Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist

Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Thundron on April 16, 2019, 12:30:07 AM

Title: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Thundron on April 16, 2019, 12:30:07 AM
Pack oxen and summoned creatures have been dropping off the party menu after going through transitions, and dominated animals need to be constantly told to follow to keep moving (if the character stops and then starts moving again, the animal will still be stopped in that place). Tried to read through the other notes; hope this isn't a repost. Thanks!

Thatís intentional. You must maintain a short distance from your pack animals, like having them on a leash. Otherwise you lose control.
Actually Pack ox have had hard Time following you to Dvergeheim Even pre patch. Getting them to follow you to mines or to sewers usully takes several attempts, but that is kind of reasonable.. there is also a way to ignore distance, which is useful If ox is stuck, so I dont think it should Even Be fixed.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Arawn on April 16, 2019, 08:04:35 AM
Quote
there is also a way to ignore distance, which is useful If ox is stuck, so I dont think it should Even Be fixed.

You mean an exploit?
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Thundron on April 16, 2019, 09:41:20 AM
Quote
there is also a way to ignore distance, which is useful If ox is stuck, so I dont think it should Even Be fixed.

You mean an exploit?
If you want to simplify.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Arawn on April 16, 2019, 09:48:28 AM
Quote
there is also a way to ignore distance, which is useful If ox is stuck, so I dont think it should Even Be fixed.

You mean an exploit?
If you want to simplify.

Bear in mind before you use this or any other helpful "tips" that if exploiting can and will lead to a ban.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Thundron on April 16, 2019, 10:15:01 AM
So when your ox is stuck you send pm to dm with screenshot and change character, wait for dm to refund you with new ox and items it was carrying. Causing lot of unnessesary work, rather than getting you of "unstuck" by yourself? This server would be pretty much unplayable If you wouldnt "exploit" things every now and then as there are only so many dms to fox things.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Arawn on April 16, 2019, 10:49:19 AM
So when your ox is stuck you send pm to dm with screenshot and change character, wait for dm to refund you with new ox and items it was carrying. Causing lot of unnessesary work, rather than getting you of "unstuck" by yourself? This server would be pretty much unplayable If you wouldnt "exploit" things every now and then as there are only so many dms to fox things.

Yes. Additionally, you could report any glitches that result in your ox getting stuck so permanently that you need to exploit to free it, so we can fix them.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Thundron on April 16, 2019, 10:58:47 AM
Does 10min walking Back and fort count as permanent? How Long IT would be be reasonable to try get unstuck? Ghakis mines for example there is Minecraft middle of corridor and maybe you have to position your ox right so it manages to walk past the cart. You also often have to strafe (bannable exploit) to get past the cart.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Arawn on April 16, 2019, 11:00:35 AM
Does 10min walking Back and fort count as permanent? How Long IT would be be reasonable to try get unstuck? Ghakis mines for example there is Minecraft middle of corridor and maybe you have to position your ox right so it manages to walk past the cart. You also often have to strafe (bannable exploit) to get past the cart.

Strafing by itself isn't an exploit.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Thundron on April 16, 2019, 11:15:53 AM

Does 10min walking Back and fort count as permanent? How Long IT would be be reasonable to try get unstuck? Ghakis mines for example there is Minecraft middle of corridor and maybe you have to position your ox right so it manages to walk past the cart. You also often have to strafe (bannable exploit) to get past the cart.

Strafing by itself isn't an exploit.
but IT IS superfast when you are on 2400/133 load..
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Thundron on April 16, 2019, 11:21:26 AM
Also If standing still to avoid fatigue exploit or clever use of game mechanical? I would like to see it as pacing your journey right, and sometimes it fails..
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Iridni Ren on April 16, 2019, 11:22:07 AM
I think Thundron means by "strafing" moving sideways when encumbered and thereby exceeding proper speed, which is considered an exploit.

?
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Arawn on April 16, 2019, 11:37:40 AM
Strafing to move through a tight spot--intended use of strafing.
Strafing for no legitimate reason to avoid encumbrance--exploit.

It's not complicated.

Also If standing still to avoid fatigue exploit or clever use of game mechanical? I would like to see it as pacing your journey right, and sometimes it fails..

Can you clarify what you mean here? I'm going to separate this into a second thread.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Edward on April 16, 2019, 11:48:34 AM
Also If standing still to avoid fatigue exploit or clever use of game mechanical? I would like to see it as pacing your journey right, and sometimes it fails..

I would imagine itís the same in real life, as running until youíre out of breath, stopping to get your breath back, then going again.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Iridni Ren on April 16, 2019, 12:22:09 PM
If you have the debugger on, you are able to time the exhaustion check. Not always, but you can often stop running right before it hits.

And knowing that it just passed, you can resume running.

(I think this is what Thundron refers to.)
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Arawn on April 16, 2019, 01:44:00 PM
If you have the debugger on, you are able to time the exhaustion check. Not always, but you can often stop running right before it hits.

And knowing that it just passed, you can resume running.

(I think this is what Thundron refers to.)

Yes, this is an exploit.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Hypatia on April 16, 2019, 02:37:05 PM
A question then; a few times, I've used strafing to move faster when carrying a body, but only because I was roleplaying with one of my companions to help carry the body. I grab the feet, they grab under the arms with the idea being together we cane move them faster. NWN doesn't allow you to share the load but this seemed legitimate and roleplayed. Would that be valid?
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Arawn on April 16, 2019, 02:50:11 PM
A question then; a few times, I've used strafing to move faster when carrying a body, but only because I was roleplaying with one of my companions to help carry the body. I grab the feet, they grab under the arms with the idea being together we cane move them faster. NWN doesn't allow you to share the load but this seemed legitimate and roleplayed. Would that be valid?

Exploit.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Hypatia on April 16, 2019, 03:23:44 PM
would it possible to have an option to have two people carry one then? like a text option?
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: ladylena on April 16, 2019, 04:34:58 PM
If you have the debugger on, you are able to time the exhaustion check. Not always, but you can often stop running right before it hits.

And knowing that it just passed, you can resume running.

(I think this is what Thundron refers to.)

Yes, this is an exploit.

How is this an exploit? I don't understand to me running-stopping-waiting-running again doesn't seem like an exploit, we get a text message that says you are starting to feel exhausted.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Arawn on April 16, 2019, 04:47:58 PM
If you have the debugger on, you are able to time the exhaustion check. Not always, but you can often stop running right before it hits.

And knowing that it just passed, you can resume running.

(I think this is what Thundron refers to.)

Yes, this is an exploit.

How is this an exploit? I don't understand to me running-stopping-waiting-running again doesn't seem like an exploit, we get a text message that says you are starting to feel exhausted.

We're not talking about stopping and waiting for a minute when you're exhausted; rather, this is stopping for a split second to let exhaustion tick over, every tick.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Edward on April 16, 2019, 05:11:38 PM
If you have the debugger on, you are able to time the exhaustion check. Not always, but you can often stop running right before it hits.

And knowing that it just passed, you can resume running.

(I think this is what Thundron refers to.)

Yes, this is an exploit.

How is this an exploit? I don't understand to me running-stopping-waiting-running again doesn't seem like an exploit, we get a text message that says you are starting to feel exhausted.

We're not talking about stopping and waiting for a minute when you're exhausted; rather, this is stopping for a split second to let exhaustion tick over, every tick.

Anything that isn't normally supposed to be done or something that you abuse like an OOC Debug message is an exploit, whether it be using bugs on the server or general issues with the engine, it is an exploit whether you know it or not so from my own experience it's probably best to make sure it isn't if it seems out of place or unusual.

There's nothing wrong with asking anyone if it is or not. Just make sure you're asking the right people who should know when you do.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: ladylena on April 16, 2019, 06:39:38 PM
If you have the debugger on, you are able to time the exhaustion check. Not always, but you can often stop running right before it hits.

And knowing that it just passed, you can resume running.

(I think this is what Thundron refers to.)

Yes, this is an exploit.

How is this an exploit? I don't understand to me running-stopping-waiting-running again doesn't seem like an exploit, we get a text message that says you are starting to feel exhausted.

We're not talking about stopping and waiting for a minute when you're exhausted; rather, this is stopping for a split second to let exhaustion tick over, every tick.

Ahh, I never use the debug it just clutters the chat IMO. Thanks for the clarity
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Ard on April 17, 2019, 12:10:57 AM
Is setting a bedroll to rest in it an exploit? I assume yes as you know it'll recover you more hp.

Also is running outside or to the previous area while in dungeon , to rest, is an exploit? You do it by knowing mob AI behavoir and to prevent getting ambushed while in rest/unbuffed/unprepared so i assume it is but would need a confirmation.

Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Thundron on April 17, 2019, 12:12:04 AM
If you have the debugger on, you are able to time the exhaustion check. Not always, but you can often stop running right before it hits.

And knowing that it just passed, you can resume running.

(I think this is what Thundron refers to.)
Yea, I wonder how much it saves time, If you are able to perfectly time the fatigue check compared to just keep moving max slowed.. But I feel If carrying 1000lb gives you 100 fatigue per check, and 2400 only does the same, carrying such load feels exploit on it's own, but hey super OP clerics can just freedom of movement it.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Ard on April 17, 2019, 12:13:51 AM
If you have the debugger on, you are able to time the exhaustion check. Not always, but you can often stop running right before it hits.

And knowing that it just passed, you can resume running.

(I think this is what Thundron refers to.)
Yea, I wonder how much it saves time, If you are able to perfectly time the fatigue check compared to just keep moving max slowed.. But I feel If carrying 1000lb gives you 100 fatigue per check, and 2400 only does the same, carrying such load feels exploit on it's own, but hey super OP clerics can just freedom of movement it.

Isn't using freedom of movement to avoid encumbering an exploit aswell? Think about it....you're using it to avoid the weight ...
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Thundron on April 17, 2019, 12:15:29 AM
If you have the debugger on, you are able to time the exhaustion check. Not always, but you can often stop running right before it hits.

And knowing that it just passed, you can resume running.

(I think this is what Thundron refers to.)

Yes, this is an exploit.
So turning debugger off makes it ok? What purposes debugger serves?
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Thundron on April 17, 2019, 12:20:09 AM
If you have the debugger on, you are able to time the exhaustion check. Not always, but you can often stop running right before it hits.

And knowing that it just passed, you can resume running.

(I think this is what Thundron refers to.)

Yes, this is an exploit.

How is this an exploit? I don't understand to me running-stopping-waiting-running again doesn't seem like an exploit, we get a text message that says you are starting to feel exhausted.

We're not talking about stopping and waiting for a minute when you're exhausted; rather, this is stopping for a split second to let exhaustion tick over, every tick.
Perhaps you should try jogging to figure this out. Second for you is still 10 seconds for you character right?
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Thundron on April 17, 2019, 12:34:17 AM
Is setting a bedroll to rest in it an exploit? I assume yes as you know it'll recover you more hp.

Also is running outside or to the previous area while in dungeon , to rest, is an exploit? You do it by knowing mob AI behavoir and to prevent getting ambushed while in rest/unbuffed/unprepared so i assume it is but would need a confirmation.
I would imagine.
Also making campfire during rain is exploit. Engine cant understand Wood is wet. Also using stealth on open area during Day especially is exploit cause it's impossible IRL.

But Wizard backing a House on his bag and polymorphing into umberhulk or something is fine, cause rules say all your stuff just mends in.

Sad really that rules prevents clever roleplaying.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Iridni Ren on April 17, 2019, 12:41:40 AM
Debugging is useful to see whether exhaustion is working as it should and why you are becoming exhausted.

Otherwise, if an effect is deliberately programmed in, it is not an exploit. An exploit is misusing an effect for how it isn't intended (the debugger). Or taking advantage of a bug or system limitation to do things your PC shouldn't be able to (such as the encumbered strafing described earlier).

Exhaustion would be continuous, but do you really want the server to be weighed down by that kind of check? So it checks periodically. And if your PC rests for one second, then that's not really sufficient rest to get rid of exhaustion.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: SardineTheAncestor on April 17, 2019, 01:32:20 AM
I would imagine.
Also making campfire during rain is exploit. Engine cant understand Wood is wet. Also using stealth on open area during Day especially is exploit cause it's impossible IRL.

But Wizard backing a House on his bag and polymorphing into umberhulk or something is fine, cause rules say all your stuff just mends in.

Sad really that rules prevents clever roleplaying.

You can make a campfire in the pouring rain in real life. It is a basic survival skill.

You cannot, however, carry 2400lbs. in real life, and trust me, there is no Cleric player right now leveling up to get rich off deliveries via Freedom of Movement, nor will there ever be. It would be a complete waste of time anyway when at that level they're already a highly sought after support class with several unique spells.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Edward on April 17, 2019, 02:07:29 AM
I would imagine.
Also making campfire during rain is exploit. Engine cant understand Wood is wet. Also using stealth on open area during Day especially is exploit cause it's impossible IRL.

But Wizard backing a House on his bag and polymorphing into umberhulk or something is fine, cause rules say all your stuff just mends in.

Sad really that rules prevents clever roleplaying.

You can make a campfire in the pouring rain in real life. It is a basic survival skill.

You cannot, however, carry 2400lbs. in real life, and trust me, there is no Cleric player right now leveling up to get rich off deliveries via Freedom of Movement, nor will there ever be. It would be a complete waste of time anyway when at that level they're already a highly sought after support class with several unique spells.

Not like freedom of movement actually does anything for weight, from what I know thatís fixed.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Thundron on April 17, 2019, 02:32:56 AM
I would imagine.
Also making campfire during rain is exploit. Engine cant understand Wood is wet. Also using stealth on open area during Day especially is exploit cause it's impossible IRL.

But Wizard backing a House on his bag and polymorphing into umberhulk or something is fine, cause rules say all your stuff just mends in.

Sad really that rules prevents clever roleplaying.

You can make a campfire in the pouring rain in real life. It is a basic survival skill.

You cannot, however, carry 2400lbs. in real life, and trust me, there is no Cleric player right now leveling up to get rich off deliveries via Freedom of Movement, nor will there ever be. It would be a complete waste of time anyway when at that level they're already a highly sought after support class with several unique spells.
Not sure how unique spells there are for lvl5 cleric, but yea it doesnt really help much, but people use (have used atleast) for carrying Ore. Perhaps it functions differently now and allows you to Be slowed down by encumberance, only preventing those last two steppes of fatigue, not sure. So is there weight Limit to Be exploit? And well, you can "carry" atleast 30000lb irl
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Nemesis 24 on April 17, 2019, 04:20:13 AM
This thread is well on its way to being locked.  While some people have been helpful in seeking and getting useful clarification, there is clearly some pedantic petulance going on as well.  Lets keep it to common sense while making some things clear at the same time.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Thundron on April 17, 2019, 05:04:59 AM
Debugging is useful to see whether exhaustion is working as it should and why you are becoming exhausted.

Otherwise, if an effect is deliberately programmed in, it is not an exploit. An exploit is misusing an effect for how it isn't intended (the debugger). Or taking advantage of a bug or system limitation to do things your PC shouldn't be able to (such as the encumbered strafing described earlier).

Exhaustion would be continuous, but do you really want the server to be weighed down by that kind of check? So it checks periodically. And if your PC rests for one second, then that's not really sufficient rest to get rid of exhaustion.
Would Be amazing to get -100 exhaustion on second.. I dont think you get that Even on hour, except If you use rest, which is kinda exploit, as it only takes minute?
But IRL lets say I run for 5min and get exhausted, I walk 10s and become slightly exhausted, and can run again 5min..
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Edward on April 17, 2019, 06:02:52 AM
This has devolved into trying to justify exploiting rather than what the topic name suggests. Although no one really seems to have an issue it’s obvious what an exploit is by now.
Title: Re: What counts as an exploit?
Post by: Arawn on April 17, 2019, 06:33:59 AM
This has devolved into trying to justify exploiting rather than what the topic name suggests. Although no one really seems to have an issue itís obvious what an exploit is by now.

Indeed; therefore, I think weíre finished.

Remember, folks, exploiting will get you banned.