I think this is a very good change. Rewarding roleplay, even with minor RPXP, in western Barovia (a main roleplay hub) is, I feel, a very good thing.
However, to balance this change, we will make it a bit less convenient to travel between Western Barovia and the high level zones. What we really want to avoid is high levels that use Western Barovia as their casual hangout while going on intense dungeon runs far away, so by making back-and-forth travel harder, we hope to limit that whilst not impacting high-levelled characters that reside in West Barovia full time.
Firstly, the Vistani at the Tser Pool will now only sell their elixirs during the daytime and you will be required to consume the elixir on the spot. Secondly, the effect of the elixir will only last until dusk. While this deviates a bit from the official canon description, we find that the approach will generally lend itself well to the setting themes and lore.
To make the mist naviaguable with a way which is a little like the are perfidius or the city lost in the mist.This is already the case, try exploring the other directions than east/west next time you're there. RNG permitting you can go just about anywhere.
It looks good on paper, and hopefully it pans out to be an overall improvement!QuoteTo make the mist naviaguable with a way which is a little like the are perfidius or the city lost in the mist.This is already the case, try exploring the other directions than east/west next time you're there. RNG permitting you can go just about anywhere.
Entirely correct. That'll teach me to read and post things first thing out of bed in the morning :mrgreen:
But it is impossible to get to the West side of Barovia in this way, which is our subject now. My suggestion was rather to add a new mist area just on the other side of the mist wall, on the map with the door just before the ogres one.
There's absolutely no element of punishment in this, lmao.
Upping the cost of elixirs will have marginal impact on high levels, but hurt the lower levels and those that rarely dungeon the most. Generally, for the same reason, gold cost is rarely a very good way of shaping gameplay.
And in the end, as long as you roleplay along the way, you rarely need to hurry. It's the road, not just the destination. Experiencing the road matters too.
My main problem with this, is that if you're someone who can play in bursts of time, who works and leads a busy scheduled life, a significant portion of your time could be spent waiting for a 45-minute night cycle to pass. The idea of limiting things to day/night cycles is always bad for people with real lives and schedules to keep, because it eats heavily into an already limited timeframe.
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I feel like this will have the opposite of the intended effect. The people who already use Western Barovia as a casual hang out after 14 when it originally stopped giving even minor progression are only going to keep doing so. Imo if you want to push higher levels to “push themselves” give minor role play regression ticks while in WB. Barovia natives / factions could easily justify having a chapter in VoB which is a ghost town unless you’re running the vestibule, and isn’t THAT far from Vallaki if they’re ACTUALLY needed to give guidance / solve a problem lower levels can’t. Giving more high level pcs rpxp will just castrate MPCs that want to provide to the horror of western Barovia further because they now have an influx of new level 15+s hanging out.
I feel like this will have the opposite of the intended effect. The people who already use Western Barovia as a casual hang out after 14 when it originally stopped giving even minor progression are only going to keep doing so. Imo if you want to push higher levels to “push themselves” give minor role play regression ticks while in WB. Barovia natives / factions could easily justify having a chapter in VoB which is a ghost town unless you’re running the vestibule, and isn’t THAT far from Vallaki if they’re ACTUALLY needed to give guidance / solve a problem lower levels can’t. Giving more high level pcs rpxp will just castrate MPCs that want to provide to the horror of western Barovia further because they now have an influx of new level 15+s hanging out.
I think I am misunderstanding the writing of this post, or you might have misread Soren's statement. The change is, in fact, to give higher levels past 12 going onwards to 20, minor xp ticks, with the addition of extra difficulty being able to cross past the fog wall and into Western Barovia from Eastern Barovia. As far as I can tell, RP XP progression in Eastern Barovia is about the same as it is for the higher level areas of the server compared to Western Barovia (meaning it is uncapped there), but I could be mistaken.
I feel like this will have the opposite of the intended effect. The people who already use Western Barovia as a casual hang out after 14 when it originally stopped giving even minor progression are only going to keep doing so. Imo if you want to push higher levels to “push themselves” give minor role play regression ticks while in WB. Barovia natives / factions could easily justify having a chapter in VoB which is a ghost town unless you’re running the vestibule, and isn’t THAT far from Vallaki if they’re ACTUALLY needed to give guidance / solve a problem lower levels can’t. Giving more high level pcs rpxp will just castrate MPCs that want to provide to the horror of western Barovia further because they now have an influx of new level 15+s hanging out.
I understand the desire for your players to experience the road, and I agree- I remember my times as a new player making the journey to Mist Camp very fondly. That doesn't change the fact that I personally don't see any benefit to closing off night time travel to western Barovia.
I am thankful for the change even though I don't have any characters that can benefit from it, regardless.
There's absolutely no element of punishment in this, lmao.
Upping the cost of elixirs will have marginal impact on high levels, but hurt the lower levels and those that rarely dungeon the most. Generally, for the same reason, gold cost is rarely a very good way of shaping gameplay.
And in the end, as long as you roleplay along the way, you rarely need to hurry. It's the road, not just the destination. Experiencing the road matters too.
There's absolutely no element of punishment in this12 hours a day, travel between eastern and western Barovia will now be closed. This affects more than just high levels; many, many times I have found myself going to the Mist Camp to get xp at levels 4-8 because of difficulties finding groups to travel with in the Vallaki area.
...
Punishing players for simply wanting to travel, if they're lower levels, is a frankly hilarious continued example of PoTM continuing to deign timewasting as a gating mechanic to refuse people from doing... Whatever they actually want to do.
I understand that this is a hot button topic and there are several devs/DMs that fought with spear and tooth to actually even get THIS change alone, which is depressing as it is, but the truth of the matter is that roleplay experience, minor or not, should've been available regardless of zone with no time-wasting mechanics behind it. Imagine, me, as a full time worker, simply wanting to go dungeon with my friends, but I had logged out in the Mist Camp. It's night-time? What's that, I am limited on time and just actually want to dungeon with my friends in my free-time?
No, go to Hell, as a nicer, more PG-13 explicative phrase would state.
I already got exhausted from PoTM with the resting mechanics alone over the wear of a year and a half playing, waiting continual irl half hours for people's timers if one mistake was made to ensure a vital member was not left dead in the water. I've seen that three hour rest timer change to as early as level 8, or wherever it was last at, where buffs don't even last nearly as long as the time before rest.
There must be a better solution than this, simply put. I am not encouraged to return and come online knowing at any point if I come online at the wrong time, I'm simply screwed for possibly an IRL hour plus because of my bad timing with the ingame day and night cycle. Yes, it is a step in the right direction, but that step is still taken into wet cement. Receiving minor experience simply for adding to the setting and trusting players to either report or have DMs handle disruptive player behaviors while working alongside AMPC/MPC's players would be the better alternative (it should be obvious case closed to tell a player to knock off chasing a goddamn Werewolf with ethereal visage and full enchanted gear while screaming goofy phrases, versus a paladin protecting his immediate surroundings, for example), but that's a pipe dream.
Overall, what I expect to end up happening is people criticizing this change not for the right reasons, and for the benefit to go away of FINALLY, people being given what they deserve for adding to the setting, especially in Western Barovia, simply because we do not like the mishandled time-gate mechanic. It should change.
God willing, I hope you are not some poor sod who's like, level 5, and just wanted to travel to the camp and beyond to see what lies otherwise in the module, or did so for IC reasons.
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If I, a lone player, wanted to roleplay at myself, I would simply load a singleplayer instance.
Sometimes people want to meet up with their friends and play the game, just as much as they want to meet up and also enjoy eachother's company in roleplay. There must be a better solution than timegating people. Experienced players have played and seen the same road hundreds of times, and just like Newly Misted roleplay, it becomes obnoxious. Yes, obviously, appeal to whoever you travel with if you aren't alone, and react ICly to things, engage newer players, but sometimes, people are simply focused on getting to a locale to roleplay, which is the purpose of the server, or just play with friends.
Again, it's something that must be considered. Player enjoyment.
I think this is perfect. But with the new elixir does the effect persist if you rest? It also encourages people to not travel at night
...
Punishing players for simply wanting to travel, if they're lower levels, is a frankly hilarious continued example of PoTM continuing to deign timewasting as a gating mechanic to refuse people from doing... Whatever they actually want to do.
I understand that this is a hot button topic and there are several devs/DMs that fought with spear and tooth to actually even get THIS change alone, which is depressing as it is, but the truth of the matter is that roleplay experience, minor or not, should've been available regardless of zone with no time-wasting mechanics behind it. Imagine, me, as a full time worker, simply wanting to go dungeon with my friends, but I had logged out in the Mist Camp. It's night-time? What's that, I am limited on time and just actually want to dungeon with my friends in my free-time?
No, go to Hell, as a nicer, more PG-13 explicative phrase would state.
I already got exhausted from PoTM with the resting mechanics alone over the wear of a year and a half playing, waiting continual irl half hours for people's timers if one mistake was made to ensure a vital member was not left dead in the water. I've seen that three hour rest timer change to as early as level 8, or wherever it was last at, where buffs don't even last nearly as long as the time before rest.
There must be a better solution than this, simply put. I am not encouraged to return and come online knowing at any point if I come online at the wrong time, I'm simply screwed for possibly an IRL hour plus because of my bad timing with the ingame day and night cycle. Yes, it is a step in the right direction, but that step is still taken into wet cement. Receiving minor experience simply for adding to the setting and trusting players to either report or have DMs handle disruptive player behaviors while working alongside AMPC/MPC's players would be the better alternative (it should be obvious case closed to tell a player to knock off chasing a goddamn Werewolf with ethereal visage and full enchanted gear while screaming goofy phrases, versus a paladin protecting his immediate surroundings, for example), but that's a pipe dream.
Overall, what I expect to end up happening is people criticizing this change not for the right reasons, and for the benefit to go away of FINALLY, people being given what they deserve for adding to the setting, especially in Western Barovia, simply because we do not like the mishandled time-gate mechanic. It should change.
God willing, I hope you are not some poor sod who's like, level 5, and just wanted to travel to the camp and beyond to see what lies otherwise in the module, or did so for IC reasons....
If I, a lone player, wanted to roleplay at myself, I would simply load a singleplayer instance.
Sometimes people want to meet up with their friends and play the game, just as much as they want to meet up and also enjoy eachother's company in roleplay. There must be a better solution than timegating people. Experienced players have played and seen the same road hundreds of times, and just like Newly Misted roleplay, it becomes obnoxious. Yes, obviously, appeal to whoever you travel with if you aren't alone, and react ICly to things, engage newer players, but sometimes, people are simply focused on getting to a locale to roleplay, which is the purpose of the server, or just play with friends.
Again, it's something that must be considered. Player enjoyment.
Well, go to Hell too!
But more seriously, it sounds like you are very interested in convenience, which is far from what Ravenloft (or gothic horror) is about. Indeed, you have to constantly accept things not going your way and the entertainment not being lined up whenever you ask for it. But that is not a punishment, and frankly, to use your own phraseology, it's hilarious that you consider it as such.
Now to you and anyone else that find it tedious walking through those same mountains, valleys and open roads and feel that you've seen it all before, well - my friends - that's where the miracle of your own creative roleplay manages to still make it interesting. And to that, everything around here is secondary.
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Based Soren.
Gothic horror is about trials, yes; But is there a trial about awaiting in the Tser hub waiting for daytime when you've a group of people waiting on you for a roleplay? Not particularly. It's the only reason I raise this concern is the odd times it would happen (and perhaps not even odd, considering some people's logout habits). In the end, PoTM is a roleplay orientated server, yes, but it also facilitates a fascinating gameplay loop that several people obsess and enjoy. It's a hobby, and some people come on to play a video game, even if that video game acts as a collab narrative, I just advise that it's thought of that it could easily become people waiting around at this Tser night-time, idle, AFK, jut as many would engage and roleplay with those around them; Simply because they'd only intended to get to a destination and are now forced to wait for up to 30~ish minutes, depending.
The honesty in this reply is way more appreciated than anything else, though, I can tell you that. Good on you.
it never been the issue that higher lvls didn't get rp xp in barovia.
it never been the issue that it was about reward.
the issue was fairness.
if i tell you, you get 1 currancy of something for an hour you didn't swear or wern't acting nice towards another human beeing in life.
but told you yea but it doesn't count when you enter the workplace.
then you'd feel swindled.
and that's how it felt.
we have several faction bases in barovia that cannot be moved elsewhere.
guards
vardo
drain
elves
dwarves.
these are all stuck there, doesn't mean they cannot travel, but they will always come back to the faction bases, so i am glad we are getting the same deal as the rest of the server now. (reduced but still something)
as for mab or the staff in general sticking to this.
- Do not collect crafting resources from lower level Barovia yourself. Buy them from players.
honestly why would i buy a carrot if i can grow it myself or get it with ease?
why would i get said carrot in a dangerous place that takes a lot more time and has a lot more danger?
it makes no sense irl it makes no sense ic.
humans take the easy path, it's what we somehow do.
Will do. Hopefully this will work and we wont and up with the mess from before the change was made in the first place.I think this is perfect. But with the new elixir does the effect persist if you rest? It also encourages people to not travel at night
Yes, well, at least it should - so if it doesn't, please file it as a bug report.
Also, as a general service message, these changes aren't loaded yet, but should be very soon . just look for the next server update message.
The only groups that are really shafted out of those are dwarves and drain folks. If elves want to be with elves, there is Sithicus. Garda could transfer to VoB- when Krezk is open I usually see Vallaki guards there, Vardo..I don’t see why they couldn’t have a branch in vob made? Granted I have never played RVT so I don’t know their lore intimately. But if they have a port, krezk, Vallaki branch, idk why VoB is far fetched. Even Drain folks could go to Ghastria or Blaustein though so really I think it’s more just dwarves who don’t have a different place to go.
Imo all this change will do is further isolate Rp to Vallaki.
My main problem with this, is that if you're someone who can play in bursts of time, who works and leads a busy scheduled life, a significant portion of your time could be spent waiting for a 45-minute night cycle to pass. The idea of limiting things to day/night cycles is always bad for people with real lives and schedules to keep, because it eats heavily into an already limited timeframe.
On the flip side, this wouldn't actually stop people from coming into Barovia for casual RP and then exiting to a Dungeon. It just means that they'd have to time their return just like anything else in Barovia's Day/Night cycle.
I think those who are worried about the travelling from tser pool back are forgetting that there is the village near by which you can enter at night, and a slew of dungeons that people from west barovia can travel east to meet you and a mew dungeon can be picked
I think the RP change is great. Allowing people to continue leveling, even if at a lower rate, is very rewarding.
However the changes to the Mist Gate are a completly different topic/problem. It will only make it less convenient to come back to Vallaki, and means people who want to attend events in Vallaki will need to leave MC/Port earlier than planned, meaning these areas will lose even more RP. As someone who does RP in Vallaki, you'll be punished for leaving the area to go do a dungeon or get RP elsewhere and feel forced to wrap up some scenes to be able to come back to Vallaki during one of the allocated times.
Someone who logs off for the night in MC and comes back the next day at 4 PM IG and wants to go back to Vallaki will be forced to wait over 1h12 IRL to get back to that RP, because of that new mechanic. Is this really something the Dev team wants? I feel like this will kill some RP more than it's going to create any. It is likely going to mean people will not want to leave Vallaki because they will have trouble coming back in the time they have to play POTM.
But Vallaki-based events will now face a 50% chance that potential attendees on the wrong side of the pass will have to wait 0 to 72 minutes extra on their journey. That will make scheduling Vallaki-based events a lot harder, because calculating when IC dawn will be OOC weeks ahead of time is not really feasible. Vallaki players were already complaining that it was more difficult to run events there... this will probably make it even harder for them.
In my experience DMs are usually gracious about porting people to events, and I would hope that would be so for characters who just missed the last chance to purchase elixir. (Or the DM could even pop an elixir into the inventory of such characters?)
Feedback from DMs about this impact would presumably affect whether this change stuck or was backed out.
It's not the ferry being changed, remnar... it's the elixir. It's the option of doing the 15 minute run at night that is being taken away.I'm saying that there is already something that slows down travel at night, that being the ferry being unavailable.
I suppose, but I guess my point is that you can't win 'em all and that you gotta play the cards you got. I got what I wanted from this and the downside doesn't affect me so much.
I also believe, personally, that the issue is being blown out of proportion beyond what it really is.
The only groups that are really shafted out of those are dwarves and drain folks. If elves want to be with elves, there is Sithicus. Garda could transfer to VoB- when Krezk is open I usually see Vallaki guards there, Vardo..I don’t see why they couldn’t have a branch in vob made? Granted I have never played RVT so I don’t know their lore intimately. But if they have a port, krezk, Vallaki branch, idk why VoB is far fetched. Even Drain folks could go to Ghastria or Blaustein though so really I think it’s more just dwarves who don’t have a different place to go.
Imo all this change will do is further isolate Rp to Vallaki.
At this time there is no VoB garda and Krezk was open only for a week, likely won't be open until a DM has such a plot in the future and will be open only for a similar period of time.
If the mist wall is time gated why not just remove the elixir mechanic entirely?
It's a con for sure, but I don't think it's that major of a con. Maybe I believe too strongly that if someone wishes to do something or go to something, they should prepare as I do and pre-position especially if they think they will not be able to get there on time if they didn't.
What is being blown out of proportion? We can have a debate about whether the pros of this change will outweigh the cons. But the effect on events will be a con, and trying to dismiss it because you don't think it will have an effect on you is a little... well... dismissive.
If the mist wall is time gated why not just remove the elixir mechanic entirely?
We are well aware of the impact it will have on part of the player population, but it's very much intentional. We haven't brought back RP XP to encourage high levels who dungeon frequently to set up their base of operations in Western Barovia, rather we've done it to support those who do want to spend all or most of their time there.
It's essentially a compromise to let people who truly are dedicated to Western Barovia and want to spend their time there progress, while at the same time discouraging others from interfering in the affairs of Western Barovia.
And to achieve that, we must make it harder to both adventure in high level areas, where someone gains a distinct advantage over those who stay in Western Barovia, and have a constant steady base of operations in Western Barovia. This change, hopefully, will be enough to achieve that, but if not, others will follow to make it less convenient, not more.
We haven't brought back RP XP to encourage high levels who dungeon frequently to set up their base of operations in Western Barovia, rather we've done it to support those who do want to spend all or most of their time there.If the goal is to reward and applaud RP and progress to those dedicated to Western Barovia, would it be possible for a system to record how long certain characters remain in Western Barovia, then have them start earning RP Exp after that time has expired? A couple of characters come to mind who are well above the current level cut off, but remain dedicated to the region, for faction reason or otherwise. Could say something like, if your character is active in western Barovia for about a week, you start earning RP Exp again? Of course this might be entirely too difficult to script. I'm mostly in favor of the change, I think I agree with FinalHeaven that the travel situation will just become more tedious, though I suspect it won't have too much impact of who comes or goes in western Barovia. People who attend events should know by now that planning ahead and moving your character into position before events start it somewhat crucial, and now, yes, you may miss out if you're not forward-thinking. Small price to pay IMO.
We are well aware of the impact it will have on part of the player population, but it's very much intentional.
People who attend events should know by now that planning ahead and moving your character into position before events start it somewhat crucial, and now, yes, you may miss out if you're not forward-thinking. Small price to pay IMO.If people can't travel to Barovia the night before the event, then they'll either miss it or have to plan out their travels beforehand and save their characters past the mist wall. Maybe not being able to make it to two events in two different parts of the world should be taken as IC?
QuoteWe haven't brought back RP XP to encourage high levels who dungeon frequently to set up their base of operations in Western Barovia, rather we've done it to support those who do want to spend all or most of their time there.yes, you may miss out if you're not forward-thinking. Small price to pay IMO.
I think this is a very good change. Rewarding roleplay, even with minor RPXP, in western Barovia (a main roleplay hub) is, I feel, a very good thing.
It isn't ill-conceived at all. It's entirely well conceived. I was referring more about advertised player events, no character should be running off once they hear about a DM interaction unfolding somewhere. 95% of people miss out on spontaneous DM events so there is zero change to the current circumstance. And you don't need weeks to move your character into position for a poetry class in the White Lily with 4 days notice. Or a night at the Gaping Wound with less. You need less 15 minutes to make the walk to Vallaki from the Tser Pool (11 minutes on haste from Tser Pool to Ladys Rest, no ferry, at least with my load times), if you're unlucky enough to be caught at night time, (lets say hour 18) then you've got 72 minutes to wait until dawn. It's not the end of the world, you'll just have to wait.QuoteWe haven't brought back RP XP to encourage high levels who dungeon frequently to set up their base of operations in Western Barovia, rather we've done it to support those who do want to spend all or most of their time there.yes, you may miss out if you're not forward-thinking. Small price to pay IMO.
This echoed argument is ill-conceived. Not all events are made known weeks in advance. DM events in particular are almost always spontaneously occurring.
[Not all events are made known weeks in advance. DM events in particular are almost always spontaneously occurring.
This change may prevent Port players from running all the way to Barovia to investigate random avalanches, which may be nice side effect atleast.
I'd much rather see a mechanic that entirely prevents 14+ characters in western Barovia from resting outside of inn rooms than this change. Wherever it should go, these sorts of changes should start small and grow from there. From my experience, once changes like this are implemented, there's no going back until years down the line. We have tons of precedent by now to know better.
This seems like a very small change to me. Players have already had to plan around the ferry stopping
If it's believed to be an important lore piece then a better change would be to implement the elixirs in some meaningful way except as an item used for one very specific circumstance that only serves as a minor inconvenience. Maybe make it so that mist-walking at all requires a tonic. The elixir has next to no relevance as it stands. It's just a 5gp placeholder for a key that only works to a singular door.
The majority of player-run events I have seen, have been announced weeks and weeks in advance before they occur on the forums and in-game. DM events, or events that are being shouted for by DMs, I have been able to receive teleports to many times over. DMs are not unreasonable about this, they're nice and they want people to be able to get to these things, in my experience.
The only groups that are really shafted out of those are dwarves and drain folks. If elves want to be with elves, there is Sithicus. Garda could transfer to VoB- when Krezk is open I usually see Vallaki guards there, Vardo..I don’t see why they couldn’t have a branch in vob made? Granted I have never played RVT so I don’t know their lore intimately. But if they have a port, krezk, Vallaki branch, idk why VoB is far fetched. Even Drain folks could go to Ghastria or Blaustein though so really I think it’s more just dwarves who don’t have a different place to go.
Imo all this change will do is further isolate Rp to Vallaki.
QuoteHowever, to balance this change, we will make it a bit less convenient to travel between Western Barovia and the high level zones. What we really want to avoid is high levels that use Western Barovia as their casual hangout while going on intense dungeon runs far away, so by making back-and-forth travel harder, we hope to limit that whilst not impacting high-levelled characters that reside in West Barovia full time.
Firstly, the Vistani at the Tser Pool will now only sell their elixirs during the daytime and you will be required to consume the elixir on the spot. Secondly, the effect of the elixir will only last until dusk. While this deviates a bit from the official canon description, we find that the approach will generally lend itself well to the setting themes and lore.
I'd like to come back to this point specifically.
I like this idea. Personally, I dont care if they get rpxp out there but I wouldn't mind the mists being navigated one way only (with the exception of post NCE) where you can go to VOB from valliki freely but the only way is back through the mists and or maybe a caravan option that only appears at random intervals so its not reliable and cant be used for fast transport. You swear up and down your level 20 must be in valliki for their story, fine. Commit to staying out there longer than killing an MPC or flooding the low level area with addy.
I likely would if it was ever of any consequence or IC interest enough for my character to seek that out is the thing. And maybe make the elixir cost like 500gp and be required going both ways through the wall. Deter high levels sure but also reduce the amount of level 2 characters running straight to MC.If it's believed to be an important lore piece then a better change would be to implement the elixirs in some meaningful way except as an item used for one very specific circumstance that only serves as a minor inconvenience. Maybe make it so that mist-walking at all requires a tonic. The elixir has next to no relevance as it stands. It's just a 5gp placeholder for a key that only works to a singular door.
I don’t want to give any spoilers so I’ll try to remain vague: The canon use for the elixir isn’t related to navigating all mists and it has a specific purpose, is useful only for a specific location, and exists within those constructs for lore-related reasons. Could be something cool to discover in-character for PCs at some point possibly!
Deter high levels sure but also reduce the amount of level 2 characters running straight to MC.I like this.
+1 as well, unless of course character is going to stay in Dementlieu. But yes, seen way too many level 2 alt hoping to sneak their way into a group in mist camp which is also extremely jarringDeter high levels sure but also reduce the amount of level 2 characters running straight to MC.I like this.
For all the people saying it's a small change, let's put it this way.
Forcing anybody to wait for an hour and 12 minutes for just about anything in life is NOT a very small change.
these sorts of changes should start small and grow from there.
To use your own example, you do have to wait for food much more than an hour if you show up at a restaurant when it's closed.
Make it so that dungeons and Mist Camp offer zero rp xp and so it requires players to actually travel to places in the module to roleplay and progress the characters instead of macro-emoting or emoting fart noises as they dungeon.This is possibly, a good idea.
I think if you see macro-emoting and fart emotes, this is immersion breaking and should be reported. I don't see a point in having to punish everyone.
Absolutely nothing, keep them coming.I think if you see macro-emoting and fart emotes, this is immersion breaking and should be reported. I don't see a point in having to punish everyone.
What is wrong with fart emotes, so long as the character is someone who would fart, and is farting in character?
Yeah, the point about waiting an hour at a restaurant when it's closed is a little off, most restaurants don't operate on 72 minute open/closed cycles. :P And if I showed up at a restaurant and was told I'd have to wait an hour before being seated, I'd probably leave. Or log off, if you will.
I think if you see macro-emoting and fart emotes, this is immersion breaking and should be reported. I don't see a point in having to punish everyone.
What is wrong with macro-emoting? How is it inherently narrative breaking?
What is wrong with fart emotes, so long as the character is someone who would fart, and is farting in character?
Make it so that dungeons and Mist Camp offer zero rp xp and so it requires players to actually travel to places in the module to roleplay and progress the characters instead of macro-emoting or emoting fart noises as they dungeon.This is possibly, a good idea.
Has problems and issues many would not like.
Its more of an extreme solution.
Only siths deal in absolutes.
It won't happen, but it has the goal in mind im in favor of.
I feel like talking about REMOVING rpxp from areas is beyond the scope of this thread...
and also pointless and unnecessary.
Great change. I was always of the opinion that RP XP should be given in at least some areas in West Borovia.
However, the concerns mentioned by others above about real-life time limitations and not wanting to waste precious RP time waiting for an NPCS are valid.
I have a suggestion that may seem a bit extreme, but for some reason it works in my head:
Have the Vistani only sell one potion every 24 real life hours (more or less, exact number can be decided by the team). And the PC must drink it at the spot.
Other NPCS, such as Liz in the Morninglord Sanctuary, already have a "real time clock" limit with their services, so I am assuming this shouldn't be too difficult on the dev side.
This solution, in my opinion, makes travel between West Barovia and the rest of the world more difficult and less trivial, but it also allows a player to plan his RP sessions ahead of time and not rely on the game clock and unfortunate log in times.
Make it so that dungeons and Mist Camp offer zero rp xp and so it requires players to actually travel to places in the module to roleplay and progress the characters instead of macro-emoting or emoting fart noises as they dungeon.This is possibly, a good idea.
Has problems and issues many would not like.
Its more of an extreme solution.
Only siths deal in absolutes.
It won't happen, but it has the goal in mind im in favor of.
I disagree with this being a good idea at all. People SHOULD be roleplaying in dungeons. "Hey check this out" for lore spots. "Huh, book on X on the shelves.." "Look out, trap here." Beyond the pure functionality of the conversation working through a dungeon, formulating plans, spotting traps etc, finding lore dumps for the sake of ooc knowledge, it is also a good chance to RP. Especially in scenarios where a DM comes in and further highlights the dungeon for those players. Mist camp is also a place where most people, regardless of their origin, can meet new people, talk about their adventures, etc. If you're banished from Vallaki and dont want to be a port char, mist camp is your home basically. It would be better to address the bad apples just "emoting fart noises and spamming marcros."
RP xp for all is great. Each zone in the server fosters different communities of characters - there is only one Drain. one Degannwy, etc. Very glad to see those areas back on the xp tick cycle.
I wouldn’t mind tying the mist wall passage to the day/night cycle if there was a reliable way for people outside the client to know what time it is. But since it is so unpredictable given server resets and difficult to keep track of given the longer than an hour cycle, that’s not possible. It will be really discouraging to people stuck on the wrong side by accident, and find that they can’t do the RP they planned.
And how often have players accidentally stepped through the wrong spawn point when logging in and been halfway across the server when they have an event or an RP appointment? I know I’ve done it a bunch, and then did the “whoops please wait” pm to the other player. This change would mean I would have to cancel, since having someone wait over an hour is no longer just being late.
I think having an internal cool down for how many elixirs a character can use in a day would be a cleaner solution IC - these elixirs can’t be good for you. Maybe if you take two in a IRL day (24 hour period) then the second one fails? That way, the vendor doesn’t need to change and it’s all about how the elixir is applied.
TL;DR scheduling is the true dark lord of PotM. Anything that makes meeting for RP unpredictably impossible is :(
I think if you see macro-emoting and fart emotes, this is immersion breaking and should be reported. I don't see a point in having to punish everyone.
What is wrong with macro-emoting? How is it inherently narrative breaking?
What is wrong with fart emotes, so long as the character is someone who would fart, and is farting in character?
I think if you see macro-emoting and fart emotes, this is immersion breaking and should be reported. I don't see a point in having to punish everyone.
What is wrong with macro-emoting? How is it inherently narrative breaking?
What is wrong with fart emotes, so long as the character is someone who would fart, and is farting in character?
This has been mentioned a few times in this post and now I wonder if there is a rule or something prohibiting it?
I don't mind it as long as it's done properly and it doesn't break my immersion as it's something our body does naturally but people keep mentioning like it's a huge offense.
The fact of the matter is that alot of people, myself included, simply do not like the other settings and find nothing that interests them there.
Some people thrive in the Port setting- or Hazlan- or whathave you. I am thrilled for them, but I am not one of them- however, to make money, or experience, I am forced to leave then come back to where I have fun.
I try to be very cognizant that I am a sword in a knife fight, and tend to communicate OOCly, outright avoid the smaller fish, and be a guiding piece, but in the end it is a matter of where my time feels well spent, and where the events that interest me are. Alot of people are in a similar boat.
I find the statement of time constraints not being applicable incredibly insensitive and borderline malicious, and if the development team and its design philosophy can't understand that some people simply do not enjoy the other areas- I think you should take a fairly critical look and self examine.
Mind you, I came from a time where there was endgame content IN EASTERN BAROVIA.
I've played here for fourteen years for Barovia.
I am opposed to the traveling restrictions made as a compromise, I don't see why POTM has to always have some sort of debuff on something.
The fact of the matter is that alot of people, myself included, simply do not like the other settings and find nothing that interests them there.
Some people thrive in the Port setting- or Hazlan- or whathave you. I am thrilled for them, but I am not one of them- however, to make money, or experience, I am forced to leave then come back to where I have fun.
I try to be very cognizant that I am a sword in a knife fight, and tend to communicate OOCly, outright avoid the smaller fish, and be a guiding piece, but in the end it is a matter of where my time feels well spent, and where the events that interest me are. Alot of people are in a similar boat.
I find the statement of time constraints not being applicable incredibly insensitive and borderline malicious, and if the development team and its design philosophy can't understand that some people simply do not enjoy the other areas- I think you should take a fairly critical look and self examine.
Mind you, I came from a time where there was endgame content IN EASTERN BAROVIA.
I've played here for fourteen years for Barovia.
Thanks for reiterating here. A lot of people I know share this opinion but simply don't post on the forums because they prefer to avoid the drama.
As for saying that you just shouldn't leave Barovia, a lot of the game's elements force you to. Some merchants that sell class-specific gear hang out in mist camp only. Claims for gear based in port or mist camp force you to travel to those locations to recover them. If you simply want to travel to East Barovia for whatever reason, you're still going to end up taking that mist wall into consideration. If you want specific crafting materials you're almost guaranteed to be leaving Barovia. If the server resets and you forgot to rest in an inn, you're more than likely running into that wall again.
I find the statement of time constraints not being applicable incredibly insensitive and borderline malicious, and if the development team and its design philosophy can't understand that some people simply do not enjoy the other areas- I think you should take a fairly critical look and self examine.
But we are, as a fact, and always will be, a server where we encourage players to take it slowly and value roleplay over all else. And that is where this change support this philosophy.
Everyone will have adjusted in a month, sure- because much like the Invisibility changes, the majority feedback was ignored and the change was implemented anyways. Adjustment doesn't account for much when the people who actually have to play with and deal with the changes don't actually have a say in the matter.
That's exactly been our argument, though. There is no roleplay for people who prefer Barovia if they get stuck on the wrong side of the mist wall. East Barovia has never been a good source of roleplay because it has also been the developer team's vision to not have VoB act as a hub in any fashion. A/MPCs virtually never show up there either for that reason. The only hub to be found around that area is mist camp, and people have already stated their gripes with roleplay preferences there. We may start seeing weird tea parties around the mist wall at certain times of day, but I can't imagine how compelling that will be for people who just wanted to get back to their preferred RP hub during their crunch hours.
I don't think I said anywhere that I claimed to speak for the majority. It's simply not difficult to read through a thread to ascertain what the majority feedback is, if it centers around a specific idea.
I don't think I said anywhere that I claimed to speak for the majority. It's simply not difficult to read through a thread to ascertain what the majority feedback is, if it centers around a specific idea.
Sure, but that would require a majority of players to comment. Which is never the case. You can have a thread with only 30 different disgruntled players commenting, that'd still would not be indicative of the majority's will. You cannot manage a server solely on forum polls/posts alone, it's not an effective way to go. We also have our ways to gauge the efficiency of a measure and support or lack thereof of them. As I keep repeating though, nothing is ever done on a whim and we are mostly spot on when it comes to evaluate the impact a measure will have, or even the backlash that we will receive. Everything we do is to improve the server, and most of the time it succeeds. But we have our vision for it as well, and that is where it may not mesh well with some playstyles. The invisibility issue is for another post, but we are certainly happy with its current setup.
And my argument is still that you are able to plan ahead if you know you may get "stuck" on the Eastern side.
I have to comment on this point. It's going to be hard to plan ahead this sort of thing because the day/night cycle is, from the point of view of the average person logging on, random. So unless the Dev team offer some kind of Discord or online tool that tells us the IC day/night cycle and allows us to project it into a few days ahead, I don't really think you can say that players can plan ahead for this sort of thing.
I think it’s a worthy sacrifice for RP EXP in Western Barovia, but it does feel odd that we have to give anything up. Why not just force characters that enter Western Barovia to drop down to level 12?
I think it’s a worthy sacrifice for RP EXP in Western Barovia, but it does feel odd that we have to give anything up. Why not just force characters that enter Western Barovia to drop down to level 12?
I think it's strange to suggest that giving players better ability to track IC time will result in a dip of players at night, as opposed to the restrictions that apply at night, but OK.
why not log anyway an RP with whoever else's waiting for dawn? You'll get RPXP out of it! :mrgreen:
I disagree with your stance. There is nothing you can do in Western Barovia that you can't do elsewhere. "Time constraints" is therefore not a factor at all. Now perhaps you prefer to do things in Western Barovia, but then, you could also have chosen not to leave. That's really on you to assume your own choices.
We are a roleplay server first and foremost, we can and will implement measures that will force players to pause and consider other options to what they may prefer. Not maliciously, but because we feel these measures are most in line with our design philosophy. This is one of them. Soren explained it very well in a previous post too. It's definitively here to stick. We even made it abundantly clear that if this mild measure isn't sufficient we will consider adding more (though we'd prefer not to).
I don't think I said anywhere that I claimed to speak for the majority. It's simply not difficult to read through a thread to ascertain what the majority feedback is, if it centers around a specific idea.
Is it? You are literally suggesting a tool so we can know when it's day or night time, so that one may know if it's the right time to log or not. I don't think Maffa's assessment was that far off the mark.
So in the spirit of being constructive: I'm fairly sure a tool could be written in Javascript to give some rough guesstimates as to when day/night times will be, given an input OOC time and IC time by a player. If I write such a tool, is there a way it could be hosted?
Is it? You are literally suggesting a tool so we can know when it's day or night time, so that one may know if it's the right time to log or not. I don't think Maffa's assessment was that far off the mark.
It's mistaking cause-and-effect. It's blaming this hypothetical tool providing information to players, rather than the actual cause, which is the restrictions that apply at night. If I want to go out and buy ice cream, but I look at the clock and find out it's 3am, so no stores are open, it's not my clock's fault that I can't buy ice cream and so don't bother to go out.
On average, a random player logging on at the Tser Camp will face an 18 minute wait if they want to go to Western Barovia (50% of a 0 to 72 minute wait => 50% chance of ~avg 36 minute wait => mean average of 18 minute wait).
Helping players mitigate this waiting time by providing them with more information is a good thing and a good way to make this change more manageable. Arguing that they should accept the lucky dip of Mist Camp RP is going to be a far more hit-and-miss strategy. Being an European time zone player, I know that if I log into the Mist Camp and find out I have to wait 18 minutes before going to Western Barovia, chances are good that I won't find any RP to distract me and will probably log off.
So in the spirit of being constructive: I'm fairly sure a tool could be written in Javascript to give some rough guesstimates as to when day/night times will be, given an input OOC time and IC time by a player. If I write such a tool, is there a way it could be hosted?
Though I must say the Blood o' the Vine can be an excellent spot for RP. While it's true VoB isn't intended as a hub, it already has all the required amenities (except a bank) and we are making VoB more interesting with ongoing changes. A hub is really just that place players are willing to stay at.
If I start posting the output of my tool to the forums so that people can actually try to plan their days around the IC day/night cycle, is that metagaming too?
After some thought, I'm actually not against the time gated aspect. I do agree with what MAB said above, which is that you know where you log out at. It will inconvenience some people, but I think it is good to pick one area to be an influence in rather than roaming across the Core at the drop of a pen. This should encourage people to be more interactive with the setting and roleplay because they invest themselves in the area they want to be in.
I think, if anything, the wall will prevent people from rushing over to Barovia from Mist Camp when DMs are doing events, or when MPCs log in.
My only request is that the current formula for MPCs crossing the mist wall stay the same, where they can cross the wall without an elixir. And, subsequently, I think they should be immune to the time gate. A notable issue that might crop up for them otherwise is that vampires who hide their coffins east of the Mist Wall will have trouble making their way back because they already exist in a sort of "time gated" situation with their sunlight vulnerability. It, of course, shouldn't be exploited but we should not worry about MPCs exploiting by the virtue of the privilege they have being able to be taken away.
My only request is that the current formula for MPCs crossing the mist wall stay the same, where they can cross the wall without an elixir. And, subsequently, I think they should be immune to the time gate. A notable issue that might crop up for them otherwise is that vampires who hide their coffins east of the Mist Wall will have trouble making their way back because they already exist in a sort of "time gated" situation with their sunlight vulnerability. It, of course, shouldn't be exploited but we should not worry about MPCs exploiting by the virtue of the privilege they have being able to be taken away.
QuoteMy only request is that the current formula for MPCs crossing the mist wall stay the same, where they can cross the wall without an elixir. And, subsequently, I think they should be immune to the time gate. A notable issue that might crop up for them otherwise is that vampires who hide their coffins east of the Mist Wall will have trouble making their way back because they already exist in a sort of "time gated" situation with their sunlight vulnerability. It, of course, shouldn't be exploited but we should not worry about MPCs exploiting by the virtue of the privilege they have being able to be taken away.
Undead and constructs are already immune to the choking fog since it only affects living creatures. We'll look into the possibility of having other MPCs (lycanthropes primarily) be exempt as well.
"Generally" but not always. In this particular case, 20th level monks will not be given a free pass. That would be entirely the opposite of what we are trying to achieve.
QuoteMy only request is that the current formula for MPCs crossing the mist wall stay the same, where they can cross the wall without an elixir. And, subsequently, I think they should be immune to the time gate. A notable issue that might crop up for them otherwise is that vampires who hide their coffins east of the Mist Wall will have trouble making their way back because they already exist in a sort of "time gated" situation with their sunlight vulnerability. It, of course, shouldn't be exploited but we should not worry about MPCs exploiting by the virtue of the privilege they have being able to be taken away.
Undead and constructs are already immune to the choking fog since it only affects living creatures. We'll look into the possibility of having other MPCs (lycanthropes primarily) be exempt as well.
What about lvl 20 monks? They're in their own time/space bauble and generally do not follow the laws of the domain they're in, being outsiders
This change has harmed me more than helped me, however much I appreciate the roleplay XP gain. The script either misbehaving or my ignorance of a mechanical aspect ruined a prearranged roleplay meetup because i didnt have time to run all the way back and trigger it again.
I still fail to see the necessity to impose this timelock, rather than decisively dealing with people that are disrupting the setting and perpetuating whatever issue has constantly led to more stick than carrot.
Treat the cause, not the symptom.
Is the mist locked both ways? Or is one able to LEAVE western Barovia during the night to go RP with others on the other side of the wall? If the latter is true, peoples “scheduled meet up’s” just need relocation.
This change has harmed me more than helped me, however much I appreciate the roleplay XP gain. The script either misbehaving or my ignorance of a mechanical aspect ruined a prearranged roleplay meetup because i didnt have time to run all the way back and trigger it again.
I still fail to see the necessity to impose this timelock, rather than decisively dealing with people that are disrupting the setting and perpetuating whatever issue has constantly led to more stick than carrot.
Treat the cause, not the symptom.
Treating the cause is exactly what we are doing, even though you disagree with the treatment. It is what you propose that is not feasible nor desirable. For one thing DMs are not numerous enough to deal with each instances of people being disruptive as they occur. Secondly this would only lead to more accusations of favoritism as some incidents are treated and others not. This mechanical solution has the advantage of being fair to all.
The necessity for the timelock was well explained in Soren's original post. The intent is to slow down the return of high level players to western Barovia when they leave the area, so that we do not reproduce the conditions that led us to cut RPXP for high levels in the first place. You actually just confirmed this part is working as intended. Be well aware too that his is only a first step. We hope this will be enough, but it not we will introduce other measures to further slow down returns to western Barovia.
This sentiment is alarming and contrary to what a vast majority of players want or are looking for.
I didnt confirm much beyond the script not persisting through rests screwed me out of my focus- Roleplay.
I had been out of Barovia for well over twenty four RL hours, so my 'return' was specifically to meet up with another- and this prevented me from being able to do that.
This change has harmed me more than helped me, however much I appreciate the roleplay XP gain. The script either misbehaving or my ignorance of a mechanical aspect ruined a prearranged roleplay meetup because i didnt have time to run all the way back and trigger it again.
I still fail to see the necessity to impose this timelock, rather than decisively dealing with people that are disrupting the setting and perpetuating whatever issue has constantly led to more stick than carrot.
Treat the cause, not the symptom.
Treating the cause is exactly what we are doing, even though you disagree with the treatment. It is what you propose that is not feasible nor desirable. For one thing DMs are not numerous enough to deal with each instances of people being disruptive as they occur. Secondly this would only lead to more accusations of favoritism as some incidents are treated and others not. This mechanical solution has the advantage of being fair to all.
The necessity for the timelock was well explained in Soren's original post. The intent is to slow down the return of high level players to western Barovia when they leave the area, so that we do not reproduce the conditions that led us to cut RPXP for high levels in the first place. You actually just confirmed this part is working as intended. Be well aware too that his is only a first step. We hope this will be enough, but it not we will introduce other measures to further slow down returns to western Barovia.
People don't only go to mist camp to dungeon though, there are like two or three domains other people rp in. Even rp in mist camp sometimes. People also have items and gold stored in the Keep. Also what if someone needs to log out and it is already past 6pm? These are issues I have ran into since the change to the point it's stressed me out.
I honestly think there should be a sort of exhaustion system for people who run all over the entire core in the span of a single day without ever stopping and resting. If you think about it, it’s ABSURD to have your character go (potentially if you played for a whole day straight) nearly a WEEK without any rest and travel all over the world.
People don't only go to mist camp to dungeon though, there are like two or three domains other people rp in. Even rp in mist camp sometimes. People also have items and gold stored in the Keep. Also what if someone needs to log out and it is already past 6pm? These are issues I have ran into since the change to the point it's stressed me out.
the entire point is to make it a choice to actually consider leaving the West Barovia. Items and gold can be moved, all be it a pain in the butt and probably slowly if you have 10,000 things stored because that ish will be heavy. For the people who are exclusive to vallaki, unaffected entirely. I personally run back and forth a lot between the two, but like specifically timed spawns, if thats what I want to go for, thats what I go for. If it means I RP somewhere else while I wait, thats what I do. The other day I missed the night cycle and RP'd with people at the Tser pool who were also stuck. Unless its an event, whoever you are arranged to meet with can always come to you if it ticks over to night. The entire server outside of like 4 places seems completely dead. Use the space lol.
I do not want to commit to one place.
i thought the goal was preventing people disrupting other people's objectives, not to prevent people RPing.
If that was the goal then yeah objective reached.
I dont feel like that was the goal though, so maybe either you misunderstood it, or i did.
People don't only go to mist camp to dungeon though, there are like two or three domains other people rp in. Even rp in mist camp sometimes. People also have items and gold stored in the Keep. Also what if someone needs to log out and it is already past 6pm? These are issues I have ran into since the change to the point it's stressed me out.
the entire point is to make it a choice to actually consider leaving the West Barovia. Items and gold can be moved, all be it a pain in the butt and probably slowly if you have 10,000 things stored because that ish will be heavy. For the people who are exclusive to vallaki, unaffected entirely. I personally run back and forth a lot between the two, but like specifically timed spawns, if thats what I want to go for, thats what I go for. If it means I RP somewhere else while I wait, thats what I do. The other day I missed the night cycle and RP'd with people at the Tser pool who were also stuck. Unless its an event, whoever you are arranged to meet with can always come to you if it ticks over to night. The entire server outside of like 4 places seems completely dead. Use the space lol.
It wasn't at you specfically, if anyone its someone in the thread who said they come to MC to blind drive and then leave. Yea, they openly admitted to it.
But there is a general trend of players disgruntled and who want to keep their ease of access vallaki/mist camp flip flopping going.
The mist camp is placed very far away from Vallaki because as I believe, it was intended to create 2 different dedicated hubs with dedicated players to their hubs. If the gap: distance, and time to travel did not exist between these hubs, what would be the point? It would be one hub, all the same.
The devs goal appears they wish to keep that gap very clear and present.
Then its upto the players if they choose to play against the obstacle that is the gap.
I would like to make a reminder, I understand the reasoning behind the mist wall locking.
To make the BEST of this change, guys please make an effort to seek others when you are locked on the East side instead of simply logging out.
Since it will be night time, you are likely to choose destinations such as Mist Camp, Tser Pool Vistani Camp, The "Bus Stop" benches very close to the crossroads, an interior location of VOB: Church, Blood of the Vine.
(I wish Blood of the Vine was a high traffic tavern and you could expect to find other players there consistently)
The new update revamps some dungeons for VOB. It would be nice if players at least in the VOB level range would err on travel to Mist Camp, and instead choose any option in West Barovia given the area has increased value. However, players always need to fill their gold so dungeon trips bring players back to MC. So the natural tendency of players is still, to fill up in MC.
I encourage you, regardless of this tendency, to travel back to Barovia for other activities not limited to dungeons.
This change is to deter players who RP in West Barovia and then Dungeon in higher level zones. So perhaps accept what it is, and begin RP in higher level zones.
Decrease the frequency you stay in West Barovia. Thankfully, any trips back to Barovia still reward RP with xp!
My point being, high level RP tends to stunt unless you really press to seek it out. It would be nice if it didn't feel so hard to do so.
And I'm not telling players who stay or enjoy West Barovia to leave, even I am one of the players who enjoys returning to connect the lower levels to RP growth and guidance.
I am saying what we all could hope to change - better and more RP in high level areas!
Maybe it's better making a few clarifications.
A "hub" is a place where people converge to go elsewhere. Atlanta Airport is a "hub", because it's conveniently in the middle of US. Other airports are made to be hubs even if they arent physically in the middle because policies, but that's what hubs are. Places where people go to go elsewhere. And due to the high traffic, they end up attracting services, and people linger.
The outskirts are a natural hub because of the morninglordian temple&crypts, lady's rest, and sits smack in the middle to paths going west, northwest, north, south and east.
Another hub, which is a natural hub, is Mist camp. It is literally a hub. You call it bus stop, but it's a hub. It has been designed to be THE Hub for the whole server. It used to be people aligned along the pathway waiting for someone to say "perf?" or creating impromptu duels because of boredom, but as it is now there's people more bent to roleplay, and it is a RP hub. I regularly roleplay there with a number variable between 5 and 10 people at all times whenever i log in, and the experience is probably linked to time zones but this is my experience. The experience is totally comparable to the outskirts. Sometimes I/we leave the place to go RP somewhere else, or we go dungeoneering somewhere else, exactly like in the outskirts. All it takes is for a character to craft a few benches and we recreate the lady's rest beer garden in the middle of the mists. I do not need to trek to vallaki in order to shed all the blind drive with some minor RPXP, i can do the same in MC at full RPXP, if I am seeking a mechanical advantage. if I go to vallaki is because I look for specific people to RP with.
Tser pool is not a hub. VOB is not a hub. Muhar is not a hub. Those are terminus, places you go to, and then come back from. If you are stuck in tser pool, that doesnt make it a hub, but a weird bus stop (yes, in this case) where you are stuck at for unforeseen reasons. And maybe it's me, but i never met more than two other people in Tser waiting for the morning to come. Thats because it's more logical waiting in -right!- the hub which is MC before taking the carriage to Tser.
I see no reason to wait in Tser and Rp there. it's an awkward place where everyone is looking nervously at their lower right corner to see how many more minutes they are to wait to get to seven oclock. Ive yet to meet people with an RP attitude "Oh what a fortuitous event! since we are all stuck here why dont we go somewhere nearby and smash things?" People dont leave MC to go raiding west barovia caves, and people that come from vallaki need to plan well ahead, they cant impromptu the Well just because they are bored.
Again, i dont like this change. it isnt working as intended, for what is my experience.
If your character is one that views the Mist Camp as more than a bus stop, or perhaps a glorified inn, then I just don't think this change is something you should care about- but if you feel like that, and you want to rp with your friend(here I am assuming you two are simular level/ability) what about Vallaki makes you need to go back?
Again, i dont like this change. it isnt working as intended, for what is my experience.
I was joking with a friend that after level 12 your OCR would start increasing by 1 per level which would make it impossible for most high levels to use the ferry, besides a lucky few Charisma classes and anyone who makes room for influence in their builds. The old dragon disciple fix, which of course eventually got changed. Wouldn't exactly be bulletproof, but the ferry letting high levels easily (and quite cheaply) get back to Vallaki is obviously a problem since the mist spawns even now are rarely a problem for characters at 14+.
I don't play enough to have a horse in this race, but here are some of my more serious ideas.
I am still very much in support of the idea that characters in the "NCE zone" are level drained irrevocably to level 14 and the only way to remove this debuff is to leave. It can absolutely be explained via IC superstitions from many different angles. Is it a curse? Have the Barovians "willed away" high level magic with their own fear? Is it Strahd's oppression made manifest? Something more sinister still? Who knows.
One elixir per 18 hours seems like it would be fine (supporting those who cannot log on at the same time every night). Say it's something to do with the elixir having side effects if taken too often. Perhaps if you make it so a second one can be used, it gives you a debuff if you do it twice in a 24 hour period (with a warning beforehand that just looking at the potion makes you feel queasy). I think you could combo this with the above.
Again, i dont like this change. it isnt working as intended, for what is my experience.
"Not working as intended" may go both ways. It could not be working by not reaching its mark, but truth is that it is too soon to say if it worked or not. We first need to collect actual data about it, then we'll reevaluate.
But lets say "it doesn't" and we need to revise it further. What alternative would you propose then under these three variables?
- One that reaches the intended goal of slowing down the return of those that leave Western Barovia.
- One that can be reasonably explained in-game.
- One that is fair for all.
The Vistani deciding to conduct business by day only and having the elixir to be potent by day only being the current explanations. We considered other avenues such as increasing the prices of the elixir, but that would only hurt lower level characters. We considered limiting buying the elixir to once a day or once a week (both IG or real-life), but that'd made it even more difficult and annoying then now where it is only unavailable every other 72 minutes.
I'm not just asking Maffa here. I'm asking everyone, if you don't like the current what would you have it be? "No restriction" is not an option. We remember what it was when there was none, and it was bad Soren explained why there is a need for one and we will not return to that state.
What alternative would you propose then under these three variables?
- One that reaches the intended goal of slowing down the return of those that leave Western Barovia.
- One that can be reasonably explained in-game.
- One that is fair for all.
The Vistani deciding to conduct business by day only and having the elixir to be potent by day only being the current explanations. We considered other avenues such as increasing the prices of the elixir, but that would only hurt lower level characters. We considered limiting buying the elixir to once a day or once a week (both IG or real-life), but that'd made it even more difficult and annoying then now where it is only unavailable every other 72 minutes.
1. RP XP is set to max. Bonus XP during the night (since people will probably cry inside inns/temples/houses)
2. During the night, all mobs will be in large numbers and boosted to very high levels including 20; if possible, no XP from them so they cannot be farmed (probably an OnDeath script for specific mobs that removes the xp?)
3. No resting during the nights outside. You cannot rest in a land that wants you dead. Or, allowed to rest but with an ambush mechanic with high level monsters.
4. All AMPCs and MPCs are boosted immediately to lvl 20 by default when they roll their new "form". If they got there, they deserve it. Also they have tools to deal with the night since it is their playground.
5. This applies to all areas on the server, not only Barovia.
6. For new players, a message will be shown before they enter then mists from ooc character setup area to tell them that night means death.
Anyway, my two cents. I look forward to returning here.
One mist potion per ooc day would also stop people from galavanting back and forth too.
One mist potion per ooc day would also stop people from galavanting back and forth too. At least haphazardly. It doesn’t really stop high levels from running off and dungeoning to blind drive and then just coming back after for a week though. One way that people would loathe, but be effective at stopping people from crossing willy nilly would make it one way per ooc day and deciding if your dungeoning is worth missing any event or RP that *might* happen. Would be an actual deterrent to power leveling and put more focus on RPing too.
One mist potion per ooc day would also stop people from galavanting back and forth too. At least haphazardly. It doesn’t really stop high levels from running off and dungeoning to blind drive and then just coming back after for a week though. One way that people would loathe, but be effective at stopping people from crossing willy nilly would make it one way per ooc day and deciding if your dungeoning is worth missing any event or RP that *might* happen. Would be an actual deterrent to power leveling and put more focus on RPing too.
I'm not certain this is much better of a solution. There are players who appear to already be leaving and quitting playing because they're finding it difficult to get to the places they want to or need to be for their RP and gameplay, and as a member of this community I find this deeply saddening and concerning. We need to work on making this more accessible within the variables that MAB has posted, instead of more outlandish and difficult. People do not have the time to wait 24 hours and be trapped in Eastern Barovia or the Mist Camp, or anywhere else. The issue at play here is not people galavanting back and forth willy nilly, it's the concern that high level PCs who spend a great deal of time past Eastern Barovia and beyond, will arrive to Barovia to disrupt normal low level dungeons, RP, XP, and AMPC experiences.
Ideally you want something to /slow/ down their arrival, but not to such a degree where you'd need to commit IRL days to decide whether you want to stay on one side or the other.
Again, i dont like this change. it isnt working as intended, for what is my experience.
"Not working as intended" may go both ways. It could not be working by not reaching its mark, but truth is that it is too soon to say if it worked or not. We first need to collect actual data about it, then we'll reevaluate.
But lets say "it doesn't" and we need to revise it further. What alternative would you propose then under these three variables?
- One that reaches the intended goal of slowing down the return of those that leave Western Barovia.
- One that can be reasonably explained in-game.
- One that is fair for all.
The Vistani deciding to conduct business by day only and having the elixir to be potent by day only being the current explanations. We considered other avenues such as increasing the prices of the elixir, but that would only hurt lower level characters. We considered limiting buying the elixir to once a day or once a week (both IG or real-life), but that'd made it even more difficult and annoying then now where it is only unavailable every other 72 minutes.
I'm not just asking Maffa here. I'm asking everyone, if you don't like the current what would you have it be? "No restriction" is not an option. We remember what it was when there was none, and it was bad Soren explained why there is a need for one and we will not return to that state.
One mist potion per ooc day would also stop people from galavanting back and forth too. At least haphazardly. It doesn’t really stop high levels from running off and dungeoning to blind drive and then just coming back after for a week though. One way that people would loathe, but be effective at stopping people from crossing willy nilly would make it one way per ooc day and deciding if your dungeoning is worth missing any event or RP that *might* happen. Would be an actual deterrent to power leveling and put more focus on RPing too.
I'm not certain this is much better of a solution. There are players who appear to already be leaving and quitting playing because they're finding it difficult to get to the places they want to or need to be for their RP and gameplay, and as a member of this community I find this deeply saddening and concerning. We need to work on making this more accessible within the variables that MAB has posted, instead of more outlandish and difficult. People do not have the time to wait 24 hours and be trapped in Eastern Barovia or the Mist Camp, or anywhere else. The issue at play here is not people galavanting back and forth willy nilly, it's the concern that high level PCs who spend a great deal of time past Eastern Barovia and beyond, will arrive to Barovia to disrupt normal low level dungeons, RP, XP, and AMPC experiences.
Ideally you want something to /slow/ down their arrival, but not to such a degree where you'd need to commit IRL days to decide whether you want to stay on one side or the other.
1. RP XP is set to max. Bonus XP during the night (since people will probably cry inside inns/temples/houses)
2. During the night, all mobs will be in large numbers and boosted to very high levels including 20; if possible, no XP from them so they cannot be farmed (probably an OnDeath script for specific mobs that removes the xp?)
3. No resting during the nights outside. You cannot rest in a land that wants you dead. Or, allowed to rest but with an ambush mechanic with high level monsters.
4. All AMPCs and MPCs are boosted immediately to lvl 20 by default when they roll their new "form". If they got there, they deserve it. Also they have tools to deal with the night since it is their playground.
5. This applies to all areas on the server, not only Barovia.
6. For new players, a message will be shown before they enter then mists from ooc character setup area to tell them that night means death.
This is so far out there, it has to be good. :lol:
But seriously, if we were actually OOC fearful of the night, because we worry about our character dying, yea that would change things up.
I don't know if this is intentional, and apoligies if this should instead be a bug report, but the current post patch way of getting to the mist wall with a potion feels far less intuitive than the previous. very good way of doing it
Now, you have to bring a potion there, because, as it seems to be, the potion lasts for only a short time before going through (Or you have to just bring it there and do the prompt like old?) needs to somehow be messaged through what the Vistani says to you, because as of now it still says drink it next to him, which I did, then I had an unpleasant surprise of (even though I got to Barovia at 4pm) getting to the mist wall on time and realizing that I had not used the potion as I was supposed to, of which nowhere says it.
I haven't minded it up to this point, but I suppose it's good to mention that obnoxious OOC stuff like this needs to be explcitly said OOC (But, as I'll say again, I don't mind it overall, just now I get the anger it can produce when you miss the cutoff after making a good faith effort to get there), and not making people guess and then be fairly pissed when they lose out on a night of rping because no one is in the Mist Camp as of now post NCE.
Edit: Apparently it hasn't changed besides being able to be poppable later. Maybe I'm just having a chicanary moment, but I swear I never missed the mist wall under the pre patch system. (1 after Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake). But, it might be good to not mention dusk, since I think there's some confusion that I see on it on the discord. Or, as someone told me, changing it to 6 would also be a welcome change to make sense.
I'll risk being flaied alive for saying this, but I'll risk anyway.
I usually like to play around the level 7~15. I believe is is easier to do game content, prepare parties and stuff. Recently a friend joined the server and me and another friend decided to "greet" him and start new lvl 2 pcs and climb the whole ladder.
My surprise was the population of high levels in Vallaki farming the low level content (the REALLY low level content). Now, I feel bad for making this as a critic because I know that those players are high levels because I do like them a lot, but I would like to bring this issue to the radar so the CC and the developers evaluate or re-evaluate this question, even to point out that I am wrong and that this is just my biased opinion, but I do believe that the population of higher levels in Vallaki increased and I felt extremely hard to put on a group and find level 2~7 content.
I'll risk being flaied alive for saying this, but I'll risk anyway.
I usually like to play around the level 7~15. I believe is is easier to do game content, prepare parties and stuff. Recently a friend joined the server and me and another friend decided to "greet" him and start new lvl 2 pcs and climb the whole ladder.
My surprise was the population of high levels in Vallaki farming the low level content (the REALLY low level content). Now, I feel bad for making this as a critic because I know that those players are high levels because I do like them a lot, but I would like to bring this issue to the radar so the CC and the developers evaluate or re-evaluate this question, even to point out that I am wrong and that this is just my biased opinion, but I do believe that the population of higher levels in Vallaki increased and I felt extremely hard to put on a group and find level 2~7 content.
One of the biggest reasons for this is the mindset I hear a lot of people having of "wait to do crafting until 10+ because its easier." Which typically means they're going to be farming those dungeons over and over and over again for things like fire beetle mandibles, chitins, spider silks, shadow essences, etc for the "introductory" level of crafting. Since it takes longer to get out of blind drive later, it means they are forced into more "down time" either RPing (which is good dont get me wrong) or crafting if nobody is around. Which leads to people farming aforementioned low level content. Or people will do something like the burned Gremishka filled house for "a quick 1k+" if theyre low on cash. The obvious solution is for disruptive high level players to fork over gold to people just starting but theres no mechanical way to force that to happen without also punishing low levels.
I'll risk being flaied alive for saying this, but I'll risk anyway.
I usually like to play around the level 7~15. I believe is is easier to do game content, prepare parties and stuff. Recently a friend joined the server and me and another friend decided to "greet" him and start new lvl 2 pcs and climb the whole ladder.
My surprise was the population of high levels in Vallaki farming the low level content (the REALLY low level content). Now, I feel bad for making this as a critic because I know that those players are high levels because I do like them a lot, but I would like to bring this issue to the radar so the CC and the developers evaluate or re-evaluate this question, even to point out that I am wrong and that this is just my biased opinion, but I do believe that the population of higher levels in Vallaki increased and I felt extremely hard to put on a group and find level 2~7 content.
One of the biggest reasons for this is the mindset I hear a lot of people having of "wait to do crafting until 10+ because its easier." Which typically means they're going to be farming those dungeons over and over and over again for things like fire beetle mandibles, chitins, spider silks, shadow essences, etc for the "introductory" level of crafting. Since it takes longer to get out of blind drive later, it means they are forced into more "down time" either RPing (which is good dont get me wrong) or crafting if nobody is around. Which leads to people farming aforementioned low level content. Or people will do something like the burned Gremishka filled house for "a quick 1k+" if theyre low on cash. The obvious solution is for disruptive high level players to fork over gold to people just starting but theres no mechanical way to force that to happen without also punishing low levels.
A friend gave a polemic suggestion that I'll repeat here:
Create a script that makes killing enemies too weak for your level in certain areas to push the cap up, making harder to get of the xp cap or even putting you in sd.
This seemed extreme to me, but would help to avoid a level 12 destroying low level content casually while claiming to be in vallaki "for the rp".
Wouldnt another script be hard on server resources? I mean there is still tons of content around Vallaki for a level 12. You can get XP from the werebat lords and the alhoon lair until like 15, maybe 16. Ice Palace is probably similar on a high spawn. The problem is entirely people wanting to save their gold instead of giving it to low levels to buy gear for the introductory crafts they felt they didnt have the gold to keep up on at low levels which is total BS and it can be done relatively easily.
It's not necessarily their fault. If it's quicker to do it themselves than hire people who could get themselves killed and never return with the resources while one waits for them why would one wait? And if they hunt for them as well as buy what was collected when they were offline, that's even quicker still.
While it has been said before, I would like to add to the point of blocking the mist path to Barovia.
We do have a very active community of players that spend a significant time of the day ingame and those are the once most visible when it comes to feedback.
As someone who currently does not have much time to spare for gaming due to work, I would like to point out once more how devastating the mist blockage is to anyone who only has an hour a day to play.
Logging in to find the wrong time of the day to go through the mist for an event or meet up with others for some scheduled RP will just break the game for you. And frankly it will make me think twice about even trying to play on Potm when I dont have the luxury of plenty spare time.
This does not really become apparent when you have the time to spare and I hardly noticed the change myself when I did, which is why I wanted to point out once more how this change destroys RP opportunities, especially for those who are not the most visible part of the server community.