Being a part of the RVT, I get exposed to a lot of equipment. So much equipment that many people aren't even aware of or would notice them being changed like the following two disclosed below. All too often a RVT gets to experience the unique pleasure of having loot that is extra fat only to become literally worthless by the secret workshop of balancing gnomes meticulously working away.
e.g;Spoiler: show
This is actually a decent blade despite the drawbacks present. With AC and discipline being coveted, especially when you would probably use this in PvP it strikes a balance that is perfect to customers. It'd take awhile, but I could probably sell this for 6k. Maybe more.
So you have two of them in your inventory and you're happy you're about to make 12k, but then suddenly there's a stealth nerf.
I present you exhibit B:Spoiler: show
-3 AC
-4 Dsicipline
On hit: Lesser dispelling DC-12.
Drops in Sithicus
This blade is officially unsellable without any hint of exaggeration. This would quickly join the giant pile of vendor trash that you'd see in Blaustein.
While Casglu'r itself could use a buff, I'd also like to extend this topic out to the rest of the loot because I think it's quickly going in one direction and there's only a few bits of worthwhile loot left, notably rogue gear, and crafted equipment. I'm all for crafting professions to be relevant, but it's quickly overshadowing the loot drops we have currently because the drops itself are pathetic and with so much drawbacks it isn't worthwhile.
e.g.;Spoiler: show
I'm not at all recommending you nerf crafted gear. In fact, far from it, I think the drops and the items themselves could use tweaking and be a bit more generous but I'm insulated by similar opinions and people that typically sell as well and I'd like the rest of your opinions to see if you share my sentiments. Could loot tables, in your opinion, use tweaking? Maybe a developer could tell us what it's like on paper as well and explain why they think it's fine as is.
I think some more items in the Item Request Discussion Thread were on the way for the hack update...
Is it too soon to re-open the whole Vestments of Faith thing? They went from being +5/5 (overpowered) to +3/5 (still just as overpowered at low level, but increasingly useless at higher levels) and none of the compromised solutions were heeded.
I find myself sticking to only a specific array of items whenever I make a new char. Almost everything else has massive drawbacks that it's exactly what Nem mentioned - vendor trash.Depending on your build/class, there are 1-3 items for each accessory/equipment slot that are best in slot. These are typically the items people reserve for auctions, in addition to the legacy items that still exist from previous nerfs. And with how loot tables are generated, there are a lot of items that are genuinely nice/average items to find as a lower level character, but they only drop from high level dungeons due to their price (The old ranger's lore belt, as an example, 1st level wizard spells for rangers as as a 15th+ level dungeon reward? And the only spell on the item that even matters is invisibility)
Vestments of Faith is still the best looted cloak on the server, its just not hyper-broken overpowered with the 5/+3 nerf.
You're not the only one, fear not.Vestments of Faith is still the best looted cloak on the server, its just not hyper-broken overpowered with the 5/+3 nerf.
I'd argue the Black Rose cloak is better, but that's just opinion. This doesn't address any of the issues raised, now or then. And I feel vindicated that the prediction I made about the Vestments becoming a hand-me-down item have become true AFAIK.
Let's take the Casglu'r Tywill blade. The foremost problem of the original blade was its automatic "Lesser Spell Breach level 1" on hit, no DC. As explained in the Item suggestion thread, On-Hit: Cast Spell effects can cause performance issues. Most spells were designed under the assumption that a character could cast at most two spells in a round. When it is triggered on-hit, however, a spell can be cast much more often, potentially twelve times per round. The newer version of the blade still has an on hit property, but with a reasonable DC so it does not trigger on every hit. Even with its defensive penalties, it remains an enchanted blade, dealing extra divine damage, and with the potential to dispel foes. So I much disagree with your stance that it is useless.
[...]
Considering this blade can only be found in Sithicus, in the Salt Mines, which means you need to get an absurdly powerful group of lvl 17+ people, yes, the sword is useless. It will never be used by anyone high than lvl 12, since it will have no effect against those they will be using it against. And I'm not even talking about the negatives here, only about the actual bonus of the sword, which is suppose to make it a niche weapon.
There is nothing wrong in finding a low or mid-tier item and sell it back to lower levels. That is in itself a use for any item. Nor that's its general power absolutely has to correlate with the difficulty of the place it was found in.
Fair enough. If I may venture, the message I am reading between the lines of your post and MAB's seems to distill to, "Only enchanted gear can be that powerful, because only enchanted gear can bypass the 8000gp value rule."
I still think some of the gear dropped could be more smoothly balanced across all levels if there's much leeway in designing them.
I think that if there is a problem with creating items that fit the gold value cap and there is a lack of proper rewards for high level characters then perhaps the gold value cap needs to be raised slightly. Enchanted gear is nice but it's available at the mid level range. I do not feel that gear available at mid level should be the be all end all of high level gear, personally. That is not what I would consider balance.
Alternatively, perhaps the solution is to make some of the high level gear that does exist less rare than it currently is. At least then the options would be less stagnant than they currently are.
I think that if there is a problem with creating items that fit the gold value cap and there is a lack of proper rewards for high level characters then perhaps the gold value cap needs to be raised slightly. Enchanted gear is nice but it's available at the mid level range. I do not feel that gear available at mid level should be the be all end all of high level gear, personally. That is not what I would consider balance.
Alternatively, perhaps the solution is to make some of the high level gear that does exist less rare than it currently is. At least then the options would be less stagnant than they currently are.
But is there even a real problem to address here? Because I don't see it. This is not Diablo or other hack and slash games where the sole real goal is ever to acquire fatter and bigger loot as to grind XP more easily. This a roleplay server, and though we certainly catter to a wide variety of play style, hack & slashers included, emphasis on one's equipment should never be that important. I'm an old timer now, with over 30 years of RPG experience, I have never ever seen a single instance where the inclusion of more powerful gear was an improvement to a game.
As for your 30 years of experience, with all due respect, we are playing a game that closely mimics a tabletop roleplaying game in which dungeoning and acquiring better gear and neat treasure as well as experience points to become better and stronger heroes is - very much objectively so - a part of the core element of the game. It is entirely possibly that yours (or other peoples) experience with DnD was different, but that is absolutely an exception to the widely agreed upon way the game was meant to be played.
I'd like nicer things..
As for your 30 years of experience, with all due respect, we are playing a game that closely mimics a tabletop roleplaying game in which dungeoning and acquiring better gear and neat treasure as well as experience points to become better and stronger heroes is - very much objectively so - a part of the core element of the game. It is entirely possibly that yours (or other peoples) experience with DnD was different, but that is absolutely an exception to the widely agreed upon way the game was meant to be played.
I think the two of you are talking about two slightly different things. Yes, all DnD involves "dungeoning and acquiring better gear and neat treasure," but also look at the second part of what you said: "as well as experience points to become better and stronger heroes."
We're capped at 20th level. Likewise, MAB is saying top-level gear is capped. If either of those keeps increasing, it becomes difficult to provide a challenge to high levels.
It's presumed once you max on level and equipment...you'll eventually closure your PC. Or if not, you'll stick around for RP only. The server isn't designed (and there aren't humans around) to keep supplying new content for higher and higher levels.
Depending on your build/class, there are 1-3 items for each accessory/equipment slot that are best in slot. These are typically the items people reserve for auctions, in addition to the legacy items that still exist from previous nerfs. And with how loot tables are generated, there are a lot of items that are genuinely nice/average items to find as a lower level character, but they only drop from high level dungeons due to their price (The old ranger's lore belt, as an example, 1st level wizard spells for rangers as as a 15th+ level dungeon reward? And the only spell on the item that even matters is invisibility)
I've always been unsure why there have been some items that got nerfed and all versions were updated, and other items were nerfed but the legacy items still exist. Those legacy items tend to show up as donkey-trade later down the road.
EO answered me about this in discord before, stating that it was intentional, and not an EE change. If I recall correctly, it was said the devs made this change as they felt spell slot gear was entirely too common, so they lowered the drop rate on things. I could be be wrong in what I recall of the conversation, as it was many months ago.
If you need more spells in your party, hire another caster - then you have lots more spellslots.
Keep in mind that on POTM we have a very low "maximum value" for loot, which is 8000 + item's base price (ex: a full plate's total cost couldn't be over 9500). In the last hak update, which is about three years ago, we tweaked the cost values of various properties that were not balanced, which raised the cost of many items above the threshold. That was a problem with many Sithican items, which I had to then readjust to be below the 8000gp limit.
In any case, it's fairly complicated to balance items within that cost range. To give you an idea, most items in the NwN single player campaign are worth hundreds of thousands of gold pieces. As soon as you start adding funky properties such as on hit properties, the cost jumps up immensely, so to balance it out price-wise, you have to add quite a few negatives.
If there is any reason that might influence a second look at current spellslot itemization, I think it would be that the fix for Divine casters getting spells "early" makes those items much less oppressively powerful than they were.