| Revision type__________________ | Level 6 ______ | Level 11 _____ | Level 16 _____ | Level 20 |
| Current | 1 week | 2 months | 9 months | 18 months |
| Slower for mainly low levels | 1 month | 5 months | 11 months | 20 months |
| Slower for mainly high levels | 1 week | 3 months | 13 months | 26 months |
| Slower for all | 1 month | 5 months | 18 months | 32 months |
I voted for making it harder for high levels. I think there's some balance issues regarding how much XP is handed out in Har'Akir.
I don't really consider 10 high level so that's why I'm avoiding the "make it slower for high levels" option that I would likely normally choose. I would not want to see things get slower around 10.
I voted for making it harder for high levels. I think there's some balance issues regarding how much XP is handed out in Har'Akir.
Should Har'Akir be fixed then, instead of just making everything else harder?
If you notice the diagram, the option "make it slower for high levels" only has a significantly impact on level 16 to 20.
If anything, leveling from 10+ needs to slow down a lot a lot. But I think slower across the board would be great....And then I want a delevel for my character so I can enjoy it!
Introducing a hard cap rather than a slow cap on leveling, to bring XP grinding to a complete halt.
Introducing a -hard- hard cap so that you physically cannot level after level 15 without a DM Approved application that shows your character has made a significant enough impact to -deserve- ascending to those levels, perhaps requiring a quest of high risk to do so.
I'd like to see a hard cap at level 16 that prevents xp earned through killing creatures. Your options to level would then be roleplaying or DM xp.
Exactly.I'd like to see a hard cap at level 16 that prevents xp earned through killing creatures. Your options to level would then be roleplaying or DM xp.
This would be awesome but then you run into the difficulties of some people never getting DM attention, accusations of favoritism start to pop up, etc.
I'd like to see a hard cap at level 16 that prevents xp earned through killing creatures. Your options to level would then be roleplaying or DM xp.
Alternatively drop it by 75% so that high level dungeons still have some benefit.
I'd then be fine with the rates as is.
Making it slower will not accomplish anything except maybe loosing some of our playerbase. Do not allow the ones who powerlevel to dictate the fun of the ones who enjoy the game as it is.
Making it slower will not accomplish anything except maybe loosing some of our playerbase. Do not allow the ones who powerlevel to dictate the fun of the ones who enjoy the game as it is.
I don't think it's relevant to discuss powerlevelling here, as it hardly matters with the cap. The numbers in the first post shouldn't differ that much from the experience of the casual player.
Making it slower will not accomplish anything except maybe loosing some of our playerbase. Do not allow the ones who powerlevel to dictate the fun of the ones who enjoy the game as it is.
I don't think it's relevant to discuss powerlevelling here, as it hardly matters with the cap. The numbers in the first post shouldn't differ that much from the experience of the casual player.
People still powerlevel, Soren, they just make alts and level those while their other character has hit the cap. I'm not saying it doesn't mitigate powergaming a bit, but it still happens.
Making it slower will not accomplish anything except maybe loosing some of our playerbase. Do not allow the ones who powerlevel to dictate the fun of the ones who enjoy the game as it is.
But Casuals don't have the issue? They aren't rushing up in levels. Unless you think 6 levels in 2-3 weeks is to fast?
I should also mention that making level progression slower will have the effect of making players will hold onto their characters for longer (and won't seek out the end to their character's story) and it will discourage them from making new characters. Things need to be made easier for new characters, not harder. We already have a pretty steep learning curve as is.
Making it slower will not accomplish anything except maybe loosing some of our playerbase. Do not allow the ones who powerlevel to dictate the fun of the ones who enjoy the game as it is.
I don't think it's relevant to discuss powerlevelling here, as it hardly matters with the cap. The numbers in the first post shouldn't differ that much from the experience of the casual player.
People still powerlevel, Soren, they just make alts and level those while their other character has hit the cap. I'm not saying it doesn't mitigate powergaming a bit, but it still happens.
Oh yeah, people powerlevel in that way, but it's just not relevant to the topic. The aim is not to target powerlevellers in particular.
But Casuals don't have the issue? They aren't rushing up in levels. Unless you think 6 levels in 2-3 weeks is to fast?
I think powerleveling is a large part of the problem, though. It's very easy to go to the msit camp and tag along in a power leveling session. I was playerside somewhat recently and had a scene cut short because the people I was RPing with wanted to go tag along a Perfidus run rather than RP, the people were all around level 6 at the time. And I see this fairly regularly when I'm DMing, people tagging along endgame dungeon runs because it's easy XP. If powerleveling effected only those who did it, it wouldn't be an issue. BUT, as things are, it's leeching out and effecting other aspects of the server.
Making it slower will not accomplish anything except maybe loosing some of our playerbase. Do not allow the ones who powerlevel to dictate the fun of the ones who enjoy the game as it is.
I don't think it's relevant to discuss powerlevelling here, as it hardly matters with the cap. The numbers in the first post shouldn't differ that much from the experience of the casual player.
People still powerlevel, Soren, they just make alts and level those while their other character has hit the cap. I'm not saying it doesn't mitigate powergaming a bit, but it still happens.
Oh yeah, people powerlevel in that way, but it's just not relevant to the topic. The aim is not to target powerlevellers in particular.
I think powerleveling is a large part of the problem, though. It's very easy to go to the msit camp and tag along in a power leveling session. I was playerside somewhat recently and had a scene cut short because the people I was RPing with wanted to go tag along a Perfidus run rather than RP, the people were all around level 6 at the time. And I see this fairly regularly when I'm DMing, people tagging along endgame dungeon runs because it's easy XP. If powerleveling effected only those who did it, it wouldn't be an issue. BUT, as things are, it's leeching out and effecting other aspects of the server.
I should also mention that making level progression slower will have the effect of making players will hold onto their characters for longer (and won't seek out the end to their character's story) and it will discourage them from making new characters. Things need to be made easier for new characters, not harder. We already have a pretty steep learning curve as is.
I'm definitely against slowing down low level xp gain. I feel that low levels should always be pretty easy to obtain, and if it's made harder all it will be doing is punishing casual players who already have difficulty obtaining levels. It would also likely increase the reluctance to closure higher level characters as the difficulty in starting new characters would seem excrutiating.
Overall I think our current rates are fine.
I like that it's pretty easy to reach level 10. Once you're level 10 you can generally contribute something positive to almost any party you join. Slowing the progression at lower levels would tend to segregate lower players longer from engaging with higher level characters.
The low levels are the bullied levels too, and I like that you can't bully someone for too long, because they'll soon be formidable enough to cause you to question your actions.
I should also mention that making level progression slower will have the effect of making players will hold onto their characters for longer (and won't seek out the end to their character's story) and it will discourage them from making new characters. Things need to be made easier for new characters, not harder. We already have a pretty steep learning curve as is.
You're not allowed to just agree! That's too friendly!I should also mention that making level progression slower will have the effect of making players will hold onto their characters for longer (and won't seek out the end to their character's story) and it will discourage them from making new characters. Things need to be made easier for new characters, not harder. We already have a pretty steep learning curve as is.I'm definitely against slowing down low level xp gain. I feel that low levels should always be pretty easy to obtain, and if it's made harder all it will be doing is punishing casual players who already have difficulty obtaining levels. It would also likely increase the reluctance to closure higher level characters as the difficulty in starting new characters would seem excrutiating.
Overall I think our current rates are fine.I like that it's pretty easy to reach level 10. Once you're level 10 you can generally contribute something positive to almost any party you join. Slowing the progression at lower levels would tend to segregate lower players longer from engaging with higher level characters.
The low levels are the bullied levels too, and I like that you can't bully someone for too long, because they'll soon be formidable enough to cause you to question your actions.
I agree with all these points
It seems to me like the same people who question why other people care about their leveling progression when it 'doesnt affect them' are the same ones that often times comment to me in other mediums about a lack of DM attention.I would agree with this to some extent but I would also point out that this only answers why a DM would care about high level characters. Not, say, what business it is of another player whom I may have never even interacted with before.
Here's a hint as to why other people care about your leveling progression: It is hard to challenge and frighten high level characters with anything short of a full psychological/mental attack which needs to be highly personalized and individual rather than something that can be tailored for a whole group. They find it even harder to balance and properly scare a group of people when half of them are lower leveled hanging around said higher levels. This is especially true when said higher levels seem to scoff at many things that a lower leveled party would find frightening.and why wouldn't they? They've fought demons and elder undead on the daily?
You can't have it both ways, and I'm only bringing this up as an answer to the "Why someone else's level and ability matters to anyone else" inquiry. (Also, if I could I'd rebuild the server with: Barovia > Borca> Forlorn/Kartakass>Sithicus>Hazlan> Darkon)
(Also, if I could I'd rebuild the server with: Barovia > Borca> Forlorn/Kartakass>Sithicus>Hazlan> Darkon)
I should also mention that making level progression slower will have the effect of making players will hold onto their characters for longer (and won't seek out the end to their character's story) and it will discourage them from making new characters. Things need to be made easier for new characters, not harder. We already have a pretty steep learning curve as is.I'm definitely against slowing down low level xp gain. I feel that low levels should always be pretty easy to obtain, and if it's made harder all it will be doing is punishing casual players who already have difficulty obtaining levels. It would also likely increase the reluctance to closure higher level characters as the difficulty in starting new characters would seem excrutiating.
Overall I think our current rates are fine.I like that it's pretty easy to reach level 10. Once you're level 10 you can generally contribute something positive to almost any party you join. Slowing the progression at lower levels would tend to segregate lower players longer from engaging with higher level characters.
The low levels are the bullied levels too, and I like that you can't bully someone for too long, because they'll soon be formidable enough to cause you to question your actions.
I agree with all these points
The XP already is decreased significantly for those levels.
Read the thread.
The issue isn't power leveling, it's bunnying lowbies with high lvl chars.
Ill point out being invovled in dm events will level you faster then any dungeon in Harakir will if you get into a story arc and can follow through. Those that grind are just trying keep up with those that rp, where they feel comfortable at. Or just enjoy doing it.
I would be in favor of //increasing// exp gains for those that wished it, they will find their characters will burn out faster and there will be less attachment in losing them, knowing your time wasnt wasted (but this is in course subjective for each player in how they view time spent)
You may hate high level magic, but you should not be discouraging players from attaining it , if that was their goal. You can react to it as how you see fit, allow them to have their fun, share in the narrative (or dont) but there should be room to bargain with all players about what they want, or dont want. Lately all the ideas have been remove this, lower this, nerf this.
Our roleplay manifest is the best code of conduct we have , and should probably reveiwed more often then offering all these changes of late. I would rather take a step back from stuff I dont like and allow others to have their fun, then take it and chase parts of our player base away.
I'd like to see a hard cap at level 16 that prevents xp earned through killing creatures. Your options to level would then be roleplaying or DM xp.
Alternatively drop it by 75% so that high level dungeons still have some benefit.
I'd then be fine with the rates as is.
For people who gain XP slowly and are concerned, I think the solution would be more along the lines of increasing the XP reduction for blind drive, that wouldn't effect you guys nearly as much.
For people who gain XP slowly and are concerned, I think the solution would be more along the lines of increasing the XP reduction for blind drive, that wouldn't effect you guys nearly as much.
Low levels are really good for initial character development, with leveling being a good way to represent the character growing as a character.
For people who gain XP slowly and are concerned, I think the solution would be more along the lines of increasing the XP reduction for blind drive, that wouldn't effect you guys nearly as much.
I think this may appease most of the people on this thread, and the most different types of play styles honestly, because it's only effecting the people it's already meant to effect, just for a bit more. It's probably also one of the easiest changes to actually implement without it being too unbalanced to preexisting characters.
Low levels are really good for initial character development, with leveling being a good way to represent the character growing as a character.
That is in part why it never bothered me that I was levelling so much more slowly than others. I actually feel a real sense of achievement when I gain a level after months of playing. It feels like there was a journey, and things were learned. Just doesn't have the same feeling to it when you gain 3-4 levels in a week.
I believe this matter is quite complex and there cannot be a unique point of view, of course.
Mine is this. The level progression of this server has always been quite slow, especially for the higher levels, but also for the first levels: I managed to hit level 6 during the NCE but it was circumstantial, since I'm aware in the same time I would have hit probably level 4 if high levels were around. There was more possibilities for RP and there were parties more balanced while dungeoning, this is my opinion.
I've been playing here with occasional interruptions for 8 years by now and I admit when the server was smaller (no Dementlieu, Hazlan, Har-Akir, Sithicus, Blaustein, Perfidius, Wachter's lands, not many dungeons in Village of Barovia etc), there were just a few areas which could grant decent xps for dungeoning, and once you hit some level 14-15 dungeoning became hardly rewarding at all. At that time there were even no crafts, if not smithing, and herbalism was something new (probably around 6-7 years ago), alchemy came even later, magical weapons were rarer. Believe me if you were not there, it was not easy at all to even yearn at lev 20. Yet there were people who managed.
Now the situation is clearly different, many things have changed, and some things are easier: if you don't find a good spawn, you may check the other dozens dungeons for your levels. If you need to lift the cap of your characters, you may commit to one of the exhaustive crafts.
The sense of progression here is mainly related to the stories, there are some who, more favourable in time zones, are more involved than others, but the server is never empty; our biography boards are full with many interesting stories of the players, most of them are things which have happened in game.
However I am with Prophet here, there is also a sense of satisfaction in the mechanical progression, for a series of reasons which have been widely stated already (the need of some skills, feats, etc to shape the character more, for instance), and sometimes some of us (me included) cannot really spend more than a couple of hours daily here, and making things harder would easily spoil part of the fun.
On the other hand there is a matter of attitude, and as an Italian I'm well aware of this. You can find even the most complex algorythm to have a proper balance on progression or whatever, but those who have the proper skills to level up faster will do anyway, while those who are already slow in levelling will be just slower. The attitude, in general, which should be changed is that levelling up is more important than the shared narrative we're all involved in: level progression, in my view, is good as it is, and something more could be done by us players. However I admit some dungeons could be tweaked in terms of reward/danger. I personally do not have any lev 20 in my vault, my max level character is a 19 which I have used extensively for 2-3 years, when I could commit up to 8 hours daily, but I never complained of her being slow: she was part of some of the most fun stories I was ever involved. I was hungry for stories and involvement. Had she been slower, yes, I would have enjoyed the stories as well, but for sure she would have been less "shaped" in the mechanical build (and this doesn't mean anything necessarily related to fighting but also social skills).
In my view things should remain the same, with some tweaking here and there. But however things are done and decided, I fully trust in the Developing team wider vision, and I will, personally, try as usual to be happy with the stories around my characters.
I am pretty sure that characters who haven't dungeoned for a long time are rewarded with bonus XP when they do, but I am not sure how much or if I am just imagining the effect.
I don't find them tedious at all, I find them the most rewarding. The early levels of a new char are when i find you make the best ties to other characters. Because everyone's looking for people to help adventure with. Once you start getting up there in level people tend to solo the usual hot spots and become rather reclusive to their own cliques.
'I don't find them tedious at all, I find them the most rewarding. The early levels of a new char are when i find you make the best ties to other characters. Because everyone's looking for people to help adventure with. Once you start getting up there in level people tend to solo the usual hot spots and become rather reclusive to their own cliques.
When it comes to times when NCE isn't active, I struggle to find anyone to actually roleplay with. Everyone is very reclusive, or is playing a character in another domain.
'I don't find them tedious at all, I find them the most rewarding. The early levels of a new char are when i find you make the best ties to other characters. Because everyone's looking for people to help adventure with. Once you start getting up there in level people tend to solo the usual hot spots and become rather reclusive to their own cliques.
When it comes to times when NCE isn't active, I struggle to find anyone to actually roleplay with. Everyone is very reclusive, or is playing a character in another domain.
While this may veer off topic a bit I usually find you won't get a whole lot of RP unless you initiate it somehow.
If you see a schmuck just say hi to him because it's like dating where you just keep polling until someone responds.
'I don't find them tedious at all, I find them the most rewarding. The early levels of a new char are when i find you make the best ties to other characters. Because everyone's looking for people to help adventure with. Once you start getting up there in level people tend to solo the usual hot spots and become rather reclusive to their own cliques.
When it comes to times when NCE isn't active, I struggle to find anyone to actually roleplay with. Everyone is very reclusive, or is playing a character in another domain.
While this may veer off topic a bit I usually find you won't get a whole lot of RP unless you initiate it somehow.
If you see a schmuck just say hi to him because it's like dating where you just keep polling until someone responds.
By me dinner and drinks, and I'll be happy to talk to you. :)
I noticed that the cap became a lot harsher at lower levels soon after this topic. I think a lot of people are just starting to notice it due to NCE.
I've noticed a lot of people already going back to playing older characters, and I could be wrong but I think it might be due to being permanently capped from level 3. It makes dungeoning feel pretty worthless and there's only so long you can do tavern RP before you want to do something more interesting. That could just be me though.
I'm not presuming to speak for everyone but I think the cap was fine before it was changed and now it's just tedious. The votes were 62% in favour of not changing it when this topic was made.
I suppose all the rp that is going on is utterly meaningless if one can't get the next level?
getting level 6 in just one to two weeks makes you hardly experience those levels.
I suppose all the rp that is going on is utterly meaningless if one can't get the next level?
My only complaint about the level gain is that of all the cahracters I've had so far not one of them has ever made level 20. Be nice if I could have a level 20 character one day but the way the XP progression goes on this server that is never likely going to happen as I generally loose interest in my characters well before the cap is ever reached :P
My only complaint about the level gain is that of all the cahracters I've had so far not one of them has ever made level 20. Be nice if I could have a level 20 character one day but the way the XP progression goes on this server that is never likely going to happen as I generally loose interest in my characters well before the cap is ever reached :P
Like Tarrasque said, I long ago acknowledged that I would never be able to fully experience the end-game content on PotM, simply because by level 14, I either grow tired of the character and start up something fresh or he or she dies for good in a manner that is fitting to said character. This makes the revelation that it's harder to level a new character up all the more frustrating and irksome, in my opinion.
Characters, as they level, receive feats, skills, and spells which help to define them. There can be no separating the levels one acquires and these things that ultimately make that character unique and interesting. They help players fully realize the concepts they have for their character.
The lowering of the XP cap doesn't punish people who grind continuously; however, it does punish people who play a particular character exclusively for a set length of time and generally don't make alts.
Ugh, anything slower at 9-12 would be quit worthy. I'd like to at least reach Sithicus.
I suppose all the rp that is going on is utterly meaningless if one can't get the next level?
Ugh, anything slower at 9-12 would be quit worthy. I'd like to at least reach Sithicus.
sithicus?:D
Last of the new areas i've seen was like 20% of Harakir:D And i think the new "RP" zones of Dementliue:D
I think highest i ever got was 14.
But currently my highest level char will not really and likely have ANY reason to leave barovia:) (Morninglordian:P)(not to mention he is nowhere near 14:D)
I think if all goes according to plan i may reach level 12 with rudrig around 2017 and then i can continue my exploration of Harakir, maybe even try a visit to ghastria and Hazlan to see what those places even are:D
This may be just me, but I try not to let the cap dictate the way I play. I actually pretty well ignore it. Who cares if you don't get as much xp from killing things. For me, joining up in a group and smashing things is fun and I'm not going to let a silly ooc cap stop me from having fun, weather it is rping or dungeoning. And honestly, the time spent not playing a character to remove cap vs the time spent dungeoning on blind drive are pretty damn even in my opinion.
A morninglord player could leave Barovia to spread the message of the Morninglord, to aid those in need, to help fight evil in other lands. I don't see why they would need to be exclusive to Barovia
But we also recognise that at the lowest level you are more eager to see an increased progression than at later levels.
I think I disagree with everything you said there. Im actually fustrated with the current progression to the point Iv lost a lot desire to continue. I would expect in a two week period to be between 7-9, not lv 5. It makes trying more, tedious then it should be. If somebody is maximizing xp, thats their business and likely have some goal or agenda. It cant possibly be about gear or build because theres none to be had in a ncw . If your playing more hours, its obviousl you should be higher level then the ones who are not.
If they spend a week at lv 4 while others are lv 8 , which is /highly/ unlikely and inhuman amount of sleep time along with similar pcs to help attain that, then likely that lv 4 is accomplishing other goals
Now where have you seen anyone complain that they felt their low level is being unrewarded for somebody passing them up?
This has literally nothing to do with RP.
It seems to me that you're making the presumption that rp and dungeoning are mutually exclusive-which they are not.
Does this mean that the low levels are worthless and the real rp doesn't happen till you are higher level?
Does this mean that the low levels are worthless and the real rp doesn't happen till you are higher level?
No one is suggesting that - as Panda pointed out, someone's concern about level progression does not suggest they don't care about RP. Regarding your posts - you obviously feel very strongly about quality roleplay, which is outstanding. The sarcastic/passive-aggressive comments toward people who enjoy dungeoning and who are questioning if level progression has slowed down really aren't warranted. The great thing about POTM is that it caters to a variety of play styles. Because some may differ from yours, doesn't make the concerns of those players less valid.
It seems to me that you're making the presumption that rp and dungeoning are mutually exclusive-which they are not.
Some of the best RP I've experienced on the server has happened while in a dungeon. As a mysterious old wise man once said - RP and combat are not mutually exclusive. My main issue with leveling at a slower pace is that you're stuck in the same areas for a long time. Instead of being able to move to a more difficult location and adventure somewhere like the Terg Ruins (coincidentally, two of my all time favorite RP encounters happened there - during 2 separate NCE's!), you're stuck adventuring to the same areas repeatedly. If anything, I think that runs more of a risk making RP go stale.
To be fair the only thing I was doing by posting was acknowledging that I also perceive a change in how fast we're getting XP capped at low levels. It effects my ability or desire to dungeon in no way at all, its just noticeable.
And I still maintain this has nothing to do with role play. Dungeoning and role playing aren't mutually exclusive unless you chose to make them so.
What is the average hourly game play time for that 7 days to hit level 6 though from the original post? Is that based off 2 hours a day, 5 hours a day... Different time will quickly add up.
It seems to me that you're making the presumption that rp and dungeoning are mutually exclusive-which they are not.
They're not at all and you're right, so why stop dungeoning when you stop getting XP or start getting less XP?
If people enjoy dungeoning, which is quite fine, then why stop doing it when there's no XP? To me, it says that it's not dungeoning that people like, it's the XP gains.
To be fair the only thing I was doing by posting was acknowledging that I also perceive a change in how fast we're getting XP capped at low levels. It effects my ability or desire to dungeon in no way at all, its just noticeable.
And I still maintain this has nothing to do with role play. Dungeoning and role playing aren't mutually exclusive unless you chose to make them so.
I haven't seen or heard from Soren this week. He'd be able to answer the original question.
Judging by the initial post, it'd take 7 days to hit 6. Most people who have stopped playing due to caps after 4-5 days were around level 4, which means that in 4-5 days they went from level 2 to somewhere in 4; if the progression is normal, in the remaining 2-3 days, they'd go from 4 to the beginning of 6 if they kept playing. One week to hit level 6 seems very reasonable to me.
To be fair the only thing I was doing by posting was acknowledging that I also perceive a change in how fast we're getting XP capped at low levels. It effects my ability or desire to dungeon in no way at all, its just noticeable.
And I still maintain this has nothing to do with role play. Dungeoning and role playing aren't mutually exclusive unless you chose to make them so.
I haven't seen or heard from Soren this week. He'd be able to answer the original question.
Judging by the initial post, it'd take 7 days to hit 6. Most people who have stopped playing due to caps after 4-5 days were around level 4, which means that in 4-5 days they went from level 2 to somewhere in 4; if the progression is normal, in the remaining 2-3 days, they'd go from 4 to the beginning of 6 if they kept playing. One week to hit level 6 seems very reasonable to me.
Actually to be honest when you put it this way I'm less convinced there has been a change. Under normal conditions outside of NCE I usually get a character to level 8 in about a week. My NCE character now is about half way to 6 I'd estimate and I definitely haven't dungeon'd as much.
Perhaps it's just the rate at which one gains XP? Like if you go to 3 dungeons that give a large amount one after the other, as opposed to several dungeons that give a lesser amount. You'd notice the cap faster?
To be fair the only thing I was doing by posting was acknowledging that I also perceive a change in how fast we're getting XP capped at low levels. It effects my ability or desire to dungeon in no way at all, its just noticeable.
And I still maintain this has nothing to do with role play. Dungeoning and role playing aren't mutually exclusive unless you chose to make them so.
I haven't seen or heard from Soren this week. He'd be able to answer the original question.
Judging by the initial post, it'd take 7 days to hit 6. Most people who have stopped playing due to caps after 4-5 days were around level 4, which means that in 4-5 days they went from level 2 to somewhere in 4; if the progression is normal, in the remaining 2-3 days, they'd go from 4 to the beginning of 6 if they kept playing. One week to hit level 6 seems very reasonable to me.
Actually to be honest when you put it this way I'm less convinced there has been a change. Under normal conditions outside of NCE I usually get a character to level 8 in about a week. My NCE character now is about half way to 6 I'd estimate and I definitely haven't dungeon'd as much.
Perhaps it's just the rate at which one gains XP? Like if you go to 3 dungeons that give a large amount one after the other, as opposed to several dungeons that give a lesser amount. You'd notice the cap faster?
Well, one thing I've seen this NCE is even more than most NCEs a tendency to dungeon in truly massive groups. Keep in mind that for every PC after six you keep in your party, you're losing a chunk of XP.
I think of think there could be less of a penalty to larger groups, especially if they are going for more challenging stuff that's likely at the appropriate CR rating of the entire group combined. Having big groups can be fun and can include people. No one complains about big groups in NCW, unless they are monsters hearing the outskirts bell. Huge groups should be an option for progression as long as they are doing high spawns.
They're also big targets for DM stuff, so it's all good.
I think of think there could be less of a penalty to larger groups, especially if they are going for more challenging stuff that's likely at the appropriate CR rating of the entire group combined. Having big groups can be fun and can include people. No one complains about big groups in NCW, unless they are monsters hearing the outskirts bell. Huge groups should be an option for progression as long as they are doing high spawns.
They're also big targets for DM stuff, so it's all good.
Well, I have actually heard a bit of grumpiness about big groups -- the massive runs through the crypts and such are borderline ridiculous with the sheer numbers of characters that pile in. I think people join big groups in NCE not necessarily because they like them, but because they can't afford not to join -- if they wait, the spawns will get cleared by others over and over and over again, and the player gets left out.
Personally, anything more than 6-7 characters maximum starts to get too crowded and out of hand, especially when everyone experiences different lag/latency issues. I actualy prefer slightly smaller groups of 5 or 6. Some of the best runs I have ever enjoyed were with 3 people.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
*hangs in frame next to other framed comment from this thread*
I'm willing to enjoy slow early levels if other people are similarly leveled. That's what makes NCE's so entertaining for me. I have a very hard time enjoying being as low leveled and slow when I'm in the company of much higher levels, because I feel suuuuper fragile and useless.
I'm willing to enjoy slow early levels if other people are similarly leveled. That's what makes NCE's so entertaining for me. I have a very hard time enjoying being as low leveled and slow when I'm in the company of much higher levels, because I feel suuuuper fragile and useless.This right here. I'm having to sacrifice roleplay just to keep up. If I don't keep up, my character will eventually be left in the dust when other characters move to other domains.
I'm having to sacrifice roleplay just to keep up.
Wizard and sorcerers stays behind all the time, they provide wards then get behind, cast a few spell, but otherwise they don't do much in a battle.
Wizard and sorcerers stays behind all the time, they provide wards then get behind, cast a few spell, but otherwise they don't do much in a battle.
Mostly true at lower levels, but once a wizard or sorc is around lvl 12-13, a player that knows what he is doing will be a huge asset in some fights. Try doing the last room of the Harvest Temple without a mage throwing fireballs around... you'll have a hard time!!!
Wizards and Sorcerers really start doing more in battles around those levels, but then, their power is exponential and they are the ones that can win a lose a battle most of time(i know same can be said of everyone in a balance group, but still)
Wizard and sorcerers stays behind all the time, they provide wards then get behind, cast a few spell, but otherwise they don't do much in a battle.
Mostly true at lower levels, but once a wizard or sorc is around lvl 12-13, a player that knows what he is doing will be a huge asset in some fights. Try doing the last room of the Harvest Temple without a mage throwing fireballs around... you'll have a hard time!!!
Wizards and Sorcerers really start doing more in battles around those levels, but then, their power is exponential and they are the ones that can win a lose a battle most of time(i know same can be said of everyone in a balance group, but still)
QuoteI'm having to sacrifice roleplay just to keep up.
And this, if you really have because to sacrifice Roleplay to keep up with other, then maybe you should try hanging with other people who level at rate closer to your. There is no point in playing a Roleplay game if you never get the chance to Roleplay :)
I personally continue to maintain that a slower leveling pace would give less incentive for people to make choices based solely on how much XP they will be getting.
capping adventuring XP pushes powergamers toward power roleplaying.
Given Powergamer, who is motivated purely by XP/levelling.
Given Socializer, who is motivated purely by roleplay.
Reducing the XP for both activities affects *only* Powergamer's motivation. Socializer is unaffected.
If Powergamer was motivated purely by *adventuring* (liking to kill monsters, say) rather than XP/levelling, then the two would be equivalent, but as stipulated, they're not.
I agree that "people who want to gain xp and level over everything else" will find how to do that. Hence, capping adventuring XP pushes powergamers toward power roleplaying.
Actually, that won't have any impact. You may halve the gains or double them, in the end some will always be ahead of the curve. And people grind to be ahead of the curve. Of course, if you had no loot and no XP, then yes people wouldn't adventure but that wouldn't be DnD anymore.
If a player is motivated exclusively by levelling fast and XP gain (which is how Powergamer was defined), then if one activity is capped and another is not, they have no choice when at cap but to go to the other activity. Or they will fall "behind the curve" of those who hit cap and do go to the other activity.
QuoteIf a player is motivated exclusively by levelling fast and XP gain (which is how Powergamer was defined), then if one activity is capped and another is not, they have no choice when at cap but to go to the other activity. Or they will fall "behind the curve" of those who hit cap and do go to the other activity.
Not quite. No matter how capped you are, you still gain XP. Do that enough, and you'll pass those who only RP. If we reduced XP over cap to the point where it was less than the equivalent amount of RP XP, we'd just be forcing one play-style on our playerbase. As it is, we incentivize RP but do not mandate it.
I personally continue to maintain that a slower leveling pace would give less incentive for people to make choices based solely on how much XP they will be getting.
I'm inclined to disagree with you on that. I don't believe that any amount of throttling of the leveling pace will stop people who want to gain xp and level over everything else from finding the best way of doing so and capitalizing on it. It might slow them down, sure. But if that's what someone wants to do with their game time that's what they're gonna do with it ya know?
Similarly, if less rp xp was given, do you think the people that play purely for the rp of the game would rp any less? Or if it was harder to make gold the people who like to become absurdly wealthy wouldn't still find the best way to make gold and make as much as they could off it?
Exordium, Im fairly sure that the cap /has/ already been made stronger at lower levels. I cant say I care for it. Its a huge investment to get past lv 10. I say most of my vault stopped around lv 12 after a few months. In average, I could get to 9 in a few weeks, prior to this change, but the same estimate to get to 12 never changed.
Going to DM events.. Since I believe DM exp is the same as Combat EXP. Might need a DM to clerifiy.. could be wrong on that.
Going to DM events.. Since I believe DM exp is the same as Combat EXP. Might need a DM to clerifiy.. could be wrong on that.
I don't think DM xp count in reaching the cap, I say this because my NCE guard got lvl 4 with mostly DM xp since I didn't dungeon or anything with him and with the cap message it gives after resting it's as if I haven't done dungeon... but I might be wrong too since I got that DM xp on many different occasion and it was also during a period of two weeks so... :P
Going to DM events.. Since I believe DM exp is the same as Combat EXP. Might need a DM to clerifiy.. could be wrong on that.
I don't think DM xp count in reaching the cap, I say this because my NCE guard got lvl 4 with mostly DM xp since I didn't dungeon or anything with him and with the cap message it gives after resting it's as if I haven't done dungeon... but I might be wrong too since I got that DM xp on many different occasion and it was also during a period of two weeks so... :P
DM XP counts towards the cap. You can get capped through DM XP (which was the case for my first PC who relied almost exclusively on DM XP to get to level 20).
DM XP counts towards the cap. You can get capped through DM XP (which was the case for my first PC who relied almost exclusively on DM XP to get to level 20).Going to DM events.. Since I believe DM exp is the same as Combat EXP. Might need a DM to clerifiy.. could be wrong on that.
I don't think DM xp count in reaching the cap, I say this because my NCE guard got lvl 4 with mostly DM xp since I didn't dungeon or anything with him and with the cap message it gives after resting it's as if I haven't done dungeon... but I might be wrong too since I got that DM xp on many different occasion and it was also during a period of two weeks so... :P
I wish there was an option for faster, to be honest.
How long does the "blind drive" usually stay? As in, for long would one have to stay inactive in adventuring approximately? Anyone know? ^^
How long does the "blind drive" usually stay? As in, for long would one have to stay inactive in adventuring approximately? Anyone know? ^^
Two weeks if I remember right.
Two weeks... I think that's a bit long, each time I have hit blind drive it took only like 4 - 5 of being inactive to get of blind drive if it's not less.
Two weeks is far from being the real number.
Two weeks... I think that's a bit long, each time I have hit blind drive it took only like 4 - 5 of being inactive to get of blind drive if it's not less.
Two weeks is far from being the real number.
4-5 days? That's a bit long too o.O
Just an idea that crossed my mind earlier when I was doing the Terg ruins at lvl 7 and getting almost no xp for it. I was told some dungeons around vallaki had their XP given tuned down. Dunno if a developper could confirm. If lower levels dungeons are giving less xp, it could be a reason why players are feeling they are leveling less faster then before.
Just an idea that crossed my mind earlier when I was doing the Terg ruins at lvl 7 and getting almost no xp for it. I was told some dungeons around vallaki had their XP given tuned down. Dunno if a developper could confirm. If lower levels dungeons are giving less xp, it could be a reason why players are feeling they are leveling less faster then before.
My only questons for this are... A: what was the spawn looking like.
And B: how many were there.
Because at a very minimum spawn like lowest of low, you are hardly going to get any exp if any at all.
Just an idea that crossed my mind earlier when I was doing the Terg ruins at lvl 7 and getting almost no xp for it. I was told some dungeons around vallaki had their XP given tuned down. Dunno if a developper could confirm. If lower levels dungeons are giving less xp, it could be a reason why players are feeling they are leveling less faster then before.
My only questons for this are... A: what was the spawn looking like.
And B: how many were there.
Because at a very minimum spawn like lowest of low, you are hardly going to get any exp if any at all.
It was almost max spawn and I was level 7. We were a group of 6
Just an idea that crossed my mind earlier when I was doing the Terg ruins at lvl 7 and getting almost no xp for it. I was told some dungeons around vallaki had their XP given tuned down. Dunno if a developper could confirm. If lower levels dungeons are giving less xp, it could be a reason why players are feeling they are leveling less faster then before.
My only questons for this are... A: what was the spawn looking like.
And B: how many were there.
Because at a very minimum spawn like lowest of low, you are hardly going to get any exp if any at all.
It was almost max spawn and I was level 7. We were a group of 6
then either someone was to high level.. Or the things you were near were not high enough to give exp to a lvl 7 [shrugs]
Yeah, honestly not having your exact xp gain tracked at all times is sort of liberating, for me anyway xD
I'm sure there's people that can have it tracked and not ever pay attention to it, but when I have the numbers right there in front of me it's hard for me not to pay attention and that just gets me working things out in my head and then I'm no longer focused on what's happening around me, the rp and all that, but planning what exactly I need to do for how long to get the xp I want. It's no fun.
Yeah, honestly not having your exact xp gain tracked at all times is sort of liberating, for me anyway xD
I'm sure there's people that can have it tracked and not ever pay attention to it, but when I have the numbers right there in front of me it's hard for me not to pay attention and that just gets me working things out in my head and then I'm no longer focused on what's happening around me, the rp and all that, but planning what exactly I need to do for how long to get the xp I want. It's no fun.
I often turn the current feedback messages off for the opposite reason. That is, their overt suggestion that I have been wasting my time ("you have done close to nothing" or whatever it is) when I've spent a day crafting, for example. This is especially true when I've recently levelled up and am not interested in being harangued about "how will you ever master your new powers if you don't put them to use?" and "if you want to move on, blah-blah-blah."
Numbers are numbers, and that you think you would obsess over them, well, that's your choice. The messages seem much more judgmental and an intentional goad, but at least they can be toggled off, I suppose.