Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist

Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Deceit on October 02, 2016, 10:49:52 PM

Title: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Deceit on October 02, 2016, 10:49:52 PM
Item request thread: http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=44496.0

Hey everyone... got an opinion on (a) requested item(s)?  Bring it here to discuss...
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Miuo on October 03, 2016, 04:21:40 PM
For the item suggestion thread, can the newer suggestions be moved to the new thread? The last page or so?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on October 06, 2016, 02:36:47 AM
For the item suggestion thread, can the newer suggestions be moved to the new thread? The last page or so?

No need. The old thread is still accessible. It may be locked, but all submissions will still be reviewed by the dev staff.  You can still comment about these suggestions here as well.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on October 06, 2016, 04:07:37 AM
Dumas, for your latest suggestions, I really like the effort you put in to give some bits of Ravenloft lore in their backgrounds, but I'm unconvinced they'd be good additions as they are now. Bear in mind though that this is only my personal opinion, not necessarily that of the staff. But my main concern when desiging a good Ravenloftian item, is that it must have both bonuses and penalties applicable at the moment you use the item.

For instance, your "Cameo of Glamour" is obviously an item that would only ever be used in roleplay situations. Giving it penalties applicable only in battles renders those penalties moot. I'd give it a penalty on some other skills instead, I'm thinking both appraise and spot, as the glamour's magic tends to hide the true nature of things, so would the wearer abilities to perceive the true nature of things be affected in some ways too. I also see no need for an item that casts "Charm Person" to have influence bonuses. You want the amulet's special properties to be used after all. But the glamour could help for performances and such. Note too that were not too keen on "uses by day" items, it tends to make those items immensely powerful compared to others. You'll have better chances of seeing items added in with "charges per use". Not that a "use by day" item can't be added, but be sure to have a severe drawback to bite back the user. This is Ravenloft, nothing of power should be without consequences.

So for your Cameo of Glamour, I,d see more something along the lines of : Charm Person (10) [5 charge per use, 50 charges], +2 perform, -2 appraise, -2 spot. That seems more balanced to me.

Similarly your Lightless halberd is a formidable weapon without formidable defensive hindrances. The kind that would make it the only halberd, halberd users would want to use. That's not what we aim for. I would have it with heavy penalties to at least 2 of the following: Discipline, Parry, Tumble or AC.

And your "Dementlieuse Boarding Axe" has 4 perks, for a single +10 pound weight. Granted its not a powerful weapon per say, so it's not a big deal, but I'd add some penalties to Discipline, Parry, Tumble or AC as well to counterbalance.

About the ring of oath, both clerics and paladins already have items granting bonus spells slots. I doubt we need more of those. But let say we do add them, what offsetting penalties do you propose?

I like the idea of your Vos Boyarsky Boar Spear, (we need more vorostokov stuff), but weapons should not grant AC bonuses. I'd say we drop the AC bonuses and Parry penalties, and reduce the tumble penalty to -3. That would be fair enough I think.

As for your ring of agony, it is really just way too powerful I think. Combine 2 of those with an Heart of Ice amulet and you get +14 to your will saves. For penalties that rarely ever affects the wearer, except sometimes for the fortitude penalty which should technically be higher than the Will bonuses in this case (Always following the logic that in Ravenloft uber items have even bigger penalties).

For the Waraji of the Lost Hero, we already have some boots granting reflex bonuses, and freedom of movement is easy enough to get through other items. I just don't see the purpose of adding them.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Pav on October 06, 2016, 08:47:08 AM
About the ring of oath, both clerics and paladins already have items granting bonus spells slots. I doubt we need more of those. But let say we do add them, what offsetting penalties do you propose?

There is one item for Paladins, last I have heard and seen. This ring could be just for paladins, instead. Not the original poster but those are my two cents.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Dumas on October 06, 2016, 11:53:40 AM
Thanks for the Feedback, Mabb. Yeah, my primary focus started out with adding some more Ravenloftian lore items to the sever; it took me quite some time to figure out such backgrounds. I took your advice on my suggested items, and modified the statistics accordingly. They make sense, yes. Totally forgot about the stacking ability of the Agony rings with the Heart of Ice and themselves. I increased the Fortitude penalty, and decreased the Will bonus for those. I also slightly changed the description for the Waraji, and changed them to offer a Bear's Endurance buff, which I don't think any other item adds. We have Fox's Cunning and Cat's Grace items, but not Bears.


Item Name: Cameo of Glamour
Statistics:
Cast Spell : Charm Person (10) [5 Charges/Uses] 50 charges
Skill Bonus: Perform [+2]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Spot [-2]
Material [Bone]
Material [Leather]
Material [Wood, Hemlock]
Total Item Cost: 251


Item Name: Lightless Halberd
Statistics:
Damage Bonus: Negative Energy [1d4 Damage]
Enhancement Bonus vs. Racial Group: Shapechanger [+2]
Massive Criticals [2d4 Damage]
Decreased AC : AC Dodge Modifier [-1]
Decreased Skill Modifier: Parry [-5]
Decreased Skill Modifier: Tumble [-5]
Material [Steel]
Material [Wood, Hickory]
Total Item Cost: 1390


Item Name: Waraji of the Lost Hero
Statistics:
Cast Spell : Bear's Endurance (3) [5 Charges/Use] 25 charges
Decreased Skill Modifier : Move Silently [-4]
Material [Cord]
Material [Bark]
Total Item Cost: 564


Item Name:  Dementlieuse Boarding Axe
Statistics:
Enhancement Bonus vs. Racial Group : Constructs [+1]
Extra Melee Damage Type : Bludgeoning
Massive Criticals: [1d6 Damage]
Decreased AC : AC Deflection Modifier [-1]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Discipline [-2]
Weight Increase [Amount: 10 lbs.]
Material [Iron]
Material [Wood, Teak]
Total Item Cost: 1584


Item Name: Vos Boyarsky Bear Spear
Statistics:
Enhancement Bonus vs. Racial Group : Animal [+1]
Enhancement Bonus vs. Racial Group : Beast [+1]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Tumble [-3]
Material [Iron]
Material [Wood, Ash]
Total Item Cost: 632


Item Name: Ring of Agony
Statistics:
Damage Resistance : Sonic [Resist 5 / - ]
Increased Saving Throw Bonus : Specific Will [+1]
Skill Bonus : Antagonize [+3]
Decreased Saving Throws : Specific : Fortitude [-2]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Disable Trap [-5]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Open Lock [-5]
Material [Chitin]
Total Item Cost:1487
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on October 06, 2016, 03:45:13 PM
About the ring of oath, both clerics and paladins already have items granting bonus spells slots. I doubt we need more of those. But let say we do add them, what offsetting penalties do you propose?

There is one item for Paladins, last I have heard and seen. This ring could be just for paladins, instead. Not the original poster but those are my two cents.

The thing is, 2 of those rings plus the already existing bracers would theoretically allow a level 2 paladin to already cast 3 level 1 spells. This is a huge power bump and then other players will want equivalents for their own spellcasting classes. I'd rather not have more bonus spell slots items added.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Nemesis 24 on October 06, 2016, 05:40:18 PM
Actually they have to be level 4.  They don't get any spellcasting abilities till then, I believe, spell slots or no.  I think.  Hrm.  Suddenly I have a doubt.

Personally I'd like to see a level 3 or stretching it even to a 4 spell slot item for paladins, but that's pure greed - but also I admit a bit of end game loot.  There's some room for some of that sort of thing I think, but it'd have to be nearly impossibly rare for it to make it in at all.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: peps on October 06, 2016, 06:38:29 PM
Actually they have to be level 4.  They don't get any spellcasting abilities till then, I believe, spell slots or no.  I think.  Hrm.  Suddenly I have a doubt.

Personally I'd like to see a level 3 or stretching it even to a 4 spell slot item for paladins, but that's pure greed - but also I admit a bit of end game loot.  There's some room for some of that sort of thing I think, but it'd have to be nearly impossibly rare for it to make it in at all.

Yeah, level 1 or 2 spells aren't that great. The best spells are holy sword, shackle, restoration, and prayer. The only good multi-use of the 1 and 2 spells is clarity.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Nemesis 24 on October 06, 2016, 07:08:41 PM
Extra slots in the one and two range actually can turn the paladin into a rather effective party buffer.  Extra bless weapons for example are terrific, as well as stat buffs.  At low levels those extra bless weapons are -extraordinarily- powerful.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on October 06, 2016, 07:53:46 PM
Actually they have to be level 4.  They don't get any spellcasting abilities till then, I believe, spell slots or no.  I think.  Hrm.  Suddenly I have a doubt.

Personally I'd like to see a level 3 or stretching it even to a 4 spell slot item for paladins, but that's pure greed - but also I admit a bit of end game loot.  There's some room for some of that sort of thing I think, but it'd have to be nearly impossibly rare for it to make it in at all.

Yeah, level 1 or 2 spells aren't that great. The best spells are holy sword, shackle, restoration, and prayer. The only good multi-use of the 1 and 2 spells is clarity.

I disagree. In all time, in any D&D iterations, 1st level spells have always proved tremendously powerful considering their spell level. And just in NWN Bless, Bless weapon, Deafening clang, Divine Favor, Magic weapon, Protection from Evil. These 1st level Paladin spells make a world of difference on our server.

And Nem, yes, a 2nd level paladin wearing an item granting a bonus spell slot, would be able to memorize and cast the spell, regardless of the slot level.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: NecropolisV on October 07, 2016, 02:52:44 AM
Actually they have to be level 4.  They don't get any spellcasting abilities till then, I believe, spell slots or no.  I think.  Hrm.  Suddenly I have a doubt.

Personally I'd like to see a level 3 or stretching it even to a 4 spell slot item for paladins, but that's pure greed - but also I admit a bit of end game loot.  There's some room for some of that sort of thing I think, but it'd have to be nearly impossibly rare for it to make it in at all.

Yeah, level 1 or 2 spells aren't that great. The best spells are holy sword, shackle, restoration, and prayer. The only good multi-use of the 1 and 2 spells is clarity.

I disagree. In all time, in any D&D iterations, 1st level spells have always proved tremendously powerful considering their spell level. And just in NWN Bless, Bless weapon, Deafening clang, Divine Favor, Magic weapon, Protection from Evil. These 1st level Paladin spells make a world of difference on our server.

And Nem, yes, a 2nd level paladin wearing an item granting a bonus spell slot, would be able to memorize and cast the spell, regardless of the slot level.


Ah sorry, didn't know any rings existed for paladin slots, only know of one item like that which are the bracers. I am aware of the cleric rings but those are higher level slots so figured a weaker ring that maybe is more accessible to lower level clerics would work. (i don't know all the loot spawns and such, so sorry if i wasn't aware of some of these things, good to know though!)
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on October 07, 2016, 03:57:52 AM
Ah sorry, didn't know any rings existed for paladin slots, only know of one item like that which are the bracers. I am aware of the cleric rings but those are higher level slots so figured a weaker ring that maybe is more accessible to lower level clerics would work. (i don't know all the loot spawns and such, so sorry if i wasn't aware of some of these things, good to know though!)

They do not. We are merely discussing Dumas' Ring of Oath proposal.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Dumas on October 07, 2016, 09:59:33 AM
I didn't propose that, that was NecropolisV
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Pav on October 07, 2016, 11:57:10 PM
And Nem, yes, a 2nd level paladin wearing an item granting a bonus spell slot, would be able to memorize and cast the spell, regardless of the slot level.

This is false. You need to be at least level 4.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on October 10, 2016, 11:03:11 PM
This is false. You need to be at least level 4.

I stand corrected. I tested it, and indeed, a paladin must first be able to cast spells on his own to benefit from a bonus spell slot granted by an item. But be it at level 2 or level 4, I still believe paladins have no need of rings to further grant them bonus spell slots.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Pav on October 11, 2016, 02:27:17 PM
Rangers have 3 different items to give them spell slots, and while Ranger spells are not as good, I feel like another item for paladins would be fine. Maybe not a ring, but a very rare amulet?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on November 28, 2016, 08:04:28 AM
Item Name: Cape of the Matador

Item Type: Cloak

Description: Passed down from dualist to entertainer and back again, these capes have served as a meager means of protection for a varity of fighting spectacles. A flick of the wrist and a trick of the eye, wearers of these capes are reknowned for their ability to dance and dodge their way around oppents- Though should their foes aim be true, it will surely mean their end.

The cape itself is crimson red and flows freely around its wearer. Closer inspection reveals several small punctures with dark brown stains surrounding them- perhaps revealing its previous owners demise.

Statistics:
+2 Parry
+2 Antagonize
+2 Deflection AC

25% Damage Vulnerability: Piercing

You propose a very powerful item here, I suggest you tone it down and add more vulnerabilities. As is, I don't see any good reason to add it to the module. Also please always include the item cost given to you by the toolset as per the instructions to submit an item. It helps us assess the likelihood of the item dropping in loots.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: julienchab on November 28, 2016, 09:00:33 AM
Item Name: Cape of the Matador

Item Type: Cloak

Description: Passed down from dualist to entertainer and back again, these capes have served as a meager means of protection for a varity of fighting spectacles. A flick of the wrist and a trick of the eye, wearers of these capes are reknowned for their ability to dance and dodge their way around oppents- Though should their foes aim be true, it will surely mean their end.

The cape itself is crimson red and flows freely around its wearer. Closer inspection reveals several small punctures with dark brown stains surrounding them- perhaps revealing its previous owners demise.

Statistics:
+2 Parry
+2 Antagonize
+2 Deflection AC

25% Damage Vulnerability: Piercing

You propose a very powerful item here, I suggest you tone it down and add more vulnerabilities. As is, I don't see any good reason to add it to the module. Also please always include the item cost given to you by the toolset as per the instructions to submit an item. It helps us assess the likelihood of the item dropping in loots.

Why do you consider it a very powerful item? +2 parry and antagonize is decent, while if I agree +2 deflection is strong, it is very easily overriden by spells like shield of faith, shield and greater mage armor, so the value is tuned down in my opinion. Also, the 25% damage vulnerability is still a big deal, and will make the life of anyone who uses it a pain against rogues.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: LeviShultz on November 28, 2016, 09:15:19 AM
Well, I compared it to other cloaks with similar stats. Cloak of the High Forest has a flat +2 deflection ac with zero drawbacks. Cape of the Savage gives +2 deflection ac with -4 will.

Here, you have the same same +2 deflection ac with the addition of skill bonus. With that comes a 25% percent damage vulnerability. There's a reason the blood runes line of weapon are avoided like the plague. I chose piercing as it fit the theme of bullfighting and dueling best- The risk of being gored and run though,

Do you think a 50% damage vulnerability would be more appropriate? At that level I think you'll see people only wearing it when they knew they wouldn't encounter piercing damage which it not what I really wanted. Knowing the risk and taken it anyways it what the item is about. Perhaps 25% piercing and 25% slashing? Or a concentration penalty making the duelist more susceptible to being taunted?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on November 28, 2016, 12:31:34 PM
In regards to an item's power, it is of course a matter of personnal opinion, and it is known I usually side on the "less powerful is better" side. Here I see an item granting a fair bonus to 3 highly useful skills/features all at once. It seems excessive to me without adequate counterbalancing flaws. But it goes both ways and I would not go for a 50% piercing weakness either.

I'm not enthusiast either to granting skill point bonuses in parry when the cloak also gives AC bonuses. Two abilities granting AC bonuses on the same item makes it redundant.

Now a -1 penalty to concentration to offset  a +2 bonus to antagonize, I would find fair. And a -1 to discipline to offset the +2 in Parry as well. I like items that bites back the user but not so much that an item would not be used.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on December 02, 2016, 02:57:21 PM
Dumas, I like your ceinture du rιvolutionaire's idea. Fits perfectly with the server lore.

How about they would also "auto-hostile" a wearer to the gendarme's faction given what it represents?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Arawn on December 02, 2016, 02:59:41 PM
Dumas, I like your ceinture du rιvolutionaire's idea. Fits perfectly with the server lore.

How about they would also "auto-hostile" a wearer to the gendarme's faction given what it represents?

We can't do that and shouldn't do that, as setting hostile is part of the PvP rules, which could lead to confusion, and making gendarme NPCs attack random players over a bit of gear would cause serious issues. Even the elves in Degannwy don't attack over a necklace of ears.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: modderpunk on December 02, 2016, 04:49:47 PM
Maybe an ocr increase withing dementlieu?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Gavin Mace on December 05, 2016, 08:09:30 PM
I'd like to suggest changing one of the expendable items that grants 'Keen' to 'Weapon of Impact'.

We currently have the Enchanted Whetstone (5 uses), Mustard of Success (3 uses), and the Oil of Sharpness (1 use).

Maybe the mustard, with a slight change to the description. What do you think?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on January 11, 2017, 03:52:47 PM
I'd like to suggest changing one of the expendable items that grants 'Keen' to 'Weapon of Impact'.

We currently have the Enchanted Whetstone (5 uses), Mustard of Success (3 uses), and the Oil of Sharpness (1 use).

Maybe the mustard, with a slight change to the description. What do you think?

Equivalent items casting Weapon of Impact, will be added soon. No need to change an existing item.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Alan Hunter on January 11, 2017, 07:17:59 PM
Not sure if its done here but can I request citizenship for Dementlieu as a foriegner? I remembering reading about Dementliwu in forums and one could request to be a citizen and also request paperwork for servants. My character Adrian Dundragon has been living there and working in the biblioteque for three montha but I havent found a request area or in game place for such.

Also if this is an item of citizenship how does one get papers for thier servants? Reading the laws if one has swrvants they would need papers as well especially if thwy were caliban. How do I go by that?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: BadStrref on January 11, 2017, 10:24:30 PM
Not sure if its done here but can I request citizenship for Dementlieu as a foriegner? I remembering reading about Dementliwu in forums and one could request to be a citizen and also request paperwork for servants. My character Adrian Dundragon has been living there and working in the biblioteque for three montha but I havent found a request area or in game place for such.

Also if this is an item of citizenship how does one get papers for thier servants? Reading the laws if one has swrvants they would need papers as well especially if thwy were caliban. How do I go by that?

These questions might be better asked in character or at least in the Ravenloft discussion board if you have questions about the setting.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on January 16, 2017, 06:44:31 AM
(( Having seen a somewhat lack in proper druid gear, I'll be posting a few in the coming days. Hope they're up to snuff! ))

Item Name: Bullthorn's Vine

Item Type: Ring

Description: The Elder Treant Bullthorn occasionally uses broken parts of himself to craft items for worthy druids who seek him out in the Vale of Shadows. This particular piece is an eternally strong & sturdy vine, pieces of thorned bark still stuck to its exterior, tied together in a ring-like shape. Those who wield it feel a greater connection to the Woods....But this power comes at a price: the wielder will partly share the Wood's Weaknesses as well...
 
Statistics: Bonus Spell Slot Druid [Level 3], Bonus Spell Slot Druid [Level 4], Damage Vulnerability Fire [10%], Damage Vulnerability Slashing [10%], Class restriction [Druid]

Item Cost : 5193

They already count an amulet, 2 robes, 1 armor, 1 staff, an helm and a very powerful ring which all grant extra spell slots. More rings granting spell slots is not what Druids need. Try maybe to devise interesting armors that would be the equivalent of some of the crafted steel ones. I think there would be a market for those.

Also, while they might indeed benefit of having more nature oriented items at their disposal indeed. The Druid & Nature loot tables alone do count over 80 items (not even counting the spell scrolls) that may specifically be of interest to Druids. Because its not exclusively restricted to druids doesn't mean some items were not created with them in mind. We try as best as possible to avoid "class exclusive items".

Part of the problem may also be that you simply do not adventure where nature/druid loot is more likely to appear. Loot type is associated to type of dungeons you visit. Grinding the same dungeons over and over will make you miss the diversity of the 1000+ different custom items in our loot tables. Though maybe they ought to drop in more dungeons than now, that will be something for us Dev to discuss.

Item Name: Bullthorn's Hands

Item Type: Gauntlets

Description: The Elder Treant Bullthorn occasionally uses broken parts of himself to craft items for worthy druids who seek him out in the Vale of Shadows. These gloves were once the trusty appendages of the mighty wooden titan. Tiny spikes litter the woodlike surface, the tips eternally oozing a remnant of the treant's poisonous defenses. While powerful and well-crafted, they are a bit unwieldy for humanoid hands...Not to mention made of magicked wood!
 
Statistics: Damage Bonus Acid [1d6], Damage Bonus Piercing [2], Extra Melee Damage Type [Piercing], Decreased Attack Modifier [-1], Damage Vulnerability Fire [5%], Alignment Group Restriction [Neutral]

Item Cost : 5842

A druid using those in conjunction with the "Claws of the Savage" spell would end up with a +2 weapon dealing all 3 types of damage at once. I'm not convinced that's the kind of thing we should aim for. Also I'd rather see those as a monk item, though they already have gloves dealing acid damage.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: julienchab on January 16, 2017, 10:05:43 AM
(( Having seen a somewhat lack in proper druid gear, I'll be posting a few in the coming days. Hope they're up to snuff! ))

Item Name: Bullthorn's Vine

Item Type: Ring

Description: The Elder Treant Bullthorn occasionally uses broken parts of himself to craft items for worthy druids who seek him out in the Vale of Shadows. This particular piece is an eternally strong & sturdy vine, pieces of thorned bark still stuck to its exterior, tied together in a ring-like shape. Those who wield it feel a greater connection to the Woods....But this power comes at a price: the wielder will partly share the Wood's Weaknesses as well...
 
Statistics: Bonus Spell Slot Druid [Level 3], Bonus Spell Slot Druid [Level 4], Damage Vulnerability Fire [10%], Damage Vulnerability Slashing [10%], Class restriction [Druid]

Item Cost : 5193

They already count an amulet, 2 robes, 1 armor, 1 staff, an helm and a very powerful ring which all grant extra spell slots. More rings granting spell slots is not what Druids need. Try maybe to devise interesting armors that would be the equivalent of some of the crafted steel ones. I think there would be a market for those.

Also, while they might indeed benefit of having more nature oriented items at their disposal indeed. The Druid & Nature loot tables alone do count over 80 items (not even counting the spell scrolls) that may specifically be of interest to Druids. Because its not exclusively restricted to druids doesn't mean some items were not created with them in mind. We try as best as possible to avoid "class exclusive items".

Part of the problem may also be that you simply do not adventure where nature/druid loot is more likely to appear. Loot type is associated to type of dungeons you visit. Grinding the same dungeons over and over will make you miss the diversity of the 1000+ different custom items in our loot tables. Though maybe they ought to drop in more dungeons than now, that will be something for us Dev to discuss.

Item Name: Bullthorn's Hands

Item Type: Gauntlets

Description: The Elder Treant Bullthorn occasionally uses broken parts of himself to craft items for worthy druids who seek him out in the Vale of Shadows. These gloves were once the trusty appendages of the mighty wooden titan. Tiny spikes litter the woodlike surface, the tips eternally oozing a remnant of the treant's poisonous defenses. While powerful and well-crafted, they are a bit unwieldy for humanoid hands...Not to mention made of magicked wood!
 
Statistics: Damage Bonus Acid [1d6], Damage Bonus Piercing [2], Extra Melee Damage Type [Piercing], Decreased Attack Modifier [-1], Damage Vulnerability Fire [5%], Alignment Group Restriction [Neutral]

Item Cost : 5842

A druid using those in conjunction with the "Claws of the Savage" spell would end up with a +2 weapon dealing all 3 types of damage at once. I'm not convinced that's the kind of thing we should aim for. Also I'd rather see those as a monk item, though they already have gloves dealing acid damage.

They do? I know they have gloves that do divine, fire, cold, sonic, piercing, slashing and bludgeoning damage, but I have never seen any pair of gloves that does acid damage. Is it a new item?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Syl on January 16, 2017, 10:17:31 AM
(( Having seen a somewhat lack in proper druid gear, I'll be posting a few in the coming days. Hope they're up to snuff! ))

Item Name: Bullthorn's Vine

Item Type: Ring

Description: The Elder Treant Bullthorn occasionally uses broken parts of himself to craft items for worthy druids who seek him out in the Vale of Shadows. This particular piece is an eternally strong & sturdy vine, pieces of thorned bark still stuck to its exterior, tied together in a ring-like shape. Those who wield it feel a greater connection to the Woods....But this power comes at a price: the wielder will partly share the Wood's Weaknesses as well...
 
Statistics: Bonus Spell Slot Druid [Level 3], Bonus Spell Slot Druid [Level 4], Damage Vulnerability Fire [10%], Damage Vulnerability Slashing [10%], Class restriction [Druid]

Item Cost : 5193

They already count an amulet, 2 robes, 1 armor, 1 staff, an helm and a very powerful ring which all grant extra spell slots. More rings granting spell slots is not what Druids need. Try maybe to devise interesting armors that would be the equivalent of some of the crafted steel ones. I think there would be a market for those.

Also, while they might indeed benefit of having more nature oriented items at their disposal indeed. The Druid & Nature loot tables alone do count over 80 items (not even counting the spell scrolls) that may specifically be of interest to Druids. Because its not exclusively restricted to druids doesn't mean some items were not created with them in mind. We try as best as possible to avoid "class exclusive items".

Part of the problem may also be that you simply do not adventure where nature/druid loot is more likely to appear. Loot type is associated to type of dungeons you visit. Grinding the same dungeons over and over will make you miss the diversity of the 1000+ different custom items in our loot tables. Though maybe they ought to drop in more dungeons than now, that will be something for us Dev to discuss.

Item Name: Bullthorn's Hands

Item Type: Gauntlets

Description: The Elder Treant Bullthorn occasionally uses broken parts of himself to craft items for worthy druids who seek him out in the Vale of Shadows. These gloves were once the trusty appendages of the mighty wooden titan. Tiny spikes litter the woodlike surface, the tips eternally oozing a remnant of the treant's poisonous defenses. While powerful and well-crafted, they are a bit unwieldy for humanoid hands...Not to mention made of magicked wood!
 
Statistics: Damage Bonus Acid [1d6], Damage Bonus Piercing [2], Extra Melee Damage Type [Piercing], Decreased Attack Modifier [-1], Damage Vulnerability Fire [5%], Alignment Group Restriction [Neutral]

Item Cost : 5842

A druid using those in conjunction with the "Claws of the Savage" spell would end up with a +2 weapon dealing all 3 types of damage at once. I'm not convinced that's the kind of thing we should aim for. Also I'd rather see those as a monk item, though they already have gloves dealing acid damage.

They do? I know they have gloves that do divine, fire, cold, sonic, piercing, slashing and bludgeoning damage, but I have never seen any pair of gloves that does acid damage. Is it a new item?

No they are called gloves of the green dragon disciple? or something like that they do +1 ab and 1d6 acid damage might be 1d4 I'm sure it's the D6 i'll correct myself when I get on today. Tsubaki has a pair found in a dungeon.

gonna add in, it was in a mid level dungeon but the drop is rare.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Ken14 on January 16, 2017, 11:12:45 AM

They already count an amulet, 2 robes, 1 armor, 1 staff, an helm and a very powerful ring which all grant extra spell slots. More rings granting spell slots is not what Druids need. Try maybe to devise interesting armors that would be the equivalent of some of the crafted steel ones. I think there would be a market for those.

Also, while they might indeed benefit of having more nature oriented items at their disposal indeed. The Druid & Nature loot tables alone do count over 80 items (not even counting the spell scrolls) that may specifically be of interest to Druids. Because its not exclusively restricted to druids doesn't mean some items were not created with them in mind. We try as best as possible to avoid "class exclusive items".

Part of the problem may also be that you simply do not adventure where nature/druid loot is more likely to appear. Loot type is associated to type of dungeons you visit. Grinding the same dungeons over and over will make you miss the diversity of the 1000+ different custom items in our loot tables. Though maybe they ought to drop in more dungeons than now, that will be something for us Dev to discuss.


Really? Because I've been playing a druid for over two years, but the only things with spell slots I've seen are the Golden Sickle and the Neureni/Harmony Robes, and even that was uncommon. But I'll grant that I might not be doing all the dungeons available.

However, I've never seen the other mentioned things (like rings!), not even in auctions. When my character asked IC-wise, nobody ever knew of any, either. Hence my assumption that they didn't exist.

Thanks for clarifying, and definitely thanks for discussing a possible upping of druidic drops! I'll see if I can't devise any armors. Maybe a bow?


Item Name: Bullthorn's Hands

Item Type: Gauntlets

Description: The Elder Treant Bullthorn occasionally uses broken parts of himself to craft items for worthy druids who seek him out in the Vale of Shadows. These gloves were once the trusty appendages of the mighty wooden titan. Tiny spikes litter the woodlike surface, the tips eternally oozing a remnant of the treant's poisonous defenses. While powerful and well-crafted, they are a bit unwieldy for humanoid hands...Not to mention made of magicked wood!
 
Statistics: Damage Bonus Acid [1d6], Damage Bonus Piercing [2], Extra Melee Damage Type [Piercing], Decreased Attack Modifier [-1], Damage Vulnerability Fire [5%], Alignment Group Restriction [Neutral]

Item Cost : 5842

A druid using those in conjunction with the "Claws of the Savage" spell would end up with a +2 weapon dealing all 3 types of damage at once. I'm not convinced that's the kind of thing we should aim for. Also I'd rather see those as a monk item, though they already have gloves dealing acid damage.

That's actually a fair point. And monks need love, after all. I could see them using it for added damage. Removing the alignment restriction!

Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: BadStrref on January 17, 2017, 11:33:54 PM
Item Name: Amulet of Shifting Faces

Item Type: Necklace

Appearance: iit_neck_089

Description: These necklaces are shrouded in mystery, few if any know who make such things. The power of the necklace can be immensely useful in taking on the benefits of other creatures. But its power does not come without cost, simply wearing the necklace leaves ones mind exceedingly vulnerable to the will of others. Because the amulet allows one to quickly assume the form of others and shift back and forth at will. It also leaves ones true form susceptible to illness. The cost of the amulets power is often the downfall of the beholder. In a way, the amulets are almost cursed in that regard, since such amulets are found more often then not on whats left of its previous owner.

Statistics: Cast Spell: Polymorph 5 Charges/Use, Decreased Saving Throws -5 Disease, -5 Will, -5 Mind Affecting

Cost: 4251

While those are some harsh penalties, I don't see any reason a player would actually wear this necklace. Yes, you have to put it on to use the Polymorph charges, but there is zero chance I'd ever just walk around wearing this. If I had to I'd put it on to activate it and then strip it rendering its drawbacks rather irrelevant. I'd consider adding some stats, saves or maybe "Spell Immunity Baleful Polymorph" to justify the draw backs and encourage people to actually wear it.

On another note -5 will and -5 vs mind effective is a bit excessive. In the case of you facing a mind affecting spell, they'll stack giving you a cumulative -10  to your save. I'd keep the theme of a weakened state of mind though. Maybe a wisdom penalty -2 or 3 maybe and then a smaller lower save vs mind affecting. They'll still stack, but it wont quite as severe. 
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: julienchab on January 17, 2017, 11:48:50 PM
Item Name: Amulet of Shifting Faces

Item Type: Necklace

Appearance: iit_neck_089

Description: These necklaces are shrouded in mystery, few if any know who make such things. The power of the necklace can be immensely useful in taking on the benefits of other creatures. But its power does not come without cost, simply wearing the necklace leaves ones mind exceedingly vulnerable to the will of others. Because the amulet allows one to quickly assume the form of others and shift back and forth at will. It also leaves ones true form susceptible to illness. The cost of the amulets power is often the downfall of the beholder. In a way, the amulets are almost cursed in that regard, since such amulets are found more often then not on whats left of its previous owner.

Statistics: Cast Spell: Polymorph 5 Charges/Use, Decreased Saving Throws -5 Disease, -5 Will, -5 Mind Affecting

Cost: 4251

While those are some harsh penalties, I don't see any reason a player would actually wear this necklace. Yes, you have to put it on to use the Polymorph charges, but there is zero chance I'd ever just walk around wearing this. If I had to I'd put it on to activate it and then strip it rendering its drawbacks rather irrelevant. I'd consider adding some stats, saves or maybe "Spell Immunity Baleful Polymorph" to justify the draw backs and encourage people to actually wear it.

On another note -5 will and -5 vs mind effective is a bit excessive. In the case of you facing a mind affecting spell, they'll stack giving you a cumulative -10  to your save. I'd keep the theme of a weakened state of mind though. Maybe a wisdom penalty -2 or 3 maybe and then a smaller lower save vs mind affecting. They'll still stack, but it wont quite as severe. 

You're not really going to put this amulet unless you want to polymorph, and once you polymorph, the amulet stats don't count.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: BadStrref on January 17, 2017, 11:56:20 PM
I guess you could use it to polymorph some allies and that's about it. Those huge drawbacks only have an incredibly short window where they actually have any meaning.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: julienchab on January 18, 2017, 12:05:21 AM
I guess you could use it to polymorph some allies and that's about it. Those huge drawbacks only have an incredibly short window where they actually have any meaning.

Yeah exactly what I mean, so even if the drawbacks are high, they dont mean a lot since you're going to have the amulet only in specific times
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Miuo on January 18, 2017, 06:17:17 AM
That was partly the point, you arnt meant to just leave it on and then suddenly just activate it. You want to wear it as little as possible, and even trying to put it on during battle to use it runs the immense risk of danger.

And then should you even use it before hand, the moment poly wears off, you have it on and risk considerable harm depending on what your doing the moment it wears off. Which is the point, as its a gamble to use the item. You risk being vulnerable before and after you activate the spell, or even during if someone dispells you and manages to cancel out your poly.

Which fits the bio of the item i feel, its powerful and useful but only as long as your careful how you use it and are able to hold the form. If not you become rather vulnerable and could easily become killed if not careful how you use it.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Miuo on January 18, 2017, 06:47:29 AM
Huh, there are the robes of the white island. Which have the same poly/-5 will/-5 mind, and are class locked to Cleric/Druid/Good/Monk, which are only worth less then 200gp.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on January 18, 2017, 06:55:41 AM
Then your suggestion even becomes redundant. Chabxxu and Philos are right, no one would ever use that amulet in a situation it was dangerous for them. I assume it is the the same with those robes. Seems to me a far better solution is for a one-shot consumable item casting the spell (if it does not exists already), a counterpart to the Witch's Cauldron.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: BadStrref on January 18, 2017, 07:27:28 AM
You could do like "Witch's Benign Brew" and "Witch's Baleful Brew" and have fun trying to figure out which witch is which. ;)
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Miuo on January 18, 2017, 07:45:41 AM
Single use Poly potion would come out to 1051gp, would that be acceptable for a potion?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Iridni Ren on January 31, 2017, 12:59:18 PM
Hope you don't mind, but got a fair few here to suggest for the CEP items, to try and bring them up to the level of some of the lootables.  Add some variety as it were!

Those are boffo, love a couple of new maces but!

Someone in chat said you can't focus or specialize in CEP weapons (like heavy mace)?

If true, then these are NOT so OP because that's a big handicap!!
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Miuo on January 31, 2017, 11:04:56 PM
Yurp, same with "Fashion Items" which are most holdables.

Spoiler: show

Item Type - Razor

Jack's Toy
Jack be nimble, Jack be quick
Jack's gonna put your head on a stick
Looking to dance, looking to play
Looking to take your eyes away
Ezra won't come, won't save your soul
He'll cut, and slice
Chop, and dice
And eat.  You.  Whole.
-The Rippers Rhyme.

Appearance -    Top - 1   Colour - 4
      Middle - 1  Colour - 3
      Bottom - 1  Colour - 1
Stats - Decreased AC, -5
Decreased Saves, Universal, -2
Keen
Massive crits 1d8
Bonus slashing 1d6
Quality - Excellent
Material - Steel, Bone
Cost - 15678


The -5 AC feels like it would render the item rather useless? Not sure anyone would take such a huge hit to AC for a item they can focus in or get a bonus via feats, or have a base item dmg. Unlike daggers and other similar weapons its completely reliant on stats making it even less favorable. I really like the idea of some razor items, but i dunno this feels like it will be largely a miss with that kind of AC penalty.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Nemesis 24 on January 31, 2017, 11:21:18 PM
To be honest I was thinking of it having more of a roleplay based item, and heavily cursed.  Also, that said, it was about the only way to reduce the cost!  That is a very, very expensive item.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Miuo on February 01, 2017, 12:10:02 AM
But isn't that the issue? The -5 ac is purely there to reduce, I would have preferred other means. Such as breaking it down into a few different negative side effects rather than going for one huge one that basically renders the item unusable by nearly every single character, and with such a crazy high price it only ensures it to be of the rarest possible. Only for it to be rubbish.

A cursed item would be nice if hidden curses could be a thing like once equipped it can't be removed without remove curse. Or Something bad would happen sporadically out of the blue, such as getting the wounding property applied. Or sudden damage dmg was done (rply compelled to self-harm/spill your own blood because the razor compels you to.) But all that kinda stuff takes script work.

Going off what is purely available at this moment, the -5 ac seems too much of a single drawback to making the item useful for any. Since any caster type is already gonna have crap ac to begin with and -5 will make them insanely squishy, and anyone who could stand to even possibly take the ac hit will won't want to use the item because it utterly blows compared to an actual "normal" weapon. Might it be worth discussing though that non-typical weapons get grants a default negative to their cost value to make up for their lack of base dmg and the like? So something like the razor won't be so insanely expensive when given a little more power to make it a little more equal to actual weapon type?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Nemesis 24 on February 01, 2017, 04:22:59 AM
The thing is, at present this is an -extremely- powerful weapon.  Keen, bonus damage, and massive crits put it close to an enchanted weapon.  Given a GMW and it'd cause enormous damage even as offhand.  There is a lot of stuff to offset the loss, such as parry AC or spell AC.  -5 is a *lot* I will grant you, yes.  But it needs a ridiculous offset for its ridiculous potential.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Miuo on February 01, 2017, 06:53:47 AM
I don't disagree with that, I just think as you pointed out the negatives should be broken up into other types. Rather than the focus on -5 AC and -2 Universal.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Iluvatar on February 01, 2017, 02:50:12 PM
With that item, I think it would be much more easier if instead, you remove the bonus on it and low grade its quality. Adding bonus like that then putting lots of negative on it doesn't serve any purpose imo.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: modderpunk on February 05, 2017, 05:44:56 PM
Quote
Item Name: Slab

Regardless, the improperly heavy blade's edge is dull,

-Damage Bonus Slashing [2d8]


This seems contrary....
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Ken14 on February 05, 2017, 05:59:53 PM
Quote
Item Name: Slab

Regardless, the improperly heavy blade's edge is dull,

-Damage Bonus Slashing [2d8]



This seems contrary....

Woops, right you are! Changed to Bludgeoning.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Iluvatar on February 05, 2017, 10:24:21 PM
Item Name: Slab

Item Type: Greatsword

Description: This isn't a weapon: It's a mockery of craftmanship. The 'blade'', if it can be called that, looks like someone grabbed a large slab of iron and hammered it vaguely into the shape of a sword. The only remarkable aspect of this thing is that the Slab doesn't fall apart under it's sheer weight.  A fluke or some unknown genius forging technique, who can tell?

Regardless, the improperly heavy blade's edge is dull, though a hit from this 'sword' would  admittedly still hurt like all hells. But it's greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness : Only the strongest warriors could hope to lift this thing, let alone wield it.
 


Statistics:

Advantages:
-Damage Bonus Bludgeoning [2d8]
-Extra Damage Type [Bludgeoning]
-Material [Iron]

Disadvantages:
-Decreased Dexterity [-2]
-Decreased AC Dodge [-2]
-Decreased Skill Parry [-4]
-Decreased Skill Tumble [-4]
-Weight Increase [30 lbs]


Item Cost : 6298

Appearance:

Top : 7 [Color 1]
Middle : 7 [Color 1]
Bottom : 25 [Color 1]

The only thing I don't like with an item like that is that with so many negative, I don't think anyone would be ready to use a sword like or even carry it with that 30lbs extra weight.

I do not dislike the concept of the blade though, remove a few negative, remove the
-Extra Damage Type [Bludgeoning]

and lower the extra damage to 1d8 instead.

As it is right now, I don't see anyone willing to lose almost 4-5AC and add 30lbs weight to use a greatsword like this.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MrSmiley on February 05, 2017, 10:59:01 PM
I like the idea of having a greatsword that can cause bludgeoning damage, with so many undead in the server it'd fill a good nichι and be immensely useful nearly just from that quality alone. Obviously it'll require tweaking with negative aspects, and positive ones.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: BadStrref on February 05, 2017, 11:40:10 PM
One thing to remember is that the AC bonus from tumble uses BASE skill ranks, i.e what you invest at level up. Lowering the skill through items or stat penalties will not actually decrease the AC you receive from the tumble skill.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Iluvatar on February 06, 2017, 12:26:24 AM
You would still lose around 4 AC depending on your build and that's not something someone using a greatsword can spare, 4 AC is a lot. It's the difference between life and death in many many situation.

When making items, we should try to make items that people will actually want to use despite the negative on them. Adding items that no one will use because of to important negative doesn't serve any purpose, they could be replace by coins since they'll be sold anyway and just make finding suitable piece of gear much harder. I've seen many nice concept of items, but many also have so many negative that there is no way I would want to use them. My advice is remove some advantage of the items instead of adding too many negative. And sometime, yeah an item will simply be op and some items need to be, not every items needs negative on them.

Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Ken14 on February 06, 2017, 02:31:24 AM
Item Name: Slab

Item Type: Greatsword

Description: This isn't a weapon: It's a mockery of craftmanship. The 'blade'', if it can be called that, looks like someone grabbed a large slab of iron and hammered it vaguely into the shape of a sword. The only remarkable aspect of this thing is that the Slab doesn't fall apart under it's sheer weight.  A fluke or some unknown genius forging technique, who can tell?

Regardless, the improperly heavy blade's edge is dull, though a hit from this 'sword' would  admittedly still hurt like all hells. But it's greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness : Only the strongest warriors could hope to lift this thing, let alone wield it.
 


Statistics:

Advantages:
-Damage Bonus Bludgeoning [2d8]
-Extra Damage Type [Bludgeoning]
-Material [Iron]

Disadvantages:
-Decreased Dexterity [-2]
-Decreased AC Dodge [-2]
-Decreased Skill Parry [-4]
-Decreased Skill Tumble [-4]
-Weight Increase [30 lbs]


Item Cost : 6298

Appearance:

Top : 7 [Color 1]
Middle : 7 [Color 1]
Bottom : 25 [Color 1]

The only thing I don't like with an item like that is that with so many negative, I don't think anyone would be ready to use a sword like or even carry it with that 30lbs extra weight.

I do not dislike the concept of the blade though, remove a few negative, remove the
-Extra Damage Type [Bludgeoning]

and lower the extra damage to 1d8 instead.

As it is right now, I don't see anyone willing to lose almost 4-5AC and add 30lbs weight to use a greatsword like this.

Okay, I reworked the sword with this notion in mind : The sword should be so heavy that it impairs your ability to move. I was wary of lowering the damage to 1d8, because that's just the damage increase of an average steel greatsword.

However, I realized rather quickly that this is bludgeoning damage, so any spell or item that grants enhancement would add slashing damage on top of the 1d8 increase, which makes it viable even in cases not related to the undead.

Per negatives :
Losing so much AC would be catastrophic, true. A decrease in tumble is still viable : can't exactly run with a 45 pound sword. And a decrease in tumble does not remove AC.

I've also added a decreased saving throw for reflex, and removed all the other negative/positives. This way, no AC loss is made, but you'd still be impaired in the ways of agility.

See the Item request thread for the specifics!
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Iluvatar on February 06, 2017, 12:36:16 PM
I personally think it is much better like that! If I found a sword like that right now, I might be ready to use it! :)
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Night of Reod on February 10, 2017, 12:51:35 PM
Hanged Man's Boots
Boots
Top 4/2
Middle 4/3
Bottom 2/7
Bonus Feat: Evasion
Decreased Saving Throws: Death -3
Use Limitation Alignment Group Chaotic
978

In many places, the boots of a man condemned to hanging are claimed by the man that ties the noose.
These boots once belonged to such a man; a canny thief who's luck eventually ran out. These boots grant some of that thief's preternatural adroitness, but any who wear them is surely marked for death.

 I consider Evasion to be the strongest feat, even stronger than Improved Evasion because of the lower requirements, and I know I am not alone in this. I think it is too strong a feat to be on an item, especially with just a penalty that is situational and can easily be nullified with a Death Ward spell. I also think it is a bad idea to lock such a strong feat behind a specific alignment, if it must be added to the game as an item. Overall though, I would change the evasion feat to increased reflex saves, or possibly to the Defensive Roll feat.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Teamplayer on February 10, 2017, 01:16:43 PM
Seconded. This would be like giving weapon specialization on an item. It's something people take rogue specifically for or ranger etc. This is a key ability to classes and should likely not be given on an item. Just my personal view.

Added reflex makes sense though. Personally I don't think any of the rogue special feats should  be something given by items.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on March 13, 2017, 02:44:39 PM
Seems to me someone was in a Falkovnian-Oktoberfest mood today. I like those beers very much, but maybe we should have varieties from various domains and use them further to disseminate more info about the rest of the Core?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on June 25, 2017, 01:36:21 AM
Hi Dumas. Thanks for your latest proposals. I do like most of them, but playing the devils advocate I have a few questions/comments about them.

Gloves of the Black Moon
What is the point of those gloves? We already have gloves granting animal empathy. And hide/move silently skills are better suited to armors and boots than gloves.

Burden of Faith
AC +3, Damage Reduction : +1 [Amount: 4]. That is huge, regardless of the penalties tied to it I don't think we should add this to the module.

Amulet of Blessed Refuge
Interesting, but granting way too much skill point bonuses for my taste. I would reduce the bonuses to +2, and the penalties accordingly.

Shard of Sacrifice
Understanding that it helps to balance the blade's powers, but would anyone truly use a blade bestowing a -4 penalty to AC? We after all want to devise items people would use. The +2d8 divine damage also seems to me to be a bit high. I would tone it down to +1d4 max. Of course the penalties should also be reduced accordingly. And by the nature of the blade the +1 should be vs Evil only as well.

Corvian Helm
I like this helm, but I am concerned the -5 penaly to reflex would make it so that no one would use it. How about: AC Bonus vs. Damage Type : Bludgeoning [+3]; Damage Resistance :Bludgeoning [Amount: 1]; Decreased Saving Throws: Specific: Reflex [-2] instead? 

Medallion of the Grasses
While I like the concept of this medallion, something tells me it would only be used by roguish types for whom the 25% arcane spell failure chance is moot. I would drop the spell failure chance to only 5%, the spellcraft bonus to +2, and instead add a -2 penalty to a skill useful to rogues in general. I think that would make it interesting for more players.

The following items I like as is, I'll add them to the the module. Pending approval from my fellow devs of course.

Gloomreaver's Bane
Highwayman's Surprise (Will likely make bolts and bullets versions as well)
Sklaventreiber Whip
Vial of Incendiary Sun
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Dumas on June 25, 2017, 02:27:16 AM
Thanks for the input, MAB77. I went back and made some of the edits you suggested, and modified the items properties and prices, accordingly.

As for the Black Moon gloves, I can see your point in gloves not adding anything to move silently, (you'd move most silently without gloves, most likely), and forgot that there were already tamer gloves that added empathy. I decided to change the item to armor instead, which would still fit the description. Hopefully, it will give a good choice to druids or rangers wishing for nature stealth armor.

I've also eliminated the damage reduction from the Burden of Faith, as well as changing some of the penalties, hopefully toning it down to a more realistic level.

Here's the edited stats for those items, but I've also changed them on the Request Thread -

Item Name: Blackmoon Hide
Item Type: Armor (hide armor)

Description:  Dreaded tales tell of a great wolf that once terrorized the region of Verbrek known as the Mourning Ridge, a jagged spine of wooded hills that dominate the area near the source of the Ulvflod River and hug the edge of the southern border with Sithicus.

The massive wolf, black as pitch and larger than a drafthorse prowled along the scattered hamlets that clung to the edge of the Ulvflod, causing havoc and death in its wake each autumn. Verbrekers in the region long dreaded the coming of the beastly creature, which they called "The Harvester", as it came nearly to the day at the time of their meager end of the year harvests.

A group of Outlander adventurers passing through the region heard of the local plight, and swore that they would take it upon themselves to rid the area of the great wolf. A long hunt ensued, lasting over many weeks. Each time the adventurers thought they were closing on the wolf, it managed to evading them, blending into the dark woods with an uncanny ease.

After much strife, the adventurers eventually came across the den of the beast, and slew it in a hard-fought battle amongst the ancient and fog-strewn pines. A ranger amongst the group, skilled in the ways of leatherworking, noted the properties of the hide of the monstrous creature, and skinned it then and there.

Unfortunately, when the adventurers returned to the hamlet from which they heard of the Harvester, they found it utterly destroyed... a pack of lycanthropes evidently had ravaged it, slaughtering the inhabitants to the last woman and child. Revenge, perhaps, for the killing of the great Harvester wolf.

Sets of darkly toned armor such as these are said to be from the hide of the Harvester, and indeed, their coloring is as black as pitch and extremely difficult to see in dark lighting. Very supple, they are quite effective at stalking through the woods, letting one slip quietly over branches or rocks. The fur they are made from, however, seems to bristle near arcane objects.

Statistics:
Decreased Skill Modifier : Use Magic Device [-5]
Skill Bonus : Animal Empathy [+2]
Skill Bonus : Hide [+1]
Skill Bonus : Move Silently [+2]
Material [Leather]

Appearance:
Neck : 000
Torso : 028
Belt : 000
Pelvis : 000
Shoulder : 033
Bicep : 044
Forearm : 040
Hand : 003
Thighs: 025
Shins: 036
Feet: 011
Robe:047
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/8c1d/n5gb3675w57aj8c7g.jpg) (https://www.mediafire.com/view/?n5gb3675w57aj8c)
Leather 1: Dark Grey
Leather 2: Dark Grey
Cloth 1: Black
Cloth 2: Black
Metal 1: Bleach
Metal 2: Bleach


Total Item Cost:
1000


Item Name:  Amulet of Blessed Refuge
Item Type: Amulet

Description:  Worn by those of pure heart and dedication, these amulets were said to have been blessed by Anchorites of the Second Revelation of Ezra, based in Mordentshire.

The depiction is of an image of a silver blade surrounded by a delicate wreath of belladonna, shielded by a small piece of tinted glass in a bronze frame. In the dark of night, the glass seems to glow softly in a gentle green hue.

Gifted to those that show true commitment to the aspects of aid, cooperation, and dedication, one can feel a sense of ease and peace when wearing these amulets. At the same time, there is felt a pull to forget distractions that are not placed at the benefits of others.

"Blessed are those that accept Her grace and guidance, and shun the temptations of the Legion, " reads an inscription on the back.


Statistics:
Skill Bonus : Concentration [+2]
Skill Bonus : Heal [+2]
Skill Bonus : Influence [+2]
Decreased Skill Modifier :  Antagonize [-2]
Decreased Skill Modifier :  Hide [-2]
Decreased Skill Modifier :  Use Magic Device [-2]
Light [Dim (5m)] [Color : Green]
Material [Bronze]
Material [Silver]
Material [Glass]


Appearance:
iit_neck_237
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/7b63/rey4rqc2znem4104g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/rey4rqc2znem410/2ndsect.png)

Total Item Cost:
1440


Item Name:  Shard of Sacrifice
Item Type: Longsword

Description:  Much can be achieved through great risk and sacrifice, and few know this as well as those dedicated to the lessons of the goddess Ezra, the apparent mortal who achieved what none before her could : Divinity, though at great price. Forever bound to the Mists of Death, she was a martyr for her followers.

One such group of her faithful, a cadre of Templar Knights of the Last Redoubt, the church that Teodorus Raine's established in Nevuchar Springs, were bestowed a set of blessed blades to battle the Legion of Night abroad.

Tasked by the clergy to destroy a dangerous and insidious necromantic cult that had been assaulting members of the faith, the "Last Knights" as they boldly declared themselves, set out on a long journey to eradicate the cultists. With bravery and determination, they brought down the justice of Ezra upon the wicked cultists time and time again, chasing them through the far reaches of the wilderness, and routing them from several hidden lairs.

Cunning though is the Legion, and their success did not last. An ambush set by the necromancers deep in an ancient system of tunnels under the Mountains of Misery in Darkon took the Last Knights by surprise, inflicting heavy losses amongst the Templars. A single Zealot covered their retreat to the surface, holding off the necromancers, and knowing full well that he would die to save the others. The dark energies of the cultists arcane magic tore into the lone Templar, draining and weakening him with terrible force, but he fought with iron discipline until his last breath. Very few Templars escaped the slaughter, but those that did knew that it was only because of the determined sacrifice of their brother.

In the years since the loss, a few shattered remains of their blessed blades have been found by explorers. They have been occasionally, reforged with other metals back into swords that are potent against the Legion, but carry echoes of the sacrifice and audacity of those dedicated Templars.


Statistics:
Attack Bonus vs. Alignment Group : Evil [+1]
Bonus Feat : Extra Smiting
Damage Bonus vs. Alignment Group : Evil [1d4 Damage] [Type: Divine]
Saving Throw Bonus : Mind Affecting [+1]
Damage Vulnerability : Negative Energy [50% Damage Vulnerability]
Decreased AC : AC Dodge Modifier [-2]
Decreased Saving Throws : Death [-1]
Decreased Saving Throws : Negative Energy [-1]
Material [Steel]
Material [Iron]
Quality [Masterwork]

Appearance:
Top 7/9
Middle 16/3
Bottom 10/4
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/6508/8tjytk66jvcesjy4g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/8tjytk66jvcesjy/swwwww.png)

Total Item Cost:
4372


Item Name:  Burden of Faith
Item Type: Tower Shield

Description:  The Mists hold many secrets in their depths. Sights both dreadful and wondrous are rumored to be found in their expanse, but few are those that would brave them, and fewer still are those that may return.

Amongst those that do venture into the Mists with purpose are those Acolytes of Ezra that wish to become full Anchorites. Those that are either blessed enough (or lucky enough) to manifest Her Shield after their trials in the Mists are proclaimed members of the Ezrite clergy.

There is however, a tale of a former Acolyte that experienced an event so harrowing in the Mists, that they refused to speak hardly any word of it when they finally emerged, and as the tale goes, abandoned the faith after the terrible ordeal.

Though likely warped by time and repeated tellings, it is said that the Acolyte did witness shambling undead, wearing the tattered and bloodstained armour of Ezrite Anchorites and Templars... their rotted faces holding orbs of red mist where their eyes once were. The undead Ezrites were said to have carried towering shields plated with silver and steel, with five stars emblazoned on the polished metal, which may be seen as a sign of the heresy of the Fifth Sect.

The Acolyte fled in terror, heard from by few again...

In the years since the rarely discussed encounter, a few shields closely resembling that which the Acolyte described have turned up in various hands, somehow having been claimed by those who entered the Mists. The tower shields are heavily polished and smooth, their surfaces quite reflective. They seem to absorb heat quite readily though, and when exposed to flame, they almost instantly become unbearably hot. Occasionally, even a light touch to their surface will also produce a shocking effect, likely due to their extreme smoothness. Such shields are difficult to manage, requiring much of one's attention.


Statistics:
AC Bonus [+3]
Damage Vulnerability : Electrical [50% Damage Vulnerability]
Damage Vulnerability : Fire [50% Damage Vulnerability]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Concentration [-2]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Search [-2]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Spot [-2]
Material [Silver]
Material [Steel]
Material [Wood, Pine]


Appearance:
iashto_041
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/8b50/2pbospxkz75pp5f4g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/2pbospxkz75pp5f/sdhield1.png)

Total Item Cost:
4900


Item Name:  Corvian Helm
Item Type: Helmet

Description:  At one point well known for its artisans and craftsmen, Corvia is one of Darkon's most striking settlements. Natural volcanic formations that have eroded into spires of glassy black stone vary in height from only a few feet to nearly two hundred feet at the heart of the city, presenting a unique sight. Nestled amongst the spires, and indeed, hollowed out into them, early dwarven settlers did construct warehouses, workshops, and homes, stretching into the sky.

Many raw materials traded along the once prosperous roads of Il Aluk before the Requiem highlighted the masterful skill of the dwarves in many pieces, including helms like these.

Wrought out of heavy steel, and trimmed with bronze weaved amongst the helm's visor, they are remarkable pieces, though somewhat restrictive to quick movement. Reinforced by several padded layers of the finest leathers, and silk, they do fine work at absorbing the blows of weapons such as maces or hammers.

Statistics:
AC Bonus vs. Damage Type : Bludgeoning [+3]
Damage Resistance :Bludgeoning [Amount: 1]
Decreased Saving Throws: Specific: Reflex [-2]
Material [Steel]
Material [Bronze]
Material [Leather]
Material [Silk]

Appearance:
helm_028
Metal 1 : Dark Steel
Metal 2 : Dark Gold
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/fee6/y8j26e6x7l4ejss4g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/y8j26e6x7l4ejss/hellmm.png)

Total Item Cost:
2442


Item Name: Medallion of the Grasses
Item Type: Amulet

Description:  Vague tales suggest that amulets such as these were used by sects of reclusive monster hunters in a realm beyond the Mists in order to increase their sensitivity to magical beasts or illusions of the arcane. Whilst it is difficult to discern as to if this is indeed one of such fabled artifacts, it does seem to hum very softly and emit a small amount of heat when in the presence of the arcane. 

Silver medallions of this sort are very well detailed, displaying an artistic depiction of an animal, generally.

Statistics:
Arcane Spell Failure [+5%]
Skill Bonus : Search [+2]
Skill Bonus : Spellcraft [+2]
Skill Bonus : Use Magic Device [+2]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Move Silently [-2]
Material [Silver]

Appearance:
iit_neck_089
(https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/8956/dye9q9er21dr3g34g.jpg) (http://www.mediafire.com/view/dye9q9er21dr3g3/ammmm.png)

Total Item Cost:
2160
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Pav on August 06, 2017, 12:13:24 PM
Some mid-tier rogue items.

Manual of Mechanisms
Quote
Fashion Accessory

Appearance
Top 1/1
Mid 9/3
Bottom 1/1

Skill Bonus: Disable Trap +3
Material: Paper
Use Limitation Class: Rogue
563

This book contains a theoretical knowledge and practical advice on the design and disarmament of almost any trap conceivable. Its dense verbage and complicated diagrams means it is only of use to people with some understanding of such mechanisms already.

Manual of Mechanisms, 2nd Edition
Quote
Fashion Accessory

Appearance
Top 1/1
Mid 9/3
Bottom 1/1

Skill Bonus: Disable Trap +5
Material: Paper
Use Limitation Class: Rogue

This book contains a theoretical knowledge and practical advice on the design and disarmament of almost any trap conceivable. Its dense verbage and complicated diagrams means it is only of use to people with some understanding of such mechanisms already. This version is the 2nd, updated edition; 'Now with 101 MORE uses for pressure plates.'

Lesser Boots of Muffling
Quote
Boots

Appearance
Top 1/1
Mid 4/1
Bottom 3/3

Skill Bonus Hide +2
Skill Bonus Move Silently +3
Material: Leather

1563

These calfskin boots are soft and supple to the touch. They bear a minor enchantment which deadens the wearer's footsteps. They also, remarkably, seem to leave no footsteps behind, but whether this is by happy accident or design is unclear.

Greater Boots of Muffling
Quote
Boots

Appearance
Top 1/1
Mid 4/1
Bottom 3/3

Skill Bonus Hide +3
Skill Bonus Move Silently +4
Material: Leather
3063

These calfskin boots are soft and supple to the touch. They bear a minor enchantment which deadens the wearer's footsteps. They also, remarkably, seem to leave no footsteps behind, but whether this is by happy accident or design is unclear.

Lesser Cloak of the Chameleon
Quote
Cloak

Appearance
Ragged

Skill Bonus Hide +3
Material: Hide

563

This cloak is made from a soft reptile leather which changes colour to match the wearer's environment, making them harder to see. What manner of beast was slain to harvest such a miraculous material doesn't bare thinking about.

Greater Cloak of the Chameleon
Quote
Cloak

Appearance
Ragged

Skill Bonus Hide +4
Material: Hide

1001

This cloak is made from a soft reptile leather which changes colour to match the wearer's environment, making them harder to see. What manner of beast was slain to harvest such a miraculous material doesn't bare thinking about.

Lesser Safecracker Ring
Quote
Ring

Appearance
186

Skill Bonus Listen +1
Skill Bonus Open Lock +2
Material: Brass
Use Limitation Class: Rogue
703

This ingenious ring was designed by an enterprising, but absent-minded gnomish tinkerer. She was always forgetting the combinations to the many safes in which she housed her most precious inventions, so she invented these rings so she could break into them easier. Unfortunately for her, it never occured they could be used by other, less honest folk, to rob her of her life's work.

Greater Safecracker Ring
Quote
Ring

Appearance
186

Skill Bonus Listen +2
Skill Bonus Open Lock +3
Material: Brass
Use Limitation Class: Rogue
1953

This ingenious ring was designed by an enterprising, but absent-minded gnomish tinkerer. She was always forgetting the combinations to the many safes in which she housed her most precious inventions, so she invented these rings so she could break into them easier. Unfortunately for her, it never occured they could be used by other, less honest folk, to rob her of her life's work.

Filcher's Flighty Friends
Quote
Glove

Appearance
157

Skill Bonus Pick Pocket +3
Material: Leather
Use Limitation Class Rogue
563

These gloves bear a minor enchantment which cause small objects, such as coins and gems, to be ineoriably drawn towards the wearer's hands.. almost as if they 'wish' to be stolen. This, at least, was the justification of the original owner, who swiftly lost his hands after being caught-out once too often. Since he no longer had any need for his collection, and deprived of his source of income, he was forced to sell them on.

Filcher's Trusty Friends
Quote
Glove

Appearance
157

Skill Bonus Pick Pocket +5
Material: Leather
Use Limitation Class Rogue
1563

These gloves bear a minor enchantment which cause small objects, such as coins and gems, to be ineoriably drawn towards the wearer's hands.. almost as if they 'wish' to be stolen. This, at least, was the justification of the original owner, who swiftly lost his hands after being caught-out once too often. Since he no longer had any need for his collection, and deprived of his source of income, he was forced to sell them on.

Lesser Nocturnal Cowl
Quote
Helmet

Appearance
033

Skill Bonus Hide +2
Skill Bonus Search +1
Material: Cloth
Use Limitation Class Rogue
565

This grey hood is of uncertain providence, having originated beyond the realm of the Mists. Some say it was stolen from an evil goddess of shadow and trickery by the greatest thief to have ever lived, though if true, its power must have waned over the ages. Others say it is nothing but simple enchanted cloth. Either way, it aids the wearer in going unnoticed.

Greater Nocturnal Cowl
Quote
Helmet

Appearance
033

Skill Bonus Hide +3
Skill Bonus Search +2
Material: Cloth
Use Limitation Class Rogue
1565

This grey hood is of uncertain providence, having originated beyond the realm of the Mists. Some say it was stolen from an evil goddess of shadow and trickery by the greatest thief to have ever lived, though if true, its power must have waned over the ages. Others say it is nothing but simple enchanted cloth. Either way, it aids the wearer in going unnoticed.

While those are all fantastic additions in my eyes, I would have a greater gap in value between the lesser and greater versions to justify their existence, more than just +1 in skill adjustments. It would make the lesser versions, in a small amount of time, become vendor trash, as the greater ones are not that much rarer in the loot table due to their close values.

If a dev decides to implement any of these, take that under consideration.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on August 06, 2017, 12:13:40 PM
Inquisitor, thanks for the suggestions. I'd like you to explain why you feel these should be added to the module though.

From my point of view, there are already a large array of stealth gear allowing to bring both Hide and Move Silently skills to stellar levels. How would the module benefit from raising them even further? Same for the disable device items. It would only serve to make some dungeons easier to go through, I am not convinced at all that would be good for the module.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Pav on August 06, 2017, 12:16:41 PM
Inquisitor, thanks for the suggestions. I'd like you to explain why you feel these should be added to the module though.

From my point of view, there are already a large array of stealth gear allowing to bring both Hide and Move Silently skills to stellar levels. How would the module benefit from raising them even further? Same for the disable device items. It would only serve to make some dungeons easier to go through, I am not convinced at all that would be good for the module.

...There really isn't a large array of them. They have become so rare and so difficult to acquire that stealth dependent characters in their mid teens still don't have basic accoutrements. Many items that are supposedly still in the game haven't dropped in close to years.

You said yourself in the Discord, that if people strongly believe that there isn't enough rogue gear in the loot tables or in circulation, such items should be submitted.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Norture on August 06, 2017, 12:19:20 PM
Inquisitor, thanks for the suggestions. I'd like you to explain why you feel these should be added to the module though.

From my point of view, there are already a large array of stealth gear allowing to bring both Hide and Move Silently skills to stellar levels. How would the module benefit from raising them even further? Same for the disable device items. It would only serve to make some dungeons easier to go through, I am not convinced at all that would be good for the module.



Stealth gear is less common because we have much more available loot then we used to. To have more stealth loot come up, we would need more stealth gear in the loot table. You can always help with that by giving item suggestion in this thread :)
http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=44496.0

There also isn't a good even spread of stealth gear. There are +1 or +2 items, or the rare endgame items. Not a whole lot in between, which is what he covers. Especially for boots and cloak items. The belt and chest pieces are pretty uncommon, but the boot and cloak slots are in dire need of more mid-tier options that actually drop.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on August 06, 2017, 12:48:08 PM
You said yourself in the Discord, that if people strongly believe that there isn't enough rogue gear in the loot tables or in circulation, such items should be submitted.

Of course, and it is a good thing it's done, but I will still play the devil's advocate and question everything, always with the goal of coming with the best solution possible in the end.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Erebus on August 06, 2017, 01:29:13 PM
Inquisitor, thanks for the suggestions. I'd like you to explain why you feel these should be added to the module though.

From my point of view, there are already a large array of stealth gear allowing to bring both Hide and Move Silently skills to stellar levels. How would the module benefit from raising them even further? Same for the disable device items. It would only serve to make some dungeons easier to go through, I am not convinced at all that would be good for the module.

Hi!
It is my understanding that there is little to no mid-tier Rogue gear (+2-4 bonuses). This has led to massive price inflation in the player-to-player market for high-tier Rogue items (Those of +5 to +6).

The selection of items I submitted fit into that middle category, with the intention of filling what I perceive to be a gap in the loot table, with particular reference to stealth gear.

Regarding the Open Lock and Disable Trap items, yes indeed they would make some dungeons easier to get through. Open Lock and Disable Trap are signature skills for the Rogue, and opening locks and disabling traps are an important function they fulfil in dungeons on this server. These Rogue-only items are intended to makes rogues better and what they should be doing best, elevating their usefulness and desirability for groups above characters with cross-classed skills and spells.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on August 06, 2017, 02:02:41 PM
Don't forget to include weaknesses to your items too. A good balanced items has a few drawbacks as much as strengths. A +2 here, should mean a -1 there in return. Ideally in skills that are both useful at the same time.

//Edited: I can accept a +2 item without drawbacks. But anything +3 or more should have some weaknesses too. That is just my personal view though.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Norture on August 06, 2017, 02:09:39 PM
The items are already well below their value threshold, why do they need additional negatives?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on August 06, 2017, 02:29:31 PM
It's not so much for their gold value, but their impact in game.

Also because adding different weaknesses allows to include more items of the same type and allow more gear customization options to players.

If I add only a +3 hide belt. Everyone will want just that belt. If I add a +3 Hide/-1 parry, +3 Hide/-1 tumble, +3 Hide/-1 discipline. Already it gives us 3 options and insures not everyone is wearing the exact same gear. And they will drop more often too, cause their value is lower.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: BadStrref on August 06, 2017, 02:53:57 PM
Inquisitor, thanks for the suggestions. I'd like you to explain why you feel these should be added to the module though.

From my point of view, there are already a large array of stealth gear allowing to bring both Hide and Move Silently skills to stellar levels. How would the module benefit from raising them even further? Same for the disable device items. It would only serve to make some dungeons easier to go through, I am not convinced at all that would be good for the module.

They key words here are stellar levels. It is true that we already have potent stealth gear that is extremely rare or simply not present in the loot tables at all. (The Cloak of Elven Kind, Abber Moccasins, Cape of Silence.) Player Characters are likely to never see or hear of these items and much less posses them- The stuff of myth. 

Beneath this we have the "high-tier" items. Bonus are in the +5 range. Included are the Belt of the Ebon Tiger, Belt of the Desert Cat, Hectors Wary Tread, and the Greater Mantle of the Forest Walker. PC's can hope to have these towards the end of their characters career. You might not have them but odds are you know someone who does. They may appear at auction from time to time and run a PC 200k-500k.

Then there are the Belt of the Wraith and the Cape of the Night. These have the skill bonuses to be inline with "mid-tier" items (+3-4), however, they are bloated with spell charges making their value and higher than those listed above. Yes, the 3/3 belt with spell charges is rarer the 5/5 belt. These items should either have their charges removed or comparable items added without them to fill this gap.

Mid-tier items. "Ilynadrathyl's Grandeur" This one is great- I've only seen it come from Sithicus sadly, might just be my experience. Stalker's/Sniper's Short Bow are Prefect. There are no belts/capes/books/helm that other wise fit in here. It encompasses a huge portion of a characters life span and is woefully lacking.

Beneath this we have the starter items. +1-2 hoods available from merchants. +1-2 hide capes available from merchants. Mantle of the Forest Walker. Cat's Walk boots.

This list isn't exhaustive but represents a fairly accurate portrait of the types of gear a stealther could expect to come across. With in it you'll see that there is a rather large gulf between what one could expect to find for sale in the Outskirts and what one will find at an RVT auction. A middle ground needs be to made. We're not raising the ceiling any higher- simply building a ladder to it from the ground. Players love finding gear and I think having some more mid tier items will allow then to flesh out their character's skills at several points during their life span. Cosmic's suggestions go a long way towards accomplishing that.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on August 06, 2017, 04:21:54 PM
I just did a review of all stealth objects in the Rogue items loot table and I agree there is a lot of gaps that needs to be filled. I will work with The Inquisitor to adjust what he proposed, and add some new content as I see fit. (Inqui! Stay tuned for a coming private message).
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Dumas on August 06, 2017, 04:48:52 PM
Will we be seeing some of the proposed items in the thread at the time of the hack update?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on August 06, 2017, 08:03:27 PM
Will we be seeing some of the proposed items in the thread at the time of the hack update?

Most likely.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Barovian Beggar on October 09, 2017, 10:30:49 AM
Can we have craftable mauls?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on October 09, 2017, 02:22:02 PM
Can we have craftable mauls?

It's not in the plans right now. Given that Mauls do not benefits from from the combat feats, it is usually best to have mauls with unique properties in the loot tables.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Pav on November 14, 2017, 03:06:48 PM
Quote
Item name: Amulet of Jealousy

Item type: Amulet

Description of the item: This once pristine amulet is now corroded and worn, a rather unimpressive sight to see.  As the legend goes, a distant desert wasteland was once home to magic users of great power.  These spellcasters, all known to be beautiful women, are said to have drawn their power from strange and powerful amulets dedicated to a goddess they served.  This particular amulet was at some point "acquired" by a cabal of male sorcerers and somehow altered to serve their own ends.  Strangely, the once vibrant green gem set in the center of the amulet now glows a dim red color.

Statistics:
Bonus Spell Slot: Sorcerer Level 1
Bonus Spell Slot: Sorcerer Level 2
Gender Limitation: Male
Light: Dim (5m) Red


Appearance: iit_neck_034

I'd remove the red color glow.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: SingASongOfDeath on November 14, 2017, 05:29:22 PM
It's meant to be a male variant of the Amulet of Isis, which has a green glow.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: noah25 on January 09, 2018, 09:30:37 PM
Is the belt of the swordsman still on the server and I just suck at finding it? I like that the damage types are dispersed among different gear sets so you can gather them all(which can be difficult but ultimately necessary given how effective it can be). Bludgeoning just seems significantly easier to find than the others, though, may be the places I am  going.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on January 10, 2018, 05:57:53 AM
Is the belt of the swordsman still on the server and I just suck at finding it? I like that the damage types are dispersed among different gear sets so you can gather them all(which can be difficult but ultimately necessary given how effective it can be). Bludgeoning just seems significantly easier to find than the others, though, may be the places I am  going.

I confirm both the swordsman's belt, inertial barrier belt and Gobalski bracers have been pulled out of the treasuries. Archers and Brawler's belts remain as do the robes providing damage reductions to all 3 types of physical damage. I will consult with my fellow developers as to the exact reasons, but this was likely done on purpose. The very best item providing that slashing damage reduction does remain, but certainly requires you to travel in more dangerous areas.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: buyonegetonefree on January 10, 2018, 06:12:16 AM
There are three items that grant 5/- dr vs slashing. Those are archers belt, belt of inertial barrier and cloak of black rose. Was the cloak pulled away as well?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on January 10, 2018, 06:29:54 AM
There are three items that grant 5/- dr vs slashing. Those are archers belt, belt of inertial barrier and cloak of black rose. Was the cloak pulled away as well?

My post was quite explicit. Only the 3 items I mentioned were removed as far as I know.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: noah25 on January 10, 2018, 07:26:02 PM
good to know, thanks MAB :)
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on January 10, 2018, 09:47:58 PM
Actually after verification, the Belt of Inertial Barrier is still in the treasuries, and it appears the Swordsman belt was removed by mistake. It will be reintroduced shortly.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: aprogressivist on January 10, 2018, 10:07:12 PM
Actually after verification, the Belt of Inertial Barrier is still in the treasuries, and it appears the Swordsman belt was removed by mistake. It will be reintroduced shortly.

And Gobalski Bracers, are they still in, deliberately removed, or accidentally removed? Just to ask...
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on January 21, 2018, 12:59:35 AM
Thanks for the latest suggestions Dumas.

Regarding the Belt of Grasping Ivy:

I am always reticent about adding new items granting spell slots for numerous reasons. Foremost being balancing issues. Compared to charged items, a free spell of your choice, every day, is a hundred time more useful, but benefits only a single casting class. Consider too that any item that freely gives a spell slot of the highest spell level a particular class can cast, Ranger in this case, is way too powerful. This opens the possibility of having level 4 rangers casting spells they ought only cast as of level 14th. I speak only for myself here, but I do not want to see that in game.

As for druids, I can definitively attest the very last thing they need is yet again an item granting spells slots. My own druid currently has 6 bonus spells slots with his equipped item, 2x 2nd level, 2x 3rd level and 2x 7th level and I could get more by using different robes. I have been able to use the 3rd and 7th level spells before I could actually cast them on my own and that made a world of difference. Your proposal would add a 4th level spell slot on top of that. It's too much.

I would consider a variation of this item as an Amulet to offer an alternative to Hunta's Guardian.

Bonus Spell Slot of Level : Druid [Level 3]
Bonus Spell Slot of Level : Ranger [Level 3]
Decreased Saving Throws : Fire [-4]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Concentration [-4]
[Some other bonus TBD, to raise the cost to a level similar to that of the Hunta's Guardian]
Use Limitation: Class : Druid
Use Limitation Class : Ranger
Material [Wicker]

This way at least, it would provide options to the players without increasing the number (and level) of bonus spell slots they can already reach.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Dumas on January 21, 2018, 12:20:34 PM
Thanks for the latest suggestions Dumas.

Regarding the Belt of Grasping Ivy:

I am always reticent about adding new items granting spell slots for numerous reasons. Foremost being balancing issues. Compared to charged items, a free spell of your choice, every day, is a hundred time more useful, but benefits only a single casting class. Consider too that any item that freely gives a spell slot of the highest spell level a particular class can cast, Ranger in this case, is way too powerful. This opens the possibility of having level 4 rangers casting spells they ought only cast as of level 14th. I speak only for myself here, but I do not want to see that in game.

As for druids, I can definitively attest the very last thing they need is yet again an item granting spells slots. My own druid currently has 6 bonus spells slots with his equipped item, 2x 2nd level, 2x 3rd level and 2x 7th level and I could get more by using different robes. I have been able to use the 3rd and 7th level spells before I could actually cast them on my own and that made a world of difference. Your proposal would add a 4th level spell slot on top of that. It's too much.

I would consider a variation of this item as an Amulet to offer an alternative to Hunta's Guardian.

Bonus Spell Slot of Level : Druid [Level 3]
Bonus Spell Slot of Level : Ranger [Level 3]
Decreased Saving Throws : Fire [-4]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Concentration [-4]
[Some other bonus TBD, to raise the cost to a level similar to that of the Hunta's Guardian]
Use Limitation: Class : Druid
Use Limitation Class : Ranger
Material [Wicker]

This way at least, it would provide options to the players without increasing the number (and level) of bonus spell slots they can already reach.

Thanks for the advice MAB. Didn't realize there were so many druid spell bonus items already, and I can see that it would throw balance off to offer any more slots.. especially for rangers that manage to get a hold of one of these outside the level where they'd normally get access to those spells. As such, I've followed your suggestions, and modified the item on the Request Thread into a necklace instead. Went with damage resistance to slashing for an additional bonus, as it makes sense with the story I wrote for it. That puts it pretty close to the cost of Hunta's Guardian.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Stygian Messiah on February 04, 2018, 09:31:18 PM
Item Name: Spiderweave Vest

Item Type: Medium Armor

Statistics:
AC Bonus [+2]
Skill Bonus : Move Silently [+3]
Immunity : Specific Spell [Web]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Disable Trap[-5]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Open Lock [-5]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Set Trap [-5]
Decreased Skill Modifier : Pick Pocket [-5]
Material [Silk]

Medium armor makes the MS bonus +1 or nil, and the negatives down to -7 or -8

If this piece is catered to rogue or rogue based, web immunity isn't a strong enough selling point. The web immunity gives the item an artificial inflation value, which will clog a loot node from spawning something that might actually be used.

But I checked with Vistani Rapid Pawn LLC, and they can't wait.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Dumas on February 04, 2018, 09:47:17 PM
Hmmm.. yeah, I failed to realize that medium armor would give penalties on top of the negatives. Did some messing around with the stats, and changed the description a bit to reflect. Scrapped the web immunity, upped the AC by 1, as well as added penalties to Heal because it needs nimble hand movements, and added reflex, to reflect better movement from its light weight.

Intending for a good Rogue usable protective armor if they choose it, but at the sacrifice of their common skills. Perhaps suitable for a druid as well, due to their oaths against metal.

Made the updates on the Request thread.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on February 06, 2018, 11:13:59 PM
A few comments on some of your suggestions Nem.

1) Pain’s Last Kiss
The On Hit cast Spell property is always to be avoided like the plague. Some builds can reach a very high number of attacks per round, and you give them the possibility to "cast" that spell that same amount of time per rounds. Unbalanced versus casters that can still cast only one spell a round and definitively not too good for server performance issues.

2) Witch Seeker
The dreaded flaming whip of the Chaotic Good Tepestani inquisition would be useable by evil only? I think not. I also think the focus of the whip should not be so much Evil creatures, but Fey and Elves.

3) Rippenspalter (and anything else with negative ability score adjustments)

I am not a fan of decreased ability scores properties on items as they are too easy to circumvent. They do however have the advantage of lowering an item cost and that increases the chance of seeing the weapon drop, so I am willing to accept a few now and then. But I must be very clear here that I do not wish that to become a trend to lower an item's cost so keep it to a minimum. And of those I would accept, never in a dump stat like Charisma. I suggest you replace most of those penalties by a different kind.

4) Fate of Traitors

You'll be happy to learn that EO has just changed the Weight Increase property so it affects pricing. This one would thus cost a bit less than 4534 gp. But 75% DC 16 stun on a somewhat popular weapon like a greataxe that is easily buffed with spells and/or varnish, that's too powerful. I'd go for 25% DC 14/ 1 round at most.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Nemesis 24 on February 06, 2018, 11:34:32 PM
I thought I'd adjusted the witch seeker with regards to its evil alignment restriction - I guess not!

In regards to the stat drops - yes, they're dump stats, but they do preclude the cost reaching an overly high level.  They're more in line with things like the Imaskari blade - and having stats dropped down that won't -overly- affect the users of the weapon (except in certain case scenarios).  If more useful stats are dropped - strength, dexterity, or con scores - then these weapons are going to be ending up on the useless dump pile, and won't be used.  I'd hope to avoid that.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: bocian on February 07, 2018, 12:04:57 PM
How about giving these whips improved disarm, since default one is given to everyone?
I'd also consider adding some more bonuses to them, because I'm yet to see a character that successfully uses a whip in combat.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Nemesis 24 on February 07, 2018, 01:36:34 PM
With regards to making some items cheaper and such like, and creating some 1000 to 2000 gold items to 'fill in the gaps'.  Unfortunately I cannot quite see the point due to crafted gear.

If we go off the item creation and the costing associated, lets look at the following-

Crafted steel longsword with silver guilding, crafted steel bastard sword with silver guilding, crafted steel greatsword with silver guilding.

The Longsword costs (with +1 vs shapechanger, 1d4 slashing)- 2494

Bastard Sword (with +1 vs shapechanger, 1d6 slashing) - 4936

Greatsword (with +1 vs shapechanger, 1d8 slashing) - 10772

As can be shown, the increase is nothing short of exponential when it comes to the greatsword.  The increased slashing makes that much of a difference, perhaps leading to the dearth of useable greatswords.

The point of this is, however, is to establish a baseline.  If crafted weapons are worth this much, then the lootable items should, at least in some cases, be approaching similar value.

The reasoning behind this being that enchanted items are and will be top tier, always.  An enchanted steel electrum guilded longsword is worth 47268.  An adamantium platinum guilded greatsword is worth a staggering 196912.  There is no gear that can compete with that and rightly so.

But there 'should' be gear that competes with crafted gear.  That means the baseline for a greatsword should be at *least* 7700, for that's what a greatsword with 1d8 slashing costs.  Crafted gear is cheaper, readily available without having to look for it, and on request.  But finding a weapon that is an actual viable alternative should be possible.

We have a lot of trash loot in the table that is objectively worthless.  Possibly useful to a level 2, but by level 4 its more than conceivable to find crafted gear, and after that, there is nothing valuable until that item is enchanted at level 14 or higher.  If there is to be something that fills that in between gap, it needs to be -

1.  General purpose, not niche
2.  Have a value using the crafted item value as a baseline, within a reasonable limit
3.  Not have maluses that make it useless in a state of general purpose.

1000 to 2000 gold items are, however as shown by the cost comparison, nearly worthless at present.  I've managed to make a *few* minor ones, but they are likely going to beaten by a crafted equivalent.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Dread on March 31, 2018, 08:36:54 AM
Spoiler: show

Now I've finally worked out how the toolset basically functions, I've come up with a an item. I wanted to make something that was similar to the Blade of the Cattle, but in a ranged weapon.

Kethyar (Sithican for 'Pride')
(https://i.imgur.com/JlRYpKL.png)
+3 AB vs Humans
Mighty +5
Use Limitation: Elf, Half Elf
Decreased Skill Modifier: Influence [-4], Tumble [-4]
Material – Wood, Ash
Quality – Very Good
Cost – 6046

Description: Kethyar, or 'Pride' in the Common tongue, is the result of long lifetimes and frigid outlooks. Born of the Sithican people's disdain for those not of their kin (held for many years), the bow's construction has been refined for a single purpose - killing humans. While Sithican life is defined by its apathy and coldness, they continue to train warbands. They hold to their traditions for reasons they have long forgotten, believing that Sithicus will remain in spite of any threat. How this longbow was taken from the marksman's hands will never be known, but one can only wonder what sort of attacker could have pried it from such long-lived people.

The bow stands at a great height, and is clearly constructed for Elven hands. Even in the hands of Elves, however, it is somewhat cumbersome to wield. The weight of an unflinching burden presses heavily upon this weapon, as though it bears a fragment of its people's curse. One may struggle to speak impassioned or persuasive words while holding it, knowing but a taste of the elves' ennui.


Lovely! For the rest of you who are wondering what I'm looking for or what I might be interested in adding, miscellaneous consumables you can find that are useful to others, I'd be really big on, along with useful low-level items to fill in the gaps for what people might need, and new, neat things like this.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Dread on March 31, 2018, 11:47:09 AM
Spoiler: show


I have been toiling in my secret laboratory on a number of miscellaneous consumables. For your delectation..

Beguiling Musk
Quote
This bottle contains a thin oily perfume. Its scent is difficult to define; at once both floral and earthy, sweet and deep. Whatever it's made of, it has a remarkable soporific effect, beguiling all those around to the wearer.
   Thin Misc
   thinmisc 073
   Cast Spell: Glibness (7), 5 charge / use
   Material: Crystal
   Charges 15   
   Cost 3937

Boritsi Tasting Spoon
Quote
Amongst the upper echelons of Borcan society, death by poisoning is a constant danger. The Boritsi family were the first to invent these fine silver spoons, which tarnish instantly should they come into contact with any poison. Unsurprisingly the idea proved popular, and have since spread to other families and even abroad.
   Thin Misc   
   thinkmisc 033
   Cast Spell: Detect Poison, 1 charge / use
   Material: Silver
   Charges 5
   Cost 376

Blessed Chalice
Quote
Many religions make use of holy water for ritual purification, ceremonial rites and in confronting the unholy. It is unclear to which god this slightly battered gilded chalice was dedicated, and how it came to be discarded. It stills holds a small amount of divine power, and can instantly bless any water held within it; transforming it into potent holy water.
   Thin Misc
   thinmisc 013
   Cast Spell: Holy Water, 1 charge / use
   Material: Gold   
   Charges 10
   Cost 26

Bottled Pixie
Quote
This bottle contains the shriveled husk of a small fey creature. Vigorously shaking the bottle releases a cloud of luminous powder which sticks to everything. Even a cursory inspection of the bottle reveals that the neck is clearly too small for the creature to have gotten inside in the first place.
   Thin Misc   
   thinmisc 016
   Cast Spell: Faerie Fire (2), 1 charge / use
   Material: Glass
   Charges 3
   Cost 1501

Copying Quill
Quote
This ornamental quill is bedecked with jewels, making it completely impractical for writing with. The quill holds a marvelous secret however. Upon speaking the correct command word the quill will stand on end and diligently create a perfect copy of almost any document. These quills are prized by many a lazy clerk the Core over, from the contract-makers of Borca to the Ezrite illuminators of Port-a-Lucine.
   Thin Misc
   thinmisc 051   
   Cast Spell: Amanuensis, 1 charge / use
   Material: Ivory
   Material: Gem
   Charges 5
   Cost 376

Dancing Blade
Quote
This simple dagger hides a remarkable secret. Upon command it will leap from the wielder's hand and into the air, where it will continue to do as the wielder commands. Once little more than a novelty, adventurers have found myriad uses for enchanted daggers of this type.
   Dagger
      Top 1/1
      Middle 5/1
      Bottom 5/1
      Charges 6
   Cast Spell: Shelgarns Persistent Blade 2 charge / use
   Material: Steel
   Charges 6      
   Cost 1804

Divine Compact
Quote
This golden scroll shimmers slightly in the light. The beautiful, flowing script describes an understanding between the original author and a celestial being. Perhaps the being will still honour it.
   Medium Misc   
   midmisc 131
   Cast Spell, Planar Binding, Single Use
   Use Limitation, Alignment Group: Good
   Material: Papyrus
   Cost 2475

Footpad's Mastic
Quote
This inkwell-sized pot contains a clear, tacky substance of uncertain alchemical providence. It has the remarkable quality of deadening the sound produced by anything it is applied to. It has found great popularity amongst burglars, who smear it on the soles of their boots before housebreaking. This has earned the substance its unusual moniker.
   Small Misc   
   smallmisc 077
   Cast Spell: Light Step (10), 5 charges / use
   Material: Clay
   Charges 15
   Cost 3750

Fragment of the Millford Church Bell
Quote
This fragment of twisted iron is riven with cracks. It still bears scraps of silver gilt.
In the year 700BC the sleepy hamlet of Millford in Mordent was besieged by a horde of undead. The villagers retreated to the safety of the Ezrite chapel on the hill overlooking the river. All day and all night the Toret of the chapel sounded the church bell, keeping the undead at bay. When he fell down exhausted, unable to ring any longer, he prayed to Ezra for aid. Miraculously, the bell continued to peal, clear and loud. The undead were driven off and the mists dispersed.
When the chapel was struck by lightning years later, many fragments of the bell were saved. Each relic, when struck, produces a clear peal that stops the undead in their tracks, just as the bell once did.
   Medium Misc   
   midmisc 062
   Cast Spell: Halt Undead (10), 5 charge / use
   Charges 15
   Weight Increase: 1 lbs
   Material: Iron
   Material: Silver
   Cost 5623

Greater Divine Compact
Quote
This golden scroll shimmers slightly in the light. The beautiful, flowing script describes an understanding between the original author and a powerful celestial being. Perhaps the being will still honour it.
   Medium Misc   
   midmisc 131
   Cast Spell, Greater Planar Binding, Single Use
   Use Limitation, Alignment Group: Good
   Material: Papyrus
   Cost 4500

Greater Stygian Contract
Quote
This rich, creamy paper is disturbingly warm to the touch. It is covered in miniscule, nigh-incomprehensible script.
It seems to outline an agreement of service between a powerful denizen of the lower planes and the bearer. Who originally drafted the contract, and how they came to lose it, is a mystery.
   Medium Misc
   midmisc 033   
   Cast Spell: Greater Planar Binding, Single Use
   Use Limitation, Alignment Group: Evil
   Material: Vellum
   Cost 4500

Luckstone
Quote
This stone sits comfortably in the palm of the hand. It has one smooth, worn side whilst the others are coarse and rough. It has clearly come from a larger object.
Many cultures in the Core have 'lucky' objects, from Mordentish pennies to the dubious charms of the Vistani. Luckstones are more reputable; objects blessed by mystics or fragments of holy idols chipped of from holy idols. Simply squeezing the stone is enough to grant the bearer good fortune.
   Small Misc
   smallmisc 125
   Cast Spell: Aid, 2 charge / use
   Material: Stone, Marble
   Charges 6
   Cost 2700

Oracle Stone
Quote
Many cultures have shamanistic traditions, from the strange Abber nomads of the ever-shifting Nightmare Lands to he mysterious Voodan of the fetid swamps of Souragne. These wise men and women converse with spirits and gaze into the future with the help of objects such as this.
This small fetish is carved with symbols of prophecy and foresight and was once used in such shamanistic rites. Now its power is mostly depleted, but it can still grant the bearer a facsimile of the true seer's power.
   Small Misc
   smlmisc 125
   Cast Spell: Vision of the Omniscient Eye 4 charge / use
   Material: Stone
   Charges 12
   Cost 3375

Stalker's Grease
Quote
This small bowl contains a small amount of dark green greasepaint. A small application on the skin is enough for the substance to work its magic, allowing the wearer to blend in with their surroundings. It was originally concocted by the hunters of Verbrek for use in the wolf-infested forests of that land.
   Small Misc   
   smallmisc 011
   Cast Spell: Camoflage (10),  3 charges / use
   Material: Clay
   Charges 9
   Cost 3000

Stygian Contract
Quote
This rich, creamy paper is disturbingly warm to the touch. It is covered in minuscule, nigh-incomprehensible script.
It seems to outline an agreement of service between a denizen of the lower planes and the bearer. Who originally drafted the contract, and how they came to lose it, is a mystery.
   Medium Misc   
   midmisc 033
   Cast Spell: Planar Binding, Single Use
   Use Limitation, Alignment Group: Evil
   Material: Vellum
   Cost 2475

Voodan Zombie Blood
Quote
This vessel contains a thick, green, foul-smelling liquid. The Voodan are known to concoct this vile brew from plants and roots native to the Souragne bayou. Imbibing the entire dose transforms the drinker into a creature much like the undead that haunt the cypress trees and dark waters there.
   Thin Misc
   thinmisc_198
   Cast Spell: Feign Undeath Single Use
   Material: Clay, Earthenware
   Cost 1687



Nice suggestions. I like the Footpad's Mastic, and the Stalker's Grease a lot, along with the Copying Quill, Beguiling Musk, Fragment of the Millford Church Bell, and the Voodan Zombie Blood  -- the Dancing Blade is too similar to another item we've already got, as is the Boritsi Tasting Spoon. The Stygian Contracts I like, the goodly-aligned ones? Not so much.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Erebus on March 31, 2018, 11:51:03 AM
Nice suggestions. I like the Footpad's Mastic, and the Stalker's Grease a lot, along with the Copying Quill, Beguiling Musk, Fragment of the Millford Church Bell, and the Voodan Zombie Blood  -- the Dancing Blade is too similar to another item we've already got, as is the Boritsi Tasting Spoon. The Stygian Contracts I like, the goodly-aligned ones? Not so much.

To be honest I felt obliged to balance the Evil item with a Good one. They're not nearly as interesting, scrub them.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: QDS on April 09, 2018, 07:30:31 AM
//wrong thread
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Folly on May 07, 2018, 03:12:48 PM
Could a developer confirm whether or not "Bach's Helm" is still in the loot tables?
i saw it in a post from 2012
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Moshimo on May 23, 2018, 08:58:33 AM
So, what ever happened to the items "Barrel of Monkeys" and "Can of Fish"? I'd really like to see these items again.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: PrimetheGrime on May 23, 2018, 08:59:54 AM
So, what ever happened to the items "Barrel of Monkeys" and "Can of Fish"? I'd really like to see these items again.
That sounds interesting. Some kind of cooking ingredient?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Wrath on May 23, 2018, 09:00:39 AM
Gods preserve us in the face of monkeys. May their scourge lie forgotten and please no don't do it.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on October 17, 2018, 04:23:56 PM
So, I've been asking around and I could be wrong but I've noticed a lack of druidic casting items. [...]

Actually Druid is the class that has a high amount of gears granting spell slots. More than most if not all other classes. I respectfully submit that you simply have not inquired to the right persons.

In general though, I really advise against suggesting items granting spell slots. The last thing strong caster classes  need is even more slots. We already refrain from items granting a daily use of a certain effect because that makes them powerful. Imagine when you can choose what that power would be on top of that! Particularly on divine casters that can cast spells several level higher than their effective caster level with said items.

I appreciate you take the time to suggest new items, but I invite you to have them grant different powers.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Daboomer on October 17, 2018, 05:13:52 PM
Gods preserve us in the face of monkeys. May their scourge lie forgotten and please no don't do it.

 :lol: It's like saying "I want the oozepocalypse back"
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Silas Rotleaf on November 11, 2018, 01:22:23 PM
Is my idea for the Thaani battle axe too imbalanced and if so, would it be less broken if the negative will save was greater like a -2 or a -4 instead of a -1?  :-/
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Nuresame on November 27, 2018, 06:36:37 AM
Not sure if this has been suggested yet. But perhaps a violin that's enchanted to accompany the Maestro's Violin Bow? Even if it just glows and provides light? Otherwise all I've seen is the +4 perform one.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on November 27, 2018, 10:20:17 AM
Not sure if this has been suggested yet. But perhaps a violin that's enchanted to accompany the Maestro's Violin Bow? Even if it just glows and provides light? Otherwise all I've seen is the +4 perform one.

I invite you to delve into the toolset and follow the instructions found in the Item Request Thread to devise such violin. Once done, do post it in said thread. We can then discuss the merits of your suggestion here.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: chuuch1 on June 09, 2019, 12:13:55 PM
Im not too great with the toolset, but i had an Idea for an item

Rotten Food

Throw able item (similar to varnishes, oil of slipperiness etc)

Does not have to do any damage, just a visual effect on impact, similar to the disease effect.

Vallaki Garda can hand out baskets of rotten food to be tossed at prisoners doing the walk of shame or being executed etc
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Helaman on July 18, 2019, 11:39:59 PM
I like this
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Wholesome Memester on July 19, 2019, 08:27:59 AM
[throws a rotten apple at you]
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Estwilde on July 19, 2019, 03:48:56 PM
A hoopak sling staff would be fantastic  :) Even if it was just a graphical override option for regular slings
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Hatsune on July 20, 2019, 07:59:28 AM
A hoopak sling staff would be fantastic  :) Even if it was just a graphical override option for regular slings

Is that so we can identify and murder the Kender faster then we already do? If so, I fully support this!
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Iridni Ren on October 27, 2019, 06:59:15 PM
Spoiler: show
A bunch of stuff for perusal!

CLOAKS

Cloak Of Charisma
Appearance – Sharess (Estelindis)
Properties – Cast Spell: Eagles Splendour (3) 3 charges/use
Charges – 36
Materials – Silk, Cloth
Cost – 1801

(https://i.imgur.com/z3gdEZg.jpg)   (https://i.imgur.com/5iPglSP.jpg)


Description:  These cloaks, of a warm, deep red and of a splendid shimmering weave, seldom seem to stain or tear.  A device of Faerun, they are known there as a symbol of the Goddess Sharess, and are worn by her celebrants.  Here, in Ravenloft, they are sometimes found, but the magic of them fades, or is corrupted.  Eventually, the fabric rots, and falls apart, the lustre and shine turning dull and dead. But before that happens, they can be worn to improve ones appearance to the observer, heightening their physical features.  Eventually however the dread nature of the Demiplane of Dread turns the beauty within them to dust.


Cloak of Protection
Appearance – Great Cloak
Properties – Universal Saves +1
Materials – Wool
Cost – 1441

(https://i.imgur.com/HvPliSS.jpg)  (https://i.imgur.com/Vjig6LZ.jpg)

Description:  These sturdy, well woven cloaks are of a strange wool, soft and soothing to the touch.  A creation from beyond the mists, they bear an ancient magic and have what appears to be vaguely elven lettering stitched into the edge.  They are sometimes found, in good condition despite their circumstances, and impart a strange sort of luck to their wearer – giving them a faint edge to avoid, resist or endure circumstances that otherwise could well be fatal.  Whatever luck is within them passes to those that wear them.  But all luck must run out eventually.



Greater Cloak of Charisma
Appearance – Sune  (Estelindis)
Properties – Decreased Saving Throw, Will, -2.  Skill Bonus Influence +3.  Use limitation – Good.  Cast Spell: Aura of Glory (7) 5 charges/use.  Cast Eagles Splendour (10) 5 charges/use.
Charges - 50
Materials – Silk, Cloth.
Cost – 5885

(https://i.imgur.com/UfCDzDJ.jpg)  (https://i.imgur.com/heZIhFu.jpg)

Description: These magnificent cloaks bear the symbol of the outlander deity Sune, a goddess of love and beauty.  Wearing these fine cloaks, a figure can take on an almost unearthly beauty and force of personality, drawing all eyes to them as they stride with confidence, a bright light in the midst of the darkness of the Core.  However, this very confidence can descend all too easily into reckless hubris, and though the magic of these cloaks is strong, it does not last forever.  Eventually the colours fade, the material frays, the stains of blood can no longer be washed out, and what was once beautiful turns distraught.  At that point, the eyes turn away, the confidence withers, a perhaps fleeting, torturous glimpse of what life could be, denied and to slip endlessly through grasping fingers.



Greater Cloak of Protection
Appearance – Paisley (Lisa)
Properties – Damage Reduction: Slashing -/3.  Universal saves +1.
Materials – Wool, Mithral.
Cost – 4453

(https://i.imgur.com/I2DkyKA.jpg)   (https://i.imgur.com/BYYsha9.jpg)

Description: These magnificent cloaks, look of a similar but improved style to other, lesser cloaks.  Wrought of warm, soft wool, by some secret method the thinnest possible strands of silver mithral are mixed in with the threads.  So very faint as to be naught but a mere shimmer to be seen, but in such quantity as to provide a simply extraordinary level of protection.  Whatever magic and technique is used is one beyond replication or even proper identification, but in certain moonlight when the cloak shifts, the reflection of the mithral sometimes forms elven style lettering, or at least the vague impression of it.  Rarely seen, but highly sought after, they are a cloak to be treasured.



Lords Cloak
Appearance – Lords Alliance (Estelindis)
Properties – Saving throw bonus +1 Will, Skill Bonus: Parry +3, Influence +3.
Materials – Wool, Cotton, Gold.
Cost- 4929

(https://i.imgur.com/YjCEcPa.jpg)  (https://i.imgur.com/ON17hFo.jpg)

Description:  This bold, ostentatious cloak is of a rich tone and colour, with gold thread woven into the material.  It is almost obscene in its display of wealth, in such a way as to make one frown at the garishness of it, but it nevertheless has a way of making one seem taller, their shoulders straighter.  A power of arrogance and perhaps hubris makes itself felt in the wearer, hardening the mind and the heart as well as steadying the hand.  But power is its own trap in the Mists, and the power that this mighty cloak can grant can also be the undoing of the one who wear it, pulled along by their own confidence into a fate worse than death; or to rise above, into power otherwise never known.



Soldiers Cloak
Appearance – Plain.
Properties – Skill Bonus: Discipline +2, Saving throw bonus +1 Fortitude.
Materials – Cloth, wool
Cost – 1489

(https://i.imgur.com/x48F4qx.jpg)

Description:  This cloak is a simple, well woven and sturdy cloak, designed to be worn on long marches.  Set so that it does not impede movement nor combat, it is a handy, well made object that was the standard for an armed force that made use of them regularly.  Who that force was?  None could now say.  There is no insignia, no mark upon them to denote who bore them.  No memory of who wore them and into what war.  They bear signs of stitching and repair, and some appear old indeed.  What war have they seen, what blood has stained them?  None could say.  They could be the mark of a liberator, or a tyrant.  There is no way to know.



Cloak of Eyes
Appearance – Cloak of Eyes
Properties – Cast Spell: Clairaudience/Clairvoyance (5) 5 charges Per use.  Skill Bonus: Search +3.  Light: Low (5m), Blue.  Decreased Skill:  Influence -5.
Charges: 50
Materials – Wool, Hide.
Cost – 2812

(https://i.imgur.com/7WnWbfk.jpg)  (https://i.imgur.com/y0hrs95.jpg)

Description: A somewhat extraordinary design of cloak, these are wool over a hide backing, and woven in such a way as to give the appearance of eyes on the cloak itself.  The peculiar movement and weave of the cloak makes the eyes shift, and blink and open, as it moves about, a particularly unsettling look that can create anxiety in the observer, but it nevertheless seems to make those that use it more alert, more observant.  And the eyes are not truly moving, of course.  Almost certainly not.  Just a trick of the light.
Has to be.


AMULETS

Broken Heart of Innocence
Properties – Decreased AC -1, Decreased Universal Saves -1, Bonus Spell Slot – lvl 1 Paladin
Materials – Gold, Ruby
Cost – 1000 (added cost, original 0).

(https://i.imgur.com/6Y3deim.jpg)

Description:  This amulet of gold is stained by a patina, though gold cannot normally rust.  The ruby at its heart is shattered, as though from within.  To hold it in ones hand is to feel a pang, a sorrow of something lost.
It is difficult to tell what this once was from looking at it.  But to gaze into the shards of ruby still inset into the gold, one sees the reflection of a violent death, a memory of a passing of a brave soul in darkness, forgotten and alone.  There are many such deaths in the Domain of Dread.  You will never know which one this was.


Heart of Innocence
Properties – Decreased AC -2, Decreased Universal Saves -2, Bonus Spell Slot – lvl 2 Paladin
Materials- Gold, Ruby
Cost – 2000 (added cost, original 0)

(https://i.imgur.com/ycTNKfm.jpg)

Description: The ruby that shines in this setting of gold has no tarnish to it, but nevertheless there is a fading light at its heart.  To hold it in prayer is to hear a fading voice that speaks with your own, a voice that fights against the darkness, that adds its fading strength to those that have the power to call upon it.  This strength however is strength of spirit, for a strange exhaustion can also come to those that wear it of the body, as though the struggle of that voice to be heard wears the wearer down.  Should the wearer fall, however, the stone at its heart shall darken further, or even shatter, the voice that it once had, a mere echo to the words of the one who holds it shall vanish, and the sorrow of the one who bore it in death shall replace it.  Innocence cannot survive in the Domain of Dread.  But it may endure, for a little while.


Purest Heart of Innocence
Properties – Decreased AC -3, Decreased Universal Saves -3, Bonus Spell Slot – lvl 1, lvl 3 Paladin.  Light (Low, 10m) Red.
Materials – Gold, Ruby
Cost – 5000 (added cost, original 0)

(https://i.imgur.com/PHNnm5X.jpg)

Description: In whatever hands hold it, this amulet brings an odd sensation.  The muscles lock, a weight comes down upon the shoulders.  A feeling indescribable overwhelms the senses, that could be sorrow, or regret, or fear, nearly crippling the one who carries it. 
But in the hands of some, a special, rare few, that feeling turns to exaltation.  A power, a force unlike any other, as the flawless, brilliant ruby at the heart blazes between fingers clasped in heartfelt prayer.  Strength of heart and spirit magnified, a beauty beheld in the heart alone.
It cannot last.  Eventually even that light will fade, will be burned away.  It cannot last.  But it may, for just a little, last just long enough.


BELTS

Duelist Belt
Properties – Skill Bonus: Discipline +3, Parry +2
Materials – Leather, Iron
Cost – 1563

(https://i.imgur.com/dKt1i8G.jpg)

Description:  Awarded in Dementlieu to exceptional warriors of excellence in formal duelling tournaments, these sturdy belts are worn as a replacement sword belt.  They are generally awarded to the final groupings of the grand tourneys, as a reward for reaching the position of achievement – but it must be said that rather too many are made, as sometimes deaths do (albeit rarely) occur, or injuries instead that cause individuals to excuse themselves.  As such, these belts can make their way into the open market instead, where people who may – or may not – have the skill to warrant their wearing display them instead; but its so well known that they may in fact be simply a castoff, that they have near no prestige left to them at all.


Master Duellist Belt
Properties – Skill Bonus:  Discipline +4, Parry +5
Materials – Gold, Steel, Leather
Cost – 5063

(https://i.imgur.com/N6nEsUR.jpg)

Description:  Only the champion of duellist tournaments are awarded these belts; marked with an unusually garish mark of gold, rare in Dementlieu, these championship belts carry with them a skilfully woven enchantment to make a master of the art of the rapier even more dangerous still.  Unlike the lesser, participatory belts handed out to those who make the final groupings of tournaments, only a master may bear such a belt – but there is nothing to stop them being taken from their body.  Many a master of the blade has met their end by overextending themselves in a place they should not have gone.  Others still have met death by poison, or by bullet, or a knife that came for them in the dark.  One thing is for sure, whoever might bear it, be they the original or the finder, they are certainly lucky.


Mark of the Hawk
Properties – Cast Spell: Battletide (9) Single Use, Blood Frenzy (3) 5 charges use, Clarity (3) 5 charges use.
Charges – 50.
Materials – Hide, Steel
Cost – 3095

(https://i.imgur.com/UDmdrqX.jpg)

Description:  After defeat in battle due to the manipulations of magics, the mists and other forces beyond his control, Vlad Drakov was livid with a fury beyond even his normal evil, hateful mood.  But ever the tactician, he created the Talons, a force designed to resist any affect on their mind, to become perfect but unfeeling killing machines.
These belts were one of the products of his experimentation to create the ultimate soldier, unquestioning and absolutely obedient.  Discarded at some point as a device of mass production, the means of creating them nevertheless made its way out of the Tower where it was first created.  Designed to empower soldiers but also, if need be, to clear their mind of harmful effects, it remains a potent weapon – but in the end, Drakov preferred enchantments that would not fade, and this belt with its temporary measures did not give him the surety he desired.  Nevertheless, even if they do not meet his standard, they are nevertheless potent.


Tunnel Ranger Belt
Properties – Bonus Feat:  Crossbow Sniper, Darkvision.
Materials – Brass, Leather.
Cost – 4001

(https://i.imgur.com/pFlrag7.jpg)

Description:  In the dark of Dvergheim, and other underground locales, the tunnels are silent, empty places – save for the click and clatter of creatures of monstrous means.  Hunters and predators, they are met in the darkness by hunters of another kind – dwarven snipers, bearing specially tuned crossbows to fire from out of the shadows over exceptional ranges in the dark.  With a reinforcing brace, special tuning instruments and more than a touch of magic imbued into the brass wrought sigils set in the black leather of a hook horror hide, these belts can help turn even an amateur hunter into a deadly stalker in the darkness beneath the earth, or the night sky above, where there may be no warning save for the whistle and thud of a bolt fired to lethal effect.


Belt of the Balance
Properties – Decreased skill modifier: -3 Hide, -3 Move Silently. Skill Bonus: +3 Concentration, +3 Heal, +3 Spellcraft.
Materials – Hide, Silk, Silver.
Cost – 4252

(https://i.imgur.com/EENtGPc.jpg)

Description: This bright white belt, set with symbols of wrought silver, has small clapping bells set behind raised metal studs set along it.  The symbols set upon it are of Halan origin, their meaning only known to a select few.
Studying the symbols brings a sense of strange, innate understanding, and peace.  A deftness of touch and imparted serenity which is rare to find in the Domain of Dread.  It makes these belts highly sought after amongst a select few, but even knowing what they do, and the faith that represent, the means of their making, and how and why they impart what they do, is simply not known.


TOWER SHIELDS

Defender of Purity
Properties - +3 AC vs Evil.  Vulnerability Negative energy 10%, Light Low 10m White
Materials – Iron.
Cost – 2169

(https://i.imgur.com/KiBIWup.jpg)

Description:  This shield is old, and heavy. Built of battered iron, it bears rust around its edges that never seems to be able to be buffed away.  Its metal is stained in places by black marks that speak of a long campaign of use against forces of a dire sort.
And yet, when raised in defence against the foulest, most terrible creatures in the Core, this shield glows with a fitful, but defiant white light.  Cast into the eyes of the wicked, it becomes both a beacon and a protective boon.  Heavy and yet steadfast, bearing the weight of all its past battles – and yet still struggling on.  This shield is a bulwark against darkness, that empowers those who bear it, to face any shadow, and bring the light to it.


Shield of the Raptor
Properties - +1 AC.  Decreased Saving throws: -1 Fortitude, -1 Reflex.  Increased Saving throws, +1 Will.
Materials – Iron.
Cost – 3425

(https://i.imgur.com/g3fkZ1Z.jpg)

Description: This massive iron shield bears on it a harsh motif, the mark of the Zweifalk.  These shields, carried into battle by the shock troops of Vlad Drakov, are ugly things.  Instilled with the force of will of their terrible Kingfuhrer, the heavily armoured Talons bear this along with the rest of their dread wargear.  That said, even those terrible warriors can die.  And these shields make their way into the world.  They embody the stiff necked, defiant in the face of death nature of those who bear them, their mind too taken by discipline to recognise death when they face it.  The perfect soldier resulting, but only if their purpose is to die.


SMALL SHIELDS

Razors Edge
Properties - +1 AC.  Decreased Saving Throws: Spells -1.  Skill Bonus: Parry +3.
Materials – Bronze, Steel.
Cost – 3748

(https://i.imgur.com/y6BgZWB.jpg)

Description: This light, swift shield is wrought of woven steel over a bronze base, designed to sit lightly in the hand and twist and turn easily.  Worn by dancing blade duelists bearing light blades and in light armour, it has a magnificent ability to both draw the eye and deflect blades lightly and easily.  The metal in its construction however can also attract magic, a strange sort of magnetism to certain spells that makes their effects slightly more potent.  Neverthless, in a fight between more mundane opponents, this shield can grant a truly astonishing edge – and from that comes its name, for there are few that are sharper than this.


LARGE SHIELDS

Sterkt Hjerte
Properties - +2 AC vs evil.  Increased saving throws vs spells +1.
Materials – Bronze, Lead
Cost – 2940

(https://i.imgur.com/XIIkQL0.jpg)

Description:  ‘Strong Heart’ in dwarvish, this heavy shield is made of bronze, with a thin core of lead at its centre.  It makes the shield heavier, it is true, but this Dvergheim made shield has runes around its rim that are in an old, old language, from a time before that not even the dwarves there remember.  There are few of these stout shields, and despite attempts whatever gives them their powerful properties has not been replicated.  Rare, and precious, they are carried with great respect and pride.


Shard of Niflheim
Properties - +2 AC vs slashing.  Cold resistance 5/-
Materials – Bone, Chitin, Steel
Cost – 5340

(https://i.imgur.com/IJbwy6n.jpg)

Description:  This shield is unsual, in that its origins, design, and maker is a complete mystery.  What is known is that the bone and chitin that makes up the chitin, bound together with steel, is unusually cold to the touch.  Carrying it, one gets the impression of a place of endless chill, boundless plains made of bone and shell, covered over with frost. A cold place, a dead place, a place without hope.  How it came to the Core is anyones guess.  But in such features, it is well suited.


I definitely think the cloak slot could use some more options, and a couple of really valuable ones are on that list.

The paladin spell-slot amulets I'm less enamored of because the class is already sufficiently strong, and maluses don't much matter when the spell can be cast and then the item replaced.


Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Nemesis 24 on October 27, 2019, 08:16:55 PM
I included the amulets because at present, the comparison class of ranger gets spell slots of one and two in hands, a lvl 3 in an amulet, and either a 2 or a 4 in armour.  Three of those can be worn simultaneously.  In the case of the amulets, only one can be worn.   Ranger is a staggeringly powerful class after its changes, so I dont think the argument that paladin is 'too powerful' holds up anymore when it is up against such a thing.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Iridni Ren on October 27, 2019, 09:11:08 PM
I included the amulets because at present, the comparison class of ranger gets spell slots of one and two in hands, a lvl 3 in an amulet, and either a 2 or a 4 in armour.  Three of those can be worn simultaneously.  In the case of the amulets, only one can be worn.   Ranger is a staggeringly powerful class after its changes, so I dont think the argument that paladin is 'too powerful' holds up anymore when it is up against such a thing.

"Sufficiently strong" and "too powerful" aren't synonymous :)

Regardless, if rangers have great gear, that's not in and of itself an argument for making paladin gear nicer. Such reasoning leads to power creep.

Generally it's better for game balance to add items that are usable by many classes and builds. Like some of those cloaks.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: immasturgeon on October 27, 2019, 09:14:33 PM
I play a paladin who would kill for one of those amulets... But I agree that level 3 paladin spells shouldn't happen via items.

Paladin spells, especially at that level are too good. I think it is appropriate that a paladin should have to wait until 12 for righteous fury or gmw, and later for both of them. (Regardless of what rangers get)

The cloaks on the other hand are a great addition.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Nemesis 24 on October 27, 2019, 09:26:00 PM
Personally I think Ranger -before- the extra slot items they have is more powerful, especially in a PvP sense.  They can also multiclass, which loses slots, but thanks to the items they have they can cover the gap easily.  The lvl 3 and lvl 1 slot amulet was the result of some discussions with others; as none of the items can safely be worn all the time, I felt that offset their ability, as they each require preparation.

As for GMW, thats easily available from others.  Righteous fury, less so; but the other stacking stat spell, aura of glory, is a lvl 2 spell for paladins.  This would at least require finding a hopefully *very* rare amulet.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Chabxxu on October 27, 2019, 10:03:28 PM
Paladins are already an extremely strong class. I don't think added an item to even enchance their PvE power is needed at the moment. The first two spell levels aren't too game changing, but another spell slot of level 3 would be too much.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Ezras Outcast on October 27, 2019, 11:11:10 PM
I think the extra spell slot item is a fine idea, there's a desperate scrape for spells slots with paladin and this would allow further variation in a class already spread thin.

The reference to Ranger is a fair comparison for availability in items and choice if not power. Great job.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Iridni Ren on October 27, 2019, 11:53:22 PM
The reference to Ranger is a fair comparison for availability in items and choice if not power. Great job.

Why? The classes aren't very similar at all.

What is of most relevance is whether the class-exclusive items strengthen a class and whether that class needs strengthening. The answers are yes and no, respectively.

Of secondary consideration is do the items add some nice flavor and lore and create a variety of builds?

I doubt very much these spell slot amulets are going to add to a variety of builds because there is no downside to having one: put a buff spell in the slot, cast it, and switch to the alternate amulet to avoid the malus. Do any current paladins *not* want the Gauntlets of the Fallen Paladin?

The reason "there's a desperate scrape for spell slots with a paladin" is a fully buffed paladin is so strong. Making a paladin have to choose between spells such as GMW and Righteous Fury is how you create variety--not allowing her to pick both.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Ezras Outcast on October 28, 2019, 01:16:38 AM
The reason "there's a desperate scrape for spell slots with a paladin" is a fully buffed paladin is so strong.

And a fully buffed Ranger is not? With Banebow as well as their other spells and abilities a ranger outstrips a paladin in terms of functional power. With access to stealth, traps, ranged combat, and to a lesser extent animal companions.

With some small amount of thought its apparent how the classes are similar as well, martial classes with small divine casting capabilities and an identical spell slot progression.

As a rare item, I do not see the extra single spell slot necklace being any grander of a difference in power beyond the addition spell slot items available to all other classes that make use of spell slots, namely clerics and druids, classes that frankly eclipse paladins in terms of raw combat strength which is what I assume the misguided assumption of paladin strength comes from.

Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: aprogressivist on October 28, 2019, 01:40:11 AM
I think it is appropriate that a paladin should have to wait until 12 for righteous fury or gmw

Bear in mind that GMW won't really be very strong until level 12 anyway. So really the big spell is Righteous Fury.

But I think it's not such a big deal as people are making out. Having access to Righteous Fury that much earlier is very nice, and, sure, Paladins are already a strong PvE class, but this is basically leaning into asymmetric balance, which is IMO one of the less disruptive approaches to these matters. The counterpoint is that when they have that amulet on -- just prior to resting to get that extra spell slot, or perhaps all the time if the player doesn't bother item-swapping -- they have -3 AC and -3 saves, making them much easier to kill or assassinate. For a class that's already in a very strange spot in PvP (since they're often probably going to be more likely to have to defend from PvP than initiate it unless they really do their IC groundwork), this presents an interesting dilemma. I think it's a neat idea.

If anything I think the cloak giving Aura of Glory access to Clerics is potentially a bigger deal, but maybe that's just me...
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Nemesis 24 on October 28, 2019, 02:01:11 AM
I admit, I thought Aura of Glory for clerics would get much more furore.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: PrimetheGrime on October 28, 2019, 02:58:38 AM
I think it is appropriate that a paladin should have to wait until 12 for righteous fury or gmw

Bear in mind that GMW won't really be very strong until level 12 anyway. So really the big spell is Righteous Fury.

But I think it's not such a big deal as people are making out. Having access to Righteous Fury that much earlier is very nice, and, sure, Paladins are already a strong PvE class, but this is basically leaning into asymmetric balance, which is IMO one of the less disruptive approaches to these matters. The counterpoint is that when they have that amulet on -- just prior to resting to get that extra spell slot, or perhaps all the time if the player doesn't bother item-swapping -- they have -3 AC and -3 saves, making them much easier to kill or assassinate. For a class that's already in a very strange spot in PvP (since they're often probably going to be more likely to have to defend from PvP than initiate it unless they really do their IC groundwork), this presents an interesting dilemma. I think it's a neat idea.

If anything I think the cloak giving Aura of Glory access to Clerics is potentially a bigger deal, but maybe that's just me...

No, I agree with that 100%.

The reference to Ranger is a fair comparison for availability in items and choice if not power. Great job.

Why? The classes aren't very similar at all.

What is of most relevance is whether the class-exclusive items strengthen a class and whether that class needs strengthening. The answers are yes and no, respectively.

Of secondary consideration is do the items add some nice flavor and lore and create a variety of builds?

I doubt very much these spell slot amulets are going to add to a variety of builds because there is no downside to having one: put a buff spell in the slot, cast it, and switch to the alternate amulet to avoid the malus. Do any current paladins *not* want the Gauntlets of the Fallen Paladin?

The reason "there's a desperate scrape for spell slots with a paladin" is a fully buffed paladin is so strong. Making a paladin have to choose between spells such as GMW and Righteous Fury is how you create variety--not allowing her to pick both.


The reason they are referenced together is because of the big hit spells that Rangers & Paladins receive at level 4, and that there is already at least one item in game that gives you that crucial level 4 spell slot for ranger allowing you access to Banebow, which can be utilised by multiclasses should they have the reqs down. You cant multiclass a Paladin with anything but PrCs in comparison as per the server rules.  I don't agree that all items that are considered should be considered for all, all the time. I would disagree especially with the idea that these amulets are going to make the class stronger in anything but pve as frankly, as Aprog already mentioned, if a paladin is wearing a level 3 spell slot ammy that takes -3 AC, he's a way easier target for PvP. PvE isn't much of an issue in this regard frankly.

Tldr: I'm more afraid of Banebow than Righteous Fury

As for the cloaks, I think there is plenty of variety based on the type of divine class, especially for simply roleplay perspective. I thought the belts were interesting, but I don't feel competent enough to weigh in on those.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: zDark Shadowz on October 28, 2019, 09:40:22 AM
Cloak of Protection usually refers to the +1 AC cloak, a +1 universal cloak would be nice to see regardless, Cloak of Resistance was the standard nwn name for it. Cloak of Fortification has +1 AC as well as +1 universal saves, it'd increase the value to make it rarer. We do need more cloaks imo that give (primary) saving throws, i've only heard of two that do something significant, one of which my main has glued to his back now which does +3 to a primary saving throw without any drawbacks.

Spellslot stuff doesnt really need to have combat penalties when its going to be switched out anyway once the spell is cast. I suppose it adds a little time preparation penalty switching items and adding spells.

Maybe just skill or attribute penalties instead, so if you're in an event where conserving spells is more of a thing then you have to weigh if keeping the spell is worth it at the risk of screwing over potential skill check rolls/OCR etc.

Aura of Glory cloak.. hrm. Could be nice for more charisma heavy clerics in a pinch and for sorcerers to pump out an extra couple DC.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Iridni Ren on October 28, 2019, 10:06:44 AM
Spellslot stuff doesnt really need to have combat penalties when its going to be switched out anyway once the spell is cast. I suppose it adds a little time preparation penalty switching items and adding spells.

Maybe just skill or attribute penalties instead, so if you're in an event where conserving spells is more of a thing then you have to weigh if keeping the spell is worth it at the risk of screwing over potential skill check rolls/OCR etc.

This is a small consideration for high-level caster with lots of spells to keep up with: do I really want to fool with that amulet that gives me one more second and one more third when I already have six of each? Or do I want to keep my +2 to universal saves on at all times and not worry about it?

But if the PC is a paladin and it doubles the number of precious third-level spells she has, the bother of having to reinsert one spell would not even enter into the equation. If I had enchanted gauntlets, I'd still put on the Gauntlets of the Fallen Paladin before resting and swap after buffing.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: aprogressivist on October 28, 2019, 01:16:05 PM
The point of Spellslot stuff that gives combat penalties isn't so much about expecting people to endure them -- of course people are going to play the item shuffle mini-game -- but that the item shuffle mini-game comes with consequences of its own.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Iridni Ren on October 28, 2019, 01:27:28 PM
The point of Spellslot stuff that gives combat penalties isn't so much about expecting people to endure them -- of course people are going to play the item shuffle mini-game -- but that the item shuffle mini-game comes with consequences of its own.

I disagree, at least in this instance. The point here was to give the items such deceptively severe maluses as to bring their item cost down. Note that each amulet has an original cost stated of 0.

No front-liner (and how many paladins aren't front liners?) is going to keep a -3 AC / -3 universal saves item equipped.

The only "consequence" is the minor irritation of quick-slotting the item and re-adding the spell before each rest.

It's too much of a no-brainer to be considered even a "mini-game."
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on October 28, 2019, 04:51:56 PM
Speaking for myself only. I do not see a necessity to balance paladin's spell slots, nor even paladins vs other classes. But I would consider spell slot items to bolster the weaker prestige classes.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Dante101 on October 28, 2019, 05:32:28 PM
Speaking for myself only. I do not see a necessity to balance paladin's spell slots, nor even paladins vs other classes. But I would consider spell slot items to bolster the weaker prestige classes.

This seems a bit... Alarming coming from a dev. No need to balance spell slot items for full BAB, high HP classes where those spell slots give them drastic power boosts over other classes?

Or maybe I just flat out misunderstand the statement. Is it that you don't see a need to add spell slot items?
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: aprogressivist on October 28, 2019, 06:45:09 PM
It's too much of a no-brainer to be considered even a "mini-game."

It creates a PvP vulnerability that can be exploited by a clever assassin while offering the Paladin a PvE power boost that they don't really need, but is tempting enough to actually take.

It's an incredibly appropriate item for Ravenloft.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: PrimetheGrime on October 28, 2019, 09:04:17 PM
It's too much of a no-brainer to be considered even a "mini-game."

It creates a PvP vulnerability that can be exploited by a clever assassin while offering the Paladin a PvE power boost that they don't really need, but is tempting enough to actually take.

It's an incredibly appropriate item for Ravenloft.

Exactly! We should all be in agreement right now that PvE wise Paladins are doing just fine, but that spellslot access for the risk of -3 AC has positives and negatives to it that I personally would both like to see and would use myself. Anything that also makes a big boy frontliner be vulnerable for a short time is A ok in my book.
Speaking for myself only. I do not see a necessity to balance paladin's spell slots, nor even paladins vs other classes. But I would consider spell slot items to bolster the weaker prestige classes.

I wouldn't mind seeing some PrC items, especially for Monster Hunters 😛
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: MAB77 on October 28, 2019, 10:14:52 PM
This seems a bit... Alarming coming from a dev. No need to balance spell slot items for full BAB, high HP classes where those spell slots give them drastic power boosts over other classes?

Or maybe I just flat out misunderstand the statement. Is it that you don't see a need to add spell slot items?

You indeed read too much into what I wrote. I am not against balancing classes, but I do believe the paladin is in a fine position as is. It is actually a good thing that not all races and classes be on equal footing in D&D. It provides a range of different challenges. Take Calibans or Half-Orcs, no one will deny they are the races with the least advantages and worse, they are even forced away from civilized areas, chased and attack by NPCs. Yet we see them often. Why? Because they are lovingly fun to play! Who cares that it doesn't have half the abilities of an elf?

It is no different for classes. It is not that important that a given class be more or less powerful than another. What matters to me is: A) That the class be interesting to play, with unique and helpful abilities of its own. B) That it can develop into a character that can be reasonably efficient and able to face the challenges of the module as part of a well rounded party.

Paladins more than fulfill those two criteria. Remember that a balance swing both ways too, adding that slot item might lessen the gap slightly between the paladin and a strong spellcasting class, but you would also accentuate it between the paladin and say a grimetrekker. That is why I'd rather remove spell slot items from the strongest classes & add some to the weaker ones (of which the paladin is certainly not part of).
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Relapse on October 29, 2019, 03:38:00 AM
The point of Spellslot stuff that gives combat penalties isn't so much about expecting people to endure them -- of course people are going to play the item shuffle mini-game -- but that the item shuffle mini-game comes with consequences of its own.

I disagree, at least in this instance. The point here was to give the items such deceptively severe maluses as to bring their item cost down. Note that each amulet has an original cost stated of 0.

No front-liner (and how many paladins aren't front liners?) is going to keep a -3 AC / -3 universal saves item equipped.

The only "consequence" is the minor irritation of quick-slotting the item and re-adding the spell before each rest.

It's too much of a no-brainer to be considered even a "mini-game."

I'd personally like to see the end of this sort of culture in the game and the enabling of it through circumstantial items, i might be alone in this but I hate watching people pack on appraise gear before approaching a seller, spell slot items before rest etc. or items with superficial skill negatives to bring the item value down.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Dante101 on October 29, 2019, 07:22:11 AM
Spoiler: show
This seems a bit... Alarming coming from a dev. No need to balance spell slot items for full BAB, high HP classes where those spell slots give them drastic power boosts over other classes?

Or maybe I just flat out misunderstand the statement. Is it that you don't see a need to add spell slot items?

You indeed read too much into what I wrote. I am not against balancing classes, but I do believe the paladin is in a fine position as is. It is actually a good thing that not all races and classes be on equal footing in D&D. It provides a range of different challenges. Take Calibans or Half-Orcs, no one will deny they are the races with the least advantages and worse, they are even forced away from civilized areas, chased and attack by NPCs. Yet we see them often. Why? Because they are lovingly fun to play! Who cares that it doesn't have half the abilities of an elf?

It is no different for classes. It is not that important that a given class be more or less powerful than another. What matters to me is: A) That the class be interesting to play, with unique and helpful abilities of its own. B) That it can develop into a character that can be reasonably efficient and able to face the challenges of the module as part of a well rounded party.

Paladins more than fulfill those two criteria. Remember that a balance swing both ways too, adding that slot item might lessen the gap slightly between the paladin and a strong spellcasting class, but you would also accentuate it between the paladin and say a grimetrekker. That is why I'd rather remove spell slot items from the strongest classes & add some to the weaker ones (of which the paladin is certainly not part of).


This stance makes more sense to me, thanks for the clarification. I agree - paladins are in a good spot mechanically, overall. When I read "I do not see a necessity to balance paladin's spell slots" I assumed, in context of this item thread: "no need to put negative stats on the proposed items." Which was concerning, considering the power gap that already exists. Apologies for misunderstanding.

I do think more spell slot items would be a quality of life improvement, if the item is balanced properly with meaningful tradeoff stats as suggested in this thread. I'd even suggest taking a more drastic approach and consider adding damage vulnerability to the proposed items as well.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Iridni Ren on October 29, 2019, 08:42:04 AM
To be frank, those Charisma cloaks are paladin-spell-slot items as well, providing the staples of Aura of Glory and Eagle's Splendor, which clearly benefit paladins the most. In theory a paladin with the better cloak and best amulet is going to have extra 1st, 2nd (x2), and 3rd level spells.

But at least the cloaks are not class restricted and have limited charges.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Relapse on October 29, 2019, 10:01:20 AM
I do think more spell slot items would be a quality of life improvement, if the item is balanced properly with meaningful tradeoff stats as suggested in this thread. I'd even suggest taking a more drastic approach and consider adding damage vulnerability to the proposed items as well.

I think the point is that the items aren't actually worn, they're switched in prior to rest, spells cast, then switched out so the negative stats have no real impact. 

The only time negative stats have an impact is if they apply in the same context as the positive. E.g. A sword with a both a combat positive and negative (+1 cold damage, +10% cold vulnerability).
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: aprogressivist on October 29, 2019, 10:42:04 AM
To be frank, those Charisma cloaks are paladin-spell-slot items as well, providing the staples of Aura of Glory and Eagle's Splendor, which clearly benefit paladins the most. In theory a paladin with the better cloak and best amulet is going to have extra 1st, 2nd (x2), and 3rd level spells.

No, that's completely upside down thinking.

Eagle's Splendor potions are common enough anyway. So the big deal with the cloaks is the Aura of Glory spell.  That's a Paladin-only spell.

And opening up a Paladin-only spell to every other class is not going to benefit Paladins especially; they can cast Aura of Glory from their own spell slots.  It's really to the advantage of Charisma Cleric builds, Sorcerers, Blackguards, and Bards (especially Bard/Blackguard builds that use Divine Might/Shield).
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Dante101 on October 29, 2019, 01:09:29 PM
I do think more spell slot items would be a quality of life improvement, if the item is balanced properly with meaningful tradeoff stats as suggested in this thread. I'd even suggest taking a more drastic approach and consider adding damage vulnerability to the proposed items as well.

I think the point is that the items aren't actually worn, they're switched in prior to rest, spells cast, then switched out so the negative stats have no real impact. 

The only time negative stats have an impact is if they apply in the same context as the positive. E.g. A sword with a both a combat positive and negative (+1 cold damage, +10% cold vulnerability).

I think an argument made earlier was that the negatives would impact people from a PvP perspective (being attacked while preparing to rest). Though I do agree; it'd be best if the downsides were sustained, but I'm not sure if there's really a way to do so with spellslot items in general.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Iridni Ren on October 29, 2019, 01:47:16 PM
I do think more spell slot items would be a quality of life improvement, if the item is balanced properly with meaningful tradeoff stats as suggested in this thread. I'd even suggest taking a more drastic approach and consider adding damage vulnerability to the proposed items as well.

I think the point is that the items aren't actually worn, they're switched in prior to rest, spells cast, then switched out so the negative stats have no real impact. 

The only time negative stats have an impact is if they apply in the same context as the positive. E.g. A sword with a both a combat positive and negative (+1 cold damage, +10% cold vulnerability).

I think an argument made earlier was that the negatives would impact people from a PvP perspective (being attacked while preparing to rest). Though I do agree; it'd be best if the downsides were sustained, but I'm not sure if there's really a way to do so with spellslot items in general.

The argument doesn't hold water anyway. An enemy *knows* you put on the -3 AC amulet to rest? And if it's quick-slotted, how long does that vulnerability last?

Yet the item value is calculated as though this malus is something you actually have to live with to enjoy the item's benefits, rather than something that is unlikely ever to have an impact...other than being annoying.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Chabxxu on October 29, 2019, 02:01:13 PM
There is no way to make a spell slot item balanced unless the character is forced to keep the item on the cast their spells during combat. A spellslot item for rangers and paladins are extremely strong because they use these slots to buff up, then they can take off the amulet and dont care about the malus. If you give spellslots item to classes that use those spells to fight, its an entirely different story. As much as people complained about the wizard rings(yes they are strong, im not trying to say they aren’t good), they still had a -10 concentration on each ring. Meaning you’d had a -20 concentration for your character if you wanted to use those spells in combat. Having -20 concentration means if someone touches you while you cast, you are going to fail your spell, 100% of the time. My character who had those rings was walking around at -14 concentration at some point, and its a very big disadvantage.

Tldr: dont make spellslot items for class who will use them for buffing, as negative on them are useless. Negatives will work on classes who will keep them on during the fights, where negatives will impact them.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: aprogressivist on October 29, 2019, 02:09:29 PM
The argument doesn't hold water anyway. An enemy *knows* you put on the -3 AC amulet to rest? And if it's quick-slotted, how long does that vulnerability last?

An assassin can stalk their prey and try to guess when they'll use the amulet.

And all this focus on the meaningfulness on the value of the penalty is kinda funny given how little a Paladin needs that level 3 spell slot, when you actually get down to it; a level 20 Paladin will usually have their 3rd slot to spare anyway. If you could force a Paladin to wear it even during combat, the item simply wouldn't be worth it. It would be vendor junk. -3 AC and -3 saves is crippling for a slot item that's only really useful to mid-level Paladins.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Nemesis 24 on October 29, 2019, 05:30:00 PM
With regards to the assassination issue of the strongest amulet.   Thats precisely what its designed around.

The weaker ones make less of a difference.  A lvl 1 and a lvl 2 slot wont change much.  The lvl 3 one  ould however.  And now note what it does - on top of its effects it creates a red light.  Light items go by last equipped.  In other words, every time this amulet is put on, it is signalled to observers.  And if those observers are stealthers, the paladin is all but certainly unable to detect them.  Against such foes they are lethally vulnerable.

Also no paladin is going to use the aura of glory cloak.  Its a shorter duration than self cast.  Its there for others to take advantage of.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: zDark Shadowz on October 29, 2019, 06:47:52 PM
Kind of not worth worrying or arguing about assassination anyway, as soon as someone clicks hostile on the paladin, the paladin clicks their amulet quickslot. Not allowed to attack if you arent hostiled first. There's no timer to switch items.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: SardineTheAncestor on October 29, 2019, 06:54:18 PM
Agreed with above post, unless combat logs show people quickslotting as soon as they've been hostiled. Also agreed with the sentiment that people would sacrifice full duration spells in favour of spamming consumable items, especially ones that have many charges to expend. That's optimal play, and people who expect to gank with buffs are probably going for optimal play.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: aprogressivist on October 30, 2019, 12:30:55 AM
Kind of not worth worrying or arguing about assassination anyway, as soon as someone clicks hostile on the paladin, the paladin clicks their amulet quickslot. Not allowed to attack if you arent hostiled first. There's no timer to switch items.

First, it's an oversimplification to assume perfect defensive play. Even a quick slot button is one more thing to press, and one more thing that can go wrong in a critical moment.

Even then, the button press is still an opportunity cost. You could be pressing another button, a potion, whatever.

Lastly, the PvP rules don't have a timer, either -- the 10 second countdown in the Dislike toggle is a courtesy, not a hard rule.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Iridni Ren on October 30, 2019, 12:41:47 AM
Kind of not worth worrying or arguing about assassination anyway, as soon as someone clicks hostile on the paladin, the paladin clicks their amulet quickslot. Not allowed to attack if you arent hostiled first. There's no timer to switch items.

First, it's an oversimplification to assume perfect defensive play. Even a quick slot button is one more thing to press, and one more thing that can go wrong in a critical moment.

Even then, the button press is still an opportunity cost. You could be pressing another button, a potion, whatever.

It's an over-complication to niggle on and on about the tiniest of circumstances--the vanishingly small split-second when one button might be pressed instead of another in that hardly ever circumstance of an attempted assassination on a PC who happens to be resting and has a bad amulet equipped--versus all the almost infinitely more common times when that same PC is walking around with extra buffing.

It is an adage on the server that  the fight you lose is when you fight on the other person's terms. Hence, in this narrow circumstance that the attacker has watched and learned the paladin's pattern down to the second when her wards are down, when she swaps her equipment, and catches her right as she is about to nap...odds are she was going to lose any way. No matter what button she pressed.

When she is prepared, however, and fighting on her own terms, both PvP and PvE, you have succeeded in making a class (paladin) that is already over-whelming in that circumstance, even more powerful.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: SardineTheAncestor on October 30, 2019, 12:56:39 AM
Lastly, the PvP rules don't have a timer, either -- the 10 second countdown in the Dislike toggle is a courtesy, not a hard rule.

But it is metagaming and a rulebreak to cancel your rest and put on a combat amulet the moment you see 'hostile' pop up and you think a stealther is near. It's just very easy to excuse without a recording and a perfect log of who detected who when.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: aprogressivist on October 30, 2019, 01:32:17 AM
It's an over-complication to niggle on and on about the tiniest of circumstances--the vanishingly small split-second when one button might be pressed instead of another in that hardly ever circumstance of an attempted assassination on a PC who happens to be resting and has a bad amulet equipped--versus all the almost infinitely more common times when that same PC is walking around with extra buffing.

I'd like to point out that I am responding to the idea that there is nothing to talk about with the amulet's penalty; that this penalty is meaningless or trivial. That is what some of you are trying to assert.

Ours is the much lighter task of simply finding meaningful scenarios where the penalty matters, and if we find these, we've disproved your assertion. These "niggles" are counter-points over blanket assertions.

Quote
It is an adage on the server that  the fight you lose is when you fight on the other person's terms. Hence, in this narrow circumstance that the attacker has watched and learned the paladin's pattern down to the second when her wards are down, when she swaps her equipment, and catches her right as she is about to nap...odds are she was going to lose any way. No matter what button she pressed.

And yet a -3 AC and -3 saves could make a difference. For one it might be the difference between an Assassin succeeding or failing his Death Attack. It may make the difference with secondary or tertiary attacks in a flurry.

I've had a Wizard survive a Time Stop gank, back when Time Stop victims could still be damaged, while she was unbuffed.  She was lucky: secondary and tertiary flurry attacks missed.  If she had been suffering -3 AC and -3 saves, the gank might have killed her. If I'd had to remember to press one more button to get rid of -3 AC and -3 saves, the gank might have killed her.

The real argument here should be about whether the penalty is proportionate to the advantage gained... and I've already pointed out, it is easy to exaggerate how useful this amulet actually is. The most powerful spells that a Paladin gets at level 3 is Righteous Fury, but you only ever need one spell slot for that, since you can only cast it on yourself.  After that, further spell slots merely cast spells that can be matched by potion or alchemy buffs, or enchantments.

Quote
When she is prepared, however, and fighting on her own terms, both PvP and PvE, you have succeeded in making a class (paladin) that is already over-whelming in that circumstance, even more powerful.

This is mere vague hyperbole.  This argument could be made against adding any item for any strong class.

The facts of the matter are, if you don't trivialise the gank scenario or overstate the advantage of a level 3 Paladin spell slot, the item is not that big of a deal. If my level 20 Paladin had it, the only real use he'd have for it is to give someone else a Greater Magic Weapon buff, which is what a Wizard or Cleric can do -- and I doubt we'd be having this level of exaggeration and hullabaloo about an item granting a Wizard one level 3 slot.

If anything, this item is great for low/mid levels but not that useful for high levels, so precisely the kind of content some people have been clamouring for.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: Relapse on October 30, 2019, 03:30:47 AM
I'd like to point out that I am responding to the idea that there is nothing to talk about with the amulet's penalty; that this penalty is meaningless or trivial. That is what some of you are trying to assert.

Ours is the much lighter task of simply finding meaningful scenarios where the penalty matters, and if we find these, we've disproved your assertion. These "niggles" are counter-points over blanket assertions.

So you're asserting because one rare day the paladin may be vulnerable to an assassination attempt it's valid? That a 0.01% case scenario makes the 99.99% case unsubstantiated? ...  :? ... The negative value on the items to bring the editor cost down dont represent the actual IG negatives, it's superficial.

I just find switch in and out items tacky, I understand it's already well established culture but i'd rather see +spell slot items that people just want to keep on.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: aprogressivist on October 30, 2019, 03:59:30 AM
Again, those numbers aim to trivialise.

If you create a vulnerability, you help to create the opportunity to exploit it.  If I were an assassin going after a Paladin, I'd try to manipulate someone into giving the Paladin that item, just so that maybe I could stalk that Paladin and have a greater chance of killing them in a gank.

So yes. One meaningful scenario counters the assertion of meaningless ness. You may disagree, but it seems pretty meaningful to me.

And, again: this is a mere level 3 slot. Not that big of a deal. Not even a level 4 slot, which would give a Holy Sword spell -- something that is always valuable and desirable. The way people are reacting, you'd think we were talking about something that actually addressed a Paladin's weaknesses or greatly expanded their strength.

The whole topic of the place of "poisoned" items is also a greater discussion, and unfortunately the NWN engine doesn't help us there, but they do fit Ravenloft thematically. A Paladin lured to his doom because he wanted to punch above his weight is the sort of story we should want to tell here, and I think that item enables that sort of stories.

It's not perfect, sure, but if you made the penalties for using it last, then you'd have to up the power considerably to tempt people to use it. Because there is no way in hell a level 3 spell slot is worth -3 saves and AC. Heck, a level 3 slot is barely worth -1 AC and saves once you're high level.
Title: Re: Item Request Discussion Thread v2
Post by: BraveSirRobin on December 01, 2019, 12:52:36 AM
I am in firm agreement that the spellslot items are somewhat useless as a malus against a Paladin. After playing one up to level 19, I can say with relative ease that a Paladin doesn't really need spellslot items late game, because they can cast everything they need. So for most end-game or high level Paladins, it doesn't matter. It only matters to the enterprising Paladin who is trying to level up in PvE, and this amulet would only be worn before he rested to get his spells up, then changed out for an Amulet of Ra, and his Gauntlet of the Fallen Paladin would be switched out for say, crafted bracers or the like.


The phase of getting past your low-levels where those are most important is only a couple of months, and anyone who wants to dip out and avoid antagonistic RP during that time usually can with relative ease, so long as they keep their nose in their dungeon runs. That also being said, everyone is absolutely correct that it when a player is hostiled, they could just swap out their spell amulet for an Amulet of Ra or the like without any notice or issue. It creates a very narrow window of opportunity for an action that:


A) Is optionally roleplayed
B) Is imperceptible, because we can't see what kind of gear they're wearing
C) Still not going to help Assassins so much against Paladins in Full-Plate Armor w/ Improved Expertise up and their shield out, because that's a whole bunch of standing ac that isn't going away under almost any circumstances. Said amulet can be removed as a free action at any given point under the most optimal of conditions, and anyone who is nervous that they're going to be engaged in potentially antagonistic roleplay and/or that someone *might* try to kill them, will probably not be wearing this amulet.


So in reality, it only adds to the micromanagement of gear items, in the most practical sense except for maybe inexperienced, new players to PoTM. It isn't anything but a buff in PvE, and in PvP, it doesn't really matter because you don't really need the slots to be effective.