. And even implementation on other NWN servers is piece meal at best, and sidelined at worse. For example "crafting spell components for spells that range upwards of 7-9" is apart of quite a few servers, but that is funnelled into a relatively painless crafting system, where as compared to POTM's which is far more intensive and some would argue excruciating. Forcing people to partake in the crafting system would make some quit the class alone, so successful?

And spellbooks that can drop, everyone would shift to Sorcerers not solving the problem but simply circumventing the solution. I'd argue there will always be better classes, more optimal classes and while I'm not dismissing the ideas out of hand, as it won't be me coding them but if the power creep was so easily solved it would already be done. For one maybe start introducing some of the epic fighter feats to those classes that need it.

The answer to the divide is not to hamper people with more restrictions, but to insensitive the other classes. The boogeymen of unbalanced gameplay has always been apart of D&D, its an adapted tabletop role-playing game with very little resources on interPC combat, it will always exist as a quirk of the game. I think what people want to see is greater agency, and choice.
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Module Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Listen checks to hear whispers
« Last post by Hypatia on Today at 11:17:47 AM »
Great now I have to go to the moon to be sure Iím not being spied on. I donít hate this idea, but given that listen and spot arenít class skills for reasons I will never understand for most of us, I would really love to see absolutely massive spot bonuses to anyone within 5í; especially if itís light in the room. Stealthers get bonuses for cloudy days, massive amounts of gear and their only existing foil is cross class for most everyone. I hate that stealthers can and do simply walk through any doorway or area with absolutely no place to hide WHILE I am actively watching it... even in a open area without a single object to hide behind and I will -never- under any circumstance hear or spot them. Even if my friend spots them; he canít point them out to me. Itís bad enough never knuowing who is standing 1Ē from me, but now I canít even run to a locked door without someone listening in from 20í away? If there were other ways to drag people out of stealth such as a small AoE spell if you happen to guess where they are hiding; Iíd feel a bit better about giving stealth even more advantages.
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Module Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Summoning Streams
« Last post by EO on Today at 10:59:35 AM »
I can respect that, but good luck re-balancing the other classes out of the 3.5 caster power creep. I think the thread has been answered in one way or another.

There are ways by following 3.5 (ie: spell components for wizards/sorcerers, spellbooks that can drop for wizards meaning they lose all their spells, stricter control of clerics actively worshiping their deity, etc.), question is if and how to best implement them.
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Module Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Summoning Streams
« Last post by Hallvor Hadiya on Today at 10:56:02 AM »
Right, but once again the time spent developing this can better be spent developing classes that aren't top tier classes (as druids, clerics and arcane casters are).

Once again, the stance is pretty clear at this point; if or when casters are brought down to a more manageable level, then we can look at side upgrades. You can agree that there are plenty of classes that need more attention than pure casters.

I can respect that, but good luck re-balancing the other classes out of the 3.5 caster power creep. I think the thread has been answered in one way or another.
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Module Feedback and Suggestions / Re: Summoning Streams
« Last post by EO on Today at 10:51:26 AM »
Right, but once again the time spent developing this can better be spent developing classes that aren't top tier classes (as druids, clerics and arcane casters are).

Once again, the stance is pretty clear at this point; if or when casters are brought down to a more manageable level, then we can look at side upgrades. You can agree that there are plenty of classes that need more attention than pure casters.
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