When the herbalism structure was overhauled and expanded with new herbs, the weight of the craft doubled. My expectation is that this was a side-effect and not an intentional design choice for the craft. Regardless of how we got here however, my suggestion is that it be reviewed and modified.
The acknowledgement that not all weights make sense isn't (to me) a reason to say that suggestions for change should be discounted.
At 20 pounds, I would also not dismiss this as an insignificant source of encumbrance. I do use all of the tools listed in the posts (Storing every full bag as a weightless claim and using 60% magical bags). The herb system is up to nearly 100 herbs now though, and to be able to keep them sorted as you're gathering means 50 pounds of Herbalist Bags alone (30, if you use 60%magic bags). (Note that I personally only have a 20lb burden rather than 30, as some herbs are quite rare).
Other methods of lowering weight (brew more often, for example) are often not feasible because herbs have to be collected over many regions and seasons. This is not a situation caused by hoarding.
I believe it's not illogical for the small packed bags to be lighter than a Vaasi satchel, and that the change would be a nice convenience for players without significantly changing the dynamic of choice around what you invest your weight resources in. Even with this change, the herbs themselves still have a significant amount of weight.
When the herbalism structure was overhauled and expanded with new herbs, the weight of the craft doubled. My expectation is that this was a side-effect and not an intentional design choice for the craft. Regardless of how we got here however, my suggestion is that it be reviewed and modified.
The acknowledgement that not all weights make sense isn't (to me) a reason to say that suggestions for change should be discounted.
At 20 pounds, I would also not dismiss this as an insignificant source of encumbrance. I do use all of the tools listed in the posts (Storing every full bag as a weightless claim and using 60% magical bags). The herb system is up to nearly 100 herbs now though, and to be able to keep them sorted as you're gathering means 50 pounds of Herbalist Bags alone (30, if you use 60%magic bags). (Note that I personally only have a 20lb burden rather than 30, as some herbs are quite rare).
Other methods of lowering weight (brew more often, for example) are often not feasible because herbs have to be collected over many regions and seasons. This is not a situation caused by hoarding.
I believe it's not illogical for the small packed bags to be lighter than a Vaasi satchel, and that the change would be a nice convenience for players without significantly changing the dynamic of choice around what you invest your weight resources in. Even with this change, the herbs themselves still have a significant amount of weight.
When the herbalism structure was overhauled and expanded with new herbs, the weight of the craft doubled. My expectation is that this was a side-effect and not an intentional design choice for the craft. Regardless of how we got here however, my suggestion is that it be reviewed and modified.
The acknowledgement that not all weights make sense isn't (to me) a reason to say that suggestions for change should be discounted.
At 20 pounds, I would also not dismiss this as an insignificant source of encumbrance. I do use all of the tools listed in the posts (Storing every full bag as a weightless claim and using 60% magical bags). The herb system is up to nearly 100 herbs now though, and to be able to keep them sorted as you're gathering means 50 pounds of Herbalist Bags alone (30, if you use 60%magic bags). (Note that I personally only have a 20lb burden rather than 30, as some herbs are quite rare).
Other methods of lowering weight (brew more often, for example) are often not feasible because herbs have to be collected over many regions and seasons. This is not a situation caused by hoarding.
I believe it's not illogical for the small packed bags to be lighter than a Vaasi satchel, and that the change would be a nice convenience for players without significantly changing the dynamic of choice around what you invest your weight resources in. Even with this change, the herbs themselves still have a significant amount of weight.
Actually as the one responsible for said overhaul, I totally counted on this effect. Your premise implies that you absolutely have to carry all types of herbs on your character, but you don't. It is only by choice that you do so instead of focusing on certain herbs/potions. It is a perfectly valid choice for you to make, but it is in turn quite alright that there be consequences to that choice. That consequence is that you have to deal with the weight increase with the more bags you use and the more herbs you collect.
You have to see this through a dev's lense too. It is a good thing if a player has to leave herbs behind because of strength/weight management issues. Those herbs will be picked by another player and a greater amount of player will have the opportunity to craft. This has the added value of (very slightly) slow down the progression on our easiest craft to master, and that too I see as a very good thing.
My latest update by the way precisely aimed at giving options to the higher level players NOT to pick all low level herbs. Now, nothing stops you from doing so anyway, but I absolutely believe the herbalism bags are totally fair considering the inventory management advantage they confer.
A herbalist aiming to sell the potions they brew will want to have all kinds of herbs in order to brew all kinds of potions desired. And while they might not pick them themselves, giving your second point merit, they will at the very least buy them from lower level folks and will have to carry them around regardless. I, for one, would welcome a decrease in herb pouch weight for that reason.
Slowing down the craft makes things more grindy and contributes to hoarding because it fuels player frustration.
Also, no one is going to leave herbs behind, they'll chug a strength potion and continue hasting around the map.
The dev's lens should be "How would I want it to work if I played a herbalist? What's efficient for the server, engaging for the player, and pro-roleplay?"
I don't see where that lines up with keeping people hoovering up herbs for the longest possible amount of time and making inventory management even more of a time sink.
I fail to see how the current herbalism bags weight prevent to do any of the things you say. People simply ought to invest in strength if they wish to carry everything easily. The real issue is there. Choices and consequences. Live by your built.That will only turn people off professions altogether. I'm already forced to forego the ones demanding a higher carry capacity, because I just cannot meet it. If every single crafter out there is required to have high strength, then people will begin rolling no-RP-just-crafting characters (which is already happening), just to have the luxury of overloading them, something I can't imagine being on par with the server's mentality. At the end of the day, the crafting system is supposed to enhance a character's IC life by providing a profession they can eventually master and a realistic way for them to make a living. That whole notion is negated when characters are created with 20 strength for the sole purpose of being able to carry all the raw materials, or when certain professions are barred to certain characters for being unable to do so.
That will only turn people off professions altogether. I'm already forced to forego the ones demanding a higher carry capacity, because I just cannot meet it. If every single crafter out there is required to have high strength, then people will begin rolling no-RP-just-crafting characters (which is already happening), just to have the luxury of overloading them, something I can't imagine being on par with the server's mentality. At the end of the day, the crafting system is supposed to enhance a character's IC life by providing a profession they can eventually master and a realistic way for them to make a living. That whole notion is negated when characters are created with 20 strength for the sole purpose of being able to carry all the raw materials, or when certain professions are barred to certain characters for being unable to do so.
Common guys. Don't you see how absurd the claim that you need high strength to be an herbalist is? The staggering amount of players practicing herbalism clearly denotes there is no issue at all to be addressed.
You need high strength only to be able to carry ludicrous amount of items on you easily. Something the game already makes extremely easy to do. Even a 10 strength score is more then enough to do very well carrying herbs and be a successful herbalist. I did it often enough to know that it isn't an issue at all. Nothing will convince me otherwise.
For a long time we didn't even had them and people thrived nonetheless. We added the bags to help you manage inventories and make it convenient. They are excellent at what they do for only a tiny weight cost. 20 herbalism bags is just 10 pounds, and behold, you can drop that down further to 4 just by carrying them in a magic bag purchasable through your friendly neighborhood Red Vardo, and even to 0 by storing your bags when they are full and that you do not wish to use them right away. So no... this isn't a quality of life request at all, you already have it all to make your life easy.
This is a raw participation metric, it doesn't reflect enjoyment or what their strength ratings are, it reflects how many people are doing it. They do it out of necessity, the system does not necessarily need to be tedious.
By saying "did," you verify that your experience took place in the past. Things have changed since you retired your crafter. Players of current herbalist characters have called your card, but you aren't carrying it anymore, and at this point you are no longer addressing their concerns or responding to their claims:
-Wing said this: "the consequence of the change is only in how the herbs are going to be managed in my inventory, not in how many will be carried" which is a pretty clear indicator to me that this change isn't going to lead to more hoarding or more herbs carried at all, just less tedium in inventory management.
I'm managing ridiculously heavy equipment alongside herbs just fine. Didnt start the game with more than 15 strength.Now say that again with 9, 10 or 11 strength, because there are such class builds out there.
I mean, petty comment retorts are fine in all to undermine the entire context of my post but I explained the logistics, a usable solution, and multiple alternatives. I'm sure 83lbs lets you carry as many 0.0lb items you want. I'm done trying to be constructive.No pettiness was intended and I apologize if it came off that way. You do, however, begin your post with 15 strength as your preface, which is why I focused on that aspect alone.
undermine the entire context of my post
I'd like to just point out that -Wing's suggestion was not posted because of the character's strength. I think that in general, on both sides, a little context is missing here.
That said, I like this idea, I'm gonna cross post it. It'd be a good gold sink for convenience's sake, the same as magic bags.
the consequence of the change is only in how the herbs are going to be managed in my inventory, not in how many will be carried. I don't see this as a conversation about philosophical pillars of choice and consequence, simply a minor quality of life / organization detail.
the consequence of the change is only in how the herbs are going to be managed in my inventory, not in how many will be carried. I don't see this as a conversation about philosophical pillars of choice and consequence, simply a minor quality of life / organization detail.
So I play a herbist. My pc has a low strength, and during spring and fall seasons I often have to cast bulls to be able to run. Even if the weight of bags decreased, Nothing would change. I will still gather as many herbs as possible. All a suggested change would do, is make traveling to Port each day to store the full bags maybe every other day.
Personally, I'd rather see the sack hold 100 herbs. That way rather than storing 5 full sacks at the bank, it would just be 1. Instead of having the 28 different herb bags my pc is currently gathering, and the 60 stored bags of herbs to brew later, it would be the 28 active bags, and 5-10 stored bags. I assume that players logging in with full inventories tends to add to lag. I believe this would help alleviate that.