I've always found it odd that NPCs can determine off the street the difference between Sorcerous and Wizardly magic, since the incantations and materials are generally the same. I always took the source material to mean that a magician found out (through skulking, rumor, etc) to not be using traditional wizardly studies would be distrusted.
I've always found it odd that NPCs can determine off the street the difference between Sorcerous and Wizardly magic, since the incantations and materials are generally the same. I always took the source material to mean that a magician found out (through skulking, rumor, etc) to not be using traditional wizardly studies would be distrusted.
I'm pretty sure the NPCs scream about casting magic without a book or scroll, which Wizards need..?
Magic. Can wizards publically say, I am a wizard?
Wizards are tolerated but looked down with disdain and a lack of respect. Magic is considered frivolous in Dementlieu and most Dementlieu mages are either enchanters or illusionists and specialize in stage magic and the likes. It's not taken seriously. Wizards are generally enchanters or illusionists - as these schools are the most appropriate for performance magic - but are not well respected.
Sorcerers on the other hand are looked with suspicion. While arcane magic learnt from a book is accepted, sorcerous powers arising in the untrained is considered abnormal, and such people are often forced into seclusion.
Magic. Can wizards publically say, I am a wizard?
Wizards are tolerated but looked down with disdain and a lack of respect. Magic is considered frivolous in Dementlieu and most Dementlieu mages are either enchanters or illusionists and specialize in stage magic and the likes. It's not taken seriously. Wizards are generally enchanters or illusionists - as these schools are the most appropriate for performance magic - but are not well respected.
Sorcerers on the other hand are looked with suspicion. While arcane magic learnt from a book is accepted, sorcerous powers arising in the untrained is considered abnormal, and such people are often forced into seclusion.
From reading that it seems that *any* display of arcane magic for purposes other than, say, entertainment would be viewed with suspicion. (And even for entertainment as something a little gauche.)
If the arcanist was discovered to achieve this magic through innate means, then the arcanist would be viewed with even more suspicion and perhaps as a little freakish ("abnormal").
From reading that it seems that *any* display of arcane magic for purposes other than, say, entertainment would be viewed with suspicion. (And even for entertainment as something a little gauche.)
If the arcanist was discovered to achieve this magic through innate means, then the arcanist would be viewed with even more suspicion and perhaps as a little freakish ("abnormal").
The point of contention however is that presently, wizards can cast their spells in front of NPCs in Port-a-Lucine without any sort of drawback but Sorcerers cannot. People seem to be curious why that is, since the (general/common) NPCs shouldn't really be able to tell the difference.
- Its also not the case that once "outed" that a sorcerer is forfeit of freedom in Dementlieu.
While arcane magic learnt from a book is accepted, sorcerous powers arising in the untrained is considered abnormal, and such people are often forced into seclusion.
Yes, Bards are in the same place as wizards currently which I think is what adds to the confusion. And I agree, the nature of the caster should have the most affect after the character is outed. If I had to make a wild guess I'd assume that as far as the OCR system is concerned (at least in Port-a-Lucine) it has nothing to do with spells being cast, the trigger is actually based on character class.From reading that it seems that *any* display of arcane magic for purposes other than, say, entertainment would be viewed with suspicion. (And even for entertainment as something a little gauche.)
If the arcanist was discovered to achieve this magic through innate means, then the arcanist would be viewed with even more suspicion and perhaps as a little freakish ("abnormal").
The point of contention however is that presently, wizards can cast their spells in front of NPCs in Port-a-Lucine without any sort of drawback but Sorcerers cannot. People seem to be curious why that is, since the (general/common) NPCs shouldn't really be able to tell the difference.
*nod* Understood (although the OP is about bards versus sorcs).
Regardless, from EO's post I would say it should have more to do with the use of the magic. The nature of the caster should come into play only if "outed."
If it where possible, I think changing it so ANY Arcane spell Level 3 or Higher should create a negative reaction, one can assume the spell would be more complex and alarming than the first two levels of spells
Like bards, sorcerers tend to attract attention, but (unlike bards) rarely of the positive kind. Where a wizard might hobble into town and seem little more than a weatherbeaten traveler, revealing his true nature only at his own discretion, a sorcerer tends not to remain anonymous for long, because his personal intensity and charisma draw the eye and linger in the memory. An indefinable but tangible difference often separates the sorcerer from the rest of the world - and when difference is sown, suspicion often grows.
Where a high noble might look to her court wizard for advice and scholarly insight into the doings of her rivals, sorcerers generally have little in the way of a wizard's formal education and training. Though most sorcerers rarely feel the need to find themselves a patron or to place themselves at a lord's disposal, those who do often find themselves regarded as more of an arcane weapon than a fount of knowledge, less suited to roles as counselor and tutor than as an elite bodyguard or highly valued special agent.
In the end, whether they are evil or good, most sorcerers simply choose to exist outside the normal circles of human society. Like elemental forces of nature, the most powerful sorcerers will never be directed, either by the concerns of the common folk or the commands of a king.
EO, your quote states the massive personality differences between the two prime arcane casters. It also details that sorcerers tend to draw more negative attention. But wouldn't that be due to how they act rather than being identified as a sorcerer on sight? In a land such as the Core, wouldn't hiding and practicing hiding things that are taboo be the norm for those that cross into the taboo? I'm just really struggling to understand how untrained generic civilians can tell the difference between spells that half the casting classes can cast.
How would generic noble be able to tell the difference between any of these classes and their methods of casting when the verbal and somatic components are the same globally? Sorcerers being outcasted in Port is all well and good. It's nice flavor. But there is no reasonable or logical reason why a spell being cast in public would suddenly oust them.
That quote explicitly says sorcerers can't really hide who they are; that players don't play that is not our fault. That magnetism, force of personality that makes them stand out makes people feel odd around them. It generates suspicion. It's clearly stated a sorcerer wouldn't hide it for long, even moreso if they cast in public. That's why they tend to avoid societies overall and are more loners.
This answers the question for me. I think perhaps this is where the most hangup lies as players here are often told not to imply their character is "special" or in some way more than what they appear to be, else it might fall in the realm of cheesing. This does answer why common NPCs may be suspicious, however.
Thanks for the response but my main question that i started the thread over was how bards and sorcerers are simmilar in both being innate casters but sorcerers are hated but bards are not . for example Bard is entertainer but if a sorcerer would be an entertainer too would port like him ?
I know this is a wild thought, but maybe a Sorcerer is fully aware of societal expectations and superstitions, so maybe with that incredible force of will, they use it to downplay their abilities and keep under the radar using disguises, and largely staying away from populated areas, as well as avoiding using their powers too much in front of people who can indeed tell the difference?
For the current OCR system to make absolute sense for individual PCs, it would require:
- Sorcerer and wizard casting to be different.
- Sorcerer and wizard casting to be sufficiently homogeneous that even the uneducated can tell them apart.
I will say that the NPCs outside Vallaki do roll Influence checks before being alarmed by OCR.
This is not the case in Port I believe? Can anyone verify?
An alternative thread could be started to discuss the merits of that - any ideas to improve the system should really be in it's own thread.
For the current OCR system to make absolute sense for individual PCs, it would require:
- Sorcerer and wizard casting to be different.
- Sorcerer and wizard casting to be sufficiently homogeneous that even the uneducated can tell them apart.
heterogeneous :)