Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist

Public (OOC) => Setting and Lore Discussion => Topic started by: Crule on February 03, 2007, 09:46:43 AM

Title: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Crule on February 03, 2007, 09:46:43 AM
Just curious... how will 20th level monks be handled within the game system - specifically with regards to the effects of "Perfect Self" ..

Will the character just be forced into the "Outsiders" faction and be hostile to all ?

In addition,  I was reading in the 3.0 rule book for RL something about a "reality bubble" that surrounds a 20th level monk that effectively makes its own walking/sitting space its own domain - sounding almost like some kind of "globe of invulnerability" - and he is able to traverse closed domain borders at will, etc.

Since there are two monk characters who are getting close to that 20th level (mine and Robert Archers) i was curious as to what the powers that be would be doing as far as game and setting mechanics.   Specifically, with regards to the glowing eyes, perfect self, and Ravenloft's interpretation of the perfect self effect.

(And of course, this isn't an invitiation for some to chime in with "Well, don't you worry - Maynard and Dragrin will never live to see level 20, evil snarl and grin). :D






Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Heretic on February 03, 2007, 11:28:13 AM
Quote
(And of course, this isn't an invitiation for some to chime in with "Well, don't you worry - Maynard and Dragrin will never live to see level 20, evil snarl and grin).

[Phones Stradh]
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 03, 2007, 01:36:40 PM
Quote
(And of course, this isn't an invitiation for some to chime in with "Well, don't you worry - Maynard and Dragrin will never live to see level 20, evil snarl and grin).

[Phones Stradh]
\

:D heh yep

=========

anyhow curious myself as how this will work out any info would be nice :)
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Maryn on February 03, 2007, 01:42:31 PM
Quote
(And of course, this isn't an invitiation for some to chime in with "Well, don't you worry - Maynard and Dragrin will never live to see level 20, evil snarl and grin).

[Phones Stradh]
\

:D heh yep

=========

anyhow curious myself as how this will work out any info would be nice :)

Dont worry, Strahd will ki- I mean, *coughs* take care of you......
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 03, 2007, 01:48:34 PM
I'm sure the Count will get to you, right after he gets to all those other 20th levels and such running around.

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Aldarris on February 03, 2007, 02:39:23 PM
If not, Vicho eventually will...teehee.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Nefensis on February 03, 2007, 02:46:46 PM
If not, Vicho eventually will...teehee.

[giggles snort]
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 03, 2007, 02:52:28 PM
There's no real way to duplicate the effects of a reality wrinkle in the NWN engine. Basically a reality wrinkle is the outsider's strong moral alignment affecting the fabric of the demiplane. The demiplane is reactive towards evil, so those of strong evil or good alignment who are inside the demiplane warp the demiplanar fabric around them, acting almost as if they have their own domain floating about them, suspending the existing domain's "rules" in a radius around the outsider.

We didn't plan on changing the factions for 20th level monks, so I assume you'll still be whatever faction you are.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Doom on February 03, 2007, 04:30:31 PM
But wear a hood to cover those glowy eyes. Or, do Monks not really get glowy eyes?
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: EO on February 03, 2007, 04:33:21 PM
Could give level 20 monks a slightly higher OR due to that, maybe add 2-3 to their OR for the glowy eyes.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: DarkWyvern on February 03, 2007, 04:35:00 PM
Hood wont help I'm afraid. The hood just takes on glowing eyes the color of whatever alignment the person is.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Mcskinns on February 03, 2007, 04:38:13 PM
Monk should have an ECL of 1... that'd fix the problem heh
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 03, 2007, 04:42:35 PM
I like the OR adjustment idea. Could be done manually since there are so few monks that high level.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: EO on February 03, 2007, 04:47:28 PM
It's pretty easy to script too, either way. :)
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Orchson on February 03, 2007, 05:25:27 PM
What's an OR?
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: EO on February 03, 2007, 05:26:21 PM
Outcast rating..the higher it is, the less you are liked in Barovia. Past a certain point, NPC's flatout attack you or run in fear screaming.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Crule on February 03, 2007, 05:55:56 PM
That all works for me.. .assuming I make it that far.   A few points to the OR is reasonable and sensical due to the xenophobia of the populace anyway.   

"Hi, I'm Maynard the friendly monk" <shimmer of eye>" 

"Holy fscking sh!t ... a witch"  and the dude runs in horror.

Anyway - good commentary by all.  We'll see if Maynard or Dragrin makes it that far.   (And better yet, we'll see if Maynard gets fixed to get back in the game - right now, he's still broken)


Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Tarth on February 03, 2007, 05:59:08 PM
the part I'm afraid of is that 20/1 DR....i mean..craps....unhurtable by nearly every monster...wait at lvl 20 you praticly are anywho
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: EO on February 03, 2007, 06:00:42 PM
+1 DR stops about nothing though.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Crule on February 03, 2007, 06:17:35 PM
I just was doing some reading on the Perfect Self ability and noticed another one that PnP monks get at Level 17:

"Tongue of Sun and Moon" - a monk at 17th level can speak with any living creature.      With all the discussion on the whole balok/luktar exclusivity, and if a language gadget was implemented, would this monk ability also be supported ?

Before I am accused of cheesing, what are the thoughts of exercising this ability from the PnP game into the NWN game?

Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Heretic on February 03, 2007, 06:21:47 PM
Well, Ghostwise Halfers are PnP, yet no serious server in their right minds will have them use ''Tells'' to slide thoughts into other PC's. Likewise I would put that Monk Ability on shelf and choose not to use it.

That is my opinion.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: EO on February 03, 2007, 06:23:20 PM
Same, I view it as cheesing to use it in a PW.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Crule on February 03, 2007, 06:25:15 PM
Fair enough... had to ask.

Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: hi-di-ho on February 03, 2007, 09:20:35 PM
well...monks are "perfect" right?

can't they turn off their glowy eyes when they encounter people? or just flash it when they feel the time is right? can't they aslo turn on and off their sphere of influence?

or they have no power over their power?
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 03, 2007, 11:15:09 PM
well...monks are "perfect" right?

can't they turn off their glowy eyes when they encounter people? or just flash it when they feel the time is right? can't they aslo turn on and off their sphere of influence?

or they have no power over their power?
no, once they acheive that state they are transformed. it can't be turned off.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 03, 2007, 11:48:06 PM
Well, Ghostwise Halfers are PnP, yet no serious server in their right minds will have them use ''Tells'' to slide thoughts into other PC's. Likewise I would put that Monk Ability on shelf and choose not to use it.

That is my opinion.

Ghostwise halflings are just a Forgotten Realms Subrace.  In the big scheme of settings out there, it's a definite minority.  Monks on the other hand, are fairly Universal setting wise.  No need to take one of their crowning achievements away from them.

Biggest problem whith the Ghostwise and PW set up is that the PW set up had no way to Limit the range of a tell to the range of Ghostwise telepathy.  Which much like the ghostwise themselves, was fairly short, and annoying.

The Monks just got to deal with what happens to be the crowning achievment of Monk-ness.  Be a good time to start making friends at that point.  Besides, your worried about glowing eyes.  You can allready punch the head off a werewolf bare handed, slap arrows out of the air, heal yourself through will power alone.  I would think that punching the head off a werewolf and super speed thing would be just as much a concern for being burned as a witch, as glowing eyes.


~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Doom on February 04, 2007, 12:19:16 AM
Anyone ever see Fist of the North Star? Hokuto No Ken... now THATS Quiverin palm!

Kenshiro was at least a level 20 monk...
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 04, 2007, 05:24:22 AM
Anyone ever see Fist of the North Star? Hokuto No Ken... now THATS Quiverin palm!

Kenshiro was at least a level 20 monk...

DESPISE the original anime' movie, but the Manga was good, and the Live Action flick was different.

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ravenous on February 04, 2007, 11:25:31 AM
Glowing eyes!?

Heh.. 20/+1 dmg red.. Is nothing really.. PCs that get that are not that few.. Vamps, Lycans, wights(?), lvl 4 DP.. And nearly every NPC has magical weapons or magic fists( :shock:)...
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 04, 2007, 11:47:48 AM
Glowing eyes!?

Heh.. 20/+1 dmg red.. Is nothing really.. PCs that get that are not that few.. Vamps, Lycans, wights(?), lvl 4 DP.. And nearly every NPC has magical weapons or magic fists( :shock:)...

Step it up a bit and tell me this is not a witch.  20th level Monk;  Better AC then a Knight in full plate.  Up to 6 attacks a round with Flurry of Blows, Immune to disease, impossible to damage with a spell that has a reflex save, Able to hit monsters that need a +3, Immune to Poison, spell resistance 30, poke you once with a finger and you die (fort save DC 10 +10 + Wis bonus), 150% faster then normal, swat arrows out of the air casually, and in multitudes, free improved knockdown, Heal themselves once a day thru force of will.  Oh and twice a day, 50% concealment.

I think they should have FAR more problems with the locals with all their other casual abilities (We all Have the Plauge!  Hmm....Not me I'm Fine. *rolls around in plauge rats*) then what they would have with glowing eyes, and seriously, when they reach that point.  What's going to stop them?

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Doom on February 04, 2007, 03:27:51 PM
Maybe PC's would beat their DR but alot of monsters wouldn't I think... And imagine the horror of a native mugger who tries to knife the monk and finds they break their dagger.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 04, 2007, 03:34:15 PM
Did we mention the 6 attacks a round at 1d20 plus whatever they are wearing glove wise?  *Runs up and Pokes the Monk with his +1 sword.....gets turned into a greasy smear*

Don't think they have all that much to fear PC wise.

~Rex
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 04, 2007, 06:27:42 PM
Did we mention the 6 attacks a round at 1d20 plus whatever they are wearing glove wise?  *Runs up and Pokes the Monk with his +1 sword.....gets turned into a greasy smear*

Don't think they have all that much to fear PC wise.

~Rex


heh ummmm right.. :shock:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 04, 2007, 06:44:30 PM
Did we mention the 6 attacks a round at 1d20 plus whatever they are wearing glove wise?  *Runs up and Pokes the Monk with his +1 sword.....gets turned into a greasy smear*

Don't think they have all that much to fear PC wise.

~Rex


heh ummmm right.. :shock:


Sounds like a challenge.  Ah well was planning on making a monk eventually.  :twisted:

~Rex  :evil:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: EO on February 04, 2007, 06:45:11 PM
Only six..? Try dual-wielding kamas with all the feats for seven attacks ;)
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 04, 2007, 06:51:13 PM
Only six..? Try dual-wielding kamas with all the feats for seven attacks ;)

Yeah but that kills your d20 plus gauntlets damage......still sometimes the human quiesenart over comes the Rocky Balboa power.
Don't forget your Flurry of Blows adds into the second weapon string of attacks as well so the attacks are actually like....8 or 9 a round.  And then, what if they have a potion of speed, or their Mage buddy hastes them.  The boots with expeditious retreat plus 150% monk speed are bad enough.

Work in some stunning blow, or called shot, and a zillion attacks......well.  It's not like they have to worry about Strahd showing up.
Except he knows where that reality bubble is all the time.  Like a zit on his ass.

~Rex   :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 04, 2007, 06:55:53 PM
Only six..? Try dual-wielding kamas with all the feats for seven attacks ;)

Yeah but that kills your d20 plus gauntlets damage......still sometimes the human quiesenart over comes the Rocky Balboa power.
Don't forget your Flurry of Blows adds into the second weapon string of attacks as well so the attacks are actually like....8 or 9 a round.  And then, what if they have a potion of speed, or their Mage buddy hastes them.  The boots with expeditious retreat plus 150% monk speed are bad enough.

Work in some stunning blow, or called shot, and a zillion attacks......well.  It's not like they have to worry about Strahd showing up.
Except he knows where that reality bubble is all the time.  Like a zit on his ass.

~Rex   :twisted:

yeah but zits are fun to play with and torture too heh :evil grin:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 04, 2007, 09:08:50 PM
 :offtopic:

Back on track.  BTW, your a halfling Monk.  That's only Half a Monk, allmost a monk, not quiet.  Diet Monk.

~Rex  :evil:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Nefensis on February 04, 2007, 10:18:33 PM
Shouldnt monks be treated to the same levels as paladin on a term of holyness? Shouldnt Dark powers try and corrupt them in a way or another?
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Crule on February 04, 2007, 10:23:04 PM
Shouldnt monks be treated to the same levels as paladin on a term of holyness? Shouldnt Dark powers try and corrupt them in a way or another?

Well, this gets back to the opinions on "monkness" which Blue and I stalemated over 7 pages of debate back in the fall.     Are monks training for their own personal benefit (as Tarasa plays her monk) or are do the practice the ascetic life and atheletic training for the glory of their patron diety?    To each their own - and I know that I'd rather not have to defend my position on the "theology of the NWN monk" again.

Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Doom on February 04, 2007, 10:40:57 PM
According to the Handbook of Ravenloft, Monks are more Selfish then Selfless, and they have special rules for selfishness and power checks. Lemme look it up...

Quote
Monk
In some ways, monks have much in common
with clerics. They primarily concern themselves
with matters of the spirit. Unlike clerics, however,
monks place little faith in higher powers. A monk
turns her eyes inward, seeking to use strict discipline,
intense meditation, and focusing exercises to
perfectly purify her spirit (or ki) and, through it,
her flesh. Monasteries dedicated to this pursuit are
nestled in the exotic realms of Rokushima Taiyoo
and Sri Raji. In the latter domain, the monks
(called fakirs in the Rajian tongue) test their inner
strength by inflicting sometimes-grotesque physical
punishments on themselves, such as piercing
their flesh with iron skewers and hooks. The monk
tradition also exists in the lonesome city of
Paridon, where the local adherents have melded it
with occult lodge traditions to create the
"theological philosophy" they call the Divinity of
Mankind.
Tales also exist of lone monks who wander
other domains. Rather than joining monasteries,
these monks often learn under a single master and
pass on their teachings to a single apprentice.
Monks are keenly aware that they live in a
world brimming with carnal and spiritual temptation.
Those who choose to adventure do so to set
themselves against these honeyed barbs, knowing
that inner strength means nothing if it is never
tested. Some monks are selfish, purifying their
spirits in the pursuit of power, but other monks
wander to help steer those souls who lack the
enlightenment to protect themselves from corruption.
Altered Class Features
Diamond Body: This ability does not protect
against the effects of closed domain borders.
Abundant Step: This ability does not allow
the monk to cross closed domain borders.
Empty Body: This ability allows access
only to the Near Ethereal. See "Altered Magic" in
chapter 3 for more on ethereal effects.
Perfect Self: If the monk has a good or evil
moral alignment, she develops a reality wrinkle
with an initial radius of 1,000 feet per level. If the
monk fails any power checks, consider them failed
power rituals; each failed check adds 1d4 corruption
points to the monk's total and halves the
wrinkle's radius. See "Fiends" in chapter 5 for
more details.

Quote
Weaknesses: Whatever their initial motivation, Monks' self absorption may lead them to disregaurd others in their singleminded persuit of perfection. Some may even think they are still acting for the good of others when they have, in fact, fallen into arrogance and conceit. As they become evermore concerned with advancement of their physical and mental prowess, Monks also become more detached form the world aorund them. Thus, they may commit deeds they once considered unthinkable, inviting the attention of the dark powers. Similar to fighters, with each level beyond the first, Monks have a 5% chance per level to fall to corruption. Selfless acts reduce the chance by 1%, but never below a base chance of 1%, while cruel, unthinking of evil acts increa them by a 1% in a like manner )if specific actions do not already call for a powers check at a higher percentage chance)

So in the end, Monks can be both. But such is the nature of Ravenloft that, as with anyone else, it is difficult not to fall astray...
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 04, 2007, 10:50:04 PM
Ignore that weaknesses crap. That was introduced in a poorly-written 3.5 update that has been universally panned by the Ravenloft fanbase. But the first quote about monks in Ravenloft in general is good...and yes, a 20th level monk who fails a powers check is indeed like a fiend who attemps a power ritual.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Crule on February 04, 2007, 10:52:49 PM
Ignore that weaknesses crap. That was introduced in a poorly-written 3.5 update that has been universally panned by the Ravenloft fanbase. But the first quote about monks in Ravenloft in general is good...and yes, a 20th level monk who fails a powers check is indeed like a fiend who attemps a power ritual.

But for the purposes of POTM,  the whole "fiends" and "power rituals" is related to the monk's "wrinkle" - which is not being implemted in this game, correct?
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 04, 2007, 11:00:38 PM
It's not being implemented mechanically because it doesn't really need to be. But a 20th level would still have a reality wrinkle.

Basically the corruption points makes a reality wrinkle smaller and binds an outsider to the demiplane, making it impossible to leave if they have too many corruption points. A 20th level monk would be the same.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Crule on February 04, 2007, 11:18:19 PM
It's not being implemented mechanically because it doesn't really need to be. But a 20th level would still have a reality wrinkle.

Basically the corruption points makes a reality wrinkle smaller and binds an outsider to the demiplane, making it impossible to leave if they have too many corruption points. A 20th level monk would be the same.

If it's not being implemented in the game mechanics, how can we say it exists?  Would that not be a cheese?  It's much akin to the argument earlier about the "Tongue of Moon and Sun" - we don't have a language widget in place - so an attempt to exercise this PnP skill in the module would also be met with accusations of cheesing - as stated earlier in this thread.

More over, if the "reality wrinkle" exists but is not implemented in game mechanics - how can we really say its' there at all.  What about the vistani mist ?  Would a 20th level monk be able to pass through it?   If he is bound by the current game mechanics, then subsequent claims of the "reality wrinkle" is bound just by RP of the player and the DM team?     Then if that's the case,  then the "Tongue of Sun and Moon" ability - which is also a question of RP (since we have no language widgets) should be allowed as well, don't you think?

Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: EO on February 04, 2007, 11:23:56 PM
No Crule, the line is drawn when a DM permits it. If DM,s say you have a reality wrinkle, you do, if they say you don't understand all languages, then so be it.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Crule on February 04, 2007, 11:33:28 PM
No Crule, the line is drawn when a DM permits it. If DM,s say you have a reality wrinkle, you do, if they say you don't understand all languages, then so be it.

Very well - then let's have consistancy on the issue - and let the DMs make a concrete ruling on it.

1.  Will the reality wrinkle be supported in some fashion or another.  If so, how?   What guidance does the player have in RPing said wrinkle?  What guidance exists for DMs who wish to interact with said player?

2.  Along the same lines, if reality wrinkles will be implemented on a role-played basis, then will "tongue of sun and moon" likewise be allowed to be implemented?   Since it is all based on role play as no game mechanics are in place to enforce language knowledge, then what harm is there in allowing it in as well.

We've seen your opinion on the matter, EO.  I would like to hear from the DM team or the folks in Soren's management tier. 

Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 04, 2007, 11:51:39 PM
All you need to know about reality wrinkles is:

1. While within one, a darklord cannot access his/her domain given powers (such as Strahd's ability to control wolves and undead)

2. An outsider with a reality wrinkle can cross a closed border domain

3. An outsider with a reality wrinkle is a "blind spot" for a darklord

All of this can be done in game without need of game mechanics without being considered "cheesing."

The corruption points thing basically works in this method: if an outsider gains too many, it can never leave the demiplane.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 04, 2007, 11:55:14 PM
All you need to know about reality wrinkles is:

1. While within one, a darklord cannot access his/her domain given powers (such as Strahd's ability to control wolves and undead)

2. An outsider with a reality wrinkle can cross a closed border domain

3. An outsider with a reality wrinkle is a "blind spot" for a darklord

All of this can be done in game without need of game mechanics without being considered "cheesing."

The corruption points thing basically works in this method: if an outsider gains too many, it can never leave the demiplane.

ooooo nice well guess that mostly sums it up i suppose for me thanks blue...
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ravenous on February 05, 2007, 07:28:25 AM
To clarify another point.. All creatures that need magic weapons to hurt have in themselves magic weapons ;) Meaning most of the NPCs across the module... Unless they actually use weapons, then they might not have magic weapons, but probably do...

So Maynard would run around with a 20.000 feet radius reality wrinkle :shock:, that would (nearly?) go all the way to Castle Ravenloft, would at least encompass Vallaki and surroundings.. Im guessing that is way more than a zit in the ass of Strahd, more like getting a**f****d with a broadsword..
Im guessing it is not something that Strahd would not deal with FAST..
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 05, 2007, 07:38:56 AM
Yeah I can't see Strahd ignoring that much of a pain.  But then he has been allowing all this high level competition to run amuck in his lands for some time, whats a 20th level monk going to really mean to him?  Only the DM's know.  Of course he is an Outlander, the Demi Plane could allways just Puke him out.

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ravenous on February 05, 2007, 07:58:34 AM
Agreed..
But the reality wrinkle in itself is a threat to Strahds power. He knows nothing of what goes on inside the wrinkle, and he loses his domain given powers inside it. That is even worse than a bunch of lvl 20 mages running around minding their own business, worse even than a high lvl paladin running around acting goodie goodie..
In essence it is something that Strahd cant ignore.. It is far to dangerous to ignore..
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 05, 2007, 08:14:46 AM
Agreed..
But the reality wrinkle in itself is a threat to Strahds power. He knows nothing of what goes on inside the wrinkle, and he loses his domain given powers inside it. That is even worse than a bunch of lvl 20 mages running around minding their own business, worse even than a high lvl paladin running around acting goodie goodie..
In essence it is something that Strahd cant ignore.. It is far to dangerous to ignore..

Paladins get their own itchy problems too.  High level paladins are allmost as annoying as a good Outsider would be. Itchy Itchy.  There is just no way a Domain Lord would tolerate a reality bubble.  It's to much of a challenge to their authority.

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Crule on February 05, 2007, 08:46:35 AM
All you need to know about reality wrinkles is:

1. While within one, a darklord cannot access his/her domain given powers (such as Strahd's ability to control wolves and undead)

2. An outsider with a reality wrinkle can cross a closed border domain

3. An outsider with a reality wrinkle is a "blind spot" for a darklord

All of this can be done in game without need of game mechanics without being considered "cheesing."

The corruption points thing basically works in this method: if an outsider gains too many, it can never leave the demiplane.

ooooo nice well guess that mostly sums it up i suppose for me thanks blue...

Actually, it begs more questions than answers.

If as stated earlier that this wrinkle is a 5 mile radius around the 20th level monk.... does it also effect other players ability to summon/control who are in that "sphere of effect"?   Or just the domain lord?   

If he can cross a closed border, is the vistani mist on the way to the Barovia village considered of similar construction?  And if so, does the 20th level monk get an exemption to having to purchase the elixir?

And lastly, the second questionf or the DMs was that if reality wrinkles are going to be supported then what about the "tongue of sun and moon" ?

Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 05, 2007, 10:57:44 AM
All you need to know about reality wrinkles is:

1. While within one, a darklord cannot access his/her domain given powers (such as Strahd's ability to control wolves and undead)

2. An outsider with a reality wrinkle can cross a closed border domain

3. An outsider with a reality wrinkle is a "blind spot" for a darklord

All of this can be done in game without need of game mechanics without being considered "cheesing."

The corruption points thing basically works in this method: if an outsider gains too many, it can never leave the demiplane.

ooooo nice well guess that mostly sums it up i suppose for me thanks blue...

Actually, it begs more questions than answers.

If as stated earlier that this wrinkle is a 5 mile radius around the 20th level monk.... does it also effect other players ability to summon/control who are in that "sphere of effect"?   Or just the domain lord?   

If he can cross a closed border, is the vistani mist on the way to the Barovia village considered of similar construction?  And if so, does the 20th level monk get an exemption to having to purchase the elixir?

And lastly, the second questionf or the DMs was that if reality wrinkles are going to be supported then what about the "tongue of sun and moon" ?




Off topic: sunddenly get several flashes of dbz for some reason ;)

=====

hmmm yeah thats true crule...so how bout it then dm's/devs/etc. if you'd get maynard and dragrin lvl 20ed running bout i'd say both would get pretty nailed :) epp heh uhh right anyhow so we get a 20,000 foot radius each ummm yeah i'd say that would piiss off domain lords hells sure glad now we DONT got epic lvls heh jeez could you see like 10 40lvl monks running bout lapping over there fields  :shock:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Crule on February 05, 2007, 11:14:56 AM


Off topic: sunddenly get several flashes of dbz for some reason ;)

=====

hmmm yeah thats true crule...so how bout it then dm's/devs/etc. if you'd get maynard and dragrin lvl 20ed running bout i'd say both would get pretty nailed :) epp heh uhh right anyhow so we get a 20,000 foot radius each ummm yeah i'd say that would piiss off domain lords hells sure glad now we DONT got epic lvls heh jeez could you see like 10 40lvl monks running bout lapping over there fields  :shock:


WHAT???

No Offense, but spelling, punctuation, and a lack of 733t speak would serve this thread of discussion a bit better, methinks.  At least, I'd be able to understand what you have just written.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 05, 2007, 11:47:13 AM
All you need to know about reality wrinkles is:

1. While within one, a darklord cannot access his/her domain given powers (such as Strahd's ability to control wolves and undead)

2. An outsider with a reality wrinkle can cross a closed border domain

3. An outsider with a reality wrinkle is a "blind spot" for a darklord

All of this can be done in game without need of game mechanics without being considered "cheesing."

The corruption points thing basically works in this method: if an outsider gains too many, it can never leave the demiplane.

ooooo nice well guess that mostly sums it up i suppose for me thanks blue...

Actually, it begs more questions than answers.

If as stated earlier that this wrinkle is a 5 mile radius around the 20th level monk.... does it also effect other players ability to summon/control who are in that "sphere of effect"? Or just the domain lord?
Just the domain lord

Quote
If he can cross a closed border, is the vistani mist on the way to the Barovia village considered of similar construction? And if so, does the 20th level monk get an exemption to having to purchase the elixir?
no and no

Quote
And lastly, the second questionf or the DMs was that if reality wrinkles are going to be supported then what about the "tongue of sun and moon" ?
apples and oranges. reality wrinkles and their effects don't really affect other players. Unless/until we support some sort of language system, I'm going to hold off on the "tongue of sun and moon."


Quote
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 05, 2007, 12:15:06 PM


Off topic: sunddenly get several flashes of dbz for some reason ;)

=====

hmmm yeah thats true crule...so how bout it then dm's/devs/etc. if you'd get maynard and dragrin lvl 20ed running bout i'd say both would get pretty nailed :) epp heh uhh right anyhow so we get a 20,000 foot radius each ummm yeah i'd say that would piiss off domain lords hells sure glad now we DONT got epic lvls heh jeez could you see like 10 40lvl monks running bout lapping over there fields  :shock:


WHAT???

No Offense, but spelling, punctuation, and a lack of 733t speak would serve this thread of discussion a bit better, methinks.  At least, I'd be able to understand what you have just written.


sorry was a bit still hung over there....
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Gutshank on February 05, 2007, 12:40:09 PM
Well slap mah fro. Ya need to settle waaaay down man. Jes hang loose, brud  So cut 'im some slack, jack 'e was sippin the juice!  Dont jus' 'ate. Facilitate. Ya Dig?
S' coo' Man.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Doom on February 05, 2007, 12:41:42 PM
We dig brotha yesseerp~

I thought Paladins created small reality bubble around them once they past level 2 or 3 and it just gets bigger and bigger?
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ravenous on February 05, 2007, 01:52:38 PM
Paladins get reality bubbles/wrinkles?
I know that they become an itch in the Dark Lords butt, but not in any way like a 20th lvl monk would be, especially a good one..
I think they get something else..
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 05, 2007, 02:52:06 PM
paladins do not create reality wrinkles
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Crule on February 05, 2007, 04:02:09 PM
Blue:

Is there any guidance that us as players of monks should need should we get to level 20 so that we might roleplay the ... the knowledge or something of this wrinkle?     Any general guidance at all?

Or is the existance of this wrinkle presumably "unbeknownst" to the character - but the domain lord most certainly knows about it?

Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Adorah on February 05, 2007, 04:52:02 PM
Goodness I hope not!

I dont want to be associated with those freaky monks...

but yeah I dont think so, but perhaps someone else might know?
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 05, 2007, 05:13:55 PM
Goodness I hope not!

I dont want to be associated with those freaky monks...

but yeah I dont think so, but perhaps someone else might know?

:D coward....heh
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 05, 2007, 06:22:14 PM
You've achieved TOTAL perfection, the pinacle of your career path, and yet, you do not notice?  Don't think so.  You may not know what it IS, but you certainly notice it.  Since your're an outlander, the demi plane Just may decide to burp you out, getting rid of you, Or, corrupt you onto a path of your own nefarious evil, getting you your own little domain out in the mists, aka, getting rid of you.

All sorts of potential.

~Rex  :evil:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ravenous on February 06, 2007, 11:16:41 AM
Probably the second alternative there Rex..
In PnP after all its nigh impossible getting to lvl 20 as a monk uncorrupted. But then again im way more hardcore that way..
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 06, 2007, 01:43:02 PM
Of course you really have to DO something to get corrupted.  Then of course you also have to DO said things in such a brilliant way, that the DM's notice as well.

~Rex :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 06, 2007, 07:13:53 PM
Blue:

Is there any guidance that us as players of monks should need should we get to level 20 so that we might roleplay the ... the knowledge or something of this wrinkle? Any general guidance at all?

Or is the existance of this wrinkle presumably "unbeknownst" to the character - but the domain lord most certainly knows about it?


i'm not sure if the monk would necessarily notice the reality wrinkle unless he knew a thing or two about the demiplane. I'll have to consult Van Richten's Guide to Fiends when I get home.

As far as a darklord noticing it...it's more like a black hole. They don't notice the outsider, they notice an absence or blind spot.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 06, 2007, 07:16:01 PM
Blue:

Is there any guidance that us as players of monks should need should we get to level 20 so that we might roleplay the ... the knowledge or something of this wrinkle?     Any general guidance at all?

Or is the existance of this wrinkle presumably "unbeknownst" to the character - but the domain lord most certainly knows about it?


i'm not sure if the monk would necessarily notice the reality wrinkle unless he knew a thing or two about the demiplane. I'll have to consult Van Richten's Guide to Fiends when I get home.

As far as a darklord noticing it...it's more like a black hole. They don't notice the outsider, they notice an absence or blind spot.

BIG blindspot.  I say, Strahd shows up at the Kumite, throws down and eliminates the competition.

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ravenous on February 06, 2007, 07:54:47 PM
Corruption PnP style is easy.. Use Evil Necromancy spell that killed something aka Finger of Death.. 10% Power Check at the very least, auto fail if used on something good..
And what was it for monks.. 5% +1%/lvl every time they lvl up? My players never got away with anything :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: EO on February 06, 2007, 07:57:04 PM
That's in a campaign however, the numbers are adjusted here because the context is very different. A player in a campaign won't spam necromancy spells for the sheer sake of going up the DP's, however in-game it can easily be done. A lot more can be done and evil is easier to do in a PW than in a linear campaign with a single party.

Don't use the PnP logic to powers checks for a PW, it is not working correctly.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ravenous on February 07, 2007, 01:07:38 PM
I get that EO ;)

But a first DP shouldnt be that hard to get, not to easy either of course... Ah, just my mind working here..
 :lol:Just find it funny that a high lvl necromancer remains uncorrupted despite numerous uses of evil spells and demonic summoning.. Will have to work on something suitably wicked :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 07, 2007, 01:13:27 PM
I get that EO ;)

But a first DP shouldnt be that hard to get, not to easy either of course... Ah, just my mind working here..
 :lol: Just find it funny that a high lvl necromancer remains uncorrupted despite numerous uses of evil spells and demonic summoning.. Will have to work on something suitably wicked :twisted:
Don't misunderstand, you can still get a powers check for casting those spells, but a DM has to witness it in context. Otherwise a sorceror could spam horrid wilting all day and go from stage 1 to stage 6 in couple of hours  :lol:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ravenous on February 07, 2007, 01:17:23 PM
Watch me!!! ;)
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 07, 2007, 01:27:31 PM
Methinks Bela is a .....touch....behind on overdue Powers Checks. 

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: EO on February 07, 2007, 01:54:38 PM
I'd rather see people with powers checks start roleplaying out their curses, otherwise they are mainly boons. Most players chose to ignore their powers checks most of the time as it is more convenient.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 07, 2007, 01:59:42 PM
Gimme one and I'll RP it out.  But otherwise, I agree.  Hell I'd settle for people RPing out their low charisma :D .  I'd sell what's left of my soul, to see someone play a female character, that is either a Dwarf, or a Fat Human.

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Nefensis on February 07, 2007, 02:09:02 PM
Quote
I'd sell what's left of my soul, to see someone play a female character, that is either a Dwarf, or a Fat Human.

Purple plays a dwaf female [cant 'member its name]

And Shaddy Merchant plays a fat human ;) Fredek Artali
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 07, 2007, 02:30:24 PM
Quote
I'd sell what's left of my soul, to see someone play a female character, that is either a Dwarf, or a Fat Human.

Purple plays a dwaf female [cant 'member its name]

And Shaddy Merchant plays a fat human ;) Fredek Artali

Haven't seen them anywhere myself.  Still.  *ponders* You know Nef, YOU, could make us a nice evil chunky high charisma Jane Russel type PC to balance out all the sex kitten toons here.  Or a Mae West type.  Hell in a gothic setting, the GOOD looking women should be the chunky ones anyway.

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Heretic on February 07, 2007, 02:49:08 PM
Quote
I'd sell what's left of my soul, to see someone play a female character, that is either a Dwarf, or a Fat Human.

Purple plays a dwaf female [cant 'member its name]

And Shaddy Merchant plays a fat human ;) Fredek Artali

Fat, Peg legged cripple illiterate guard. Hard to beat.

Petre Chomski
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 07, 2007, 02:55:30 PM
Oh yeah.  Do that with a female PC.

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ravenous on February 07, 2007, 03:18:16 PM
I only have one char with DPs.. Lvl 1 DP at that, meaning not a serious curse. Sadek has a craving for the flesh of sentient beings and is slightly more bestial than before.. In other words, his natural tendencies got magnified.. ;)
And one can hardly call Sadek a peoples person, seeing as he would eat anyone if not Carrib was there to keep him in check at times.. And the fact that he tends to bully people rather than sweet talk them..
Heh, I seem to manage both then :D

Though I agree that Id like to see more play to their low attributes..
Below average int->You can not speak clearly!(I have alot of grief with this.. Examine-> gets "Seems a bit dull-witted etc" and they behave like they are fully normal.. stinks of power-building)
Below average Wis-> Prone to rash acts.. Maybe mad in some way.. Daydreamer.. etc..
Below average Cha-> Not a peoples person!

But then again id like to see people RP their strengths as well..
High Str-> Lots of muscles.. Not some slim chick here.. coupled with a high Con as well we get a big person..
And yet alot of those with high scores in these attributes, especially women, put in "beautiful, slim but athletic"  when it should say "ever seen any of those chicks in bodybuilder magazines? .... looks like that."
For example, Julia Colds would have tendencies to look like one of those women ;)(18+ Str is massive! Its the peak of human physique, beyond that is superhuman..)
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 07, 2007, 06:04:05 PM
I only have one char with DPs.. Lvl 1 DP at that, meaning not a serious curse. Sadek has a craving for the flesh of sentient beings and is slightly more bestial than before.. In other words, his natural tendencies got magnified.. ;)
And one can hardly call Sadek a peoples person, seeing as he would eat anyone if not Carrib was there to keep him in check at times.. And the fact that he tends to bully people rather than sweet talk them..
Heh, I seem to manage both then :D

Though I agree that Id like to see more play to their low attributes..
Below average int->You can not speak clearly!(I have alot of grief with this.. Examine-> gets "Seems a bit dull-witted etc" and they behave like they are fully normal.. stinks of power-building)
Below average Wis-> Prone to rash acts.. Maybe mad in some way.. Daydreamer.. etc..
Below average Cha-> Not a peoples person!

But then again id like to see people RP their strengths as well..
High Str-> Lots of muscles.. Not some slim chick here.. coupled with a high Con as well we get a big person..
And yet alot of those with high scores in these attributes, especially women, put in "beautiful, slim but athletic"  when it should say "ever seen any of those chicks in bodybuilder magazines? .... looks like that."
For example, Julia Colds would have tendencies to look like one of those women ;)(18+ Str is massive! Its the peak of human physique, beyond that is superhuman..)

People do that because they do not really understand the scales of the DND system, to the real world.

Intelligence is easy.  Add a Zero to the end of the number, that is your IQ.  The other stats are compairable to that as well.

Strength is one people get FUBARED on.  A 12 Strength, broken down into loads (those of us with military backgrounds fondly remember the load of a full kit), is simple.  Light 43 pounds.  Medium 44 to 86.  Heavy 87 to 130 pounds.....Now, that effects you speed just like armor of the same "load class".  No biggie, and to a lot, doesn't look like much.  a 12 STR person, can lift 130 pounds straight up, over their head.  I work in construction, that's NOT easy, even for strong people.  They can lift 260 pounds up to their gut, and go very slowly with it.  They can push/drag/deadlift it just off the ground,  650 pounds.  Current world record for Deadlift in the heavyweight class right now I believe is 500 kg (set by Matt Rossiter, aukland)  Though deadlift records get broken all the time, before Matt it was Ken Brown.  500 kg is around 1100 pounds, give or take.  A 12 STR can DO HALF THAT.

This makes for BIG people.  If you can take, a 650 pound block of something, and shove it across the floor, you are a beast.  I hook you up to a 650 pound pile of cinder blocks and you drag it somewhere, but you can't do oh, 750 pounds, you're at about a 12 str.

Wheeled objects don't count.  Reguarly, on the day job, my average wheeled load pushed/pulled by hand, was betwen 2,000 and 6,000 pounds (example, Bunk of 4" Jatoba Hardwood on a cart = 4400 pounds (40 cases) + weight of cart (another 150 or so), average good sized Jatoba job, 50 cases or 5500 pounds.  Tile could be even more, especially granite or porcelain).  Math people can tell you that with wheeled weights it's only a matter of providing the initial energy of roughly 25% of the mass, to get it moving, then less to maintain it because Inertia helps.  Until you try and stop it.

That is your scale.  Model accordingly.  You can get a lot of power out of a good Looking lithe woman, ala, Rachel Mclish ( http://www.builtreport.com/mclish/042.jpg ) But that was when she started building for figure and symaetry, as opposed to Power.  Because there is a VERY simple rule in power lifting, or body building.  It takes MASS, to lift Mass.  Mass on women, makes them look like this. ( http://www.builtreport.com/mclish/019.jpg ).  I like Rachel a lot more now that she stoped going for Power.

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 07, 2007, 06:11:03 PM
 :offtopic:

okay this is rapidly getting off-topic. the thread is about 20th level monks in ravenloft, not about how D&D stats are translated into reality, or how to roleplay powers checks.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 07, 2007, 06:32:43 PM
:offtopic:

okay this is rapidly getting off-topic. the thread is about 20th level monks in ravenloft, not about how D&D stats are translated into reality, or how to roleplay powers checks.

True it did skew off topic.  But the stat post has relevance.  It's not how DnD stats reflect their real world counterparts, it's how they should impact the look of what you see in game.  An 18 str woman should not be a centerfold beanpole.  Power checks came up in regards to what happens in other avenues for Monks approaching that power level.

As for the monks, and some of the other people in that range.

WHY, does the Count, not do something about it?  Cannonly speaking, the skeletal steeds have arrived for FAR less of a threat to the count, then some reality bubble creating, d20 plus damage 9 something attacks areound immune to half the stuff in the game Monk?

The Count is being a damn sissy.

~Rex  :evil:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 07, 2007, 06:40:56 PM
As for the monks, and some of the other people in that range.

WHY, does the Count, not do something about it?  Cannonly speaking, the skeletal steeds have arrived for FAR less of a threat to the count, then some reality bubble creating, d20 plus damage 9 something attacks areound immune to half the stuff in the game Monk?

The Count is being a damn sissy.

~Rex :evil:
As I've explained before:

If your PC presents a direct threat to Strahd then he will more than likely deal with you. But being a "direct threat" means something more specific than being a high-level character.
Strahd has much better things to do with his time than pounce on every high-level character. He should be reserved for special relevant events.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Doom on February 07, 2007, 06:42:52 PM
There aren't any Skeletal Steeds. Strahd rides in a carriage powered by the force of his pure awesomeness that gives off mildly acidic toxic vapors that cause any member of greenpeace that inhales them to spontaniously combust. Stradh for Preisdent. But i'm gett off topic.

At first I expected Strahd to run about crushing and destroying any threat in a Nicollo Machiavelli-esque manner, but i'm beginning to think the characters style is different from that.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 07, 2007, 06:45:10 PM
At first I expected Strahd to run about crushing and destroying any threat in a Nicollo Machiavelli-esque manner, but i'm beginning to think the characters style is different from that.
*Hands Blues a cookie*  :cookie: Finally, someone gets it!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Doom on February 07, 2007, 06:55:38 PM
Well if -I- was an evil overlord thats what I would do... Azalin Rex Style all the way. But whatever floats Strahds boat. A boat made from the sewn together corpses of his enemies. Don't worry it's dry, Barovia is landlocked.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 07, 2007, 07:07:46 PM
Well if -I- was an evil overlord thats what I would do... Azalin Rex Style all the way. But whatever floats Strahds boat. A boat made from the sewn together corpses of his enemies. Don't worry it's dry, Barovia is landlocked.
That's one of the reasons why Azalin and Strahd never saw eye to eye.

Really, Strahd is nothing if not patient. If need be, he can simply outlive his enemies....and has on many occasions.  :evillol:

He mainly relies on his servants and minions to take care of general troublemakers...and if those servants fail him they know the consequences.

Strahd will only make an appearance if the characters are doing something that affects him personally.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Iconoclast on February 07, 2007, 08:04:05 PM
When reading against the grain of Strahd's memoir, I see Strahd as his own worst enemy. He was a master of war, and could handle the pragmatics of governing. But when it came to his personal life, when it come to love, to affairs of the heart, or his fear of his own mortality, he was a tragic failure, a tragic coward. Far too many years invested into nothing but war and conquest of others, at the expence of never maturing or growing emotionally or spiritually. He inspires as much pity as he does dread. In fact, in his memoir, I feel he does wallow in self-pity, painting a picture of himself as a victum or a tragic hero at times.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Doom on February 07, 2007, 09:28:57 PM
Certain people Strahd saved the lives of for incomprehensible reasons do indeed greatly pity him and that's probably going to ruin them...~shift eyes at Blue~

Thats what makes Strahd such a deep character really. In the end you have to ask yourself- is he really evil, or just someone who'd be seeing a Shrink these days?

Quote
Really, Strahd is nothing if not patient. If need be, he can simply outlive his enemies....and has on many occasions

Sounds like an elf... And he does have those ears..HMMMMM! Keeding, of course.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Nefensis on February 07, 2007, 09:49:39 PM
Quote
Strahd has much better things to do with his time than pounce on every high-level character. He should be reserved for special relevant events.

[swooon] Yah can pounce me anyday of the week Strahdelicious...  :lol:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Raziel on February 08, 2007, 01:07:59 AM
A couple questions since I haven't read over my books in a while.
Since the monk in question creates a domain around itself, would a Darklord be able to sense that hole in their realm, similar to how they can sense any lvl of paladin?  If so, I'm sure that the DL would want to keep an eye on the monk.... Or dissect him to see if this personal realm could be a means to escape.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 08, 2007, 01:10:47 AM
A couple questions since I haven't read over my books in a while.
Since the monk in question creates a domain around itself, would a Darklord be able to sense that hole in their realm, similar to how they can sense any lvl of paladin?  If so, I'm sure that the DL would want to keep an eye on the monk.... Or dissect him to see if this personal realm could be a means to escape.
it's not truly a domain, and the effect would be the opposite of what paladins do. A paladin acts like salt on a wound to a darklord...a reality wrinkle is like a black hole--you can't see it, just the absence of light around it.

And darklords can't escape in an outsider's reality wrinkle, though that doesn't mean they couldn't try if they don't know how they work.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Raziel on February 08, 2007, 01:20:57 AM


And darklords can't escape in an outsider's reality wrinkle, though that doesn't mean they couldn't try if they don't know how they work.

Yeah, I remembered that part.  Though I think some of them obessed with escape would be really interested in the ability to cross closed boarders. 
So anyway, the Lords that can sense everyone and everything, Azalin for example, would just see a black hole or nothing.  I wonder if the same holds true in Castle Ravenloft or something like the black coach.  Eh, just idle curiosity.  I'm sure though that it's a situation that doesn't come up to often and would merit scrutiny once the Lord notices it.  Whatever action gets taken would probably be a reaction to what the monk does with his abilities.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Doom on February 08, 2007, 01:25:21 AM
What is this black coach drawn with Nightmares that people keep talking about?
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Raziel on February 08, 2007, 01:28:44 AM
If you ever find out, it's too late  :lol:

From what I understand, it was one of the gifts from the dark powers.  It's drawn by 4 black horses (I don't think they're demonic nightmares) and Strahd can control it with his mind, just like the doors and gates in Ravenloft.  In addition, he can sense anyone in it and close it it.  Need the book in front of me for the range, but anyway he sometimes sends it to people to fetch them or takes it himself if he needs to travel for a couple days. 
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 08, 2007, 01:43:13 AM
Pretty much. 

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 08, 2007, 01:56:37 AM
So anyway, the Lords that can sense everyone and everything,
No they can't. They're not omnipotent gods.
Quote

Quote from: Blues
What is this black coach drawn with Nightmares that people keep talking about?
He has a coach drawn by horses (just horses) that can bring people to his castle if he wishes it. There's no driver, but that's about it as far as "supernatural" stuff goes. As Michael said, he either sends it to bring guests to his castle or uses it himself.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 08, 2007, 02:02:41 AM
So anyway, the Lords that can sense everyone and everything,
No they can't. They're not omnipotent gods.
Quote

Quote from: Blues
What is this black coach drawn with Nightmares that people keep talking about?
He has a coach drawn by horses (just horses) that can bring people to his castle if he wishes it. There's no driver, but that's about it as far as "supernatural" stuff goes. As Michael said, he either sends it to bring guests to his castle or uses it himself.

What he said.  HOWEVER, while the Count is of infinite patience with regards to people screwing with him (as many immortal beings are), Jack his ride and see what happens to you.

~Rex  :evil:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ravenous on February 08, 2007, 06:59:40 AM
I would imagine that a monk with a 20.000 feet reality wrinkle would be a threat to Strahd no matter what.  After all they cause trouble just by existing, not to mention that Strahd will lose control of every last one of his undead minions if they happened to get into that bubble, and that could create some problems by itself..

On the topic of Skeletal Steeds, Strahd is a powerful necromancer. He has created loads of these beauties.
Nightmares, there are no nightmares(as in the horse demon, plenty of normal nightmares though)..
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Doom on February 08, 2007, 12:10:31 PM
Horse Theif would be an awesome PC to play... you ever notice Festus' are just out there? begging for taking...
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 08, 2007, 01:29:15 PM
Would help if you could ride the horses.  Otherwise it's just the Ranger/Druid animal empathy lead them out of town into the tavern schtick.  Taking ANYTHING strahd views as property though, cannonly really pisses him off.

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 08, 2007, 01:52:07 PM
for the last time: keep it on topic please. This thread is about high-level monks in Ravenloft. If you want to discuss horses or dark powers checks, start a new thread.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 08, 2007, 01:57:27 PM
ok well something i was thinking abou today during my Baking class (yeah yeah i know dont pay attention  :roll: ) anyhow if the monks wrinkle thing makes a sorta domain well wouldnt a scrying spell that lets you view another plane etc. allow someone to see inside there (fyi i dont know my mage/cleric spells to well so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong)
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 08, 2007, 02:03:12 PM
ok well something i was thinking abou today during my Baking class (yeah yeah i know dont pay attention  :roll: ) anyhow if the monks wrinkle thing makes a sorta domain well wouldnt a scrying spell that lets you view another plane etc. allow someone to see inside there (fyi i dont know my mage/cleric spells to well so feel free to correct me if i'm wrong)

No not really.

~Rex  :twisted:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Rex on February 10, 2007, 03:52:30 PM
Just figured I'd add this in here before taking something of a break for a few days.  It's from the Ravenloft DMG and it goes roughly:

Ascended Outsider's:  When a mortal's creature  type permanently changes to "outsider" (such as a 20th level Monk), the character is said to have ascended.  A NON-Neutral ascended outsider gains the type descriptors (Chaotic, Evil, Good, Lawful) matching it's ethical and moral alignment.  A lawful Evil Monk, would gain the Evil and Lawful descriptors, for example, and would thus, be considered a Fiend.  The reality wrinkles for Ascended fiends and Celestials, are half the radius (1,000 feet per HD) of those emitted by outsiders that were never mortal.

Native Outsider's:  Outsiders that were spawned within Ravenloft itself (such as most Ascended PCs) do not gain phylacteries; if destroyed their spiritual essence disperses into the mists.

The Mists Descriptor:  When a hero ascends to become and outsider within Ravenloft, she can take the Mists Descriptor if she wishes to (see Ravenloft Players handbook, Chapter Three, "Altered Majic" Conjuration).  In terms that would concern a PC, such outsiders can pass through any closed domain border without harm, but they do not gain reality wrinkles, they can not perform power rituals, and they can never leave the realm of dread.  Indeed they are literally an extension of the mists.

Note taking that can be pretty funny when Azalin Rex or Strahd summons something with the Mist Descriptor, and Brother Maynard shows up.

~Rex  :twisted:



Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 10, 2007, 04:52:11 PM
 :lol: or dragrin   :lol: monk heh the new summon monsters :D
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Crule on February 10, 2007, 05:49:16 PM
Just figured I'd add this in here before taking something of a break for a few days.  It's from the Ravenloft DMG and it goes roughly:

Ascended Outsider's:  When a mortal's creature  type permanently changes to "outsider" (such as a 20th level Monk), the character is said to have ascended.  A NON-Neutral ascended outsider gains the type descriptors (Chaotic, Evil, Good, Lawful) matching it's ethical and moral alignment.  A lawful Evil Monk, would gain the Evil and Lawful descriptors, for example, and would thus, be considered a Fiend.  The reality wrinkles for Ascended fiends and Celestials, are half the radius (1,000 feet per HD) of those emitted by outsiders that were never mortal.

Native Outsider's:  Outsiders that were spawned within Ravenloft itself (such as most Ascended PCs) do not gain phylacteries; if destroyed their spiritual essence disperses into the mists.

The Mists Descriptor:  When a hero ascends to become and outsider within Ravenloft, she can take the Mists Descriptor if she wishes to (see Ravenloft Players handbook, Chapter Three, "Altered Majic" Conjuration).  In terms that would concern a PC, such outsiders can pass through any closed domain border without harm, but they do not gain reality wrinkles, they can not perform power rituals, and they can never leave the realm of dread.  Indeed they are literally an extension of the mists.

Note taking that can be pretty funny when Azalin Rex or Strahd summons something with the Mist Descriptor, and Brother Maynard shows up.

~Rex  :twisted:





Whoa.... now, without a lot of superflous commentary, spam and b-s,  what does this mean in layman's terms?  Blue or (ahem) EO?  You guys seem to have the firmest handle on things ruleset-vs-ravenloft...dumb this down for a brotha!    (And let's focus on the hypothetical Ravenloft universe, not necessary its implementation on POTM).

What is the "Mists Descriptor" ?  I read the article in the 3.0 rulebook and it didn't make sense to me.  "Charactesr containing the Mists descriptor ..." but it didn't define the descriptor and what it is.

Picked this tidbit up from Fraternity of Shadows:
Quote

# How do reality wrinkles work?

Reality wrinkles act as a miniature domain that covers and overlaps the existing land. An outsider with a reality wrinkle can walk right up to a darklord without confusion (as long as the lord permits them). On this often misunderstood ability, we will let Azalin from the lost �Ask Azalin� forum make his summary for us:

�An outsider receives a reality wrinkle if it has either the Good or the Evil descriptor and it does not have the Mists descriptor. An outsider loses its reality wrinkle if it "maxes out" its Corruption points (22+) or binds itself to a mortal (as in the case of outsider familiars). Once an outsider loses its reality wrinkle, it can fail powers checks and even become a darklord just like anyone else. (Mists outsiders are an exception; they never make powers check because they are simply a malign extension of Ravenloft's planar fabric.)

A mortal who uses magic or special abilities (aka, "mortal magic") to temporarily change his creature type to "outsider" does not gain a reality wrinkle. A mortal who permanently becomes an outsider as a class ability (such as a 20th-level monk) is considered to have "ascended" to true outsider status. Such a character gains any applicable alignment descriptors (Chaotic, Evil, Good, Lawful) and, if the ascended outsider gains either the Good or Evil descriptors, then the character does gain a reality wrinkle, just like a monk. The character is considered an outsider in all ways.

Evil outsiders (fiends) can perform power rituals and thus gain land-based powers. Good outsiders (celestials) can also perform power rituals, but they cannot gain land-based powers; all they accomplish is to reduce the size of their reality wrinkle. And yes, in the previous two paragraphs I am referring specifically to the alignment descriptors.�

Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 10, 2007, 06:01:47 PM
That tidbit from the Fraternity of Shadows explains it beautifully, actually. Even describes the "Mist Descriptor"  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Steley on March 06, 2007, 07:13:23 AM
On the subject of the glowing eyes they receive, I always thought it was just a visual effect implemented because they didn't become outsiders in NWN. If that is in fact the case, wouldn't it be sensible to ignore that part of their Perfect Self at least? But do correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: niapet on March 06, 2007, 08:49:35 AM
ummm epic monks get glowing eyes...not level 20 monks...so unless the cap has been raised to 21 dont worry about it..[/b]
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Ambrosios on March 06, 2007, 10:15:45 AM
ummm epic monks get glowing eyes...not level 20 monks...so unless the cap has been raised to 21 dont worry about it..[/b]

No, it's level 20 with 'Perfect Self' and the 20/+1 damage reduction when monks get the 'glowy eyes'.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Helaman on March 06, 2007, 11:18:30 PM
Can we get some gnarly graphix added to the character for that at 20th?

Otake is not headed in that direction but Wei might...
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on March 09, 2007, 09:49:48 PM
Can we get some gnarly graphix added to the character for that at 20th?

Otake is not headed in that direction but Wei might...
The game does that by default...you get glowing eyes. The color depends on your PC's alignment.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Weyland on January 03, 2017, 09:41:06 AM
Would love to have a custom walk button for monks that scales with movement speed from levels 3 through 18.  The current walk button doesn't normalize movement speed and so one can't walk along with a group at a matching pace.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Gilad Abrams on January 03, 2017, 08:11:37 PM
So now that we have a language system, do monks gain the ability of tounge of the moon and stars? After reading this thread I understand better about the reality wrinkle and it's RP and flavor value.
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: DrXavierTColtrane on January 04, 2017, 12:43:41 AM
So now that we have a language system, do monks gain the ability of tounge of the moon and stars? After reading this thread I understand better about the reality wrinkle and it's RP and flavor value.

It would be nice to do something to sweeten both monk level 13 and particularly 17.

At 13th a monk gets 1 added to ki strike and another hit die. That's it. It's a non-feat level. I don't know how many creatures in this setting are affected by +2 magic weapons versus those affected by +1, but it seems awfully puny considering how slow the levelling is at that point.

Then at 17th, a monk again gets one additional hit die. Nothing else, except the feat all other classes get.

(Mind you, 16th is a super level, but there's just not a lot of balance with 17th...which seems like a good level to do some enchanting. Except what would a monk enchant?)
Title: Re: 20th Level Monks and Ravenloft
Post by: Bluebomber4evr on February 14, 2017, 10:58:41 PM
Wow, talk about a necrobump! :P

Good point about the monk ability, I don't think anyone thought about it when we came up with the language system.

I'm not sure of the best way to implement it, but we can bring it up at the next developer's meeting.