Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist

Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: stefan pall on May 11, 2022, 08:34:23 AM

Title: Inflation suggestion
Post by: stefan pall on May 11, 2022, 08:34:23 AM
Everybody is saying economy is kinda broken due to endless amount of coin, imbalance low-high levels, gold flowing up, not enough sinks.

Here a an idea:

Decrease gold rewards/selling prices/bank deposits by a factor of 10.

Increase cost of living by:
1.  making foods/drinks necessary and more expensive - not an RP commodity.

2.  Rentals to rest expensive, not 10-20 coins.
  Increase hours necessary between 2 rests to like 8-12 hours IG.

If we want inflation down,  a character should
strive  to make money to cover  the cost of resting / getting food from one adventure to the next.

Not going once out and banking like 3 - 5 k when a rental is 10 coins and food is free if you hunt deer.

That s a long term solution for keeping wealth going up and up and up,  and it s not dependent on player base.

Shift the focus from making easy money to pay exorbitant amounts on gear
To making money to be able to rest properly/get necessities.

I imagine it would work better than artificial sinks like renting a mansion - which some chars would never do anyway.

And it would be a choice.

Make it necessary to spend coin.
Not a choice.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: ZSRunner on May 11, 2022, 08:40:06 AM
Everybody is saying economy is kinda broken due to endless amount of coin, imbalance low-high levels, gold flowing up, not enough sinks.

Here a an idea:

Decrease gold rewards/selling prices/bank deposits by a factor of 10.

Increase cost of living by:
1.  making foods/drinks necessary and more expensive - not an RP commodity.

2.  Rentals to rest expensive, not 10-20 coins.
  Increase hours necessary between 2 rests to like 8-12 hours IG.

If we want inflation down,  a character should
strive  to make money to cover  the cost of resting / getting food from one adventure to the next.

Not going once out and banking like 3 - 5 k when a rental is 10 coins and food is free if you hunt deer.

That s a long term solution for keeping wealth going up and up and up,  and it s not dependent on player base.

Shift the focus from making easy money to pay exorbitant amounts on gear
To making money to be able to rest properly/get necessities.

I imagine it would work better than artificial sinks like renting a mansion - which some chars would never do anyway.

And it would be a choice.

Make it necessary to spend coin.
Not a choice.

Making money is not easy for everyone. Just as in the real world, we all have different ideas of what wealth is. Some only ever accumulate modest sums of coin and this sort of thing would be prohibitive and frankly taxing. The economy is fine as it is IMO. Players can easily effect the economy in positive or negative ways. I had a merchant a while back that was quite popular in spite of the fact that she charged significantly higher prices than others. I know of other tradesmen and merchants who do the same. In that they are able to bleed out some coins from their fellow adventurers and often times you'll see that money goes to other places, not back into player hands.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Madame Trousers Son on May 11, 2022, 08:44:52 AM
Gold sinks should hit deep pockets; I don't think there's a problem with the low level economy. Also carrots are probably better than sticks.

If anyone can think of fun, setting authentic ways to encourage players to spend big amounts of gold, though, that'd be cool to hear.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: William Roberts on May 11, 2022, 08:55:48 AM
Quote
Increase cost of living by:
1.  making foods/drinks necessary and more expensive - not an RP commodity.

2.  Rentals to rest expensive, not 10-20 coins.
  Increase hours necessary between 2 rests to like 8-12 hours IG.

If we want inflation down,  a character should
strive  to make money to cover  the cost of resting / getting food from one adventure to the next.

Not going once out and banking like 3 - 5 k when a rental is 10 coins and food is free if you hunt deer.

That s a long term solution for keeping wealth going up and up and up,  and it s not dependent on player base.

Shift the focus from making easy money to pay exorbitant amounts on gear
To making money to be able to rest properly/get necessities.

Increasing the cost of living *is* inflation, so that's not really a cure for inflation.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: ZSRunner on May 11, 2022, 08:58:02 AM
Gold sinks should hit deep pockets; I don't think there's a problem with the low level economy. Also carrots are probably better than sticks.

If anyone can think of fun, setting authentic ways to encourage players to spend big amounts of gold, though, that'd be cool to hear.

High level crafted items. Oh wait, that's already a thing!
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Madame Trousers Son on May 11, 2022, 08:59:40 AM
High level crafted items. Oh wait, that's already a thing!

Not quite... craft markets don't take money out of the system. They just transfer the money around between players.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: William Roberts on May 11, 2022, 09:06:40 AM
Inflation is too much money chasing too few goods, so the cure for it is either decrease the money supply or increase the supply of goods.

An easy way to decrease the supply of money is to get rid of NPCs who buy stuff from PCs or to reduce the amount they pay for such goods. That is probably a horrible idea, however, because those who already have a lot of money would be unchallenged in their wealth. New PCs could never hope to obtain such princely sums, perhaps making it even harder for players to closure grandfathered PCs.

So inflation is kind of good in that it devalues the huge stockpiles already accumulated and gives incentive to keep on keeping on.

If inflation does have bad game effects that need correcting, then the carrot (increasing the supply of sought-after goods) is indeed probably better. That creates a different form of inflation, however: power creep.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Swan on May 11, 2022, 09:14:00 AM
This would alienate a lot of people from the server, and would simply add another layer onto why so many people already consider PoTM extremely unfriendly to new players. No thanks.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: MAB77 on May 11, 2022, 09:21:40 AM
Yeah it's a difficult thing to balance.

Decreasing gold reward isn't really possible because of the way the loot works in NWN. It's tied to the gold value of items, decreasing this means decreasing the chance of high value loot to drop. We could however decrease the amount of gold given back by NPCs for items they buy. Whether or not that's a good idea remains to be evaluated. As was stated, the issue is more at higher levels and that may hurt lower level players.

Adding gold sinks never quite had the impact we wanted. They mostly invite players to grind further for their gold and we don't seek to encourage this behavior.

Good use of your gold that I can think of:
- Invest in lower level players. Equipping them and financing their crafting operations.
- Give millions in gold/rare items to NPCs in exchange for future favors.

I had this idea once of a monthly upkeep scaled according to one's level, and of monthly interest rates at banks. But that would cause more grief than anything, and the system was easy to exploit to avoid paying it.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: HirtZirk on May 11, 2022, 09:22:16 AM
Since I started playing I thougth about this.
Its seems that at some point old player have infinite money and start giving random new players gold for no proportionate reason.
I liked it a lot and helped me start very nicely but it made me question it.

Shouldnt the bank just start taking money from the account proportionatly to the ammount deposited  per periode (ingame year for example)(stradh tax or whatever) ?

This could really empower faction to act as banks and so on...
just brainstorming here.

--- PS : I posted at same time MAB posted so excuse me if I raised a point that was also adressed in hes message ---
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: MAB77 on May 11, 2022, 09:26:27 AM
They already take an amount based on the sums deposited.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: ZSRunner on May 11, 2022, 09:26:52 AM
Yeah it's a difficult thing to balance.

Decreasing gold reward isn't really possible because of the way the loot works in NWN. It's tied to the gold value of items, decreasing this means decreasing the chance of high value loot to drop. We could however decrease the amount of gold given back by NPCs for items they buy. Whether or not that's a good idea remains to be evaluated. As was stated, the issue is more at higher levels and that may hurt lower level players.

Adding gold sinks never quite had the impact we wanted. They mostly invite players to grind further for their gold and we don't seek to encourage this behavior.

Good use of your gold that I can think of:
- Invest in lower level players. Equipping them and financing their crafting operations.
- Give millions in gold/rare items to NPCs in exchange for future favors.

I had this idea once of a monthly upkeep scaled according to one's level, and of monthly interest rates at banks. But that would cause more grief than anything, and the system was easy to exploit to avoid paying it.

My noble has donated more money than she has earned to various charities. It keeps her humble and modest.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: HirtZirk on May 11, 2022, 09:30:51 AM
They already take an amount based on the sums deposited.

Sorry yes, meant originaly per period (example in game year or just IRL)
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Merry Munchkin on May 11, 2022, 10:02:33 AM
I don't know what kind of server metrics the developers have access to, but a relatively simple metric to track is total gold available on the server at any given moment.  If this is consistently increasing you have inflation, if it is consistently decreasing you have deflation, and if it is more or less at a steady state, you have a balanced in-game economy (all the gold that is being won by players is being absorbed by the available gold sinks).  Moderate up-down fluctuations are normal, but what you don't want to see is the money supply growing or decreasing steadily in one direction.

The server cannot, and should not, police the earning or spending behaviors of the general populace unless there is a steady move towards inflation or deflation.  The goal is a reasonable steady state, since that maintains the relative value of coin for player-to-player transactions.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: tylernwn on May 11, 2022, 10:06:08 AM
Based on my own observations, the highest volume of money that enters the market comes from professional-merchant characters selling items (unwanted items from adventures) to NPC vendors.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: FinalHeaven on May 11, 2022, 10:07:59 AM
I'll preface this by saying I almost universally play characters capable of Ninja Looting, but I also don't really maximize it as much as I could because I am lazy.

There's definitely some exorbitant price tags out there.  I'm not sure I'd agree that the player economy as a whole is terrible.  Especially lately, things don't seem too bad at the lower levels in regards to purchasing potions and alchemy supplies, or even basic tier equipment.  It's when you start aiming for a few specific items that things get more noticeable.

I think the only real way to force a change on item prices is a concerted effort to simply stop paying those prices.  This is obviously a hard choice, because most people crave the best gear for their builds.

That being said, more interesting gold sinks are always a good thing.  The problem there is that the suggestions often don't seem to ever fit in with the developer vision of POTM.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Dumas on May 11, 2022, 10:13:47 AM
I feel like so called legacy gear causes huge fluctuations in the player economy that just leave a lot of players scrambling to catch up. Something for example like Druid gear that gives bonus mid-high level bonus spells will suddenly turn up after sitting in an old characters inventory for years, get auctioned for 100,000, and then drive up other items in a sort of trickle down affect. These sort of things are disruptive for the perceived player value of items, for better or worse.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Merry Munchkin on May 11, 2022, 10:24:06 AM
Based on my own observations, the highest volume of money that enters the market comes from professional-merchant characters selling items (unwanted items from adventures) to NPC vendors.

This can't be true.  By definition, all of the coin in the game comes originally from loot drops.  The player to player economy is simply trading that same stockpile of gold back and forth.  The only actual increase in money flow comes from loot drops, and the only outflow of money from the economy comes from gold sinks and selling to NPC merchants.  This is why the only concern should be:  is the inflow equal to the outflow?  This ought to be a relatively simple metric to track system wide on the server.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Maragrouf on May 11, 2022, 10:25:14 AM
2.  Rentals to rest expensive, not 10-20 coins.
  Increase hours necessary between 2 rests to like 8-12 hours IG.

That would impact Dungeonning more than Economy. I mean, sure, you can make Inn's rooms more expensive. But changing the Rest Cooldown period would just mean screwing up the current "Dungeon Balancing", with spells lasting about as long as it takes for a rest to be possible.

As for prices of commodities... Let's keep in mind that those are also supposed to make sense from an IC point of view. Not Barovian Farmer would be able to afford food if it cost like a hundred fangs for a bowl of soup. Of course, as some said when we discussed the subject over on Discord : you can just suspend your disbelief and assume prices displayed are what ADVENTURERS (or Outlanders) would have to pay. After all, if they can spend Hundreds of Thousands of gold for some trinket, they could spare a few hundred for warm food and comfy beds.

Now as for Player-Based Economy... Can't say anything nice about it, so I'll just keep quiet.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Madame Trousers Son on May 11, 2022, 10:30:56 AM
I feel like so called legacy gear causes huge fluctuations in the player economy that just leave a lot of players scrambling to catch up.

It's not just legacy gear, though. There's still some ultra-rare items that drop. Frankly, most of that stuff doesn't even see auction. They're traded for things far more valuable than mere gold.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Anarcoplayba on May 11, 2022, 11:01:48 AM
I strongly believe that "money sinks" would only serve to make hugh levels grinding mire for gold (further worsening the high level soloing low kevel areas problem).

I, personally, don't think the "inflation" is true a problem for it touches mostly items truly legendary and hard to drop. I've seen greater amulets of thoth coming from 15.000 to 8.000 due to its flooding in the market. The problem are the items that ONLY drop in ridicously hard dungeons.

The easy answer would be "make drops great again!", But that would be against the server ideology.

I'm all for equiping everyone with top tier gear, but that is not true to the setting. I remember when a masterwork rapier (+1) was the prize of a fencing tournment in dementlieu and the winner was deemed lucky because we did not have the amount of mercykillers and rapiers of the high road around.

There is only so much gold can buy. Truly epic gear will still be object of auctions.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Cody on May 11, 2022, 11:31:59 AM
Based on my own observations, the highest volume of money that enters the market comes from professional-merchant characters selling items (unwanted items from adventures) to NPC vendors.

This can't be true.  By definition, all of the coin in the game comes originally from loot drops.  The player to player economy is simply trading that same stockpile of gold back and forth.  The only actual increase in money flow comes from loot drops, and the only outflow of money from the economy comes from gold sinks and selling to NPC merchants.  This is why the only concern should be:  is the inflow equal to the outflow?  This ought to be a relatively simple metric to track system wide on the server.

To be honest my ninjalooting character has been reaching a point he has more money than he knows what to do with from selling to players and NPCs.

He would buy expensive stuff from other players if it is actually worth the coin, but so far hasn't met anyone selling the things he needs.

For now I really only have varnishes and potions to spend on, everything else is apparently too rare!
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Merry Munchkin on May 11, 2022, 01:29:19 PM
I was probably imprecise in my language earlier, referring to money and coin, when I should have described it as "value".  There are actually two concepts that are related but different, "value" and "liquidity".  Value is like GDP for a country -- the total value (as determined by the loot tables) of all the drops in the server.  The second is liquidity -- most of the loot has to be liquidated in order to have a useful economy (a pure barter economy would be grossly inefficient), and NPC merchants allow you to exchange value for liquidity at a pennies-on-the-dollar exchange rate.  Liquidity is effectively the cash money supply available at any given moment.  Since the overall cash money supply is dependent entirely on the value (GDP) that the server is generating, but constantly tracking the money supply is not easy, efficient or necessarily effective, tracking the value generated by the server (all inputs) and all the value being taken out of the server permanently via gold sinks (all outputs) ought to be an easier task.

I caution that drawing any parallels to "real" economies is going to break down at a certain point when you are dealing with artificial, virtual game economies, because they do not have the same market forces acting on them (except in the most rudimentary ways) and don't have the same market correction mechanisms that a real market has.  For example, in real life if a money supply is growing too large, the price of money (i.e. interest rates) falls and it spurs more borrowing and lending, and more consumption.  However, POTM has no mechanism for lending or interest rates to respond to increases in liquidity, nor does it have a federal reserve bank to tinker with interest rates.  As a consequence, we cannot simply act as if this is a "free market" and let things roll however wild the ride.  Nevertheless, I am not an advocate of blunt force trauma to correct perceived market disruptions -- I think the optimal way to control a game economy from rampant inflation or deflation is to simply balance inputs (loot drop value) to outputs (gold sinks).  There will need to be some margin in favor of gold sinks, simply because even though value is exchanged for liquidity at a discount by NPC merchants (i.e. they buy low and sell high), a lot of loot drops are not recycled back to the community at a higher price and therefore are not effective gold sinks (see my thoughts below for a more thorough explanation of this).  Thus, the outputs have to be larger than the inputs to account for this.  It will take some tinkering to sort out exactly where the balancing point would optimally be.

Another factor to consider is to avoid loot drops that are effectively "junk" (i.e. they get exchanged for liquidity, but will never be purchased by the player base).  Tarnished wedding bands and similar ilk are an example of loot that will only be sold and never purchased, thus increasing liquidity but not functioning as a gold sink in return.  Loot that has a purpose and value that would incline other players to want to purchase it (even at a higher price), thereby taking liquidity out of the system, is preferable to loot that is merely sold and has no life beyond that.  Consumables are usually a preferred option (especially if they were made stackable and thereby more easy to carry and quickslot), but I recognize there are a lot of "flavor" loot drops that people might play with for novelty before discarding.

I will note also that while some consumables (oil of conquering glory and similar) have a value and may be wanted by lower levels to augment their limited casting abilities, they are often simply disposed of with NPC merchants so that gold can be split by groups, and repurchasing can be expensive for the low levels that actually could use it (and the fact that many are one-shot or limited shot consumables that don't stack is an inconvenience).
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Erika on May 11, 2022, 03:38:40 PM
I think this is more a perception problem than anything else. Even at the highest levels of play, I don't believe most do not have endless hordes of money, and if they do? Why does that matter? Shouldn't it be ic for a long, thriving hero to be fabulously wealthy? I don't even say this as a wealthy high level, it's fairly reasonable some have assets in the millions, and others simply do not. While certainly, it can be frustrating to see extremely rare drops to go for obscene (not really that obscene most of the time tbh) prices, those items still do drop, and most often these items end up being sold far lower by merchant characters here and there.

I think generally /not/ having money sinks is better, because having a dragon's horde currently is something worthwhile only for ic reasons. There reasonably is an upper limit where the amount of gold you end up earning will give you practically no real reward anymore. That being said, providing an ic plot money sink for characters is never a bad thing in my opinion, as those tend to lean more at the moment, and do not encourage excessive grinding on the norm, only for that instance.

As a player of a merchant character for some time, I personally think the economy is fairly decent. The majority of decent equipment is reasonably cheap to gold income rates, while fantastic items simply take more time and luck to acquire, which is probably how it should be. It's not like some high level buys up all my wares of lower-tier equipment or something, so supply is only a factor to how much work merchants want to do. Besides this, crafted equipment is flat out dirt cheap bar like the super-rare metals, which often are just a luxury in of themselves, not critical by any stretch of the imagination.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Anastian on May 11, 2022, 05:57:09 PM
I strongly disagree with any further changes to the economy for the following reasons:

1) As stated above, only very few characters have several millions in gold. It's the same characters cited in several posts who actually have a TON of hours sinked into, with a LOT of personal investment, and that have been long running and long standing for a while. I myself never even reached a million on my characters, but I would feel really bad taking away the effort and achievement poured to reach several millions in GPs on one character

2) I'd argue it's a matter of false perception: there are a handful of extremely rare items that cost that much, but they give only a limited edge over enchanted second tier gear. Sure, these new players might have a hard time being able to purchase this handful of items but are they really necessary to enjoy the server?

3) Really. How badly has this affected your gameplay, in the end?

In general, fully against gold sinks (they simply do not serve the purpose), fully toward keeping things as it is. It is still time consuming to accumulate that amount of wealth! Like really, I have all the merchant feats and high appraise on one of my character and ok, I never focused on grinding for more gold, but I've RPed an active merchant and still I have never reached 1 million in cash!
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Madame Trousers Son on May 11, 2022, 06:26:29 PM
I agree that compulsory gold sinks won't improve player experience, but I think voluntary gold sinks like more rentals or anything that encourages people to splash the cash to create fun is a good idea.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Anarcoplayba on May 11, 2022, 08:19:44 PM
I agree that compulsory gold sinks won't improve player experience, but I think voluntary gold sinks like more rentals or anything that encourages people to splash the cash to create fun is a good idea.

I know tha this is not the case, but I'd spend hundreds of thousands of gold in charity to see my ocr lower.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: zDark Shadowz on May 11, 2022, 08:31:24 PM
Just some basic points on game economy, specifically.

It is already broken.

There are people that struggle, some kind of inflation deal is just telling lowbies their twelve fang left is worth even less, so I'd prefer not to punish people just kicking off their career further by having all merchants affected by some universal valuation and devaluation score.

The economy has things like scrolls and crafting supplies, rentals and NPC factions (and AMPCs) alongside characters that retire indefinitely with their stockpiles to erase and quarantine wealth.

The problem is the generation.

NPC merchants have infinite pockets.

I know that curbing the merchants to have their own limited gold pool isn't an option for this server. Works for many others running lower magic servers due to resets and lower population numbers, but not quite here.

~

So I think the method to halt this gold generation, needs to be some kind of activity value at the specific merchants.

As an example, X amount of things sold incurs its own "OCR" penalty against that infinite gold generating merchant, that lowers the percentage of gold one can receive from a merchant until it cools off.

Tie it into the appraise functions that already exist, as this IS a limiting formula that exists.

~

Now if people start trading around goods between each other before selling to get around it, so what? Larger parties working together should be able to get their golds' worth, but not everyone will have appraise scores maxxed out, and eventually everyone in a given group will start hitting into some larger deficits.

This will mean stockpilers will hoard junk items over gold, which are a lot more fun to pickpocket for AMPCs, and have to manage their inventory weight and space more efficiently, causing more self-limiting effects on how much "wealth" someone can pump & dump into the world at any given time.

~~

What's more, it makes sense. In the shoes of a shopkeep, if someone comes in and keeps emptying the same trash to your store, you're going to pay less for their goods until you've had time to move the stock you already have, you've already been shown there's no supply or demand issue for them to reasonably markup. Those goods become worth less the more that is brought in.

~~

This value could also work inversely too, this heightened OCR value could give people discounts to buy their existing goods (up to a point) so if there were consumables from that store they wanted to buy after all, it wouldn't cost them that much.

Frequent suppliers of stock may not get paid as much but they'll get discounts on goods for a bit, and it could function as a quicker way to cool off the penalty, buying things one might actually need from the merchant.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: William Roberts on May 12, 2022, 09:07:31 AM
A too-complex surgery for a mostly cosmetic problem.

Players have been complaining that inflation is broken throughout the server's history, as evidenced by this brilliant treatise (https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=41315.msg521763#msg521763) written by a dashing newcomer to the server almost seven years ago. I hope the years have added wisdom to that younger man's sincere and earnest expostulations.

Indeed, can anyone produce any truly dire effects inflation has caused in the interim?

Creating more ways for players to spend the wealth they accumulate is a positive response because it makes their experience richer. NFTs anyone? In contrast, somehow punishing the accumulation of GP--one way of scoring the game--penalizes players for doing what the game is designed for them to do: adventure as a means to gain treasure and levels.

Likewise, reward should remain commensurate with risk, so that's always a balance to be tweaked (see the recent discussions about the desert huecvas).

In-game prices are only arbitrary numbers. Add a decimal place, take away a decimal place--what is the real effect? What is meaningful is the time players must spend to achieve some arbitrary X, whether that X is affording a rental, buying some valued piece of equipment, etc.

So a meaningful debate is whether it has become too easy or too difficult timewise to do X, not whether pretend turnips should cost 1 rather than 2 pretend gold pieces.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Maragrouf on May 12, 2022, 09:17:26 AM
You did not just bring NFTs into this thread... YOU DID NOT BRING NFTS AS A MEAN TO JUSTIFY PLAYER BASED ECONOMY, DID YOU?!
(Please. Take this reply as a joke punch in Will's arm... I'm not actually mad or yelling. Please don't give me Cocoa and Donuts QAQ")
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Merry Munchkin on May 12, 2022, 10:37:58 AM
A too-complex surgery for a mostly cosmetic problem.

Players have been complaining that inflation is broken throughout the server's history, as evidenced by this brilliant treatise (https://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=41315.msg521763#msg521763) written by a dashing newcomer to the server almost seven years ago. I hope the years have added wisdom to that younger man's sincere and earnest expostulations.

Indeed, can anyone produce any truly dire effects inflation has caused in the interim?

Creating more ways for players to spend the wealth they accumulate is a positive response because it makes their experience richer. NFTs anyone? In contrast, somehow punishing the accumulation of GP--one way of scoring the game--penalizes players for doing what the game is designed for them to do: adventure as a means to gain treasure and levels.

Likewise, reward should remain commensurate with risk, so that's always a balance to be tweaked (see the recent discussions about the desert huecvas).

In-game prices are only arbitrary numbers. Add a decimal place, take away a decimal place--what is the real effect? What is meaningful is the time players must spend to achieve some arbitrary X, whether that X is affording a rental, buying some valued piece of equipment, etc.

So a meaningful debate is whether it has become too easy or too difficult timewise to do X, not whether pretend turnips should cost 1 rather than 2 pretend gold pieces.

I don't think anyone was advocating for punishing the accumulation of wealth, or making any sort of "compulsory gold sinks".  As a practical matter, any server needs to balance inflows and outflows, lest you have a critical spiral of too much or too little value in the system, but overall I have not seen any drastic warning signs of a recession/depression or rampant inflation.  Nevertheless, it is something that mechanically needs to be monitored --- many MMORPG have had virtual economy crises because of failures to pay attention to such things.  This should be relatively easy to accomplish with a sufficient number of voluntary gold sinks that people find RP value in, and moderating the frequency and value of loot drops.  No other tinkering is really required (like price setting, compulsory taxation, etc.)
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: ZSRunner on May 12, 2022, 10:45:10 AM
I agree that compulsory gold sinks won't improve player experience, but I think voluntary gold sinks like more rentals or anything that encourages people to splash the cash to create fun is a good idea.

I know tha this is not the case, but I'd spend hundreds of thousands of gold in charity to see my ocr lower.

If you're donating and taking screens of this, you might be able to request a DM do exactly that for you at some point.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: dutchy on May 12, 2022, 12:20:00 PM
aaah these never get old.

honestly why bother?
some people will give into their greed.
others see it as a sport.
some are just endless walking piggy banks.
and then there are those that are saving up those millions for that rare item.

this is not a problem that can be solved, hell i'm not even sure if it is a problem.
it's fake currency in a fake place, it hold no value what so ever.

sure you can make all sorts of systems and more way's to sink fake money in, but people will for different reasons still try to fill that bank.

you want to be a problem solver towards this?
rob the bank (honestly been done be for and ppl lost all their coins)
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: HirtZirk on May 12, 2022, 01:58:37 PM
To comment after the two last post which I tend to agree but would like to give a touch of my personal experience.

I agree the economy  is solid as it is for me no problem there I would have perhaps NPC buy crafted item sligthly more in line with the usefullness of the item but definetly sell them for a price related to usefulness.

I also love that some item are super rare I would even go as far as not to be sad if some were unique also could have unique item broken instead of xp for the sake of enchanting.

I guess this all discussion had the effect of making me revise my complaint that some character to have an appropriate approach to money. I guess that I can now accept that as a valid trait of personality and what my character feels is valuable is not to some much richer character.

What I still beleive is that wealth should definetly attract attention, if not of Stradh and the like it should definetly make it into plots.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: ScalesofEquilibrium on May 12, 2022, 11:04:52 PM
I'm just going to leave this picture here.

(https://cdn.obsidianportal.com/assets/185878/holy-symbol-abadar.jpg)


Just remember, everyone made fun of Abadar and Senna when she was worried about Inflation years ago.
Praise Abadar. Remain Vigilant.
There is no greater darkness in the night than the threat and arrival of inflation.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Rocket on May 13, 2022, 01:13:29 AM
How about pointing out the game state by looking to any other similar game economy.

Guild Wars 1 is a game of constant farming and dungeon clears which reward items. The game's main updates finalized around 2010 so the scope of endgame farming has not changed since then. The game does have its gold sinks, but they certainly do not outweigh the gold produced. The endgame treasures are farmed and inflation continues to occur on that game. In Guild Wars 1, an account has one storage bank shared among all characters. Hence, wealth is shared among all characters of an account.

Everquest upto a specific release such as Vellek is similar. Constant farming of the same endgame items over and over. Gold sinks not doing enough. Wealth is shared across characters.

In Ravenloft, it is very similar to the above MINUS the sharing of wealth to your new characters. So what we get is just like any other MMO, there is inflation. However this is magnified because any progress made on a prior character does not transfer over to a new character. And because of this, the gap of wealth earned is much greater between a new character compared to an old character.

So then you are kind of dealing with two economies at once.
1. An economy where players are just there to grow, RP, learn, have fun. This economy is very much like what you have during an NCE.
2. An economy with whales as the foundation, big wealth trades, hoarding, monopolizing, etc.  Mostly observed around the Mist Camp and Port.

With 2, your way into this economy is to work towards valuables that 2 says are valuable. Acquire them and trade.

And with Guild Wars 1 or Everquest, the inflation is never stopped. It won't be stopped here either. (unless something drastic happens like a bank robbery)
The question is really, do you care that much to worry about it? Or just get to work like the rest of us and play the economy for what it is.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: PrimetheGrime on May 13, 2022, 03:30:04 AM
Im not particularly interested in spending any more time than I do making money. I'd rather have the money I need and roleplay which is infinitely more fun
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Dardonas on May 13, 2022, 03:34:49 AM
I think the only real gold sink that needs to be in the game is that editing your outfits and appearance should scale based on your total level.  This will make it not only so that low levels can edit their outfits and be more immersed in the world, but it will also provide a steady drain for higher level PCs who have no issue with gold.

As of right now, and I know that I've seen Developers comment otherwise, this is NOT the case.  Editing one's outfit is based on the total cost of the item as a whole--and only if it is a droppable item on the loot tables.  If it is crafted, let alone enchanted, the prices are just laughable.

Edit:  Another possible gold sink that might help other topics that have been coming up is having it so that Vallaki Trade Licenses also scale in cost based on level.  It wouldn't be much, but since trade licenses are renewed often it could steadily drain money while encouraging higher levels to leave the area if they don't want to pay.  Chock it up to Strahd wanting outlanders to pay their share of taxes.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Maffa on May 13, 2022, 06:51:36 AM
The only inflation lever i can think of are taxes.

Arelith has market stalls where people can put their stuff up to sale and the transaction withholds a percentage of the sale.

If inflation is an issue (is it?) this is a way to put it down.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: stefan pall on May 13, 2022, 06:58:03 AM
I think compulsory sinks would be much more effective though.

Like maybe scale with level:
 - bank fees
 - lodgings
 - transport

That would take coin out of the system from people that actually have it.

It s ver hard to have any respect for prices when you can make a ton of coin out of nothing - like a 10 min solo dungeon run, or selling one expensive item you literally don't care about.

That would bring high levels more in line with lower levels in terms of coin actually having significance.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: MAB77 on May 13, 2022, 07:23:36 AM
Not a practical idea for armor modding. Players would only outsource that to lower level characters. I am in favor of increasing the cost of trading licences for non-Barovian. But it would not make sense to scale trading licenses cast based on one's level, a level is an OOC game mechanic and NPCs cannot know at a glance if a PC is high level or not. This would however remain an in-game choice if you choose to pay the increased price or not.

Garda and Gendarme should definitively up the cost of their fines, and "collect taxes for the Count" from vendors. They should return the lion share of the confiscated sums to the Burgomeister/Council of Brilliance instead of keeping it. Although this too should remain an in-game choice.

Neither of these addresses inflation though. Not everyone's a trader, not everyone gets on the bad side of Garda/Gendarmes, and of those many don't bother to pay their fines and simply escape.

There is no avoiding the generation of gold within the game. There is little gold sink that would be fun or efficient if imposed. I am not suggesting this to occur per say. But if the perception is really that there is too much gold in game. The simplest correction to do would be to remove 80% of gold from all characters and bank accounts. Protecting a minimal amount up to 10k, so it's mosty high level players that'd be impacted. Could just be an in-game curse that made gold to rust. Again, I'm not suggesting that, but if the player base insists hard enough Į\_(ツ)_/Į...

I'm in favor of higher rates for bank fees, lodgings and transport. Though care must be taken not to make those prohobitive to low level characters, so there is a limit to what can be accomplished. I'm also in favor of a limit on the amount of gold one can carry on oneself, thus forcing people to use the banks. (But I fear this may be hard-coded and may not be doable.) We could reduce the return on selling items to NPCs so gold is not generated as quickly.

//Added a few things.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: JustMonika on May 13, 2022, 08:41:11 AM
The Dementliuse Gendarme's were asked to abolish all their fees for merchants by the DM Team.

It is now ironically, cheaper to have a trading business in Dementlieu than Valaki. I'm not sure what the rational was DM side, if I was to guess I would say it was to break down barriers to creating roleplay, but I personally found the challenge of needng to secure funding for a trading permit to be part of the fun (A great reason to get a noble sponsor, for example.)
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Merry Munchkin on May 13, 2022, 08:45:02 AM
MAB, I hate taxes, both in real life and in fake life.  However, if people want compulsory gold sinks, there is one potential game mechanic that has its roots in actual historical reality.  All the way up to the creation of modern centralized coinage, city-states created their own unique coinage, and trade/taxes were typically authorized only in the coinage of the realm.  There were moneychangers that would legally convert foreign currency to local currency and skim a percentage off the top.  One way to implement this mechanic is to have unique tokens for Vallaki, Port, etc.  You need to have the token for NPC merchants and banks assigned to that locality to buy/sell/interact with you.  You can only have one token at a time, and you have to go to the local moneychanger to switch tokens to your current locality, for a fee of course (a percentage of wealth currently carried).  This would most strongly impact those characters that travel a LOT between localities, and conduct trade between those localities, which would typically be high levels.  Obviously, this would not impact player-to-player trades, since there is no way to police that.  The token merely serves as a trigger that unlocks the local NPC merchants for trade.  The NPC dialog could be something like "I am sorry but we do not accept those coins here in [name your realm].  You should see so-and-so the moneychanger first".  You could use the banks for this function.  This would incentivize players to maintain accounts in local banks in local currencies to avoid significant moneychanging fees, but at the same time they would have to pay bank fees to have money in their accounts.  Win-win (at least from the government's perspective).  You pay if you carry your wealth with you.  You pay if you have local bank accounts.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Dale on May 13, 2022, 08:57:30 AM
- Invest in lower level players. Equipping them and financing their crafting operations.
This. The low level experience can be rough, especially for players without a group, giving them a hand could be pocket change in your eyes but a huge boost to them.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: ZSRunner on May 13, 2022, 09:30:42 AM
I think this is a problem that doesn't actually exist, much like many of the other "problems" that come up in these forums.

With an increase in population, dungeons to explore, crafts to create and so on, inflation is natural.

It's only a problem if some groups of players have an inability to acquire the gold needed to survive and thrive. I've not witnessed this and therefore don't believe there's an issue with the current state of things.

Players have more control over the economy than they realize. Adjust your prices to match what you think things should be worth. Work with your fellow players to trade goods or services rather than coin. If you feel you've got too much coin, see it removed somehow.

There's no need to burden the DM team or the Devs to conjure up ways to tax players or control an economy that is doing fine.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: PrimetheGrime on May 13, 2022, 11:15:25 AM
I'm telling you now, people (myself included) would -hate- having to pay more to customize than a lower level simply because we're higher level. High levels does not = lots of money.  The less time people need to spend making money is the less time spent not doing cooler things like events, roleplay, faction roleplay, pvp and what have you. I have never considered making money fun and it's most times been a chore akin to a job that I have to do to get to the fun part of my day.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Kireek on May 13, 2022, 12:43:27 PM
Not all players are equally savy at getting money. I hit my first million by level 11, I mean are we going to be designing the economy around players like me? Which is what people are complaining about? Just.. no.


And to be frank, if you think the money issue is a problem, wait till you actually try and get rare items, becuase money doesn't mean anything, it's trade in kind. And that to get any rare or old peices of equipment you just have to know people to trade around and sort of do these crazy daisy chain item trades sometimes just to POSSIBLY get something you would find useful.

(Aka What I mean to say is inflation only really matters if people are consistently buying things with gold- but they arn't Gold has no value after a certain point.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: HirtZirk on May 13, 2022, 01:35:28 PM
...

I'm in favor of higher rates for bank fees, lodgings and transport. Though care must be taken not to make those prohobitive to low level characters, so there is a limit to what can be accomplished. I'm also in favor of a limit on the amount of gold one can carry on oneself, thus forcing people to use the banks. (But I fear this may be hard-coded and may not be doable.) We could reduce the return on selling items to NPCs so gold is not generated as quickly.

...

Actually I was thinking the oposite. Gold you carry on you makes your action have bigger consequence and can create more plot.
I would on contrary recomend capping what the different banks can hold.
If an extremely weathy individual want to put everything in the bank he should spread it on several bank (bringing some disconfort).

this is in my opinion both creadible in game and would make people carry more cash or find other way....

i was surprise there is not a market for bountied Items that would sell more expensive than the reward because it is a asset....I digress.

TL;DR
Basically Cap bank accounts (level to be defined). People will loose money adventuring and money will become more prominent plot material.

PS : I agree to post saying current economy is fine, doesnt mean we cannot improve it for everyones enjoyment. :)
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: MAB77 on May 13, 2022, 01:53:04 PM
i was surprise there is not a market for bountied Items that would sell more expensive than the reward because it is a asset....I digress.

This is easily explained. Turning in bounties gives XP, but only to those present when the bountied item was found. Turning in a bountied item when you have not been marked as participating in a quest will only give you the gold. There is therefore no reasons whatsoever to buy said item at a higher price in the first place, just as it is simply more profitable to get both the XP and gold by turning it in instead of selling it to others.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Knight of Rhodes on May 14, 2022, 08:10:35 AM
This is so sadistically beautiful that I love it.

...

I'm in favor of higher rates for bank fees, lodgings and transport. Though care must be taken not to make those prohobitive to low level characters, so there is a limit to what can be accomplished. I'm also in favor of a limit on the amount of gold one can carry on oneself, thus forcing people to use the banks. (But I fear this may be hard-coded and may not be doable.) We could reduce the return on selling items to NPCs so gold is not generated as quickly.

...

Actually I was thinking the oposite. Gold you carry on you makes your action have bigger consequence and can create more plot.
I would on contrary recomend capping what the different banks can hold.
If an extremely weathy individual want to put everything in the bank he should spread it on several bank (bringing some disconfort).

this is in my opinion both creadible in game and would make people carry more cash or find other way....

i was surprise there is not a market for bountied Items that would sell more expensive than the reward because it is a asset....I digress.

TL;DR
Basically Cap bank accounts (level to be defined). People will loose money adventuring and money will become more prominent plot material.

PS : I agree to post saying current economy is fine, doesnt mean we cannot improve it for everyones enjoyment. :)
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Maffa on May 14, 2022, 08:53:28 AM
i used to know people that stashed bountied items cos it's cheaper and safer than carrying cash
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Rocket on May 14, 2022, 10:42:57 AM
Obviously capping coin on banks is going to lead to a different currency of use.
I am wondering what is the cap on banks presently? Is it just some arbitary number what the NWN game defaults to as a max amount? like 999,999 ?

People will trade with the various commodities like ingots. Its just changing what the currency is, but still the inflation exists.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Maragrouf on May 14, 2022, 10:44:40 AM
There are people with actual millions stored in Banks. So who know what's the limit.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: William Roberts on May 14, 2022, 12:47:38 PM
If players horde wealth, I can think of two reasons they might:

* They are compulsive hoarders and like to have a big number in their imaginary bank accounts. Perhaps they equate this number with some sense of security.

Why would others want to take the imaginary money from such players? Did they accumulate it by cheating? Do we like harming our fellow players psychologically and making them feel less secure just because?

* They would like to spend this money, but they find nothing worth spending it on.

Here, then, is an idea for the latter huge bank deposits:

Give PCs a one-on-one audience with a Dark Lord for some amount of gold (1 million perhaps). The player "donates" to the Dark Lord this 1 million token of esteem and receives a Dark Lord NFT in return (a bauble with some nice lore text that conveys no advantage other than "I met a Dark Lord and all I got was this lousy tee shirt").

At DM discretion and interest, the meeting might not go as planned  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Maffa on May 14, 2022, 03:53:27 PM
Avarice is also a sin...
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Forte on May 14, 2022, 04:14:07 PM
Characters who accumulate that insane wealth earned it in their own ways. Usually through intense looting, merchanting, or otherwise, it takes a different kind of investment. Of course Jerry the Fighter isnít going to make the same coin as Columbo the Crypt Raider, else what would be the point of Crypt Raiders?

Coin is spread around, the economy has kept flowing despite the invisibility changes, and gear is still getting around a good amount. The current gold sinks are fine as they are.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Bwpsycho on May 14, 2022, 05:00:09 PM
I play one of the aforementioned hyper-wealthy PCs and dedicated loot goblin.

Here's what I'd like to suggest (and as I'm not a Dev I don't know how difficult it would be to implement these. I have no Dev skill myself, but if these would require just some busy-work of some sort, I'd be glad to sign up for that.):

-More Appraise gear, and make the drop rates for this gear higher. Selling to NPCs is the best way for PCs to accumulate wealth. IMO this should be made easier for low levels to accomplish, as even a small investment (such as from gear) makes a huge difference. Adding appraise to the new tailoring system comes to mind. In no way should this (selling to NPCs) be made harder to do, as that punishes the classes/players that already struggle making coin.

-Adjust how banks work. Implement the 'Influence adjusts tax rates' across all banks, as it does in Vallaki. Also make a flat increase in taxes, dependent on how much coin is currently in an 'account' with that bank. (5% for under X coin, 10% for under Y, 15% for under Z, etc, etc).

-More bounty boards in higher level domains. 'Fathead' is a way for PCs who aren't usually able to accumulate wealth to get a good chunk for not a lot of work, but this results in it getting camped. Adding more options to a variety of domains will alleviate the strain put on this one method.


I dont think there needs to be more 'gold sinks' for rich PCs, there's plenty currently available. With the invisibility changes Ninjalooting is at a good place on the server, it requires you to spend money on scrolls/multiple sets of gear to accomplish what used to be trivially easy. Keep it where it's at.

If players want to make more coin, there's a skill and feat-tree that's designed exactly for that, I recommend it highly. Also, make friends with bards. 

As Forte said:
Usually through intense looting, merchanting, or otherwise, it takes a different kind of investment. Of course Jerry the Fighter isnít going to make the same coin as Columbo the Crypt Raider, else what would be the point of Crypt Raiders?
There are tools available to PCs to increase the amount of coin they make, but it takes time and effort and factoring in the build.


On a separate note
- Invest in lower level players. Equipping them and financing their crafting operations.
This. The low level experience can be rough, especially for players without a group, giving them a hand could be pocket change in your eyes but a huge boost to them.

I'm guilty of not doing this as much as I should, but will change that. I encourage others to do the same.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: -narwhal- on May 15, 2022, 04:02:10 AM
Wipe bank accounts
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: bloodless on May 15, 2022, 04:23:07 AM
The economy is fine, there's nothing that a character needs that can't be obtained with ten thousand, considering how prevalent and outright better in the vast majority of cases crafted gear is. Items like sneak or appraisal gear pay for themselves, etc. I'd like to see more gold sinks because I've personally reached a point where there's basically nothing for me to spend money on outside of DM events and maybe some highly overpriced luxury item (that again I don't need), but in general? Things are fine.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: JustMonika on May 15, 2022, 05:46:15 AM
My take is that the economy is fine for an MMO lite game, but struggles hard to be representative of a proper RPG, and my assumption is we considered ourselves to be the latter, not the former.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Kireek on May 16, 2022, 10:57:02 AM

Give PCs a one-on-one audience with a Dark Lord for some amount of gold (1 million perhaps). The player "donates" to the Dark Lord this 1 million token of esteem and receives a Dark Lord NFT in return (a bauble with some nice lore text that conveys no advantage other than "I met a Dark Lord and all I got was this lousy tee shirt").

At DM discretion and interest, the meeting might not go as planned  :mrgreen:

THIS, this is actually the solution you are looking for in the game folks. You see, the solution of more banks fees/taxes n stuff doesn't fix the underlying issue where there is basically infinite wealth generation with a finite amount of things to spend it on and no real way to take money out of the economy except via punishing players.

The game needs to have inbuilt systems where investing more money will net some reward- for example, CRAFTING is an example of a system where the player puts in a decent chunk of coin to master- that money is out of the system, less is floating around..

The problem is finding a good way to reward players in this system without giving those who are just really savy at money generation a huge advantage of some sort. Once there is some mechanic in game that everyone wants to throw insane amounts of money in, all of a sudden it increases the value of money by quite a bit. Right now, money has no worth beyond a certain point for gear becuase once you hit a certain point.. you really just want like or in kind items or services, not actual coin. Trading actual coin is a net negative becuase you lose something rare  for a number.. which you might not be able to spend on something rare. It's better to trade rare items.

But if money actually had mechanical systems that provided some form of bonus or incentive, with diminishing returns the more you threw in..
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Merry Munchkin on May 16, 2022, 11:11:52 AM
1.  I don't think interaction with Dark Lords is supposed to be the equivalent of getting a selfie with a major Hollywood celebrity.  More like getting trapped in the house in the dark with the weirdo from "Silence of the Lambs".  Not sure if Dark Lord closure is something people would pay a cool million to experience (but maybe I'm wrong).

2.  This is just another variation on the same theme of "we need to find some new and creative gold sinks".  I am all for this, as long as it is within the appropriate Gothic horror genre  (celebrity selfies are not it).

3.  On one of the servers I used to play on, DMs would do silent auctions of unique DM-created magic items, and some of these items were only useful in conjunction with previoiusly auctioned DM-items ("collect the set of three and get a cool DM thingie").  If you want something that is more in line with Gothic horror, periodically have a Dark Lord offer a silent auction of items -- each unique, each highly desirable, and each corrupted with an unavoidable curse.  Some folks might pay a lot of coin for an item that will advance their RP and further their journey down to damnation.  You could even make some items part of a collection (three parts of a staff, or a 5 jewels of a crown, etc.) that must be combined to create something amazing and cursed -- different PCs could end up with the parts, and have to cooperate to figure out how to combine them (and who gets the final item).  I see a lot of high level PvP in the future.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Kireek on May 16, 2022, 11:13:40 AM
Just thought of it...

Rare book auctions from past plots that probably don't exist anywhere in game anymore becuase the character who owned the book is retired/missing/whatever.

Bidding starts 250k a book, not allowed to copy it... get a chance to some fun secret about the game.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: JustMonika on May 16, 2022, 11:23:02 AM
I think we should consider that we can't reallistically expect to spend POTMBucks on things that have actual real world value.

And unfortunately, the time and effort of our DM Team, do have real world value. Any system based on the exchange of gold for DM services, is greating the expectation that you are able to spend your in game efforts on their time, time they are now not spending doing anything else.

As a result, much as I agree these would all be cool things, I don't see this being praticable.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: dutchy on May 16, 2022, 06:46:23 PM
I think we should consider that we can't reallistically expect to spend POTMBucks on things that have actual real world value.

And unfortunately, the time and effort of our DM Team, do have real world value. Any system based on the exchange of gold for DM services, is greating the expectation that you are able to spend your in game efforts on their time, time they are now not spending doing anything else.

As a result, much as I agree these would all be cool things, I don't see this being praticable.

here i was hoping i could bu...hire them to clean my whole house, and remove unwanted plants in my garden and clean the windows.
while i could yell at them for an extra fee.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: HirtZirk on June 06, 2022, 12:56:12 PM
I thougth about this on another thread but peraps an good solution would be making crafted Items degrade (time, use, dmg or any other reason) could be a way to nerf them witout nerfing they use. also would be great for crafter and would improve that gold sink people mention.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: Mailbox-2100 on June 06, 2022, 01:08:07 PM
On my server ages ago.. I used Item CHARGES as part of a durability script! Worked awesomely. Do recommend.
Title: Re: Inflation suggestion
Post by: King Pickle on June 06, 2022, 02:10:13 PM
Players who suffer from inflation most are the ones who don't have time or just don't want to spend time grinding.
Its not going to help them if they have to spend more on their equipment.
If crafted items require maintenance and looted don't, price of the loot isn't going to go down.