Patron deity: A divine champion must have a patron deity, and it must be the one he serves as divine champion.
In what I've read for PnP, Evil aligned DCs get smite good. However, I do not know if this can come through on NWN, so you would need to check with a DM, since there is smite evil for paladins, but I'm not sure if there is smite good for blackguards for this game.According to the POTM Wikia, Blackguard does get Smite Good at level 2. And Divine Champion gets Smite Evil at level 3 (which, well...it'd be nice if evil DCs got Smite Good).
Why should it be automatically "smite good" for an evil divine champion? There are many forms of evil, and some Faiths, although evil themselves are in a crusade against some other kind of evil. A lawful evil follower of the Lawgiver is by far more likely to have issues with a chaotic evil foe than a lawful good one.Then call it "Smite Infidel" or "Smite Heretic" or something. For example: http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Smite_infidel
Why should it be automatically "smite good" for an evil divine champion? There are many forms of evil, and some Faiths, although evil themselves are in a crusade against some other kind of evil. A lawful evil follower of the Lawgiver is by far more likely to have issues with a chaotic evil foe than a lawful good one.Then call it "Smite Infidel" or "Smite Heretic" or something. For example: http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Smite_infidel
Divine Champion is a broad stroke class, not one specific to a certain deity (unlike "Divine Champion of Torm").
Then call it "Smite Infidel" or "Smite Heretic" or something. For example: http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Smite_infidel
Divine Champion is a broad stroke class, not one specific to a certain deity (unlike "Divine Champion of Torm").
There isn't any need to change it's name though, an evil aligned character can have use of smite Evil.Currently, ALL Divine Champions, regardless of alignment, have "Smite Evil". I don't think that makes sense. Naming aside, if you clicked the link for "Smite Infidel", the actual mechanics of the ability are that it smites a target whose alignment differ from the Divine Champion's alignment.
When used against a creature that is not evil (hostile creatures are not necessarily evil), smite evil is wasted. This is reported to the player as "failed" (as opposed to "hit" or "miss").Was that aspect of it changed on POTM? If not, that's actually the whole issue, in my mind.
No, you can't be a divine champion of the Divinity of Mankind philosophy. They hold an ideal from which they draw great strength, but ultimately serve no one else but themselves in their path to "enlightenment".
No, you can't be a divine champion of the Divinity of Mankind philosophy. They hold an ideal from which they draw great strength, but ultimately serve no one else but themselves in their path to "enlightenment".
Does this mean that oriental (kata-tur) type character cannot become divine champions? From wizards.com (3.5e):Spoiler: show
The named deity system is very eurocentric, i think there should be room to roleplay other religious belief systems without that locking you out of certain classes. Otherwise we will only end up forced to pick some deity just to get that class :(
And while some may (rightfully) argue that the Dark Powers can make anything possible, remember that it is not how they work. The Dark Powers are a tool to be used solely by the DMs. As a player you cannot use them to justify anything that would not normally be allowed by the rules.
Also, if you follow the teachings and dogma of your specific deity, you are furthering their cause, even if he or she is not granting you the powers to do so.
The prestige class description is crystal clear, Divine Champions are holy servants of a deity or group of deities. As such to have a patron deity is the most important requirement to obtain the class.
Yes, this means you can even be a divine champion of false deities empowered by the Dark Powers (such as Zhakata), or nameless ones such as the deities of the Eternal Order. No, you can't be a divine champion of the Divinity of Mankind philosophy. They hold an ideal from which they draw great strength, but ultimately serve no one else but themselves in their path to "enlightenment".
The Dark Powers are a tool to be used solely by the DMs. As a player you cannot use them to justify anything that would not normally be allowed by the rules.
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Furthermore. When a cleric's Alignment or actions deviate from the Alignment of their Deity, usually they'd be cut off. Not so in Ravenloft. A cleric, paladin or divine champion in the Demiplane of Dread continues to receive spells, and by extension, the 'approval' from their deity, 'validating' their skewed or perverted dogma.
[...]
Furthermore. When a cleric's Alignment or actions deviate from the Alignment of their Deity, usually they'd be cut off. Not so in Ravenloft. A cleric, paladin or divine champion in the Demiplane of Dread continues to receive spells, and by extension, the 'approval' from their deity, 'validating' their skewed or perverted dogma.
Hold on, let's clarify something important here. Clerics and Paladins losing their ways WILL lose their abilities the exact same way as in any other D&D settings. Exceptions are only possible if a DM allows it.
Now, deviations from one's church orthodoxy is certainly allowed and encouraged. IMHO it should be a natural roleplay result of the isolation from the Powers imposed in the demiplane, but you must always be careful to remain within the alignments allowed by your deity, or to remain lawful good in the case of a paladin.
Granted the game engine make it so you'd still be able to use the spells and abilities mechanically, but you should not do so before consulting a DM first. You may be asked to forgo the use of your divine abilities for a little while. This is common for cleric players switching deities for instance.
A Divine Champion dedicates themself to the service of their deity and deity's cause. They are an especially devout servant, who receives boons from their deity as a reward.
What Divine Champions are not, is Divine Agents. Divine Agents are another PRC entirely. They are hand-picked by their deity to do their bidding in the world of mortals. Perhaps this is what you are thinking of.
But in the end, it depends on what the character thinks he is, not what he really is, right?
That's the whole point of morality in Ravenloft.
If a lawful good paladin became a lawful evil zealot, but doesn't realize it, he shouldn't lose his abilities. After all, he THINKS he is still lawful good, and losing his powers would tip him off, and screw the point of moral corruption in Ravenloft.
You step out of bound, you need DM approval.
He can rationalize the lost of his powers any way he want, see it as a test or otherwise, but he would still lose his paladin powers the moment he ceases to be lawful good.
The Dark powers can and do act as surrogates. In fact, many of our core spells and abilities functional entirely different to cease all together simply because of the fact that this is Ravenloft.
Just how strict is the Favored Weapon thing? Mine happens to be heavy mace, but I have been told that no heavy mace can be crafted here. That is a very heavy deterrent to picking a martial prestige class. I had hoped to just pick hammer.
Just how strict is the Favored Weapon thing? Mine happens to be heavy mace, but I have been told that no heavy mace can be crafted here. That is a very heavy deterrent to picking a martial prestige class. I had hoped to just pick hammer.
The Unspoken Pact only prevents gods from acting directly on the Demiplane, for all practical purpose they are still (probably) the ones granting abilities to their clerics and paladins. The Dark Powers would likely only fill in for darklord candidate individuals.
What I'm hung up on is the phrase "patron deity" because what it makes me think of is patron saint.
"the protecting or guiding saint of a person or place"
A patron deity then would protect or guide the DC.
Also, the feats do imply a degree of being the deity's agent ("divine wrath" for example). I mean, if the DC is not doing what the deity wants, can't the deity withhold all those special boons?
Looking at those I would consider to be DCs in world religions, I think of someone like David in the Old Testament. Or Hector in Greek mythology. (In the Iliad Apollo infuses Hector with strength.)
Having only read about this class in the last month and a half, I'm not saying I know what it is. I'm trying to understand what it is. Plus, what it is in this setting.
I think you're overthinking it.
Patron deity uses 'patron' in the sense of 'sponsor'. The deity 'sponsors' the Divine Champion with boons and benefits.
An agent undertakes tasks on the behalf their master, or acts as their proxy. This is not what the Divine Champion does.
After removing Saul, [God] made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.'
In Unarmed Strike, yes.
Given that the Divinity of Mankind is Paridon's only major religion and that it's highly organized, it seems sensible that they might maintain a few warriors who've coaxed out some divine power from the godlike nature of the human soul. However, a divine champion who follows a personal philosophical creed seems more out of a place. Likewise, divine champions coming from Ravenloft's three confirmed fake religions would be a bit odd, I think.