Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist
Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Iolantir on December 06, 2021, 11:10:33 AM
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I've been thinking for a while about how to approach posting this, despite the topic having come up before. I believe there are some serious issues with how RP XP gains are set up on this server, and rather than just say they are bad, I wanted to throw out one suggestion that I feel would be appropriate.
Faction Base RP
Regardless of your level, if you are RPing in an area that is considered your faction base, your RP XP should not be penalized. Garda, for example, should be allowed to gain RP XP in all of Vallaki. These are areas that the characters should be expected to play in, and to penalize them for accurately portraying their character by restricting their progression feels short-sighted. This would then apply to other factions based, so that if you're a member of the Red Vardo, you would get full RP XP in Vardo areas. If you're Wayfarer Kinship, you'd get RP XP in the lodge. This would also allow those areas to become mini hot-spots for faction members, further encouraging roleplay. As someone in the Kinship, I would not hesitate to sit in the lodge all day and chat with those who recently joined, giving them small tasks to complete or even just chatting. While yes, I could do this now, let's not pretend that the incentive of experience-based character progression isn't a huge motivator for a LOT of things that happen on this server. That motivator is what was leveraged to try and get people out of Western Barovia, afterall.
I understand the team wants to push people out of Western Barovia at 14+. While I disagree with the idea of pushing people out of a setting without having at least a somewhat similar area for 14+ people to congregate, allowing people who have an in-character reason to be in Western Barovia to still benefit by sticking true to their character feels appropriate.
This is a DnD game. A big part of these games alongside roleplay is character progression. To be someone that is rooted in Western Barovia, has backstory in Western Barovia, has literally no reason to leave Western Barovia, but goes to the Mist Camp to queue into the local group finder just for character progression feels like it breaks the spirit of the server.
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i think an issue that has been highlighted previously (and which isn't necessarily tackled in the op, besides garda having vallaki-wide exp) is that this would encourage faction members to hole up in plot locked interiors that other players are not going to see or be invited inside to, at least most of the time.
if faction members are given rp xp in greater areas of western barovia, then you have the issue of it being unfair to people who are not part of a faction.
in my opinion, the cap either needs to go entirely or the issue to be tackled is one of people - as you say - going off east to dungeon, get xp, and then come back to the lower level areas. i am not sure we can go into that without derailing the thread, though, so i'll refrain from doing so for now
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This topic has already been covered many many times already, and we unfortunately aren't planning to add this kind feature in the foreseeable future. You're of course free to discuss and throw ideas as always, but in this case I wouldn't get your hopes up. We already made some adjustments to the XP system recently, and for the time being we're satisfied with the way it is. I realize its not the kind of answer you're looking for, but it is the situation right now.
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Also, as I know this will come up - Port rp is in no way similar to Barovia rp.. the push to “go to Port” for your next rp hub to enjoy wine and cheese mixer mixers or fresh baked baguettes, is different then what goes in a backward country like Barovia .. I would get rid of rpxp moratorium altogether, but that said I’d settle for faction bases..
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i think an issue that has been highlighted previously (and which isn't necessarily tackled in the op, besides garda having vallaki-wide exp) is that this would encourage faction members to hole up in plot locked interiors that other players are not going to see or be invited inside to, at least most of the time.
if faction members are given rp xp in greater areas of western barovia, then you have the issue of it being unfair to people who are not part of a faction.
The first point has merit, but I don't think we can accurately say what the majority of people would do without seeing how things go. I don't believe that a majority of people would suddenly disappear from the Outskirts and other RP areas under this change.
Regarding the fairness of XP gains, the characters who would get RP XP in their faction bases are tied to that base as a part of their character. I'd say the other side of the coin is that it's unfair that they are roleplaying true to their character, but not being properly rewarded for it through character progression.
This does create some messy situations where a Barovian native would never leave Barovia but is still penalized, but I think that just emphasizes the massive flaw in limiting RP XP as a whole. And this thread is one idea to try and combat that.
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We already made some adjustments to the XP system recently, and for the time being we're satisfied with the way it is. I realize its not the kind of answer you're looking for, but it is the situation right now.
The thing with this is that the changes to the XP system recently actually further penalize those who remain in Western Barovia as part of their character at level 14+, if I understood the changes correctly.
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ah, so you're saying enable rp xp for those characters who are more restricted in when and where they can travel in order to compensate with the characters who still leave to dungeon elsewhere? definitely something worth considering, and i would agree if not for the fact that there are still characters (arguably few characters, but they are there all the same) who roleplay similar restrictions or inhibition but aren't a part of an official faction and would still be left with the exact same problem
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ah, so you're saying enable rp xp for those characters who are more restricted in when and where they can travel in order to compensate with the characters who still leave to dungeon elsewhere? definitely something worth considering, and i would agree if not for the fact that there are still characters (arguably few characters, but they are there all the same) who roleplay similar restrictions or inhibition but aren't a part of an official faction and would still be left with the exact same problem
The change would essentially be aimed towards characters who have faction-based purpose to continue to get RP XP while in Western Barovia (in their faction areas). It's not a perfect change that would allow for everyone who is under a similar situation to be rewarded, but it would be a step in the right direction, in my opinion.
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I think there should be reconsideration for this idea if it's been shot down before. A couple of quick pros:
1. Factions have very well made, nicely designed bases that imo go sadly underused, an incentive to RP in them more not only gets these great areas more traffic, but also will inevitably generate RP for the faction and beyond
2. It gives higher level players who may not RP in the main hub so much a reason to come back and then again, create more RP hopefully
3. Certain factions that aren't very adventure intensive (rebels, garda) can still get XP to help offset the lack of monster killing experience points
4. Non faction players can get interaction with canon factions and thus add to the overall theme of the setting
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Faction Base RP
Regardless of your level, if you are RPing in an area that is considered your faction base, your RP XP should not be penalized. Garda, for example, should be allowed to gain RP XP in all of Vallaki. These are areas that the characters should be expected to play in, and to penalize them for accurately portraying their character by restricting their progression feels short-sighted. This would then apply to other factions based, so that if you're a member of the Red Vardo, you would get full RP XP in Vardo areas. If you're Wayfarer Kinship, you'd get RP XP in the lodge. This would also allow those areas to become mini hot-spots for faction members, further encouraging roleplay. As someone in the Kinship, I would not hesitate to sit in the lodge all day and chat with those who recently joined, giving them small tasks to complete or even just chatting. While yes, I could do this now, let's not pretend that the incentive of experience-based character progression isn't a huge motivator for a LOT of things that happen on this server. That motivator is what was leveraged to try and get people out of Western Barovia, afterall.
I understand the team wants to push people out of Western Barovia at 14+. While I disagree with the idea of pushing people out of a setting without having at least a somewhat similar area for 14+ people to congregate, allowing people who have an in-character reason to be in Western Barovia to still benefit by sticking true to their character feels appropriate.
This is a DnD game. A big part of these games alongside roleplay is character progression. To be someone that is rooted in Western Barovia, has backstory in Western Barovia, has literally no reason to leave Western Barovia, but goes to the Mist Camp to queue into the local group finder just for character progression feels like it breaks the spirit of the server.
I've spent the afternoon trying to think of the proper way to respond to this, because I appreciate it is a difficult subject to many people and one I struggle to emphasise with, having only once had a level 14+ PC in Barovia, for whom I was not bothered they didn't recieve any RPXP. Still as a Community Councillor, it's important for me to be able to understand and represent the views of the player base, even those I disagree with.
For what purpose is this additional XP saught? The Dungeons designed for level 14+ characters are not found in Barovia. If you want higher levels to access more server content, your character is going to have to travel to non-Barovia areas anyway. AMPC's are specifically started off roughly in the 12-15 level range, having multiple higher level PCs hang around the servers primary hub actively hinders their ability to create atmosphere, so I'd hope it's not for that. And if it's for PvP, you're all equally advantaged/disadvantaged. I'm certainly not aware of many instances where people who primarily RP outside the capped areas return to Barovia simply to PvP those who are lower level, and if you're aware of this I would encourage you to report it to the DM Team.
I struggle to advocate for your interests because I don't understand the motivations behind them and given the balence implications, it's important we have a well thought and reasonable consideration to change things.
Also, as I know this will come up - Port rp is in no way similar to Barovia rp.. the push to “go to Port” for your next rp hub to enjoy wine and cheese mixer mixers or fresh baked baguettes, is different then what goes in a backward country like Barovia .. I would get rid of rpxp moratorium altogether, but that said I’d settle for faction bases..
This sort of post really causes me a great deal of sadness. Aside from any concerns as to if its degrading to those who do enjoy port, it really isn't representative of what transpires at all. Approximately sixty players turned up in Port just this week for a dueling Tournament. We have regular academic lectures. A recent plot just concluded which was entirely about the underground trade of illict drugs. There is certainly noble intergue, and I confess on exactly two occasions I can recall there was a wine tasting event for some of the noble PCs, but we have everything from criminals, researchers, mad scentists, bodyguards, merchants, and more, in addition to the handful of noble PCs. Describing it as you have done is a significant diservice and misrepresentation.
Further, Port isn't the only non-Barovian option. The Dev team have just put significant time and effort into redesigning the Mist camp and the Red Academy to allow both to function as alternate non-Port hubs. Now I can fully appreciate if none of that appeals to you personally, no-one has to enjoy port or the mist camp, or Hazlan, but to say there are no alternatives just isn't true, just as if it is to say those alternatives only offer one dimensional roleplay.
ah, so you're saying enable rp xp for those characters who are more restricted in when and where they can travel in order to compensate with the characters who still leave to dungeon elsewhere? definitely something worth considering, and i would agree if not for the fact that there are still characters (arguably few characters, but they are there all the same) who roleplay similar restrictions or inhibition but aren't a part of an official faction and would still be left with the exact same problem
I assume this suggestion is primarily aimed at the Guarda, as they're one of the factions which is truely tied to the setting. [There is an Ezrite Cathedral in Lucine, for example] But the Guarda are not meant to be a merchaically powerful faction. Nor in my experience are they needeed to be one. They're actively discouraged, much like the Gendarmie in Port, from participating in dungeoning, so the only application of levelling would be PvP and again I've not experienced any issues here. It's also worth noting the pace of RP XP is painfully slow. You're not going to even come close to catching someone who dungeons regularly, so the addition of it would really only take shape over the very long term. Once it has however, you could have level 20 Guarda walking around, and I don't see what that adds to the 'Fear of the Night' aspect of the setting either.
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I've spent the afternoon trying to think of the proper way to respond to this, because I appreciate it is a difficult subject to many people and one I struggle to emphasise with, having only once had a level 14+ PC in Barovia, for whom I was not bothered they didn't recieve any RPXP. Still as a Community Councillor, it's important for me to be able to understand and represent the views of the player base, even those I disagree with.
For what purpose is this additional XP saught? The Dungeons designed for level 14+ characters are not found in Barovia. If you want higher levels to access more server content, your character is going to have to travel to non-Barovia areas anyway. AMPC's are specifically started off roughly in the 12-15 level range, having multiple higher level PCs hang around the servers primary hub actively hinders their ability to create atmosphere, so I'd hope it's not for that. And if it's for PvP, you're all equally advantaged/disadvantaged. I'm certainly not aware of many instances where people who primarily RP outside the capped areas return to Barovia simply to PvP those who are lower level, and if you're aware of this I would encourage you to report it to the DM Team.
I struggle to advocate for your interests because I don't understand the motivations behind them and given the balence implications, it's important we have a well thought and reasonable consideration to change things.
Player progression is an important part of the experience for many players. I understand that some players may not care for player level, and don't encounter many situations where player level or character power is important, but I would not say that is true for a majority of the playerbase. Experience represents the progression of a character. Roleplaying in Barovia, per the character's current storylines, affiliations, or what have you, should not be inherently 'less efficient' XP wise compared to roleplaying on a terrace in Port, simply because there are "stronger dungeons" in the area. There is no less effort, time, or thought into the roleplay based on the location where the roleplay takes place, and penalizing players who decide to base their RP in one domain over the other feels needlessly punitive.
I think it's a mistake to inherently believe that because there's no dungeons in Western Barovia for levels 14+, that it means roleplay should not be rewarded XP-wise for characters that are 14+. While yes, roleplay is part of the reward, it is not the whole reward for everyone.
It's also not exactly true, as I can still come out of some dungeons in Western Barovia with a proud message, spawn depending, at level 14.
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I think there might also be a sense of FOMO at play; “fear of missing out”. I likely won’t ever push past level 14 on my Barovian native, for example, but there’s still this weird feeling of wanting to go further without needing to go elsewhere, even though I don’t really have any use for being in the higher levels in the first place. Not to get all psychological about it, anyway—I just know that’s what it is for me, since that same feeling was present when I’d play lower level RP characters on WoW. Some people just like seeing the numbers go up and eventually cap out, and some people don’t want to disturb their day-to-day to get there, even if it’s a significant achievement that warrants doing so.
(For the record, I take no issue with the XP cap. I just felt like throwing in my two cents and then disappearing back into my hidey hole. <3)
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If your based out of zone where there is no xp cap.. and are saying the Barovia XP cap doesn't bother you.. I think you should consider that players who WANT to stay in Barovia, aren't given the luxury that you are given in the zone where you are rewarded for your RP efforts.
Also, I am proud to say I enjoy both RP and getting XP rewarded for it. I realize in a game like dungeons and dragon, the idea of leveling up might seem a bit crazy, so put me in the madhouse.. cause I can't get enough! =)
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I assume this suggestion is primarily aimed at the Guarda, as they're one of the factions which is truely tied to the setting. [There is an Ezrite Cathedral in Lucine, for example] But the Guarda are not meant to be a merchaically powerful faction. Nor in my experience are they needeed to be one. They're actively discouraged, much like the Gendarmie in Port, from participating in dungeoning, so the only application of levelling would be PvP and again I've not experienced any issues here. It's also worth noting the pace of RP XP is painfully slow. You're not going to even come close to catching someone who dungeons regularly, so the addition of it would really only take shape over the very long term. Once it has however, you could have level 20 Guarda walking around, and I don't see what that adds to the 'Fear of the Night' aspect of the setting either.
the garda are certainly impacted by it - probably the most - but they are far from the only faction. gundarakite rebels under normal circumstances should obviously be based within barovia. the morninglordians see a good number of native barovians who, though they are certainly different to the usual native, should still be less inclined to travel than their outlander counterparts. the ezrites similarly are not supposed to leave their congregation without permission, and the main bases for the ezrites are in barovia (raduta, rectory). you can travel to port, certainly, but probably not too often as it wouldn't really make sense to do so.
pvp in the garda is a different matter altogether. i wouldn't say there's a problem with it but they are at quite the disadvantage in not having any magic to utilise and effectively being capped at 12-14. the gendarmerie do not have those restrictions and while they may be having to apprehend higher level characters on average, the garda still have to deal with them upon occasion.
fear of the night is another issue that's tied to this one, and has been arguably beaten to death in other threads as well. at level 12, with silver gear, you are effectively safe from anything that can spawn in vallaki. the only real threat are MPCs. those aside, what does it matter if the garda character is level 12 or level 20? mechanically, they have nothing to fear regardless.
that is just argument for argument's sake, though. in my opinion it would be wiser to focus on ways to minimise the impact higher levels have on barovia, even if it is often unintentional
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This is not meant to be sarcastic or sassy in anyway, but an honest question. If you are creating RP in a faction based area (supported factions which, more often than not are in a prime position to generate plot, story, and immersive role play) Should you not be awarded with RP XP? To me the story itself is the reward but, at the same time, if a plot takes a level 14 PC to Vallaki, and often it does, it's at least a small pat on the back to get RP XP in your own base.
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I think another thing to consider is Barovia itself is not designed to really be above levels 12-14 as a whole, traditionally at least. I think design wise it would do more harm to really allow xp in that area that pushes you beyond it. To play devil's advocate to that point most the domains fall in to that category as well. For me at least, I see that getting around 12-14 as a Barovian concept should be around the point you should be wrapping up your story anyways. As an outstanding individual getting to that level is sure to draw the attention of the powers that be and that rarely ends well for the one who had the attention drawn to them. Wanting to play a Barovian based concept is well and cool but I do thinking going in to that concept you should go in with a general idea in mind of how to wrap it up around that point in level as well. Not going to make many friends with this but I am of the opinion that characters higher than 14ish without a good reason to be in Western Barovia shouldn't be there at all. It would add to the fear of the night as the stronger gear would not be moved in to the area as much and be much more rare. It is hard to fear the night when you can easily grab some toptier gear after a day of krofburg runs. Even with expensive prices you are looking at around 10-12 thousand gold for armor and a weapon on the expensive end? That is about two days of running about with deliveries on a good loop.
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Just going to throw in my two cents here coming from the point of view of an AMPC. I've played several of them and I like to think that I'm very active in doing so, I also only play them in the Barovia area. There's an entire reason why for that but it's not really relevant here. I have seen and heard people making the argument along the lines of 'AMPC are level 12-14, roleplay experience would just make more high levels want to stay there and kill them more'.
That is not something I worry about as an AMPC, I welcome people gaining RP XP in Barovia. But why would I do that? Why would I want more high levels to show up and try to kill my character? Well dear reader, that's because they are already there trying to kill me. If they're already travelling from Mist Camp and the other 'High level areas' to come specifically to kill AMPC, how does giving them RP XP make any difference?
Well, it doesn't make any difference. The people who do that will always do that and it's their right to have agency in this. But what is currently in play to keep them away from Barovia doesn't work, they still come and try to kill me anyways.
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I personally like how things are right now. If you choose to have a Barovia-based PC then you'll have to go to other places to level up and adventure once you hit the cap, and there's nothing wrong with that. If anything, I like that it encourages travel.
The 'if you're level 14+ you have no reason to fear' argument falls flat for me, because my view is that fear shouldn't be based on mechanics. You have to choose for your character to be afraid of something and enforce it voluntarily. Your character may not be afraid of famished crag cats -- but maybe they have arachnophobia, or other such 'irrational' things that can't be dispelled away through 'oh, I can get this thing to 0 HP quick'. Horror isn't about just dispatching dungeon mobs.
The larger issue, and what has ended threads like this before, is that a lot of work has gone into designing the server to be how it is and the devs are unlikely to change it. In my opinion, it's easier to roll with that fact and just play with or around it.
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It seems higher levels are going other places to level anyway, I don't think level 14+ players are in barovia thinking they are going to level from RPXP in their faction base. I think its just the idea of getting something from the RP instead of a big fat zero.
As someone who RPXP leveled a character from 6-11 I can say I would never dream of trying to RPXP from 14-20, nope, but having the little ticks whilst your RP'ing in your own faction base that only exists in western barovia? It seems that level 14+ players shouldn't be allowed in the factions then if that's the aim.
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I personally like how things are right now. If you choose to have a Barovia-based PC then you'll have to go to other places to level up and adventure once you hit the cap, and there's nothing wrong with that. If anything, I like that it encourages travel.
For dungeons, for the most part, sure. But to say that roleplay in Mist Camp or Port should inherently be more rewarding XP wise than Barovia feels arbitrary, especially with supported factions.
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This is not meant to be sarcastic or sassy in anyway, but an honest question. If you are creating RP in a faction based area (supported factions which, more often than not are in a prime position to generate plot, story, and immersive role play) Should you not be awarded with RP XP? To me the story itself is the reward but, at the same time, if a plot takes a level 14 PC to Vallaki, and often it does, it's at least a small pat on the back to get RP XP in your own base.
I strongly support this point.
RPXP is part of the system, sure, but should never be the reason why someone makes its own RP. If you WANT desperately to tell a story of a local character, blablabla, there is no need to level above the intended level of the area.
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For dungeons, for the most part, sure. But to say that roleplay in Mist Camp or Port should inherently be more rewarding XP wise than Barovia feels arbitrary, especially with supported factions.
The answer you're likely to get (I vaguely recall reading this in a similarly themed thread previously) is that RP is it's own reward, not necessarily tied to RPXP, but just as a fun time.
I don't necessarily agree with it, but it be what it be.
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For dungeons, for the most part, sure. But to say that roleplay in Mist Camp or Port should inherently be more rewarding XP wise than Barovia feels arbitrary, especially with supported factions.
The answer you're likely to get (I vaguely recall reading this in a similarly themed thread previously) is that RP is it's own reward, not necessarily tied to RPXP, but just as a fun time.
I don't necessarily agree with it, but it be what it be.
To be fair, I'd totally agree with this if RP XP wasn't a thing.
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This is not meant to be sarcastic or sassy in anyway, but an honest question. If you are creating RP in a faction based area (supported factions which, more often than not are in a prime position to generate plot, story, and immersive role play) Should you not be awarded with RP XP? To me the story itself is the reward but, at the same time, if a plot takes a level 14 PC to Vallaki, and often it does, it's at least a small pat on the back to get RP XP in your own base.
I strongly support this point.
RPXP is part of the system, sure, but should never be the reason why someone makes its own RP. If you WANT desperately to tell a story of a local character, blablabla, there is no need to level above the intended level of the area.
Last I checked, most RP in port requires a high CHA, not a high level, so why don't we remove the RP XP from that hub area as well, likewise for Hazlan? You dont need to be level 20 to order a baguette or croissant while attending a lecture on the best shoe polish in the core. Just saying.
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I love RPXP.
It's like god mixed crack and heroin and ketamine and meth and a very nice way of getting XP, given that, on an RP server, I do a lot of RP.
And I think RP should be rewarded. Anyone can bum rush dungeons day in and day out, stopping only because of blind drive, and end up in the mist camp permanently.
Frankly, I see no reason why rpxp should be restricted to JUST outside of western barovia, when western barovia is one of the three hubs actually populated, includes multiple 'home bases' for certain races, has an underground scene, and in general is frankly more interesting than the other hubs.
So I say, let everywhere get full rp xp
or let nowhere get full rp xp.
It's not like rpxp is what keeps high levels out of Barovia - it doesn't, they just show up to schwack an ampc when they near their timer.
a way to alleviate this would be moving some of the features of WeBa to EaBa, however this would, arguably, split up the playerbase even more, however I do not see that as much of an issue - there's plenty of players
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I love RPXP.
It's like god mixed crack and heroin and ketamine and meth and a very nice way of getting XP, given that, on an RP server, I do a lot of RP.
And I think RP should be rewarded. Anyone can bum rush dungeons day in and day out, stopping only because of blind drive, and end up in the mist camp permanently.
Frankly, I see no reason why rpxp should be restricted to JUST outside of western barovia, when western barovia is one of the three hubs actually populated, includes multiple 'home bases' for certain races, has an underground scene, and in general is frankly more interesting than the other hubs.
So I say, let everywhere get full rp xp
or let nowhere get full rp xp.
It's not like rpxp is what keeps high levels out of Barovia - it doesn't, they just show up to schwack an ampc when they near their timer.
a way to alleviate this would be moving some of the features of WeBa to EaBa, however this would, arguably, split up the playerbase even more, however I do not see that as much of an issue - there's plenty of players
Love everything you said here.. At this point maybe every zone needs to be mixed with high and low level areas, vs a designated "Low Level" zone..
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This is not meant to be sarcastic or sassy in anyway, but an honest question. If you are creating RP in a faction based area (supported factions which, more often than not are in a prime position to generate plot, story, and immersive role play) Should you not be awarded with RP XP? To me the story itself is the reward but, at the same time, if a plot takes a level 14 PC to Vallaki, and often it does, it's at least a small pat on the back to get RP XP in your own base.
I strongly support this point.
RPXP is part of the system, sure, but should never be the reason why someone makes its own RP. If you WANT desperately to tell a story of a local character, blablabla, there is no need to level above the intended level of the area.
Last I checked, most RP in port requires a high CHA, not a high level, so why don't we remove the RP XP from that hub area as well, likewise for Hazlan? You dont need to be level 20 to order a baguette or croissant while attending a lecture on the best shoe polish in the core. Just saying.
First: your suggestion is not bad at all. Seriously. You are obviously trying to be snarky, but, hey, you are not wrong: The RP rewards is the RP. No need to give XP for it. Obviously this would demand a complete rework of the system, but your ironic response is not wrong.
Second: The idea is keeping the PC's in balance with the surrounding areas and proposed roleplay. The "dungeons" in Port are notoriously harder than in Barovia and intended for higher levels. From memory, I can cite as examples Aboleth, Sewers, Worker Lodge, which are designed for something from levels 12 to 18, I guess. Then make people have RPXP penalty in Dementlieu at level 19 and stop gaining RPXP at level 20, for instance. That will be completely irrelevant, but is coherent with the server design.
However, the true problem is simple: with a level 14 PC you can solo all WB and ruin the dungeon spawn for 60% of the playerbase. The server was designed with different level ranges across the different areas and having a lvl 19 PC in an area designed for PC's up to the level 10 is problematic.
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However, the true problem is simple: with a level 14 PC you can solo all WB and ruin the dungeon spawn for 60% of the playerbase. The server was designed with different level ranges across the different areas and having a lvl 19 PC in an area designed for PC's up to the level 10 is problematic.
This is why most of the dungeons don't give XP to levels 14+.
For as long as RP XP is implemented in the system as a whole, there's no good reason it shouldn't be rewarded to level 14+ in Barovia. If you're roleplaying, you're roleplaying. Whether it's around the fire in the Wayfarer Lodge as a Kin, or in Port's Bank.
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This is not meant to be sarcastic or sassy in anyway, but an honest question. If you are creating RP in a faction based area (supported factions which, more often than not are in a prime position to generate plot, story, and immersive role play) Should you not be awarded with RP XP? To me the story itself is the reward but, at the same time, if a plot takes a level 14 PC to Vallaki, and often it does, it's at least a small pat on the back to get RP XP in your own base.
I strongly support this point.
RPXP is part of the system, sure, but should never be the reason why someone makes its own RP. If you WANT desperately to tell a story of a local character, blablabla, there is no need to level above the intended level of the area.
Last I checked, most RP in port requires a high CHA, not a high level, so why don't we remove the RP XP from that hub area as well, likewise for Hazlan? You dont need to be level 20 to order a baguette or croissant while attending a lecture on the best shoe polish in the core. Just saying.
First: your suggestion is not bad at all. Seriously. You are obviously trying to be snarky, but, hey, you are not wrong: The RP rewards is the RP. No need to give XP for it. Obviously this would demand a complete rework of the system, but your ironic response is not wrong.
Second: The idea is keeping the PC's in balance with the surrounding areas and proposed roleplay. The "dungeons" in Port are notoriously harder than in Barovia and intended for higher levels. From memory, I can cite as examples Aboleth, Sewers, Worker Lodge, which are designed for something from levels 12 to 18, I guess. Then make people have RPXP penalty in Dementlieu at level 19 and stop gaining RPXP at level 20, for instance. That will be completely irrelevant, but is coherent with the server design.
However, the true problem is simple: with a level 14 PC you can solo all WB and ruin the dungeon spawn for 60% of the playerbase. The server was designed with different level ranges across the different areas and having a lvl 19 PC in an area designed for PC's up to the level 10 is problematic.
Well, it seems like some of the replies are a bit tone deaf when they come from folks who are in areas where your level doesn't really matter for the type of RP your engaging in, yet are in favor of the loss of RPXp in Vallaki.. I also get the issue with the high level just pwning the crypts.. or any other low level dungeon.. but high levels already populate the area, because a lot of good RP happens there.
If time and pain weren't a factor I would say that WBV should be restructured to have both high and low level areas. I mean whether you like it or not, its a RP hub, and plenty of folks enjoy the grittier RP that happens in barovia vs the more refined RP of Port.. if you want a newbie zone, build a newbie zone, don't take the marquis area of the server and declare it RP null .. seems a bit crazy.. this is Prisoner of the mists, not prisoner of the baguettes =) Sorry couldnt help it
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My level 14 couldn't even solo the werewolf caves. I have no idea what people are talking about here. :lol:
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Please stop using the same tired stereotypes to reference Dementlieu RP. It's discourteous towards the players who enjoy it and who have nothing to do with the RP XP situation of Barovia. Thank you.
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I'm fine with RP XP stopping at level 14 everywhere personally.
Level 21 is bordering the realm of powers of the gods. Chosen of deities are in the level range of 8-20 in forgotten realms, stopping at 14 becomes the exact sweet spot middle.
If the majority of people want garda that can reach level 20 while remaining garda, sure, whatever, let the garda of a backwater city become as near to demi-gods as the game allows.
Power balance is already broken anyway, and it'll promote AMPCs that want to act as a foil to garda to keep doing their stealth & magic.
I'm more scared of a garda banishing my characters from the area rather than what level they actually are, their power level doesn't even factor into their ability to ostracize people from civilization with due reason.
Being banished to become a Dementlieuse character is a fate worse than death, and garda have the batons to do it.
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Please stop using the same tired stereotypes to reference Dementlieu RP. It's discourteous towards the players who enjoy it and who have nothing to do with the RP XP situation of Barovia. Thank you.
This please.
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I've spoken about this the last couple of times this sort of thread has cropped up, and with far more passion than I can muster for it now. But the simplest way I can boil it down is that it feels bad to have one part of the game world where the majority of players reside at any point in time be restricted in a way that is not present anywhere else. Personally, I've warmed up to the idea of level capping the server at 14, period, but that's neither here nor there.
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I've spoken about this the last couple of times this sort of thread has cropped up, and with far more passion than I can muster for it now. But the simplest way I can boil it down is that it feels bad to have one part of the game world where the majority of players reside at any point in time be restricted in a way that is not present anywhere else. Personally, I've warmed up to the idea of level capping the server at 14, period, but that's neither here nor there.
It can't be helped that BV is such an active RP area.. it should be reinforced and expanded upon, not stopped.
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Please stop using the same tired stereotypes to reference Dementlieu RP. It's discourteous towards the players who enjoy it and who have nothing to do with the RP XP situation of Barovia. Thank you.
+1 to this.
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Carb Loading aside to go back to the OP, and attempt not to derail the thread.
I think W Barovia is as valid a RP Hub as Haz, or Demen. A lot of awesome stuff happens there, and its a pity that you would want to move folks out of it.
So maybe there is some kind of compromise.
If Vallaki and its nearby environs are meant to be a lowbie area, why not convert village into a Hub as well.. It has a simliar layout to Vallaki (in terms of environs) and would just need a few added tweaks to make it function as one.
If the issue is IC Village doesn't function that way because of PLOT REASONS... make up another smaller hub nearby that can have factions, bank etc.. opportunity for players to congregate in a RP setting, earn xp for it..
Frankly I think most folks once they pass by the 14 mark, if they dont want to go to Dem or Haz spend time in MC.. which is rather boring.. or just wander back to Vall.. which interferes with the lowbie progression or plot events..
I don't see why this wouldn't be considered.. it seems like a reasonable fix to the problem.
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Creating a new hub would be a /significant/ amount of work, dozens of hours, which would have to be done by our purely voluntary Dev team, so may not want to do so. The server may look very different if we could simply snap our fingers and code or add what we please, but the reality is its an extremely difficult, thankless and time consuming task.
If anyone wishes to volunteer to help, I encourage them to apply to join to share that workload.
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I still liked Cassius's idea which included all the public areas of the bases, not just the private faction-only areas.
If it were up to me, 14 would be the maximum level anyway. Next best thing would be RP XP everywhere but the outskirts, until the temple is a smoking crater.
We don't need any new hubs, we have a million useful areas on the server already, the amenities and conveniences of hubs are not required for RP to take place. It just pans out that way when you stack everything in one place, people go use it without caring too much about the IC side of things no matter how much you tell them where they should be.
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I love RPXP.
It's like god mixed crack and heroin and ketamine and meth and a very nice way of getting XP, given that, on an RP server, I do a lot of RP.
And I think RP should be rewarded. Anyone can bum rush dungeons day in and day out, stopping only because of blind drive, and end up in the mist camp permanently.
Frankly, I see no reason why rpxp should be restricted to JUST outside of western barovia, when western barovia is one of the three hubs actually populated, includes multiple 'home bases' for certain races, has an underground scene, and in general is frankly more interesting than the other hubs.
So I say, let everywhere get full rp xp
or let nowhere get full rp xp.
It's not like rpxp is what keeps high levels out of Barovia - it doesn't, they just show up to schwack an ampc when they near their timer.
a way to alleviate this would be moving some of the features of WeBa to EaBa, however this would, arguably, split up the playerbase even more, however I do not see that as much of an issue - there's plenty of players
Well said, my character doesn't really have much of a reason to exit Western Barovia too often, along with them not really being one for Port or hanging around the Mist Camp.
I don't care too much about not having RPXP there, but it would be nice to have.
RP should be rewarded on an RP server, so why shoo away characters from a large hub of the server, when a lot of interesting things to talk about and see happen down there?
I'd much rather RP with people most times than go on a ton of mindless dungeon runs, so getting a miniscule amount of progress from the RP I elect to do mainly would be pretty nice.
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I'll just say this much, there absolutely are plenty of threats for even level 20+ characters, no matter where you are in Ravenloft, simply due to how the demiplane works. Nobody is safe, nobody is more powerful than the Dark Powers, and nothing of great significance can happen without them knowing or probably letting it happen.
In Barovia these threats are manyfold, some of them are spoilers, others are obvious (like Strahd), and I can personally say that even as a high-level character there isn't a feeling of safety in Barovia. Sure, you can bully a bunch of young werewolves. You can beat up on talentless fledgling vampires. Elder vampires are still stronger and smarter than you, and older, tougher and bigger werewolves are still pretty scary. You can put up a fight against AMPCs and be a force they have to be somewhat wary of. That's a very interesting way for RP to unfold as well.
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I enjoy the memes against Port RP. I sit in my high chair like a French king, crack open a bottle of wine, and smirk smugly with my lack of minor RP XP messages and my very regular events. Come take the Dementlieu pill.
edit: really though it isnt all noble stuff. Come be a terrorist or an underworld criminal or something.
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really though it isnt all noble stuff. Come be a terrorist or an underworld criminal or something.
Not interested. But I like there’s a place for people to play and feel rewarded for doing so for that kind of RP. All I ask is the same be afforded to those of us who prefer Barovia.
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I enjoy the memes against Port RP. I sit in my high chair like a French king, crack open a bottle of wine, and smirk smugly with my lack of minor RP XP messages and my very regular events. Come take the Dementlieu pill.
edit: really though it isnt all noble stuff. Come be a terrorist or an underworld criminal or something.
LOL.. someone who can take a joke.. =) I think Port RP is pretty cool, even all the noble stuff.. But I recently discovered the Meme thread with the little Baguette guy.. and frankly.. why that isnt the mascot for POTM is beyond me..
But not to derail further.. it would be nice to sit back and soak in the RP XP in Vallaki as wel
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I enjoy port rp and also baguette au fromage, and I don't think all port rp is like this but it certainly has a certain flavor and 'social rp' aspect that not everyone enjoys.
I don't think, personally, it is fair for me to have a mechanical advantage based solely on my interest in roleplaying in Port at this time, which I do by continuing to have RPXP effectively no matter where I go on my Port character. I think letting faction bases gain RP XP would be a great start, especially DM supported ones- but I would also say having it extend to the Sanctuary and the tavern in the outskirts would be a great way to encourage people to use those spaces, especially at night- even having RPXP turned on in there JUST at night would be interesting.
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really though it isnt all noble stuff. Come be a terrorist or an underworld criminal or something.
Not interested. But I like there’s a place for people to play and feel rewarded for doing so for that kind of RP. All I ask is the same be afforded to those of us who prefer Barovia.
RP XP and the lack of it is the least of your concerns if you're comparing RP out in Nowhere, Barovia to the full package Dementlieu offers, and I'm not just talking about how there's a baguette model ingame but no turnip, or how Port is event city while Barovia, despite its size, is rarely the focus of any plot activity.
The one objective trade-up you get is how large Barovia is. Yet some of its inconveniences make people avoid the domain.
In spite of all the server's decade+ history, there's somewhere shy of a dozen people actively RPing native Barovians. There are three, maybe almost four times as many people RPing Dementlieuse characters. But Vallaki is huge and spread out, where Port is compact and convenient. You can also find people standing on the side of the road or at the terraces every single day. This is not true in Vallaki, and the outskirts doesn't really have anything to do with Vallaki so it doesn't count.
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really though it isnt all noble stuff. Come be a terrorist or an underworld criminal or something.
Not interested. But I like there’s a place for people to play and feel rewarded for doing so for that kind of RP. All I ask is the same be afforded to those of us who prefer Barovia.
RP XP and the lack of it is the least of your concerns if you're comparing RP out in Nowhere, Barovia to the full package Dementlieu offers, and I'm not just talking about how there's a baguette model ingame but no turnip, or how Port is event city while Barovia, despite its size, is rarely the focus of any plot activity.
The one objective trade-up you get is how large Barovia is. Yet some of its inconveniences make people avoid the domain.
In spite of all the server's decade+ history, there's somewhere shy of a dozen people actively RPing native Barovians. There are three, maybe almost four times as many people RPing Dementlieuse characters. But Vallaki is huge and spread out, where Port is compact and convenient. You can also find people standing on the side of the road or at the terraces every single day. This is not true in Vallaki, and the outskirts doesn't really have anything to do with Vallaki so it doesn't count.
I don’t know what this has to do with the post. People are allowed preferences and mine isn’t with what happens in Port. Thus why I made this thread.
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All those faction bases in Barovia are not generating long-term attraction. They generate short term attraction over a long period of time. A significant number -- the overwhelming majority -- of faction players become inactive some time (e.g. within a couple months) after joining, or shelf the characters more or less indefinitely for many reasons others & I have posted about previously. Factions are understaffed as a result, to the point that membership in & involvement with noble houses of Dementlieu outnumber them.
The point of my post isn't that all those people were chasing the RP XP or fleeing what is perceived as a "high levels get out" mentality of Barovia. To reiterate, I'm not making up motives for other people. This is just raw information. If you want to learn why people play in Port and not Barovia, read their forum posts on the topic, or ask them individually.
The point of my post is to say that RP XP is just one very small reason to the very big problem that faction play & native play in Barovia are almost nonexistent compared to what's seen in Dementlieu. What's actually missing is DM interest (there will never be involvement without interest) and DM interest is hard to drum up when there aren't many players around for them to take an interest in.
You can't jam everyone into one tent, but Barovia's tent blew away because there weren't enough people holding it down, is what I'm saying. People are allowed preferences, but while those preferences may be respected, that doesn't necessarily mean action will be taken. RP XP isn't going to bring something back to Barovia that was never there. It's going to take a few if not several active DMs and a large number of players interested in Barovian-based native & faction play.
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I’ve had plenty of meaningful RP in Barovia over the last few months, including events with DMs. I believe you may be missing the point of this post though, as this is not in any way attempting to “breathe life” into Barovia, or draw people to Barovia. The point here is to allow those characters who still play there over 14 with good reason to be rewarded for their RP just like they would anywhere else.
Anything further than that is not part of my request, nor do I feel any need to bring my character to Port. Again, glad it’s there for people who want it. It’s not for me.
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You can see in my post history that I agree with you, but given the dev team's stance you too will be expected to provide a long list of reasons why level 14 isn't enough only to be told the cap isn't changing due to close monitoring of metrics not available to you.
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The metric that is available to me is personal enjoyment of time invested, which honestly should be the only metric anyone truly puts stock in to when it comes to these topics. Barovia is a preferred setting for many people, and it’s unfortunate that those who do enjoy it are rewarded less for role-playing there on an RP server compared to other areas.
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All those faction bases in Barovia are not generating long-term attraction. They generate short term attraction over a long period of time. A significant number -- the overwhelming majority -- of faction players become inactive some time (e.g. within a couple months) after joining, or shelf the characters more or less indefinitely for many reasons others & I have posted about previously. Factions are understaffed as a result, to the point that membership in & involvement with noble houses of Dementlieu outnumber them.
The point of my post isn't that all those people were chasing the RP XP or fleeing what is perceived as a "high levels get out" mentality of Barovia. To reiterate, I'm not making up motives for other people. This is just raw information. If you want to learn why people play in Port and not Barovia, read their forum posts on the topic, or ask them individually.
The point of my post is to say that RP XP is just one very small reason to the very big problem that faction play & native play in Barovia are almost nonexistent compared to what's seen in Dementlieu. What's actually missing is DM interest (there will never be involvement without interest) and DM interest is hard to drum up when there aren't many players around for them to take an interest in.
You can't jam everyone into one tent, but Barovia's tent blew away because there weren't enough people holding it down, is what I'm saying. People are allowed preferences, but while those preferences may be respected, that doesn't necessarily mean action will be taken. RP XP isn't going to bring something back to Barovia that was never there. It's going to take a few if not several active DMs and a large number of players interested in Barovian-based native & faction play.
Barovia is ridiculously active for RP, numerous people doing a variety of different things. We have one PC who runs bardic events, Christian trying to evangelize people.. I am at a loss as to why anyone would think the RP in Barovia is lackluster or missing.. if anything it is much more bountiful then any other region I've been in including Port. Sadly it seems we don't get many DMs throwing their attention at us there, so we make do with what we got and that is awesome PCs..
That said, the point of this post has more to do with RPXP in faction bases, or just generally available, not the quality of the city build, or even the quality of the RP.. just the very fact that players get rewarded for the immersive expereince they provide to the server.
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All those faction bases in Barovia are not generating long-term attraction. They generate short term attraction over a long period of time. A significant number -- the overwhelming majority -- of faction players become inactive some time (e.g. within a couple months) after joining, or shelf the characters more or less indefinitely for many reasons others & I have posted about previously. Factions are understaffed as a result, to the point that membership in & involvement with noble houses of Dementlieu outnumber them.
The point of my post isn't that all those people were chasing the RP XP or fleeing what is perceived as a "high levels get out" mentality of Barovia. To reiterate, I'm not making up motives for other people. This is just raw information. If you want to learn why people play in Port and not Barovia, read their forum posts on the topic, or ask them individually.
The point of my post is to say that RP XP is just one very small reason to the very big problem that faction play & native play in Barovia are almost nonexistent compared to what's seen in Dementlieu. What's actually missing is DM interest (there will never be involvement without interest) and DM interest is hard to drum up when there aren't many players around for them to take an interest in.
You can't jam everyone into one tent, but Barovia's tent blew away because there weren't enough people holding it down, is what I'm saying. People are allowed preferences, but while those preferences may be respected, that doesn't necessarily mean action will be taken. RP XP isn't going to bring something back to Barovia that was never there. It's going to take a few if not several active DMs and a large number of players interested in Barovian-based native & faction play.
I actually agree with a lot of this but keeping with the vibe of the original post, it's not Barovia that is the main point of contention. He's specifically asking for the faction bases in Barovia, which usually are expected to maintain a certain about of RP true to the setting. I think you're right in the sense that something is lacking from the overall Barovia RP, but it's not accurate to say it was never there. Hell going back a really long time ago you used to have to submit an application to play a native and prove you knew how to handle the RP well. RP is always player driven, having a DM to help it flow is certainly extremely helpful. But it's ultimately up to those involved. So a little incentive to get that activity isn't necessarily a bad thing
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I don't like to look at XP as a reward for RP, otherwise the dev team is making some pretty severe ongoing statements about RP that takes place in Barovia. I'm not gonna go and put words in their mouth though.
My stance has been for the longest time to lift the restriction, ideally everywhere, but faction bases would be fine. Not sure why the compromise even has to be made. Compromises never satisfy either side, and neither do stalemates, like this debate which has polarised many people over the years. RP XP may as well be granted everywhere. You sure won't see any threads asking to remove it.
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We've reached an agreement, quick close the thread
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If only we held elections for where RP XP could be gained.
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I don't like to look at XP as a reward for RP, otherwise the dev team is making some pretty severe ongoing statements about RP that takes place in Barovia. I'm not gonna go and put words in their mouth though.
My stance has been for the longest time to lift the restriction, ideally everywhere, but faction bases would be fine. Not sure why the compromise even has to be made. Compromises never satisfy either side, and neither do stalemates, like this debate which has polarised many people over the years. RP XP may as well be granted everywhere. You sure won't see any threads asking to remove it.
I think Gary Gygax did, so I think it's safe to say you might be in the minority on that.
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RP as it exists on a roleplaying server compared to RP as it exists in a tabletop RPG are two very different things. XP on the tabletop game is rewarded for completing encounters, whether that is sneaking past everything, negotiating your way through, or killing your way to victory. Talking amongst your party or with NPCs is generally not an option, those would be minority cases due to the structure of the standard game.
If we were rewarded XP just for roleplaying, it would be delivered in a much different fashion, and likely be far more rewarding. Right now it's easy for me at least to look at it like a general stimulus that helps you progress if you engage with other players long-term, regardless of whether or not you dungeon. It has no tabletop equivalent. Not even the chunks of XP you might get for seducing the dragon.
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I think you derailing the OP's intent. It isn't to debate the merit of RPXP, but to ask that RPXP be equal regardless of what RP hub you call home.
A debate about whether RpXp should exist is great, and possibly for another thread.
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I'm not derailing it or debating whether or not it should exist. I'm just here to post my support of RP XP becoming available in more locations - faction bases would be nice, including the publicly accessible areas, my ideal would be everywhere though, because if RP XP is such a meaningful incentive, I wouldn't want to see people lack incentive to go and RP long-term in places other than faction bases.
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I'm not derailing it or debating whether or not it should exist. I'm just here to post my support of RP XP becoming available in more locations - faction bases would be nice, including the publicly accessible areas, my ideal would be everywhere though, because if RP XP is such a meaningful incentive, I wouldn't want to see people lack incentive to go and RP long-term in places other than faction bases.
Ah my apologies, I don't know where I got the idea you were opposed to this.
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Reading through this thread, it seems that everything the XP cap in Barovia was supposed to archive did not end up working as intended. There are still plenty of lvl14+ characters coming to Vallaki for various reasons despite the lack of RP XP and those reasons are quite often story driven or because the characters fit better into that domain.
Personally I always felt like the higher lvl characters around Vallaki that I became aware of when I started on the server, all added a lot to the setting and did not hurt the immersion at all. Those are the characters that act as guides, that keep factions together and that provide the lore of the settings to the newer players. And personally, I have always felt a lot more threatened from higher lvl characters then monsters/settings, even if I had never met those characters or they were spending most of their time in other domains. So yes, they also act as a potential threat. Those characters have added an incredible amount of immersion to the overall setting and personally I would still much prefer to assume my lvl 7 characters could be hunted by a lvl 20 because of the decisions my character made. Excluding those higher lvl characters, hurts the immersion a lot more then having an occasional wizard turning into a dragon in the outskirts.
If the XP cap was intended to keep lvl14+ players from looting Vallaki area dungeons, I believe the recent changes regarding XP messages will help even more to prevent that then the RP XP cap, without doing that much collateral damage.
The RP XP cap seems to have significant negative effects on various players as a number of recent forum post have also indicated. It is (at least perceived by many) a mechanic to exclude people/characters and this is even enhanced by those actively telling people to "move to mist camp/port"
I do not think there are any issues regarding high lvl characters around Vallaki. Instead, I believe the issue is far more those who think that any character is an issue in any environment because of their lvl/class/whatever.
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I'm both curious and undecided on the OP's idea.
Full disclosure before I start rambling: I play a level 14+ character in Barovia. I lead a faction. We have a base. Probably 80 percent of that character's RP has happened exclusively in Barovia. Substantial chunks of it have happened in faction bases. There are a mixture of reasons why I don't move this character to Port long-term (nothing to do with the Port players, of course). I don't mind not getting RP XP in Western Barovia. The story has always seemed more important to me. This character will need a lot of time training elsewhere (time I rarely have IRL) to gain significant experience, so I've accepted that he probably won't advance much further in level (if at all) for the remainder of his time on the server. But that's just me.
With that out of the way, I'm curious what areas will qualify as "faction bases" under this proposal. There are the obvious ones, like the Kinship Lodge, the Red Vardo Offices, and the Citadel. What about the Refuge of Fifth Light for the Ezrites? Would the Sanctuary of Coming Dawn be counted as a faction base because that's where so many MLers spend their time, or would it only be the Sanctuary of Eternal Dawn to avoid all players loitering in the Coming Dawn to get RP XP, even when doing so doesn't make sense? Would the Drain count? Would rentals count? If so, how does that work? Would (just making this up) Bob Bobescu the wheelwright and his employees who collectively own Shop I get RP XP for RPing together in their shop with no one else around despite not being in a faction?
I'm not trying to criticize or critique. I'm genuinely intrigued as to what this system would look like. Did you have something specific in mind, Iolantir? Obviously, it's not all on you to come up with. I'm just wondering if you have more thoughts on it.
For me (speaking as the current head of a faction), the proposal boils down to a question of privilege and the mechanics of how to be more egalitarian. The proposal obviously rewards involvement in factions, which makes some sense: faction bases are RP hubs, and factions (when staffed well and working at peak performance) help to drive RP and plots for their members and the larger community.
However, as another poster points out, there's the concern of faction members having the privilege of RPing behind these plot-locked doors and getting RP XP for it. On one hand, that incentivizes people to either join or interact with these factions. Those are both welcome things. On the other hand, during the many times it's not practical or wise to simply throw open the doors and invite tons of people in, it creates a scenario where faction members are getting RP XP while a large portion of the Vallaki community is shut out from getting it because the nature of the discussion or event (clandestine meetings, plotting against Strahd, planning an assassination, etc.) in the faction base excludes participation from external characters. That's kind of a disadvantage.
There's also the concern that there are many large and/or legitimate factions who simply don't have a faction base (because all the rentals are taken) or can't afford one. The Crows, for instance, have had a good presence recently but don't have a faction base. The Gundarakite Rebels are another. These characters would be disenfranchised from the same RP XP opportunities that other factions who do have bases get, simply because there aren't enough rentals to go around. (The Gundarakites are a special case and wouldn't get a rental in Vallaki, but that's beside the point.) And while these characters could come RP in an existing faction's base, that's not always as simple, easy, or sensible as having your own base.
Another concern is faction base usage. Ideally, this RP XP system would encourage people to RP in faction bases and encourage factions to host events that draw people to the bases. It's sensible to think that there may eventually be an expectation that that's what happens. How is the success of that measured? Will factions that aren't able, for various reasons, to hold large or consistent events for various stretches of time have their faction base taken away, despite using it for smaller, internal-only functions more regularly? I don't want to fatalize, and I can't envision it happening, but it's a possibility with consequences that should be considered.
Altogether, I'm neither for nor opposed to the OP's proposal. I think there's some merit in it, given that level 14+ characters are encouraged to give up direct participation in many things in Barovia in favor of RP, facilitation, and support. I just think some extra scaffolding would need to be built around the idea to make it fair and viable for as many characters and factions as possible.
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Without derailing the points above or the thread as a whole, I've seen a couple of comments about being 14+ in Barovia. I'm not going to get into whether it should or shouldn't be; that's a discussion for another thread. It is what it is for now.
What being 14+ in Barovia really boils down to is "be respectful." That's stuff like trying to avoid sweeping dungeons for loot or fun, working with (A)MPCs' players to drive story rather than put another notch on the monster-hunting belt (even when you're PvPing or "hunting" them), asking (A)MPCs' players if they're comfortable with you initiating some hostile confrontations before doing so, facilitating plots and RP for others, sharing hooks and giving lower-level characters a chance to get involved and shine, and so on. Sometimes it may mean pulling punches even when it doesn't make IC sense. In the end, it's about teamwork.
I think Evendur captured it well with their post above. High-level characters can enhance ambiance. Being respectful is key. ("Being excellent," even?)
I'm not going to pretend for a second like I've always gotten that right. It just seems to me that it's something we all (myself included) can always bear in mind. That's just my two cents on it.
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Personally, I feel like restricting RPXP past 14+ is a dated idea that simply has proven itself to not work, so why instead of making a compromise that it should only be allowed in certain areas (which would shrink the scale of the issue slightly, but worsen the problem overall) why not just remove the RPXP cap everywhere?
Pretty much everyone I've talked to, whether it's in the casual chat or elsewhere are pretty heavily in favor of removing the cap entirely.
As it stands the system actively discourages players not from being in Barovia itself at high levels, but to have any meaningful stories take place down there.
The area Barovia takes up is quite large, and there's plenty of space for people to do things inside of Barovia itself, though trying to RP for any meaningful amount of time up near VoB is a bit of a crapshoot due to the location and such. There's also Port where people -could- go to get that RPXP if they really did care about it.. But that seems like a bit of a hand wave, doesn't it?
Why should a character who has no real reason to leave the area, who wants to simply be rewarded for their roleplay like in differing areas beyond west Barovia, simply be brushed off and told to go to an area they have no interest in going to?
All it does is put the player in this strange place where they -want- to be active in the area, they may have tons of friends in the area, they like the area more-so than any other, yet the server actively discourages them from involving in anything there once they've crossed a certain threshold?
It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to discourage players from enjoying, and partaking from something they may enjoy.
It's not like people are going to go from 14-20 off of the RPXP accumulated from lifting the restriction alone or anything, and the restriction itself clearly has done nothing to dissuade level 14+ characters from hanging around the area to begin with.
Should the person want to be there, they'll simply stay there.
What it comes down to is the higher level characters having the respect to give the lower levels a chance to shine (which many do!) and giving AMPC players that same respect.
Not all high level players want to simply walk up and smash a monster to pieces, perhaps they just want to talk to whatever it is?
Perhaps they want to help flesh out the story by taking it in a direction none of the lower level characters felt safe going in?
It actively stifles the potential of stories told inside of west Barovia itself by discouraging interaction with certain areas simply because you crossed an XP threshold.
Think of what interesting ways those players, who were previously actively discouraged away from the area, could take a lot of these stories? Their experience with the land and everything they've been through in that area in the past, their stories and experiences culminating in possibly an unseen path that may have not been taken before?
On the same topic, referring to some of what others have said before me, where are all the characters who have been through a lot of what the land had to offer?
Giving advice to the newly misted and overall adding to the setting by assisting people, helping each other and coming together?
They don't detract from the area, they add to it quite a lot. People who want to stay in Port will stay in Port, same with the MC, Hazlan and west Barovia, none of these differing areas are better than each other, so why make it so mechanically? They all have their differing themes and things that make them unique to be in, people just simply prefer some places to others.
I think the restriction has run its course and it's time to either lift it and allow all areas equal amounts of RPXP, or remove it in its entirety. There's just no need to split it all up this way.
I apologize if this is all over the place, but man. Is it too much to ask that everyone who likes the area simply gets what the other 75% of the server has no restriction on?
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As something of a freshly-minted baguette, I thought I’d throw my two cents in at 4am. Because I make good life decisions.
For the longest time, I hated the idea of Port RP. I hated the setting, I hated the area, and the few experiences I’d had up to that point with port and port RP were terrible. For me, Ravenloft is Barovia. It’s called Ravenloft. The setting is literally named for the sweet pad of Barovia’s resident goth kid. That’s the flavor I want when I want gothic horror. If all other things had been equal, I would be playing Barovian natives, hanging out in Vallaki, doing badass barovian stuff. Like eating turnips, getting drunk on tsuika and trying to shave neuri for sport. But that’s not how the server works. After a lot of frustration, I ended up making a character bound for port, and I can now say I will never go back.
I could give you a bunch of reasons why I’ve come to vastly prefer D’loo, but in the long run they aren’t actually why I’ve become a full-time Ouiaboo. Instead, I will probably never seriously play another B-side character because of how the server is now set up.
The stated desire of the dev team is to get high levels out of Barovia. Full stop. The RP XP system is specifically designed to help push them out and discourage high level characters from spending time there. When you hit 14, there is a line you’ve crossed that says “Do not play here.” What that means in practice is that no matter who my character is, where they are from, what their story is or long-term goals are, when you hit 14, it’s time to pack your bags and go.
Why then would I ever want to spend time then putting down roots and establishing story in a place where I am expected to abandon every part of it once I hit some arbitrary mechanical milestone? Those are plots you now need to work your way out of, friends and communities you need to leave, goals and motivations you need to abandon — or you can take a penalty that only occurs to you, in that place, where you are apparently not wanted.
The net result of all of this is that I will never make a long-term character who is in any way invested in literally anything happening in Barovia. I have no interest in building relationships, taking part in the community, in investing my time and emotional energy into building anything there, because I’m going to have to abandon it at some point completely disconnected from the actual role-play of the thing. Not only that, my goal instead becomes to grind as aggressively as possible while low-level in Barovia, so I can level out of the range as quickly as possible because my “real” RP doesn’t begin until level 12 and I go elsewhere. Any time doing non-goomba things in Barovia is effectively wasted. It’s just a series of cut-scenes and LFG hubs between dungeons.
You’d think this is the exact opposite of what you’d want from the server and the setting, but that’s exactly how the incentives now line up.
Crossing Barovia off the list means I’ll never bother making an elven character to participate in Elftown stuff. I’m not going to make a Dwarf to hang out in D’heim. That entire half of the server exists now as goomba-fodder until I can start running stuff out of BoV, then Har’akir. And once you’ve crossed the entire domain of Barovia off the list, what’s left?
Mist Camp? Hazlan?
Mist Camp RP is.. not my thing for the same reason I’ve never been able to stand hanging out on the outskirts. If that’s your jam, Ezra love you, but it’s always felt to me like waiting at a station for the next train to arrive. Hazlan at least feels like a place, but it is also the most singularly exclusive and inhospitable place on the server in terms of RP and concepts. I won’t even touch on that controversy here, save but for to say that unless you’re trying to get involved in some very specific types RP, it’s also a no-go.
So from here on out, literally every character I make going forward is going to be intended to live in Port, because it feels utterly pointless to design my characters to do anything else. Not if I plan on them living to see levels in the double digits. Mechanics working as intended? Y’all can decide.
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I would like to go back to OP's proposal, rather than duplicate one of the umpteenth threads on RPXP.
I understand the point, but I do not agree with it.
I believe the choice of not making Port (or Hazlan) and Vallaki the same level hub is due to technical reasons. I can very well be mistaken, but I believe it is easier to manage one specialized area such as western Vallaki for low level characters rather than three-four-five generic hubs with "lvl 1 to 20" dungeons. The Lands of Mists are not Arelith, each domain is an independent State and crossing borders is not easy nor granted to anyone. The solution is not elegant but all in all it's the best one (maybe one could propose native non barovian characters could start with more levels since they take forever to build up in order to go places like their own city at night).
What I do not find reasonable is thinking that a high medieval character can or should move from Vallaki to Port just like that, as if port was the same as Vallaki only harder and not a totally different place with different dynamics and background. That's what I would like not to see proposed anymore, it is disrespecting for those that play in Vallaki AND Port at the same time.
So, on the topic of letting RPXP for 14+level, I do not think it's a good idea. As Famous Seamus said, playing a powerful character in Vallaki requires responsibility: i have seen him more than once declining a confrontation or acting borderline out of character in order not to spoil lower level fun. Moreover, if martial characters are self contained war machines, powerful warders can make lower character make jumps and strides in term of combat prowess, making them effectively even 5 levels higher comparably.
I would like to see RPXP improved and if possible raised. There are many character concepts that do no dwell well with killing stuff. Heck, as a warden-to-be I would rather improve my level by talking and debating points and matters of faith rather than killing critters, and as a matter of fact I've passed much more time doing the first than the latter, and with much, much, much (...) more satisfaction. And then there are tons of other character concepts such as merchants, thieves, philosophers, erudites, loiters, dilettantes, crafters, and the topical dwarven streaker: all of them should be able to improve by talking and interacting one another, or well doing what they do.
So if a 14+ level character is sitting in Vallaki, it is because they have chosen to. They have a reason to, and they have the pleasure of. All in all I think it is a bit of a shame that there is no such a thing as a power check for characters beyond lvl 10, or a DM driven plot that pits them against the Mists to see if they are worthy to keep on keeping on (much like the wardens of Ezra). There are high level characters that are quite upbeat and rather out of place in a setting like Ravenloft, and endorsing more "life is easy in Vallaki!" kind of characters is not the good way to go, especially if the alternative is a trip to Tser Pool for a picnic wherever you want to go play, Har'Akir or Port or wherever.
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Viktor's post actually makes a scary amount of sense... :|
The late single-digits and early double-digits have traditionally been when I shelved my best characters, because no matter how I cut it, I couldn't keep having a satisfying experience on those characters.
Stay in Vallaki with the friends and plots that allowed them to last long enough to hit levels 8+ in the first place? Nope. Sometimes the friends leave for greener pastures on the other side of the mist wall; sometimes the friends appear too sporadically to singlehandedly sustain the PCs in between plot stuff. (This is often a timezone issue.) Either way, there's no longer any reason to log in except furthering the plots... and plot stuff mostly only happens when I'm asleep, anyway, so good luck sustaining one of my characters on that alone. (Citations: I missed Irida's mutilation by the Red Wolf. I missed the destruction of... whatever the MPC group was called again, last Halloween - the one with the vampire and the red widow. Most of the stuff the Company of the Phoenix was doing. Nasir's closure. Wesh's death. Most of Sirus' stuff. The only reason I can't honestly say I slept through Liliana's death and funeral is that I'd stopped playing outright, which supersedes timezone constraints. I probably slept through Gunaakt's death, too, but again - wasn't playing anymore anyway.)
Emigrating to the Mist Camp and beyond isn't much more fruitful. The friends either stay in Vallaki - the plots certainly get left behind! - or drift away to do their own things. Whatever connections might be formed in Vallaki are gradually dissolved unless maintained through deliberate OOC effort and coordination on both sides (this almost never happens), and my characters have always had a tendency of forming new bonds more slowly in later levels, either here or on BG. Due to its more political and social nature, Port RP typically only has an impact on the environment (however illusory that impact may really be, it's still an impact :P) if you interact with nobles, criminal kingpins, and DMs, which means that the only PCs I can transition into it without trapping myself in limbo are those with goals independent of their environment... except those are exactly the ones that are most dependent on their vanishing friends, or least interested in emigrating from Vallaki in the first place.
My only characters that haven't fallen victim to this phenomenon were Klie (too apathetic to play anywhere), Flip (his kender friends didn't emigrate, they just stopped playing), Anna (her futile pursuit of Halans distanced her from what few friends she had), Stefan (just a horrible concept to play here), and Gar (I started migrating back to BG halfway through his "natural" lifespan). El? Figuratively died in Port. Pierre? Likewise. Aela? Tried to stay in Barovia because her pixie was only accepted in Degannwy, but eventually finished her shelving in Port. Rala tried to stay in Barovia, then made a futile attempt at following her long-departed friends eastward before shelving in either Barovia or the Mist Camp. Aeryn definitely tried to stay in Barovia because of friends and plots, but the NCE resulted in the replacement of what few friends hadn't already been bumped out of her life by either timezones or Mist Camp migrations. Her lackluster performance, the purely-OOC (and never-fixed) loss of her entire store, and Gar's mediocre reception both during and after the NCE were actually responsible for much of my return to BG.
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Viktor's post actually makes a scary amount of sense... :|
[...]
thats more of an issue of TMZ than anything else. this is the same problem i had with my previous character: I would lay down all the ground work (not even for real sometimes, i would just make-believe searching and doing stuff, well fully knowing that all the people involved was on the wrong side of the GMT) and then the next day I would read all the posts about what a great RP it was and thank yous and no thank YOUs what a great time we had (at 8AM my time). But thats another set of problems altogether, not really level dependent. It's that the more you level up, the less things you can do alone, the more you are dependent on other people, and other places, and if in your specific time zone there is not enough of that your game experience will languish.
But if you are experiencing this problem, and i believe you have a lot of characters and experience under your belt, why not apply for an MPC? you can provide entertainment for your time zone for you and for those that have the little common sense and picked a poor place to be born :lol:
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But if you are experiencing this problem, and i believe you have a lot of characters and experience under your belt, why not apply for an MPC? you can provide entertainment for your time zone for you and for those that have the little common sense and picked a poor place to be born :lol:
My history with applications is pretty bad, and after several months of inactivity, I'm not sure I'm even eligible. Besides, I haven't even decided on whether I want to come back for the NCE.
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Is there a button I can hit that will immediately reset the topic of a post?
Why are we discussing MPCs now?
This is about rpxp / faction bases and baguettes …
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I like this idea, under one condition.
That because I'm part of the outlander faction, that all of Barovia is considered my faction base. No? Damn was worth a try!
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I agree. I see no reason why one hub deserves rpxp over another. Thus, I propose the greatest three sets of compromises
It is not about 'deserving', it is about one area specifically being designed as a low level experience and the server administration making a concious effort to encourage players to migrate their characters literally anywhere else on the server when they exceed the designed level cap.
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I agree. I see no reason why one hub deserves rpxp over another. Thus, I propose the greatest three sets of compromises
It is not about 'deserving', it is about one area specifically being designed as a low level experience and the server administration making a concious effort to encourage players to migrate their characters literally anywhere else on the server when they exceed the designed level cap.
Well, I had a bunch of text here, but I guess my words can be censored at any moment.
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It is not about 'deserving', it is about one area specifically being designed as a low level experience and the server administration making a concious effort to encourage players to migrate their characters literally anywhere else on the server when they exceed the designed level cap.
I think it was JustMonika that wrote this?
Either way, this would be fine if there were actual areas outside of Barovia that were suitable to characters that were made for the setting. Otherwise, the routine seems to be:
1) RP in Barovia until 14
2) Dungeon queue in Mist Camp until desired higher level
3) RP in Barovia
Most people who are 14+ and remain in Barovia that want to level take a trip to the Mist Camp and then come back to Barovia. So whatever the intention behind removing RPXP, as mentioned many times here already, it doesn't seem to work. People are going to RP where they want to RP, and given it's an RP server, I don't see any actual reason to remove the small XP reward based on where someone decides to RP. It feels incredibly elitist to expect people to sever any and all ties they formed and ignore their faction allegiance simply because chatting in Port counts as character progression, but chatting in the Wayfarer Lodge doesn't.
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Oh my goodneess, I'm so sorry. I seem to have accidentally edited someone else's post when meaning to edit my own. I wholeheartedly apologise.
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I’ve decided to write up my two cents for this thread. Some of these points I’ve made in other threads. Some of these are going to be very controversial. But I think I’ve come to a conclusion in support of the RP Cap in Barovia. In fact, I would argue an attitude of a ‘level cap’ – merely an attitude, not mechanically enforced – is in order – and I suspect that is the reasoning behind all of this.
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On Port
First, I want to address all the nonsense joking about Port RP in this thread and plainly state that it really is not as funny as you may think it is, especially in this context. A lot of the ‘joking’ on this thread is borderline if not directly insulting to the style of play and RP that a good chunk of the server enjoys – because it implies that Port RP is a server-wide ‘problem’. Please try to keep that in mind and be respectful of your fellow players.
Port RP is in my honest opinion not only unique to the server, but unique to Neverwinter Nights as a whole. If efforts were made to strip qualities from it (and some already have), the opportunities for fantastic and different RP would vanish into just another place with some light dressing. As someone who has played this game going on two decades, this is refreshing. It is not for everyone – but I refute the idea that the server demands everyone get used to Port. That is not the case at all, and I will explain why below.
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On Barovia, RP XP, and what I deem the conflict between Grimdark setting and persistent world expectation.
I’m just going to begin with my main points here and now, bold and simple.
Grimdark and High Levels do not go together.
High Level play is in direct opposition to the setting and feeling of Barovia.
Gaining levels is a trap for one who wishes such an experience.
A lot of this may feel repetitive, but some of the very basic premises of Ravenloft as a setting, and Grimdark as an experience, is limited level and power. One complaint we see from AMPCs and Barovian PCs consistently is High Level PCs storming in when trouble arises. This is because that is in direct opposition to what the Barovian experience is supposed to be about. PC’s in Barovia are supposed to be at a limited level and power. Garda are supposed to be at a limited level. Factions within Barovia should be to some extent lesser in power than even their counterparts elsewhere.
Immediately a retort comes to mind – how can that be fair?
Grimdark is not meant to be fair and equal to everyone who participates. Nor is it meant to be a means by which a character grows into a powerful being capable of stopping and solving the problem. The very act of leveling up to the point to be able to easily beat AMPCs misses the point. This is why Ravenloft modules sue for low level characters, and generally end gameplay in Barovia around level 10. Anything beyond that strips the very point of ‘Fearing the Night’.
Ravenloft was built for the table, not for the persistent world. In comes the compromise. We know from a simple evaluation of low-level, high-mortality servers that most players in Neverwinter Nights do not enjoy the experience. We know that, with how much time we dedicate from our lives to build that of our character, we do not want life to be as cheap – this isn’t a weekly game of DnD but days, weeks, months, and even years of the unique character-building experience that is Neverwinter Nights.
Barovia, and the Factions within, I think need to be kept to the same level 14 RP cap as everyone else. In fact, I believe level 14 to be very generous given the small gap between it and level 20. As immediately reprehensible as the stopping of progression may seem on the surface, I believe this is how you maintain the grimdark atmosphere of Barovia and scratch that itch for the style of play. Level 15+ characters in Barovia with a focus on Barovia I think hurt the setting. Unless they are willing to exclusively act as patrons to lower-level adventuring groups and lower ranked membership of a faction – but I think that is the purpose of level 14’s in Barovia.
I would argue players who make dedicated characters to Barovia should be able to opt-in to a level cap with certain benefits. By sacrificing progression and access to many parts of the server, they instead remain to promote the atmos of low-level play for the rest of us. What are these benefits? I don’t want to speculate nor do I have it in mind as I write this. It is just a thought.
Something else to help the atmosphere would be mechanically level capping areas around that part of Barovia. AMPCs can prowl areas knowing a level 20 mist camp gank squad is not around the corner. Players who decide to move on to other parts of the server consider their respective pursuits ‘bigger fish to fry’ than what is happening in Barovia.
This OOC understanding and expectation can feel very meta, can feel like it is a means to split the player base – but as long as expectations are clearly cut out from the beginning, players can make informed decisions on what they want to do and participate in. I am by no means asking to restrict high level players from RP areas in Barovia. They can visit – just as Barovians can visit elsewhere. But when it comes to dangers, facing monsters, and going after threats… each agree to focus on their areas and come up with IC reasoning to help facilitate the style of play.
That about concludes my ramble. Hope it makes sense.
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I see more people saying that AMPCs are consistently complaining about high level players in Barovia. Since my last post here, I have not complained about having to deal with high levels. Neither have any of the other AMPCs that I talk to on daily. This is likely a thing of the past, I personally don't care if a high level comes to Barovia to try and slap me around.
I think that it's worth saying it again.
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Barovia, and the Factions within, I think need to be kept to the same level 14 RP cap as everyone else. In fact, I believe level 14 to be very generous given the small gap between it and level 20. As immediately reprehensible as the stopping of progression may seem on the surface, I believe this is how you maintain the grimdark atmosphere of Barovia and scratch that itch for the style of play. Level 15+ characters in Barovia with a focus on Barovia I think hurt the setting. Unless they are willing to exclusively act as patrons to lower-level adventuring groups and lower ranked membership of a faction – but I think that is the purpose of level 14’s in Barovia.
There's a lot in your post that I disagree with that I've already posted elsewhere, but I feel like this deserved some highlighting.
Grimdark can be Grimdark regardless of level. I have gone on adventures in Barovia with characters who are over level 17, and the Grimdark setting still held true, in Barovia. Artificial caps don't do any actual limiting of the Grimdark experience. The experience comes from proper roleplay and respect of the setting, which can be respected or disrespected regardless of level.
As someone that is 14+ and will continue playing in Barovia, having surrounded myself with people who are higher level than me, I've never felt like the Grimdark part of the setting has been disregarded or disrespected. These elements exist for all levels, and have for the last few months. Perhaps especially for the factions (which is why this original post was geared towards factions), but even those not in the faction who are over 14 have experienced Grimdark elements, and had their characters effected by it.
Truthfully, if we're going to be level capping anything, it should be a server wide cap of level 12. Server wide... So Barovia, Port, Hazlan, everywhere. But that won't happen.
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Well, I don't remember quite what it was I wrote before my text was removed accidently.
But I do remember my compromises
1. Remove RP XP entirely.
2. Equal RPXP (to 14) for all areas.
3. Full RPXP for all areas.
secret option: level 14 cap
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I can, however, respond to JustMonika's statement
It is not about 'deserving', it is about one area specifically being designed as a low level experience and the server administration making a concious effort to encourage players to migrate their characters literally anywhere else on the server when they exceed the designed level cap.
Unfortunately, I do not think the administration's method of high-level push out works. Infact, I believe it actually ENFORCES the port-hate due to a haves and haves-not system.
I preface this with: I don't actually hate port, it's just a bit of banter and fun but they do they and I do me.
Part of the issue is the 'literally anywhere else' is very few areas actually allow for this.
I'll go down the list.
Eastern Barovia: Empty and atmospherically against players existing there (Strahd's right there)
Hazlan: Non-native caster or religion? Can't be there. Non-human? Can't be there, unless you want to be a slave.
Har Akir: Empty
Blaustein: Empty
Mist Camp: Meme central and not conducive to roleplay. You can try, but the stigma is there.
Ghastria: Empty
Port: Completely different roleplay, completely different atmosphere
Port underground: Mostly empty as far as I know
Can roleplay be built in these areas? Surely they can, but it is a lot of effort and time to put into it that may just...puff into the wind once the movers and shakers leave, go on break, or get tired of it. I don't have that kind of energy or time in me, I've spent enough time RP and I don't want to try and create something that might not ever happen.
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Back on topic
If faction RPXP is a thing, what determines if a faction is deserving of it. Obviously, official factions, but what of player factions? Are they to choose between no progression or moving to somewhere that may or may not make sense for them? If you collect ten active people for your group, are you not just as deserving as the other factions?
Second, does this RPXP only count for faction members (those currently in a faction hierarchy)? This would likely disuade people from rping with these factions if they do not give rpxp.
Third, is this even possible? Who is going to create the factionRPXP zone code and designate every area of a faction with this property? If player factions count, then who will add and re-add the property every time a rental changes?
The logistics of the faction RPXP system don't really make sense.
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It would have been a few threads ago now but I believe at some point either MAB or EO mentioned that with the numbers they've analyzed, the concept of pushing High Levels out of Western Barovia was a success overall.
That being said, having RP XP on an RP server but having it not apply to everyone will always be a silly concept to me. Either have it apply to all players or remove it. No matter how you swing it it comes across that even if you're a responsible player your stories and RP matter less than someone else. Trying to pretty it up by giving it some sort of extra purpose doesn't really change that in my opinion.
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I just wonder at some point if it's the immersive Barovian experience that's being sought why is it a requirement to move when you're out of RP XP? Is it an obligation to move because our character doesn't gain stats anymore? The development remains possible on the roleplay and personal level, it's a good limit that forces players to think a little bit more during situations involving pvp / Dm / Mpc conflict.
I can't really complain because I didn't play my character higher than a certain level in this region but it was more of a question from me on this point. What is the difference between the level 20 cap in the global game and the level 14 cap, does reaching this cap imply to stop playing?
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To Armada, and trying not to go into a long post;
Competition between players in different spheres of influence is the core of the issue.
Numerous examples could be cited by fifty odd people of higher levels dunking on lower levels, its an argument as old as time. Beaten to death.
Roleplay XP as it is, does do its work of pushing the spheres apart, higher levels stay in higher areas, usually, because they can get higher levels there. The spheres still overlap during events unfortunately, instigated PvP or otherwise. Challenges become geared toward the highest contenders, be it skills rolled during roleplay or actual combat.
The issue isnt people stopping playing when they reach X level, but numerous small issues arise when people want to continue playing regardless of level. Irksome, minor first world problem issues that form into a massive pile of complaints.
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I just wonder at some point if it's the immersive Barovian experience that's being sought why is it a requirement to move when you're out of RP XP? Is it an obligation to move because our character doesn't gain stats anymore? The development remains possible on the roleplay and personal level, it's a good limit that forces players to think a little bit more during situations involving pvp / Dm / Mpc conflict.
I can't really complain because I didn't play my character higher than a certain level in this region but it was more of a question from me on this point. What is the difference between the level 20 cap in the global game and the level 14 cap, does reaching this cap imply to stop playing?
It's not a requirement to leave nor is it implied that you have to stop playing, it simply discourages players from being active in the area past a certain point.
Plenty of people past level 14+ play in the area fairly regularly, myself included, and don't truly care about the XP gained from RP there whatsoever, it's more of the fact of as stated earlier, you don't want to do anything meaningful in the area. Once you hit level 12 you're basically pushed to wrap it up and go somewhere else, no matter what you may have been involved in before hand, the friends you made or any stories attempting to be told.
Take away the RPXP from all areas, now everyone is in the same boat. Your character would have to go to wildly different areas they likely have no reason to be in just to have anything get done. Think about someone who starts in Port, they lose that slow burn XP they could have used to progress while actually telling their story. Take it away however and now this person who has no real reason to be in these areas are now going there simply so they don't get left even more so in the dust by the people who dungeon run like mad. It's character development two-fold.
I see the RPXP reward as your character growing from the conversations they have along with the experiences they have.
So why does the growth of your character stop simply because you passed a threshold? They can have new experiences and change in many ways by what happens to them while they're in Barovia, no matter what level they are, so why bother restricting the reward that is, again, present everywhere -but- western Barovia?
Level 14+ players will naturally go to the MC and areas beyond if they want the XP from dungeoning and such, regardless of any imposed restriction needlessly placed on the west.
The system doesn't stop anything from happening, because these things were always going to happen. People who want to dungeon are going to the MC, while people who want to roleplay in the west will still roleplay in the west. It really just tells players "You can roleplay here all you want, but you really should have done it somewhere else."
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I've been thinking about how to respond to this for a bit, I'm not the best at forum posts, nor putting across my thoughts in a clear and concise manner. I play a (currently) level 10 Morninglordian Cleric, the thought of being capped at level 14 is horrifying to me, because I can only think of one reason to ever leave Vallaki (or Barovia as a whole), and that is church outreach, which, doesn't happen as much, nor is it supported, encouraged or really necessary. The Morninglord church specifically has been designated as a support structure for low levels, as every (even some highbies) have at some point sought shelter from Old Night. It's likely to remain such, and being part of the faction is a privilege, to be able to anchor yourself in something so canon is fun, though I find I burn out a bit and so I take breaks. Should I reach level 13, or 14, I can only imagine this is why so many MLers end up retiring, MPCing their toons or just quitting.
I hereby lend my voice in supporting the OP suggestion of faction based RP exp. Some players CAN be trusted with restraint, to pull their punches and not go full HAM on MPCs. But as Holgard stated, even if we were to go HAM on some MPC, that's okay too, because the threat can and should flow both ways. We need to take care going into the Night because of BBEG Vampires, but if we had the ability to be higher level, they would need to pick their fights too. I've seen heaps of high level players pull their punches, allow for story and RPing, even if they could machine-gun down MPCs... Maybe it's because I'm a newer player (just one year) and I don't see the world people are describing when they say high levels in Barovia are a problem anymore.
I ramble a little, i'm sorry, wordz are hardz.
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I think RPXP got a new value now that it helps people go down their cap.
It was never great...but if it takes you back to killing monsters and gaining xp....then people will seek it.
Gona tell my experience....sometime ago my character got to the upper xp cap. Couldnt get a single xp point from killing anything.
So i thought: "Well...i need to rp a lot to go back to normal.."
Passed sometime on myst camp..but you know what kind rp i usually get on myst camp? People asking me to go out kill monsters. And that made me feel like the guy out of the playground because everybody was going to have fun killing monsters and i couldnt..or at least i couldnt if wanted to get my cap down.
So i thought...where can i go to get REAL roleplay? Port was an option but i am always fully armored...so cant go there. HAzlani would kill me. All that was left is barovia. And in barovia i found rp...but my xp didnt go up. So what i did? Left my character rest for 2 weeks and then later i came back.
So what was accomplished? I lost 2 weeks not playing. Is it the purpose of the game for me not play? I doubt it.
I was a DM of tabletop rpg once...and to my opition...RP should always be rewarded. NO MATTER what. RP is the core of dungeons and dragons...its what make it more than just a hackn slash diablo game. It should always be rewarded. No matter where. And a rp between a high lvl character and a low lvl character makes no difference. In fact...your character shouldnt know the difference.
Taking gear aside...and gear depends on wealth and not always related with lvl....your character shouldnt know the difference between a lvl 1 warrior and a lvl 20 monk. Roleplay knows no level. Makes no sense talk about levels on roleplay. Levels are a mechanical thing. And not rewarding a high lvl character for doing good rp is bad decision on my book.
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No matter how you swing it it comes across that even if you're a responsible player your stories and RP matter less than someone else. Trying to pretty it up by giving it some sort of extra purpose doesn't really change that in my opinion.
This is how it feels, yes.
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No matter how you swing it it comes across that even if you're a responsible player your stories and RP matter less than someone else. Trying to pretty it up by giving it some sort of extra purpose doesn't really change that in my opinion.
This is how it feels, yes.
I played a higher level character who almost exclusively RPed out of the Drain (Eliza Sorry). I believe strongly that I added to the RP atmosphere of Vallaki by running events, RPing with MPCs rather than pushing them out, and generally being around to chat up folks in the Drain.
However, at the back of my mind was _always_ the little reminder that my contributions to the server in this location are not as valued as someone in the other RP Hubs. I pushed through it, of course, and enjoyed phenomenal roleplay with the folks in the Drain over my character's entire lifespan, but it was annoying to know that my RP choices put me at a mechanical disadvantage to players who based themselves out of Port or the Mist Camp.
I feel strongly that the RP XP cap in Barovia has served its purpose as was intended back when it was added. There is a ton of movement across the server and the other domains are visited because people _want_ to go there. I don't think we need a stick to drive characters out of Vallaki, when the carrots of interesting RP locales, dungeon adventures, and cool amenities elsewere are abundant and well known by the playerbase at large.
The stick just feels bad for the players who care the most about the Vallaki setting :(
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it was annoying to know that my RP choices put me at a mechanical disadvantage to players who based themselves out of Port or the Mist Camp.
So you fear PVP against people from beyond the mist wall, essentially?
And your character is so encroached in the drain that wouldnt leave her place in roder to kill mummies and salamanders?
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it was annoying to know that my RP choices put me at a mechanical disadvantage to players who based themselves out of Port or the Mist Camp.
So you fear PVP against people from beyond the mist wall, essentially?
And your character is so encroached in the drain that wouldnt leave her place in roder to kill mummies and salamanders?
I'm not sure how you got a fear of PVP from this post, but I don't believe this is what they're trying to say.
Some characters simply don't want to go faceroll mummies or salamanders and would prefer to stay where they are and keep on doing what they're doing.
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No matter how you swing it it comes across that even if you're a responsible player your stories and RP matter less than someone else. Trying to pretty it up by giving it some sort of extra purpose doesn't really change that in my opinion.
This is how it feels, yes.
I played a higher level character who almost exclusively RPed out of the Drain (Eliza Sorry). I believe strongly that I added to the RP atmosphere of Vallaki by running events, RPing with MPCs rather than pushing them out, and generally being around to chat up folks in the Drain.
However, at the back of my mind was _always_ the little reminder that my contributions to the server in this location are not as valued as someone in the other RP Hubs. I pushed through it, of course, and enjoyed phenomenal roleplay with the folks in the Drain over my character's entire lifespan, but it was annoying to know that my RP choices put me at a mechanical disadvantage to players who based themselves out of Port or the Mist Camp.
I feel strongly that the RP XP cap in Barovia has served its purpose as was intended back when it was added. There is a ton of movement across the server and the other domains are visited because people _want_ to go there. I don't think we need a stick to drive characters out of Vallaki, when the carrots of interesting RP locales, dungeon adventures, and cool amenities elsewere are abundant and well known by the playerbase at large.
The stick just feels bad for the players who care the most about the Vallaki setting :(
Agreed!
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it was annoying to know that my RP choices put me at a mechanical disadvantage to players who based themselves out of Port or the Mist Camp.
So you fear PVP against people from beyond the mist wall, essentially?
And your character is so encroached in the drain that wouldnt leave her place in roder to kill mummies and salamanders?
You're still at a mechanical disadvantage. And, having played a character for an extensive amount of time in Vallaki, in a conflict heavy faction (Red Vardo), I constantly was watching enemies I made simply move to the mist camp for a month, and shoot past me in level. RPXP adds up. It's real.
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I'm not sure how you got a fear of PVP from this post, but I don't believe this is what they're trying to say.
Some characters simply don't want to go faceroll mummies or salamanders and would prefer to stay where they are and keep on doing what they're doing.
because they spoke of disadvantages. Against whom? I inferred they were talking about more powerful people that would antagonize their character that chose not to go levelling up away. I was not sure, so i asked.
You're still at a mechanical disadvantage. And, having played a character for an extensive amount of time in Vallaki, in a conflict heavy faction (Red Vardo), I constantly was watching enemies I made simply move to the mist camp for a month, and shoot past me in level. RPXP adds up. It's real.
So yes?
I need to clarify, i am not being sarcastic or loaded, i genuinely dont know the answer of this question.
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I'm not sure how you got a fear of PVP from this post, but I don't believe this is what they're trying to say.
Some characters simply don't want to go faceroll mummies or salamanders and would prefer to stay where they are and keep on doing what they're doing.
because they spoke of disadvantages. Against whom? I inferred they were talking about more powerful people that would antagonize their character that chose not to go levelling up away. I was not sure, so i asked.
You're still at a mechanical disadvantage. And, having played a character for an extensive amount of time in Vallaki, in a conflict heavy faction (Red Vardo), I constantly was watching enemies I made simply move to the mist camp for a month, and shoot past me in level. RPXP adds up. It's real.
So yes?
I need to clarify, i am not being sarcastic or loaded, i genuinely dont know the answer of this question.
The way you've worded "so you fear pvp from beyong the mist wall, essentially?" does sound a little sarcastic and dismissive of a genuine concern. Players like myself are anchored to Vallaki for very real reasons, we simply cannot go off and go levelling very far, and very often. What kind of Morninglordian of Vallaki's Parish would I be if I rarely set foot in Vallaki, or Barovia because of my need to dungeon in order to get exp (putting aside the fact that Morninglordians cannot just go to the wolf cave or go kill waifs and criminals in the port, only the undead are the enemies of the dawn). Using myself as the example only, though I understand Red Vardo have a bit more flexibility, as merchants and shady persons :twisted: , I have seen Ezrites in the Mist Camp, and they have a concreted faction base in the Port as well allowing more flexibility. Members of the Drain faction and the Morninglord church are anchored to these locations, Garda too for that matter. Exceptions are always possible, but to look to them first is silly IMO
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cross my heart, i was not dismissive. I only had a couple characters so far in the server, and my playing style naturally drifts towards some things and avoids others, so i have no experience of other people's specific experiences. Never been in the drain, hate PVP with all the fibers of my soul and never camped in the mists, to say a few.
So fearing pvp for a kind of character that lives in an environment i know nothing about is a genuine question i dont know the answer for. I literally know nothing about what the vardo do all day except maybe filling ledgers and ninjalooting places (i guess?).
For some reason, i presumed factions within Vallaki mostly interacted with one another, so if they are all capped to lvl 14... i mean no biggie. The problem comes if for some reason there are plots that cross factions from say Port and Vallaki, so then I can understand the issue. But as i said, i have no experience of that, so i asked.
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cross my heart, i was not dismissive. I only had a couple characters so far in the server, and my playing style naturally drifts towards some things and avoids others, so i have no experience of other people's specific experiences. Never been in the drain, hate PVP with all the fibers of my soul and never camped in the mists, to say a few.
So fearing pvp for a kind of character that lives in an environment i know nothing about is a genuine question i dont know the answer for. I literally know nothing about what the vardo do all day except maybe filling ledgers and ninjalooting places (i guess?).
For some reason, i presumed factions within Vallaki mostly interacted with one another, so if they are all capped to lvl 14... i mean no biggie. The problem comes if for some reason there are plots that cross factions from say Port and Vallaki, so then I can understand the issue. But as i said, i have no experience of that, so i asked.
Some factions are more willing to depart Western Barovia than others, despite having their hubs in the Vallaki region. Degannwy, for instance, has several high-level characters well above the level 14 threshold.
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cross my heart, i was not dismissive. I only had a couple characters so far in the server, and my playing style naturally drifts towards some things and avoids others, so i have no experience of other people's specific experiences. Never been in the drain, hate PVP with all the fibers of my soul and never camped in the mists, to say a few.
So fearing pvp for a kind of character that lives in an environment i know nothing about is a genuine question i dont know the answer for. I literally know nothing about what the vardo do all day except maybe filling ledgers and ninjalooting places (i guess?).
For some reason, i presumed factions within Vallaki mostly interacted with one another, so if they are all capped to lvl 14... i mean no biggie. The problem comes if for some reason there are plots that cross factions from say Port and Vallaki, so then I can understand the issue. But as i said, i have no experience of that, so i asked.
These factions should interact with one another, but they don't. Morninglord faction intersects with Kinship, garda and sometimes the Ezrite church. Very rarely would we have any involvement with say, the RVT. Garda and RVT intersect I imagine, Kinship and Garda too from time to time. Degannwy is a bit of a wildcard, as they can have broad reach. Drain and Morninglord church too, Natalya is always welcoming Caliban at night. But being capped at level 14 is the killer, characters might retire because there is no mechanical progression, which is a thing I, personally, and many others, require.
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The ferry should be deleted because it is most easily abused by high levels for whom money is not an object. This should make room for RP XP in Vallaki after level 14.
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The ferry should be deleted because it is most easily abused by high levels for whom money is not an object. This should make room for RP XP in Vallaki after level 14.
I'd take this tbh
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I think its best to give up your hopes for the RPXP penalty to be removed.
Yes its sad. I read on here many examples which are the same as my own, where my high level character would be generating roleplay, plot, and atmosphere in an otherwise barren area. Giving guidance and plot hooks to new characters. Its all great and dandy, but no XP gain.
So what to do:
1. RP more. With actual quality RP. The meme crap tier RP in mist camp should be flushed down the toilet.
2. RP is actually faster XP that dungeoning on the long run. I saw too many in here speaking from a misconception that it is slower. Gather up a trio of players who are responsive, more is always better and get into some business and bonding. If you can start conflict with another group, start conflict. RP and craft is another good option. You will blow levels past those who run dungeon after dungeon.
3. The trouble is many players have a hard time finding quality RP. The server population needs to make use of "looking for roleplay", but I don't know how to cause such a shift. I don't think anyone actually uses it. I forget if that feature displays your location, but if it doesn't, the developers ought to make it do so. First, give your character an ic reason to go one of these high level zones. Find an IC reason to leave your comfy faction in Barovia. Then go and turn your RP flag on. Or bring people with you! I know some players take issue, their character would not fit in Port or Hazlan. How about the others? We have the problem that some of the preferable zones for a character are simply empty such as Blaustein or Har'akir. But if roleplay beacons are lit and players use this feature, they will go there. And hopefully you give an effort in your RP, that you all come back to these locations routinely and form RP bonds that will extend beyond the first meeting.
4. Get out there and tell a damn story. Be interesting. Involve your character.
Thankfully this server has many players who do great RP. I wish more followed their lead!
(https://i.imgur.com/PcAlDU3.png)
This could be YOU, with a little RP.
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That would be great.
Problem is most places have dungeon-related rp.
It is a big issue...specially to a server who says rp is so important...
I think there should be more hubs.
Once i tried to go east barovia and live with my character there. After a few posts EO told me with all letters that it should not be a hub.
I think Har'akir could be a great hub, lots of dungeons and stuff to do. And a great tale of the desert. Man that place could be really fun to have many factions...but the curse says it can never prosper.
Hazlan is great...if anyone wants to have great rp go to hazlan...there is a place the dms found a nice spot...I hear port is a nice spot too.
I think the main issue here is that Myst camp is the main hub. And myst camp is not even a city...its a camp of vistanis. It has its own bank and fortress and right now...its the best place to find people. But its also a hub for people wanting to go find dungeons. So the main rp there is "lets group up and go kill mobs...somewhere".
And people in the myst camp not even say "lets go to hazlan..." they say "lets go kill cursts." They dont say lets go to braunstein they say "lets go kill some squids on the shipwreck". I think it should be seen as a disaster....because it takes away all the lore and effort dms put on the place and make it become a hacknslash game. Tell you more...least in barovia to get to the vestibules one would have to pass the city....and if they casted magic every npc would complain. Hazlan you can go to the cursts dungeon on the most xenophobic and anti-foreigner place ever and cast spells without the authorization of hazlik and nobody...NOBODY will complain. So hazlan to most players is a place where there is the dungeon of cursts. And that's it.
I think the best way to create great rp is to use more of the domains...to make people to fix their group and factions ont he domains, be part of it...live there and be deeply related with all that happens in that domain. Would be great to have housing...if housing existed i would no doubt have my character fixed in the domain where my house is. Right now if you think about it...most domains is not really seen as domains, but as places where that particular dungeon is.
People want to log and find other players. The game already penalizes a lot if you log to do dungeons alone and nobody will be rping with the npc. So you have to find other players. If the place to find others is Myst camp, that's where you will go. If the main thing you do in the myst camp is to group up to go to a dungeon, that's what everybody will do. The game is ASKING us not to rp, but to form groups to go do dungeons.
I think its best to give up your hopes for the RPXP penalty to be removed.
Yes its sad. I read on here many examples which are the same as my own, where my high level character would be generating roleplay, plot, and atmosphere in an otherwise barren area. Giving guidance and plot hooks to new characters. Its all great and dandy, but no XP gain.
So what to do:
1. RP more. With actual quality RP. The meme crap tier RP in mist camp should be flushed down the toilet.
2. RP is actually faster XP that dungeoning on the long run. I saw too many in here speaking from a misconception that it is slower. Gather up a trio of players who are responsive, more is always better and get into some business and bonding. If you can start conflict with another group, start conflict. RP and craft is another good option. You will blow levels past those who run dungeon after dungeon.
3. The trouble is many players have a hard time finding quality RP. The server population needs to make use of "looking for roleplay", but I don't know how to cause such a shift. I don't think anyone actually uses it. I forget if that feature displays your location, but if it doesn't, the developers ought to make it do so. First, give your character an ic reason to go one of these high level zones. Find an IC reason to leave your comfy faction in Barovia. Then go and turn your RP flag on. Or bring people with you! I know some players take issue, their character would not fit in Port or Hazlan. How about the others? We have the problem that some of the preferable zones for a character are simply empty such as Blaustein or Har'akir. But if roleplay beacons are lit and players use this feature, they will go there. And hopefully you give an effort in your RP, that you all come back to these locations routinely and form RP bonds that will extend beyond the first meeting.
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*throws all sorts of cents around mainly 2 cents*
Barovia-
Has the rp xp cap worked
yes
should we be happy it worked?
unsure
Mist camp-
Glad it got the overhaul but it is still nowhere near a functional hub.
The Port-
most that know ol dutchy knows ol dutchy has always been vocal about not liking the place.
Doesn't mean it is usefull and good for those that do like an appreciate the place.
suggestion and remarks:
let me start with a remark, yes it is a ongoing joke that after lvl 14 you need to learn HM (high mordentish) cause else you got little to nothing to do in the port, as ooc they try to be as inclusive as possible, but let's face it ic shows a whole different story.
why are people shoved towards other places?
my suggestion would be, vallaki,outskirts, keep them under the rp xp cap, maybe even lower it more.
surrounding regions remove the cap.
that way you divert the high lvls from the gathering place of the lowbies and the hunting grounds of the mpcs and ampcs.
but you also open up or reopen barovia for those that fell in love with the server for what their first experiences where. (which was/is barovia)
by diverting the stream of high lvls that way, they won't mix more then they do now with the lowbies, and it would stop these topics from popping up every so often.
don't forget there are several faction within barovia that are based there.
so you will always get and gain high lvl traffic, i always felt that the playerbase on this issue isn't heard, and that the staff is being very rigid in it's approach to this issue.
no need for it, am sure we can come to a common consensus which pleases both parties.
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*throws all sorts of cents around mainly 2 cents*
Barovia-
Has the rp xp cap worked
yes
should we be happy it worked?
unsure
Mist camp-
Glad it got the overhaul but it is still nowhere near a functional hub.
The Port-
most that know ol dutchy knows ol dutchy has always been vocal about not liking the place.
Doesn't mean it is usefull and good for those that do like an appreciate the place.
suggestion and remarks:
let me start with a remark, yes it is a ongoing joke that after lvl 14 you need to learn HM (high mordentish) cause else you got little to nothing to do in the port, as ooc they try to be as inclusive as possible, but let's face it ic shows a whole different story.
why are people shoved towards other places?
my suggestion would be, vallaki,outskirts, keep them under the rp xp cap, maybe even lower it more.
surrounding regions remove the cap.
that way you divert the high lvls from the gathering place of the lowbies and the hunting grounds of the mpcs and ampcs.
but you also open up or reopen barovia for those that fell in love with the server for what their first experiences where. (which was/is barovia)
by diverting the stream of high lvls that way, they won't mix more then they do now with the lowbies, and it would stop these topics from popping up every so often.
don't forget there are several faction within barovia that are based there.
so you will always get and gain high lvl traffic, i always felt that the playerbase on this issue isn't heard, and that the staff is being very rigid in it's approach to this issue.
no need for it, am sure we can come to a common consensus which pleases both parties.
I like the idea of making that no RP XP bubble smaller. Maybe have it extend to all of those areas surrounding vallaki and the outskirts 2-3 tiles out in any direction maybe? Remove places like Krezk outpost, Kroftburg, Midway Haven and even Berez from the RP XP cap? Could, in theory, remove the option to take the ferry back to Vallaki from any of those places while still allowing it to go out to them for those who wanted to travel quickly in that direction.
As I understand it, everything beyond the mist bank near Castle Ravenloft are already excluded from the RP XP cap. Maybe this would satisfy people?
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I agree most with Rocket even if it seems off topic.
XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.
Overthinking character progression by appealing to the caveman brain that level 20 or even level 15 is required to have fun was a serious oversight. I hope one day it will be reverted. The reality is people are just farming PvP safety but they'll never be satisfied. This is what they are incentivised to do, when they could be RPing about anything else, besides talking every 15 minutes briefly to discuss what buffs they want. If they aren't on VOIP, completely ignoring their environment and players outside their chattersphere...
The server doesn't need a 5 year plan, it doesn't need all these bells and whistles. It needs a lower level cap. Vallaki isn't the only place where 15+ is unnecessary and is complicating matters more than it should. Those who want to have more fun in dungeons too will find that balance will be tighter too.
Ignore the post for being off topic if you want. I'm reposting this precisely because faction RP XP is nothing short of a compromise, and XP itself is not and should never be the main motivator of RP. The reward factor only exists because XP has no place in RP and people overthink it. RP is for RP's sake. RP for XP's sake is not RP, it's playing an MMO with RP sprinkled in where convenient.
None of the areas mentioned will be revived if RP XP comes back, certainly not by a snap of the fingers. They are dead and have to start anew, you can't shock paddle them with RP XP. They died when plots died and players quit out of frustration, either over XP addiction or over feelings of abandonment. Vallaki only holds on by an (RP XP) thread (every few months going nowhere) because it's the conveyor belt all new players fall off of. Some do stay and invest long term. Some come back periodically to stoke the fire. But the full package I was talking about is not there and it'll always be stained by the "high levels get out" mentality until high levels are removed. Not the players of high levels, they've never been the problem. It's the levels themselves, and that is to say nothing of the players who can ruin the atmosphere no matter what level they are, by mistake or on purpose. Take away the high levels who can always rescue them unopposed and you eliminate one of their vectors of infection. All this you may disagree with - you are entitled to your opinion, don't get me wrong - but RP XP wouldn't even be a bandaid against the wound to atmosphere that is having to walk on eggshells or accidentally blow up the monster of the week.
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*throws all sorts of cents around mainly 2 cents*
Barovia-
Has the rp xp cap worked
yes
should we be happy it worked?
unsure
Mist camp-
Glad it got the overhaul but it is still nowhere near a functional hub.
The Port-
most that know ol dutchy knows ol dutchy has always been vocal about not liking the place.
Doesn't mean it is usefull and good for those that do like an appreciate the place.
suggestion and remarks:
let me start with a remark, yes it is a ongoing joke that after lvl 14 you need to learn HM (high mordentish) cause else you got little to nothing to do in the port, as ooc they try to be as inclusive as possible, but let's face it ic shows a whole different story.
why are people shoved towards other places?
my suggestion would be, vallaki,outskirts, keep them under the rp xp cap, maybe even lower it more.
surrounding regions remove the cap.
that way you divert the high lvls from the gathering place of the lowbies and the hunting grounds of the mpcs and ampcs.
but you also open up or reopen barovia for those that fell in love with the server for what their first experiences where. (which was/is barovia)
by diverting the stream of high lvls that way, they won't mix more then they do now with the lowbies, and it would stop these topics from popping up every so often.
don't forget there are several faction within barovia that are based there.
so you will always get and gain high lvl traffic, i always felt that the playerbase on this issue isn't heard, and that the staff is being very rigid in it's approach to this issue.
no need for it, am sure we can come to a common consensus which pleases both parties.
I like the idea of making that no RP XP bubble smaller. Maybe have it extend to all of those areas surrounding vallaki and the outskirts 2-3 tiles out in any direction maybe? Remove places like Krezk outpost, Kroftburg, Midway Haven and even Berez from the RP XP cap? Could, in theory, remove the option to take the ferry back to Vallaki from any of those places while still allowing it to go out to them for those who wanted to travel quickly in that direction.
As I understand it, everything beyond the mist bank near Castle Ravenloft are already excluded from the RP XP cap. Maybe this would satisfy people?
I like this idea, but I think what more then a few folks would like to see if VoB turned into the Barovian "Regular" RP Hub.. and yes, I get this doesn't quite fit in with the lore.. but neither does Perfidus, and frankly foot traffic in VoB is so limited (outside of dungeons) I don't see it hurting to much. Frankly, the RP behavior in VoB if it were a hub should be a bit more controlled, and if it wasn't a DM could easily slap that down with some real threats.
But.. you would need to move some faction bases over there, or at least create some new faction hubs .. ie. Garda, WFK, RV.. throw in a bank..
Again, how about conceding that some people like to RP in Barovia, so why not just cater to that group, the same way Port, or Hazlan are catered to, and provide folks equal oppurtunity to RP and be RPXP rewarded for it, if they dont want their PCs to leave Barovia..
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XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.
This is objectively false, or the change to RP XP in Vallaki would have never been made in the first place.
Overthinking character progression by appealing to the caveman brain that level 20 or even level 15 is required to have fun was a serious oversight.
I don't know where it was ever said that level 15-20 is required to have fun. This thread has a lot of offtopic in it, so let's not add strawman arguments to it.
Overall, I'm of the belief that RPXP should be rewarded uniformly. If that's RPXP is given everywhere at 14+, awesome. If it's that there's no RPXP anywhere at 14+, also awesome. The Faction RPXP suggestion was somewhat of a middleground, but it's clear the only real solution would be an all-or-nothing for 14+, and not haves-and-havenots.
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XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.
This is objectively false, or the change to RP XP in Vallaki would have never been made in the first place.
Overthinking character progression by appealing to the caveman brain that level 20 or even level 15 is required to have fun was a serious oversight.
I don't know where it was ever said that level 15-20 is required to have fun. This thread has a lot of offtopic in it, so let's not add strawman arguments to it.
Overall, I'm of the belief that RPXP should be rewarded uniformly. If that's RPXP is given everywhere at 14+, awesome. If it's that there's no RPXP anywhere at 14+, also awesome. The Faction RPXP suggestion was somewhat of a middleground, but it's clear the only real solution would be an all-or-nothing for 14+, and not haves-and-havenots.
I appreciate the intent of the faction hub suggestion, I know it came from a place trying to find a middle ground, but I think your conclusion is right, it should be fair for all regardless of where you decide to call home.
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XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.
This is objectively false, or the change to RP XP in Vallaki would have never been made in the first place.
Levels amount to combat strength, which is not much of anything when it comes to RP. The numbers getting bigger does not make RP more satisfying and do not make your character more like themselves.
Overthinking character progression by appealing to the caveman brain that level 20 or even level 15 is required to have fun was a serious oversight.
I don't know where it was ever said that level 15-20 is required to have fun. This thread has a lot of offtopic in it, so let's not add strawman arguments to it.
Overall, I'm of the belief that RPXP should be rewarded uniformly. If that's RPXP is given everywhere at 14+, awesome. If it's that there's no RPXP anywhere at 14+, also awesome. The Faction RPXP suggestion was somewhat of a middleground, but it's clear the only real solution would be an all-or-nothing for 14+, and not haves-and-havenots.
That is not a strawman, it's been said before in other threads.
I agree with uniform RP XP but a lower level cap. We shouldn't be asking why Vallaki has no RP XP for 14+, but why 14+ exists at all. It doesn't add anything to Port either, they have nothing to lose by supporting that change.
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I agree most with Rocket even if it seems off topic.
XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.
Overthinking character progression by appealing to the caveman brain that level 20 or even level 15 is required to have fun was a serious oversight. I hope one day it will be reverted. The reality is people are just farming PvP safety but they'll never be satisfied. This is what they are incentivised to do, when they could be RPing about anything else, besides talking every 15 minutes briefly to discuss what buffs they want. If they aren't on VOIP, completely ignoring their environment and players outside their chattersphere...
The server doesn't need a 5 year plan, it doesn't need all these bells and whistles. It needs a lower level cap. Vallaki isn't the only place where 15+ is unnecessary and is complicating matters more than it should. Those who want to have more fun in dungeons too will find that balance will be tighter too.
Ignore the post for being off topic if you want. I'm reposting this precisely because faction RP XP is nothing short of a compromise, and XP itself is not and should never be the main motivator of RP. The reward factor only exists because XP has no place in RP and people overthink it. RP is for RP's sake. RP for XP's sake is not RP, it's playing an MMO with RP sprinkled in where convenient.
None of the areas mentioned will be revived if RP XP comes back, certainly not by a snap of the fingers. They are dead and have to start anew, you can't shock paddle them with RP XP. They died when plots died and players quit out of frustration, either over XP addiction or over feelings of abandonment. Vallaki only holds on by an (RP XP) thread (every few months going nowhere) because it's the conveyor belt all new players fall off of. Some do stay and invest long term. Some come back periodically to stoke the fire. But the full package I was talking about is not there and it'll always be stained by the "high levels get out" mentality until high levels are removed. Not the players of high levels, they've never been the problem. It's the levels themselves, and that is to say nothing of the players who can ruin the atmosphere no matter what level they are, by mistake or on purpose. Take away the high levels who can always rescue them unopposed and you eliminate one of their vectors of infection. All this you may disagree with - you are entitled to your opinion, don't get me wrong - but RP XP wouldn't even be a bandaid against the wound to atmosphere that is having to walk on eggshells or accidentally blow up the monster of the week.
cause you and myself aswell actually do not see rp xp or xp in general as the motivator, many do, for many it is an angle of the game they wish to have.
cause you and i do not view it as such does not mean the others are wrong for wanting it, or to see or feel it as a motivator.
ps: those that like the post i made thnx for seeing potential in this long ongoing issue
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XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.
This is objectively false, or the change to RP XP in Vallaki would have never been made in the first place.
Levels amount to combat strength, which is not much of anything when it comes to RP. The numbers getting bigger does not make RP more satisfying and do not make your character more like themselves.
Levels DO matter in a lot of RP aspects. Roleplaying isn't just sitting somewhere and chatting. Roleplaying could involve going on an investigation where your hide and stealth matters, DM events where you're going to be rolling spot/search, RP that progresses into unlocking a PrC where leveling up represents acquiring your new class that has been a major part of your RP and experiences.
To say levels mean nothing is a gross oversimplification, unless you're just sitting around and chatting.
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I don't think limiting RP XP in certain areas is a bad thing or unfair to players in that area.
I think it gives us as players a reason to think differently. If we desire the RP XP we can choose to groan and complain about why we're not getting it, or we can invent a reason to go elsewhere and get it. Additionally we can think to ourselves, "Why" and go and explore other avenues of RP that we might not have thought to get if everything was business as usual back at home.
The cap on RP XP only seems unfair, but I think the devs and the DM's are on the mark with it. It's helped us players step outside the box a little to go and experience something other than what we might have if we had stayed in the main introductory hub.
This certainly isn't to detract or belittle anyone else's arguments here. It's simply a different perspective. I see RP XP as a bonus, an add on. It's a nice little reward for doing something that I would prefer to do anyways. I've always been of a mind that rewards are exactly that, rewards. They aren't punishments when they're removed.
A question I have for the devs/DM's. Would it be possible to increase, even if only slightly, RP XP gains in areas outside of the currently RP XP Capped area and also remove the cap and reward significantly less RP XP in that same area? This might also satisfy people especially with the recent changes to Blind Drive and RP XP helping to remove that blind drive?
Finally, what if the message telling you your RP XP was reduced was removed and you simply got a message saying that you got RP XP? Ignorance is bliss after all. I don't actually know how much XP it contributes when I get that message, I just feel a little better inside when I see it.
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XP is nothing, hubs are the bane of RP, levels do not equal fun nor do they amount to much of anything.
This is objectively false, or the change to RP XP in Vallaki would have never been made in the first place.
Levels amount to combat strength, which is not much of anything when it comes to RP. The numbers getting bigger does not make RP more satisfying and do not make your character more like themselves.
Overthinking character progression by appealing to the caveman brain that level 20 or even level 15 is required to have fun was a serious oversight.
I don't know where it was ever said that level 15-20 is required to have fun. This thread has a lot of offtopic in it, so let's not add strawman arguments to it.
Overall, I'm of the belief that RPXP should be rewarded uniformly. If that's RPXP is given everywhere at 14+, awesome. If it's that there's no RPXP anywhere at 14+, also awesome. The Faction RPXP suggestion was somewhat of a middleground, but it's clear the only real solution would be an all-or-nothing for 14+, and not haves-and-havenots.
That is not a strawman, it's been said before in other threads.
I agree with uniform RP XP but a lower level cap. We shouldn't be asking why Vallaki has no RP XP for 14+, but why 14+ exists at all. It doesn't add anything to Port either, they have nothing to lose by supporting that change.
At the risk of making myself even more unpopular, it's no particularly huge secret I would be happy with a substantially lower level cap [Something between 10-16, I think.]
However, I don't think there's much call for that, nor any possibility of the team implimenting it.
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I don't think limiting RP XP in certain areas is a bad thing or unfair to players in that area.
I struggle to see how this isn't unfair, personally.
I think it gives us as players a reason to think differently. If we desire the RP XP we can choose to groan and complain about why we're not getting it, or we can invent a reason to go elsewhere and get it.
This sounds like metagaming in a sense, which isn't something we should be doing.
This certainly isn't to detract or belittle anyone else's arguments here. It's simply a different perspective. I see RP XP as a bonus, an add on. It's a nice little reward for doing something that I would prefer to do anyways. I've always been of a mind that rewards are exactly that, rewards. They aren't punishments when they're removed.
Removing something is punitive, though. If RP XP was never rewarded there to begin with, you would have an argument here.
Really, RPXP should be removed from 14+ server-wide, or given server-wide.
As others have posted, I'm also in favor of a lower level cap (12 would be my pick). But that's likely not going to happen.
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Levels amount to combat strength, which is not much of anything when it comes to RP. The numbers getting bigger does not make RP more satisfying and do not make your character more like themselves.
Levels DO matter in a lot of RP aspects. Roleplaying isn't just sitting somewhere and chatting. Roleplaying could involve going on an investigation where your hide and stealth matters, DM events where you're going to be rolling spot/search, RP that progresses into unlocking a PrC where leveling up represents acquiring your new class that has been a major part of your RP and experiences.
To say levels mean nothing is a gross oversimplification, unless you're just sitting around and chatting.
"Roleplaying isn't just sitting somewhere and chatting" is a gross oversimplification of the point I'm trying to make - an actual strawman argument.
14 is more than high enough to progress a character and specialise in whatever role desired.
I'm not asking for a level, symmetrical playing field where no characters are different.
Classes alone provide role differences out of the gates, given their starting kits. Even in a D20 system, starting with 5 in a skill + attribute modifier is a big deal in terms of who can make what rolls.
I like this idea, but I think what more then a few folks would like to see if VoB turned into the Barovian "Regular" RP Hub.. and yes, I get this doesn't quite fit in with the lore.. but neither does Perfidus, and frankly foot traffic in VoB is so limited (outside of dungeons) I don't see it hurting to much. Frankly, the RP behavior in VoB if it were a hub should be a bit more controlled, and if it wasn't a DM could easily slap that down with some real threats.
But.. you would need to move some faction bases over there, or at least create some new faction hubs .. ie. Garda, WFK, RV.. throw in a bank..
Again, how about conceding that some people like to RP in Barovia, so why not just cater to that group, the same way Port, or Hazlan are catered to, and provide folks equal oppurtunity to RP and be RPXP rewarded for it, if they dont want their PCs to leave Barovia..
We are going nowhere if we do not acknowledge:
1) The devs don't want VoB to be a hub (even though it already has all the amenities it needs to be one, including the RP XP).
2) Catering is more apparent in the amount of DM attention and events found in Port. Just look at the event calendar...
3) Dungeons like Perfidus are not hubs; Krofburg, Midway Haven, Berez, etc. have something in common beyond the lack of RP XP - lack of DM attention.
If people were interested, they'd go there despite the lack of RP XP. RP isn't forever, it doesn't exist in a vacuum, it will come and go with player and DM interest.
I see RP XP as a bonus, an add on.
It is just a bonus, it's something that doesn't need to be there for RP to happen. Many players have testified as such.
It is a punishment to take rewards away however. This change was done as a punishment to the whole playerbase for the actions of a few. It now serves as a reminder that high levels can negatively affect RP completely by accident, and should move out of the area. The issue I take with this is that low levels can do the same, but usually through different means. A lower level cap is not a cure-all, but it would enable them less if there were fewer overleveled players to rescue them for every mistake they make.
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To basically sum up my argument on the matter since I don't think we'll agree on the minute details:
1) RP XP should be uniform for levels 14+ (whether it is granted or not)
2) Ideally we'd have a lower-level cap but that's not going to happen
3) VoB being a hub is also not going to happen
I've been level 14+ for a good while now and it hasn't stopped me from RPing, but it does feel like I'm missing out on something by not getting RP XP for the time I'm putting in. It's obviously not make or break, or I just would have stopped playing. But some uniformity would be appreciated.
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2) Catering is more apparent in the amount of DM attention and events found in Port. Just look at the event calendar...
I'm sorry Sardine, but this just isn't true.
The vast, vast majority of events in Port-A-Lucine are hosted by players, for players. They rarely require anything in the way of DM attention and support, and the vast majority of server DMs actively do /not/ get involved in Port-A-Lucine. In my time here, only DM Awarn [Inactive] DM Dread [Inactive] DM Soulbourne [Currently on break] and DM Agony and Indolence have been involved in port at all.
I have tried to run events of a similar nature in Barovia, and the take up and interest in them is /much/ smaller, despite the larger player base. It has nothing to do with DM attention at all, and this sort of statement only contributes to unfounded ooc resentment that port is somehow special or different, and not simply another server map like the rest of the module. If you want more events in Barovia, host them! You don't need permission to post anything in the Calender. The only reason events are not being held is players don't want to do so.
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It's not untrue to say that Port has more events. Whether they're hosted by players or not doesn't matter - the calendar says it all. It also has more DMs interested.
You can refer to my earlier post about how the native Barovian scene is not as well represented compared to the native Dementlieuse scene.
Port doesn't have to be "special" for that to be true, but it is different. Different types of players go to each location for different types of RP. There may be some perceptions built on bias, even resentment, but the themes of Barovia and Dementlieu are very different, and not just because of what players choose to explore ingame.
To basically sum up my argument on the matter since I don't think we'll agree on the minute details:
1) RP XP should be uniform for levels 14+ (whether it is granted or not)
2) Ideally we'd have a lower-level cap but that's not going to happen
3) VoB being a hub is also not going to happen
I've been level 14+ for a good while now and it hasn't stopped me from RPing, but it does feel like I'm missing out on something by not getting RP XP for the time I'm putting in. It's obviously not make or break, or I just would have stopped playing. But some uniformity would be appreciated.
I do agree with the stance you present there, word for word.
The only nitpick I have is with VoB - it's actually a great place to be. It's gotten better lately. I don't know how much more you can improve it. Despite being a ghost town, it provides a lot of useful services. RP could flourish there, but people tend to just go back to Vallaki.
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2) Catering is more apparent in the amount of DM attention and events found in Port. Just look at the event calendar...
I'm sorry Sardine, but this just isn't true.
The vast, vast majority of events in Port-A-Lucine are hosted by players, for players. They rarely require anything in the way of DM attention and support, and the vast majority of server DMs actively do /not/ get involved in Port-A-Lucine. In my time here, only DM Awarn [Inactive] DM Dread [Inactive] DM Soulbourne [Currently on break] and DM Agony and Indolence have been involved in port at all.
I have tried to run events of a similar nature in Barovia, and the take up and interest in them is /much/ smaller, despite the larger player base. It has nothing to do with DM attention at all, and this sort of statement only contributes to unfounded ooc resentment that port is somehow special or different, and not simply another server map like the rest of the module. If you want more events in Barovia, host them! You don't need permission to post anything in the Calendar. The only reason events are not being held is players don't want to do so.
Other then the fact that a player in port can call that his or her home, RP and receive RPXP for it.. is the major issue here. Players in Hazlan and Demen both have that opportunity, but the Marquis domain of the server, is considered a low level playground and therefore players above 14 are forced out if they want to progress.
Forget any arguments about the "purity" of roleplay, and how you don't need XP to have a good time, or just stay 14 forever..
Lets just look at fairness.. it is not fair to that a concept that fits into BV somehow stops at level 14, meanwhile a non combat PC in Demen or Hazlan continues to progress.
If the issue is Vallaki, then create a second Hub for higher levels in Barovia.. I get they don't want VOB (although it was clearly built in such a fashion that it could be) but offering something to these players only seems fair..
I am in a Barovia faction, but my main PC also enjoys exploring so I don't have the issues some do.. I just things is silly and misguided that what is good for the goose is not also good for the gander, and if you play in an area where you get RPXP you should be in favor of this for players who dont get that reward.
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There is no matter of resentment building, it's just a truth, and we're free to explore that here on the forums. It is a truth as a consequence of player interest and also DM interest as things are currently and there's nothing wrong with that.
The long and short of it is, if the server is to see more life in its various corners, it will need more DMs, especially to even remotely attempt to support the sheer wealth of playstyles and players we have today than in the past where peak hours was 30-40 players.
It's said that it's an "unpopular opinion" that having a lower level cap would be welcome but I disagree. It would be my preference as well, but as a developer I have to realize that would be "scrapping" years of work, even if the cap can be reduced suddenly. Higher end feats and spells are the only thing we'd be missing out on, as well as having to revise the multiclass rules to compliment new class spreads. Beyond that point is also a lot of work in making those PrCs and base classes functionable/feel complete if necessary, which is a lot of .2da work. Let's not also forget having to rebalance XP values and rates.
Indeed, this would maybe remedy a lot of the server's "high level" issues of current, and make end game content such as Sithicus or Perfidus much more challenging, but honestly, still very feasible. I would not hold your breath on any of that though, that's just my unbiased look at things as they are.
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My proposed solution for the sudden cap would be to consider if any 15+ class features or feats need to remain in for the sake of balance or fun. Some of them exist to create equity at the highest character levels and don't need to stay. Others can actually change the playstyle of the class when you get them. So those should be choices, not automatically gained.
With the power ceiling lowered, I think more PrCs would become better or at least more popular choices. Some of the best and most popular PrCs right now are only the best and most popular because you can reach level 20 eventually.
I don't see much of a need to make it take longer to level or even tweak dungeon balance to compensate. If it matters to them, players will find ways to complete dungeons with the tools they are given. Level 10 in a month or two isn't that bad, it's the 6+ month grind from 14-20 and the perception that they need those levels to "complete" their character, or be safer in PvP, or solo some dungeon in particular; whatever it is, the motivations change from 14-20. My argument has never been that a character growing into power is bad for RP, but growing out of the setting has been acknowledged by the developers already as a problem - see the RP XP cap.
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Other then the fact that a player in port can call that his or her home, RP and receive RPXP for it.. is the major issue here. Players in Hazlan and Demen both have that opportunity, but the Marquis domain of the server, is considered a low level playground and therefore players above 14 are forced out if they want to progress.
+1
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I dont know the specifics of how RPXP works, but however it might pile up over time, isnt it a negligible amount for people that count their XP pool by the millions? Is that all the difference there is between a 14lvl char in vallaki and a 20lvl in port? Isnt it because the 20lvl in port has munched on aboleths and caliban gang leaders next door while there's nothing of the sort in vallaki?
I understand the principle that most players wouldnt ever leave the nest if the DMs didnt put some kind of system in place to let the players go, not until there is a hard system at char creation to either pick or randomize the landing place out of the Mists, but I fail to understand why the point is so controversial to earn a thread every few months. What am i missing?
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What I think a lot of people are missing is that Dementlieu doesn't need characters at level 14 or higher, same with Hazlan or any other domain. :mrgreen:
So people ask Barovia to be given the same "maximum level" as the other domains, but if you ask me, it's the other domains that must be brought down, we've seen before that power comes down like acid rain from the other domains no matter how infrequent.
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What I think a lot of people are missing is that Dementlieu doesn't need characters at level 14 or higher, same with Hazlan or any other domain. :mrgreen:
So people ask Barovia to be given the same "maximum level" as the other domains, but if you ask me, it's the other domains that must be brought down, we've seen before that power comes down like acid rain from the other domains no matter how infrequent.
no what people want is a place like barovia, the rp and stories and vibe are different in barovia then in the port.
if they had such you wouldnt see this topic raising his head every few months.
the other route would be to tinker with the rp xp caps.
as someone else pointed out, it is an issue cause people find it unfair.
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Well in terms of fairness, I think if everyone's equal playing field was to expect that 14 is where the numbers stop piling on, my wish would be satisfied.
I dunno if a place like Barovia would work. I think this fantasy of ours is gonna collapse if we ask the devs to make another domain for us for a year so that we can run around like rodents and gobble all the content up in a few weeks.
The more squished down the levels are, the more what's already in the server remains relevant, immune to the manipulation of overleveled characters and players dissatisfied with having to pull their punches instead of throw themselves at the RP in all their creative glory like everyone else gets to.
The more spread out the levels are, the more noticeable the "MMO" mindset, endless grinds, and so on.
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Well in terms of fairness, I think if everyone's equal playing field was to expect that 14 is where the numbers stop piling on, my wish would be satisfied.
I dunno if a place like Barovia would work. I think this fantasy of ours is gonna collapse if we ask the devs to make another domain for us for a year so that we can run around like rodents and gobble all the content up in a few weeks.
The more squished down the levels are, the more what's already in the server remains relevant, immune to the manipulation of overleveled characters and players dissatisfied with having to pull their punches instead of throw themselves at the RP in all their creative glory like everyone else gets to.
The more spread out the levels are, the more noticeable the "MMO" mindset, endless grinds, and so on.
barovia is flawed.
it has been said so by the team but it is not something that can be reversed, cause it was the first thing on potm, and they build around it, so they cant mess with the core, and i get that, we all should get that.
i won't deny i have a horse in this race, i run with others the archondum and we got plenty of high lvls in the faction, the elves are also based in barovia, the wayferers same story, racial wise we got nowhere else to go, that's the major flaw in all this.
i always said make darkon, and make that the hub they wanted barovia to be in hindsight, cause experience does matter, and barovia was a succes an a mistake at the same time.
a damn good mistake/succes i might add.
but just viewing it from just what i want does not aid the community, hence why i say let's look for a compremise, there must be something that pleases the majority on both sides.
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Darkon would be amazing.
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Sure it would, but it wouldn't stop all the new players spawning in Vallaki and all the history, the legacy, the autopilot nature of people standing around in the outskirts RP XP or not. And that's after someone spent years making it just for us to discover every secret and crush every dungeon in a few weeks' time.
Barovia isn't as flawed as "Barovia is flawed" loaded statement. Most if not all of the flaws could be walked back until it is lore accurate or very nearly with caveats. Adding a higher level version of Barovia wouldn't work. After you made that post, I am more certain that this fantasy of ours is gonna collapse if we ask the devs to make another domain for us for a year so that we can run around like rodents and gobble all the content up in a few weeks.
My idea of a compromise is a lot different than increasing the average level of the server, and even if Darkon were added, it would be so much better if its significance wasn't "the spooky Barovia-like adventurer's domain for high levels" but rather "it is Darkon."
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no what people want is a place like barovia, the rp and stories and vibe are different in barovia then in the port.
if they had such you wouldnt see this topic raising his head every few months.
the other route would be to tinker with the rp xp caps.
as someone else pointed out, it is an issue cause people find it unfair.
But Port is not Vallaki. Vallaki is the only place which is a high middle age classic fantasy setting, while Port is not. You write Vallaki but it could very well be Baldur's Gate or Karameikos.
Port is the flavoured place, and you need a non standard character and overall approach to the place, and same goes with Har'Akir and Hazlan. You cant go for a vanilla character, nor you can choose whatever class (monks in Hazlan? druids in Har'Akir?), while Barovia allows for anything. So it's quite normal that most characters will remain in either Vallaki or Mist Camp at the farthest. There are no many places a full plated paladin of Thorm can go to (or have any reason to, actually), honestly, nor, as dutchy said, all the demihumans. Also, NCEs are made in Vallaki, so groups, cliques and new factions are born in Vallaki in response to things that happen in Vallaki, and are invested in Vallaki. So there is no way other hubs will be anything else but "the other place"s than Vallaki.
What I find unfair is that there are many character archetypes that dont rely on combat, and they should have in any case access to XP just as like all other classes and types. Even my cleric character, if I had a source of XP as good as killing XP id rather not go and challenge the noapte, since i am a Barovian and a clergyman and i should improve my faith by debating and studying rather than killing random stuff (it's also against my char philosophy). Same goes for other kinds of archetypes. So if anything id empower RPXp for everyone to rival killing XP and give a reasonable alternative to kill stuff.
Then once you get to lvl 14... if Rp is what you want, then you dont really need much more than 14 levels do you? Again, i doubt that any character outside Vallaki has gone from 14 to 20 by chatting in the terraces, and even if they did it took them years and years and if they had the dedication... more power to them i guess?
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Your post Dutchy, comes off as feeling like you want to make Barovia obsolete in favor of fixing the mistakes of the past. I think this is the wrong way to look at it. You said it yourself, that Barovia is flawed but also a long term success. I think if you stop to consider why that is from a design standpoint you may see things differently. Sure, a few things could stand to be shuffled around and refurbished, but that is going to take months if not years of work to reach the developing quality of other areas of the module, and isn't guaranteed to happen.
Instead of even remotely entertaining the idea of scrapping Barovia, we should be entertaining solutions/additions to put in place that will appeal it to a wider array of playstyles and interests. Much like the development team has been finding the time to do over the past few years content-wise, and we are continuing to flesh out higher level content to encompass a character's entire lifespan in Barovia itself. I think comparing Barovia to Darkon is a bit like comparing apples to oranges, sure there are some similarities, but there are a lot of tonal differences, and expecting everyone to uproot if this was ever done thinking the experiences are similar enough is stretching it quite a bit.
It is far from an ideal "starter" domain, and should be more optional for flavor RP, and enjoyment of the differences between countries without being another unused hub if we ever saw it.
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Only skimmed some of this due to lack of time, but -
1. Yes, a proper 'third hub' where various sorts can move on to and mix would be fantastic. If I had the time I'd volunteer to help build it.
2. Not all PCs are a dungeoning adventurer, and if on top of that it would be OOC for them to leave Barvia, they are pretty much denied progression after lvl 14. Port can be a great place for certain type of character and certain type of RP, but by far not all.
I have an idea - I do not know how viable it is on the tech /time investment side, and yet -
If you have not gained any combat-based xp for, say , 1 month of play, RP xp kicks back in, albeit in a reduced form (aka the reduced amount that precedes it stopping altogether at lvl 14).
Apologies for chiming in without reading the entire thread, hopefully something I can soon correct.
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just tagging your name.
that's where we differ, and pobably cause you and i prefer a different setting, to me it comes across you favor the port, i favor more the style of barovia.
nothing wrong with that, people are nuts for coffee and i can't stomach the brew, doesn't mean the brew is bad nor that it is distasteful just cause i dont like it.
the thing is, once ppl hit lvl 14 they are pushed towards the port, as it is the only place with a town, and player and dm activity, but the feel of it is different then barovia.
and as someone else pointed out, why should you get to rp gain xp and gain more lvls and thus grow in skill even as none combat oriented, and someone else not?
@Phantasia:
i do not want to make barovia absolete, wouldn't dare dream of it, am just pointing out there is a clear wanting and needing for a place like barovia, where it is monsters vs ppl.
hence why i am a big fan of getting darkon ingame.
@Sardinetheancestor:
you and i wont just see eye to eye on this, nothing wrong with that, it's good to hear an opinion of some who thinks a complete 180 on this.
i still stand with my suggestion.
lower the rp xp cap in vallaki and outskirts to 12 or something.
excempt faction bases of this rule.
areas beyond vallaki no xp cap.
that way the crowd disperses into other places.
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…
2)
Lets just look at fairness.. it is not fair to that a concept that fits into BV somehow stops at level 14, meanwhile a non combat PC in Demen or Hazlan continues to progress…..
The RPXP cap in Barovia starts at level 12 (not 14).
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2)
Lets just look at fairness.. it is not fair to that a concept that fits into BV somehow stops at level 14, meanwhile a non combat PC in Demen or Hazlan continues to progress…..
The RPXP cap in Barovia starts at level 12 (not 14).
The cap is 14, but you begin getting diminished RP XP at 12.
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just tagging your name.
that's where we differ, and pobably cause you and i prefer a different setting, to me it comes across you favor the port, i favor more the style of barovia.
nothing wrong with that, people are nuts for coffee and i can't stomach the brew, doesn't mean the brew is bad nor that it is distasteful just cause i dont like it.
the thing is, once ppl hit lvl 14 they are pushed towards the port, as it is the only place with a town, and player and dm activity, but the feel of it is different then barovia.
and as someone else pointed out, why should you get to rp gain xp and gain more lvls and thus grow in skill even as none combat oriented, and someone else not?
Well, you are wrong because both my char are/were Vallaki based, and I am not that skilled yet to imagining any other character outside the vanilla D&D people... I struggled very much with my previous character when he hit lvl 14, and decided to pass some time with the enchantment routines, then I found the Easy Way Out and i took that bus :lol: besides, I have nothing to say against what you wrote, I do agree with everything you posted. The point where we differ tho, is thinking improving beyond lvl14 is a problem while RPing. If there is a huge difference in Rp if you are lvl2 or 10, the difference between 14 and 20 is not that great, RP wise. I mean a lvl 2 character is inexperienced of life and the world around themselves and buying rations is a conscious choice money-wise, a lvl10 already knows much of who's who and what's what, can take the road to tser pool and has already equipment and gear for something shy a hundred thousand gold on them.
Here I trust the devs and DMs when they say that the rule of the RP xp is working as intended, by moving high level people around. Short of having every domain as a landing point with lvl 1-20 dungeons and monsters roaming, and hammering down on Barovian specificity as much as port and Hazlan do, this is the best outcome. If you are comfortable in Vallaki is because over time the Barovian welcoming customs have been tweaked and twisted and trimmed and cut down considerably. Maybe if they were still in place people would move more easily around, but there is value in having many players in one place, this makes things happen.
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2)
Lets just look at fairness.. it is not fair to that a concept that fits into BV somehow stops at level 14, meanwhile a non combat PC in Demen or Hazlan continues to progress…..
The RPXP cap in Barovia starts at level 12 (not 14).
The cap is 14, but you begin getting diminished RP XP at 12.
Very true. I meant, the effects that we are discussing start at level 12, and it makes RP less awarding xp-wise then in other areas.
I am not for or against to be clear. I haven't really decided. Just reading and finding it interesting.
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Living in Barovia past a certain level entails divorcing the concept of advancement from character level. This works out much better for RP oriented players than action oriented players.
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Living in Barovia past a certain level entails divorcing the concept of advancement from character level. This works out much better for RP oriented players than action oriented players.
Excellent, we should expect the same from Port players too then. There is nothing unique about Barovia that this limitation need be applied to it specifically.
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Living in Barovia past a certain level entails divorcing the concept of advancement from character level. This works out much better for RP oriented players than action oriented players.
Excellent, we should expect the same from Port players too then. There is nothing unique about Barovia that this limitation need be applied to it specifically.
What is unique about Barovia is that it has been specifically designed by the Devolopment team to be a hub for lower level characters, not for higher level ones. The rest of the server, which the RPXP Cap does not apply to, of which Dementlieu is only a small part, has been specifically designed for higher level play.
You are welcome to debate the merits of that choice, but the reasoning has been made clear several times in this thread and elsewhere as to why the cap exists.
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We shouldn't make this an "us versus them" issue, however it cannot be ignored that this distinction may cause such sentiment to develop.
But there are many factions and players in Barovia who do not wish to leave Barovia, especially since the only reliably populated alternate domains are Port and the Mist Camp. RP can pop up anywhere, such as in Hazlan for instance - but it is fleeting and often focused on an even more specific group which may keep most players away. That's fine. But not everyone wants to move away from where they are, especially if they are in a faction which can't move or if it were to move, goes to somewhere not as conducive to their style of roleplay.
So, again, I stress for a nice equal and equitable solution which is outlined in my previous posts.
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There's probably merit to the idea of some great "relevelling" of the server, but that proposal amounts to a lot of work, and it's probably too ambitious a project to roll out in one big bang.
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We shouldn't make this an "us versus them" issue, however it cannot be ignored that this distinction may cause such sentiment to develop.
But there are many factions and players in Barovia who do not wish to leave Barovia, especially since the only reliably populated alternate domains are Port and the Mist Camp. RP can pop up anywhere, such as in Hazlan for instance - but it is fleeting and often focused on an even more specific group which may keep most players away. That's fine. But not everyone wants to move away from where they are, especially if they are in a faction which can't move or if it were to move, goes to somewhere not as conducive to their style of roleplay.
So, again, I stress for a nice equal and equitable solution which is outlined in my previous posts.
This +1
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We shouldn't make this an "us versus them" issue, however it cannot be ignored that this distinction may cause such sentiment to develop.
But there are many factions and players in Barovia who do not wish to leave Barovia, especially since the only reliably populated alternate domains are Port and the Mist Camp. RP can pop up anywhere, such as in Hazlan for instance - but it is fleeting and often focused on an even more specific group which may keep most players away. That's fine. But not everyone wants to move away from where they are, especially if they are in a faction which can't move or if it were to move, goes to somewhere not as conducive to their style of roleplay.
So, again, I stress for a nice equal and equitable solution which is outlined in my previous posts.
Agreed.
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Agreed with above sentiment that Dementlieu should not be above the RP XP cap if Barovia isn't.
As stated in other posts, this region needs RP XP to entice people the least, because it has the full package with regular DM activity, regular events, some recent additions by developers that players have taken advantage of to host events with, and a huge amount of people invested in its equivalent of faction play, where the policy is fairly open doors, especially considering you can invite your friends to play as a noble in your character's house, even if they don't apply. All it needed was momentum and it has that now. Port may well be the most modernised area on the server or at least on the way to being that, though I don't know the extent of the updates in Hazlan yet.
RP XP is something you'd entice people to RP in places where there is no other reason. No amenities, no events, DMs rarely interested.
The existence of one or two dungeons for higher levels in Port does not at all justify a higher RP XP cap, nor does the RP atmosphere call for higher levels to be so common that it feels like the high magic throne of the world. These characters can hold back all their magical might and superhuman strength and pretend to be Normal all they want, but the knowledge that they can call on it freely at any time makes it mechanically very high magic feeling from a gameplay point of view, even if the vast majority of the city's residents live in harsh conditions. There is a narrative dissonance factor when the high level part of the Port deal is just tacked on.
I don't see RP quality in Port taking a nose dive when the level cap changes to 14, nor do I see RP prospects becoming fewer. Do you? If anything, I see more potential within the 2-14 gap with the 15+ victory laps no longer interfering.
@Phantasia:
i do not want to make barovia absolete, wouldn't dare dream of it, am just pointing out there is a clear wanting and needing for a place like barovia, where it is monsters vs ppl.
hence why i am a big fan of getting darkon ingame.
@Sardinetheancestor:
you and i wont just see eye to eye on this, nothing wrong with that, it's good to hear an opinion of some who thinks a complete 180 on this.
i still stand with my suggestion.
lower the rp xp cap in vallaki and outskirts to 12 or something.
excempt faction bases of this rule.
areas beyond vallaki no xp cap.
that way the crowd disperses into other places.
Keeping in your tag to Phantasia for reference -
What, to you, makes Darkon as a region meant to be a higher level "monsters versus people" preferable to lowering the level cap, keeping Barovia closer to relevant for all levels, with the door open to adding more higher level threats in Barovia and potentially seeing Darkon added if there is still a desire for an alternative as far as domains heavy on the "monster versus man" format?
Dispersing the crowd is as easy as rewarding all areas of the server equally for their RP and letting them go where they please. We already see that with many people choosing to stay in the no-RPXP area despite not gaining any. RP will survive on its own merit when players are not tasked with endless chores to empower their characters for the expected superhero vs. supervillain PvP endgame that usually looks more like one side stomping the other by complete accident, but with an extra zero added onto the damage total. By lowering the level cap, you reduce the chores and increase the focus on RP. Progression can always be made regardless of the yellow text in the combat log saying so. It should be equal, all or none, everywhere.
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Having a cap on Vallaki hampers characters who are native to that locale. If one wants to play a Barovian or Gundarakite and primarily RPs because adventuring is viewed as abnormal to most of them, they will have a hard time progressing above level 14.
Sure, they could just leave and move to the Mist Camp or Port, but the question is why? Why would someone who has lived in Barovia all their life have to make an excuse to leave because OOC RP XP. It makes no sense and is just silly. Sure, one could OOC say "suck it up and move" or "deal with it," but that might not be in line for the character. And that, in my opinion, is one of the flaws: forcing something IC because of OOC. After all, bringing OOC stuff into IC is frowned upon.
On the other hand, Port players, who may have characters who have lived in that region all of their lives, can continue to get RP XP up until 20. They run into zero OOC RP XP issues. They don't have to make an IC excuse to fix an OOC issue.
By hampering RP XP in Vallaki, you also hamper native Barovian/Gundarakite RP. Full stop.
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Having a cap on Vallaki hampers characters who are native to that locale. If one wants to play a Barovian or Gundarakite and primarily RPs because adventuring is viewed as abnormal to most of them, they will have a hard time progressing above level 14.
Sure, they could just leave and move to the Mist Camp or Port, but the question is why? Why would someone who has lived in Barovia all their life have to make an excuse to leave because OOC RP XP. It makes no sense and is just silly. Sure, one could OOC say "suck it up and move" or "deal with it," but that might not be in line for the character. And that, in my opinion, is one of the flaws: forcing something IC because of OOC. After all, bringing OOC stuff into IC is frowned upon.
On the other hand, Port players, who may have characters who have lived in that region all of their lives, can continue to get RP XP up until 20. They run into zero OOC RP XP issues. They don't have to make an IC excuse to fix an OOC issue.
By hampering RP XP in Vallaki, you also hamper native Barovian/Gundarakite RP. Full stop.
+1
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A greater obstacle to roleplay in Barovia is the possibility of outleveling the setting entirely by going past those levels. The balance of things is terribly upset by the option alone, and DMs have come out to say they struggle to make it fair for low levels when everything must be balanced around the highest level characters, even though not everyone has the time to grind up to 20, even though not every high level character is trying to take center stage.
Capping characters everywhere at 14 and reserving 15+ for MPCs is a better approach to the whole problem. Not just through RP XP but ending combat XP at 14 as well. Then everyone can get to max level through RP XP no matter where they choose to do it. This is much more equal than having the power ceiling so high that only characters who exist for years (or who are greatly committed to spending time grinding) can reach it. It is also much more equal than having a stigma surround high levels because the potential is there to outlevel a domain at all. Putting the focus back on RP by defeating the grind, rather than blaming the grinders simply partaking in what's fair & available, is the most equal solution of all.
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the server will never be reduced in lvls, so you can let that idea fly.
focus on what could be possible instead.
that said the darkon idea.
darkon in general has the same vibe as barovia, might be a taste thing but it is so at least to me.
barovia wasn't meant to be anything, it was created, the project that is POTM is a hobby that got out of hand, (thank moradin it did) they never planned this far ahead.
the port got made it took years (ask herkles) be for ppl to actually stick around there, after the port got made and har akir and the mist camp they should have stop and rebuild barovia as they intended for the long vision. (if that was still possible) but if's and shoulds doesn't help us.
barovia or no vallaki is broken, it will always get high lvls there due to the factions serounding the area, xp cap no xp cap it won't change.
Darkon might fill that void, it might be the hub where factions can move too, as i said once be for i have a horse in this race, if the dev team told me, dutchy you big ol pain in the ass, grab your fat bearded lil buddies from now on you can havea faction base in the darkon mountain with the dwarves there, the whole faction would move in an instant.
i doubt the kinship and the elves are much differnt in that regard, they would move if they had better places/options.
but for the dwarves and elves in this case its a racial anchor we are stuck with we lack the option we don't get to choose.
ugh beginning to just rant and out frustrations.
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In reading your mention that Port took years to get active, I have discovered that you did not read my post.
I really see no credibility to Darkon being implemented before a reduced level cap.
The two ideas are, at best, equally unlikely to ever occur. I'm not going to play "It's Easier" olympics with another nondeveloper though. Neither of us do the work, so neither of us get to say how likely it is. But adding an entire domain based on mights and maybes isn't the strongest pitch I've ever heard.
Darkon definitely doesn't have the same vibe as Barovia just because PotM's Barovia has slices of Darkon and several other domains.
Barovia being "broken" or "not working" or "getting out of hand" is because of external factors primarily, but with a few internal factors. All of which can be changed. With relevance to the level cap, it's certain that those changes would be taken well if a native scene was allowed to flourish. And the native scene will flourish when level 20s can't come and kick over every sandcastle that gets built - whether they came from other domains or patiently grinded the domestic 14+ dungeons.
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I don't want to be that guy, but the discussion feels like it's getting a little off-course from the original topic. As several people have pointed out, the extreme options of adding a new domain/hub or capping the entire server at level 14 would require a lot of work and don't seem likely to happen soon.
What does that leave? Attempts and proposals at compromising, like the OP's idea of experience in faction bases. There's some real merit in it, as several people have said (especially for native characters who have no real reason to leave Barovia); however, as others have pointed out, implementing it would take a fair deal of work too. It would also need to hammering out to make it equitable for the general playerbase (i.e., discourage factions from becoming more insular by camping in their bases to RP because they can get XP there instead of interacting with the larger server population).
If that isn't practical, what does that leave? Straightforward, more easily implemented options like abolishing the RP XP cap altogether? There's merit for and against that too, as has been said several times above.
But if that isn't practical, what's left? Are there any options, or--as thought-provoking as this discussion is (and I mean that with total sincerity)--are we just swinging in the dark? Are there other compromises? If they exist, are they fair and practical?
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On another note, at the risk of derailing the thread, I'd like to kindly challenge a few mischaracterizations as the discussion continues. These are:
1. That nothing happens in Barovia or there's no "native scene."
2. That a grind is required to bypass level 14.
3. That characters higher than 14 are taking a victory lap.
To 1 - I'm not sure where this is coming from. This weekend alone, there were a handful of events run by DMs Macabre and Stygian Witch in Barovia. DM Brimstone has also been running several plots recently, although they've been largely behind the scenes. DM Strigoi (and perhaps a few others; sorry if I'm leaving any out) "spookified" Barovia for Halloween. On any given day, you might have the Garda, the Kelemvorites, the Crows, the Helmites, the Christians, the Morninglordians, the Ezrites, Degannwy, the Archondum, and other groups doing their thing. There was a book club event today and a sermon on the Divinity of Mankind. A tailor's shop opened this week. The garda hosted a funeral last weekend. The Nevermore Night festival is upcoming. The Ezrites had a recent sermon in Vallaki, the Christians have been holding semimonthly scripture readings, and the Crows have staged several patrols. There are multiple (A)MPCs currently bopping around Vallaki and its surrounding territory, all of whom have created some fantastic scenes and had real consequences and effects on characters. I'm sure I'm missing more.
Does Barovia have the exact "native scene" or flavor it has in PnP? No, and I don't expect it ever will. Trying to achieve that ambiance in a computer game with 80+ players on at any given time is impractical; that volume alone makes it impossible to capture and convey the same feelings of helplessness, isolation, and desperation that exist in PnP Barovia. But is there a native scene? Yes; the garda, especially, were on the ball these past few weeks. And do things happen in Barovia? Yes. Unequivocally.
However, at times it appears like things aren't happening at Barovia, even if they are under the surface. Barovia doesn't have the same unifying RP hooks that Port has (e.g., the university, the various restaurants and cafés, the gendarmerie, the nobles, the underworld). The Port hooks are densely clustered in location and are more or less open to any character who wants to get involved in them. It's easier for them to be connected or overlap. Case in point, even the recent underworld scene in Port crossed into a story with the gendarmerie. Barovia doesn't have that. The massive list of groups above all have very different goals, which sometimes leads them to RP much farther apart (both in location and in ethos) than the groups in Port do. Sure, the groups in Port differ, but they're all operating on the same playground, so to speak. Things do indeed happen in Barovia, and there is DM involvement.
To 2 - The speed at which you bypass 14 is a matter of taste. Some will sprint toward it. Some will marathon it. You can hit it in a couple of months if you rush it, or--speaking from experience--you can still comfortably hit it in about a year if most of your play is RP and not adventuring. A grind isn't required; you'll hit it either way, and honestly, compared to the long periods over which many of the stories on this server take to unfold (even [A]MPC arcs can take half a year), a year passes a lot faster than expected.
To 3 - If we're talking in terms of characterization, this feels a little like a sweeping and unfair generalization. I've seen many disciplined characters over level 14 who do a great job of generating and facilitating RP for lower-level characters, inviting others into their plots and factions, and trying not to step on toes. Some characters over level 14 do peacock. Some don't. Let's not put them all in one basket.
On the other hand, if we're talking in terms of mechanics, yes, with some exceptions of high-level dungeons, there isn't a lot on the server that poses a mechanical challenge to groups of characters over level 14. This could be considered a mechanical "victory lap," if you will. Having said that, if you're running these dungeons with other characters of similar level and are away from lower-level characters, is it really a victory lap, or are you just playing the content that was designed for you?
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I am quite certain it is my arguments you are mischaracterising, but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, assuming you might have misread or misunderstood what I said.
At no point did I say nothing happens in Barovia or that there is no native scene. I said Port has more frequent events and DMs are more active there and that the clustered nature of the domain is a boon.
I never said that a grind is required to level up past 14. I said that getting to 20 takes a long time for the amount of people who consider it an end goal that has value enough that it should be chased, and that the levels between 15-20 are superfluous.
Nor did I say characters higher than 14 are taking a victory lap. I have said that those levels, in the context of many areas on the server, are too high, and require players to rein themselves in, or in other words, shrink themselves down to fit into places they've outgrown.
You've agreed with me on several points in your post, there's no reason to try and paint what I've said as negative, untrue, or denigrating to players who RP in Barovia when I've been arguing on your side since the beginning.
I respect the desire to compromise but I don't see the value in this particular compromise. I'm looking for a solution that gives all or nothing to everyone involved so this debate can finally be over, but more than anything I want a lower level cap so more people don't accidentally climb over that level 14 threshold and find they have to make a choice because of OOC pressures more than IC ones.
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I am quite certain it is my arguments you are mischaracterising, but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt, assuming you might have misread or misunderstood what I said.
**SNIP**
I was mainly speaking about your points, yes--and it looks like I misunderstood them. Sorry for the confusion. I definitely didn't mean to misconstrue your words or attack you, and I appreciate you clarifying.
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Well, out of the misunderstanding we have an agreement and a clarification (from the detailed post you made) for anyone who might have misunderstood the tone of my post. No harm, no foul. :mrgreen:
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Wait, the point of taking the RPXP away from char beyond a certain point is because they cant already take any kill Xp in vallaki, unless they start farming alpha werewolves. Since that would hte the only source of Xp theyd get in Vallaki, the DM took that away too.
So saying "Take RPXP away from everybody else" argument makes no sense.
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Living in Barovia past a certain level entails divorcing the concept of advancement from character level. This works out much better for RP oriented players than action oriented players.
Excellent, we should expect the same from Port players too then. There is nothing unique about Barovia that this limitation need be applied to it specifically.
What is unique about Barovia is that it has been specifically designed by the Devolopment team to be a hub for lower level characters, not for higher level ones. The rest of the server, which the RPXP Cap does not apply to, of which Dementlieu is only a small part, has been specifically designed for higher level play.
You are welcome to debate the merits of that choice, but the reasoning has been made clear several times in this thread and elsewhere as to why the cap exists.
To your first point - and yet higher levels still play there …
To your second point - WalMart refused to offer organic options for a long time as well. Amazing how continued, repeated requests from the public changed that.
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Wait, the point of taking the RPXP away from char beyond a certain point is because they cant already take any kill Xp in vallaki, unless they start farming alpha werewolves. Since that would hte the only source of Xp theyd get in Vallaki, the DM took that away too.
So saying "Take RPXP away from everybody else" argument makes no sense.
The idea that RPXP exists in one place but not another makes no sense. It is very specifically named roleplay experience, and the presence of what is or is not around the general area has no reason to impact RPXP.
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The idea that RPXP exists in one place but not another makes no sense. It is very specifically named roleplay experience, and the presence of what is or is not around the general area has no reason to impact RPXP.
... an area that has purposely designed and allocated to low level characters.
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To your first point - and yet higher levels still play there …
To your second point - WalMart refused to offer organic options for a long time as well. Amazing how continued, repeated requests from the public changed that.
If we didn't want any high levels at all, we'd simply level gate the zone, something that's been discussed but rejected by the team. Instead we use a carrot and stick approach to it, and it has worked very well. The average level is about 7 levels lower in Western Barovia than in the rest of the module. We introduced the high/low level split in 2011, and the RP XP changes in 2014. The average level difference is much higher with the current system than it was in those three years. Prior to 2011, we didn't have high/low level regions and the outskirts looked very much like the current Mist Camp, with all the problems people complain about in the Mist Camp, since bored high levels hung around there.
As for Walmart, the decision was most likely taken for financial reasons rather than altruistic ones. Players are neither clients nor consumers, so it's not a very good analogy.
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To your first point - and yet higher levels still play there …
To your second point - WalMart refused to offer organic options for a long time as well. Amazing how continued, repeated requests from the public changed that.
If we didn't want any high levels at all, we'd simply level gate the zone, something that's been discussed but rejected by the team. Instead we use a carrot and stick approach to it, and it has worked very well. The average level is about 7 levels lower in Western Barovia than in the rest of the module.
Have you considered that the carrot is all the loot and dungeon XP you can get by dungeoning out of the Mist Camp?
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To your first point - and yet higher levels still play there …
To your second point - WalMart refused to offer organic options for a long time as well. Amazing how continued, repeated requests from the public changed that.
If we didn't want any high levels at all, we'd simply level gate the zone, something that's been discussed but rejected by the team. Instead we use a carrot and stick approach to it, and it has worked very well. The average level is about 7 levels lower in Western Barovia than in the rest of the module. We introduced the high/low level split in 2011, and the RP XP changes in 2014. The average level difference is much higher with the current system than it was in those three years. Prior to 2011, we didn't have high/low level regions and the outskirts looked very much like the current Mist Camp, with all the problems people complain about in the Mist Camp, since bored high levels hung around there.
As for Walmart, the decision was most likely taken for financial reasons rather than altruistic ones. Players are neither clients nor consumers, so it's not a very good analogy.
Any mechanics involved in the western Barovia rpxp cap are, I’m sure sound. My only issue is that for those PCs who want “Barovian” themed rp - progression stops for them.
Why you guys are opposed to Barovian Village being the rp hub for higher levels is lost on me. Sure I get the lore, but there are many variances and tweaks done to the server in order for the setting to work as a PW.
As for the analogy, I should have expanded on that - they began offering organic food and made more money, and had happier customers because of that - everyone wins. While this certainly isn’t a for profit business, it doesn’t hurt to listen if there is consensus on an issue - especially if a lot people think it would benefit the core of a “rp” server.
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The idea that RPXP exists in one place but not another makes no sense. It is very specifically named roleplay experience, and the presence of what is or is not around the general area has no reason to impact RPXP.
... an area that has purposely designed and allocated to low level characters.
I think you're missing the point that has been explained regarding design and practice.
Prior to 2011, we didn't have high/low level regions and the outskirts looked very much like the current Mist Camp, with all the problems people complain about in the Mist Camp, since bored high levels hung around there.
Reviving RP XP in some fashion for players who prefer the Barovia themes likely wouldn't draw people who use the Mist Camp as their dungeon hub back to Barovia, so I do not envision we'd see the Outskirts turn into the Mist Camp.
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It's difficult to trace so many opinions listed prior in this topic, but I am the opinion that enabling full rp xp progression within factions is a good idea.
Yes, it would require careful planning and consideration what will be considered a base (in some cases a faction can have several buildings/area/spots of interest) and what can be done for player-created factions (I assume it'll be possible to enable rp xp inside of a rental). Guess that's all from my side.