Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist

Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Metal_ash on January 30, 2013, 06:43:55 PM

Title: sky high prices...
Post by: Metal_ash on January 30, 2013, 06:43:55 PM
Seems to have been something that had bugged out the prices.

At the vardo in mist camp, a scroll that normally had cost like 200 gold now all the sudden cost over 1000 gold.
This is just not one certain scrolls, but it goes for more or less all scrolls and potions as it seems, even other items to the prices have turned sky high on.

Sisters of hala in Port-a-Lucine use to charge like 150 gold for a brakskin potion. Now it cost over 700 gold.

Not checked if this is server wide but them locations i just mentioned seems to be effected of this.

// cheers.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Metal_ash on January 30, 2013, 06:53:12 PM
Correction on my post, is not certain about the items or scrolls yet, might have been my misstake... but the potion prices is rocket high.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: APorg on January 30, 2013, 06:54:14 PM
I know that Soren made a fix as part of the new herbalism developments that corrected something that under-priced potions. So it seems that before they were too cheap and now the new price is the "correct" price...
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Kaspar on January 30, 2013, 06:56:40 PM
Yes bring on player economy! The demand for bark skin potions is at an all time high!
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: APorg on January 30, 2013, 07:03:01 PM
This is not just the Barkskins, btw. One of the merchants' prices have gone up to 401 for a Barkskin and 601 for a Potion of Lore.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Mailbox0000 on January 30, 2013, 07:23:33 PM
MY BARKSKIN!  :shock:
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Badelaire on January 30, 2013, 07:47:27 PM
80 a potion was still kinda expensive considering how long they lasted and were an essential purchase for a character that doesn't have 9 spell circles to play with. At 400+ a pop, they're just too unmanageable. Practically unsustainable since any low to mid level melee that isn't faction supported, has a trading sponsor or can find a brewer will notice that lack of 3ac. Same could be said of the elevated prices, it just seems to increase the divide between long established characters with the means to do without or cover the increase in price and the newer ones who aren't so lucky.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: APorg on January 30, 2013, 07:58:09 PM
It's a deliberate move to encourage the herbalism economy and to discourage soloers.

The positive side is that they have introduced new common herbalism ingredients that produce barkskin potions. (The old Barkskin (12) potions have, I believe, been changed to "Greater Barkskin potions" and now have a different recipe too, but I haven't tested this out IC so don't take my word for it.) I've seen that new barkskin herb commonly sprouting from both forest and grass herb nodes so there will probably be an abundance of ingredients to create Barkskin (3) potions.

Personally I'm quite pleased with the new medium because it's really a coming together of a lot of good ideas. There was a bit of a debate amongst the Dev team and I'm very happy that constructive criticism has been taken on board. I think the current system wlll hopefully prove to be the right balance.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: APorg on January 30, 2013, 07:59:43 PM
Also, moving this thread to the Systems forum since I'm fairly sure this is not a bug, but WAD. :)
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Fierna on January 30, 2013, 08:11:25 PM
Found the new recipe for the barkskin potions, but does that mean the tree sap is no longer useful?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: APorg on January 30, 2013, 08:13:33 PM
There's the Greater Barkskin for Barkskin (12) now, I think...
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Lucadia on January 30, 2013, 09:25:17 PM
Prices on scrolls has shot up along with potions though.

Used be able buy invisibility scrolls at 230. now at 340

and exp retreat scrolls at 79. now 109

Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Purist on January 30, 2013, 09:33:37 PM
Probably the said fix in Outcast Rating not properly affecting prices.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Lucadia on January 30, 2013, 09:36:18 PM
Probably the said fix in Outcast Rating not properly affecting prices.

seems a bit odd for it to affect the black market
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Metal_ash on January 31, 2013, 11:50:43 PM
 discourage soloers??? You do know that most that actually do solo anything of worth here are casters and hardly make use of potions anyways.

It strikes far harder on the no caster classes then anything else, as they are in dire need of potions to get by at times.

It is what it is, but in Port-a-Lucine they charged like 150 gold for a barkskin before, now over 700, the increased price may in my opinion be a little to much.

Anyways, just what i think.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: dutchy on February 01, 2013, 12:15:55 AM
first of all sorry, but the urge to do this was to great and its a time of day that im to weak to resist, plus this topic needed some humor.

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/34167494.jpg)

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/34167532.jpg)

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/34167557.jpg)

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/34167586.jpg)

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/34167623.jpg)
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Ercvadasz on February 01, 2013, 02:32:42 AM
discourage soloers??? You do know that most that actually do solo anything of worth here are casters and hardly make use of potions anyways.

It strikes far harder on the no caster classes then anything else, as they are in dire need of potions to get by at times.

It is what it is, but in Port-a-Lucine they charged like 150 gold for a barkskin before, now over 700, the increased price may in my opinion be a little to much.

Anyways, just what i think.

Some of the loots priceings have been altered too. For instance a fine paintaing may have the price of 180 and 450 gold pieces. Still not worth a potion, but at least it is something.

About the prices, well the only potion you could buy was usually barkskin potion nothing much else folks really bought. And that actually will not make the soloers be discouraged, since most soloers, actually just ninjaloot the place if possible, or if it is more worth it.
I think we will see more ninjalooting and less dungeon clearing.
For instance, my character has a number of places which he can clear, with the help of a barkskin potion, but also can ninjaloot.
Usually if i clear a dungeon i do it for alchemical reagents, and not xp, since i can barely kill anything that would give me xp, and it requires such an amount of potion and other consumables to be used up, that with the new potion priceing system it will be definetly not worth it, since i get meager xp, and the gold i would make from a run, would not suffice to replace the potions i have used up. (Especially with 700 per barkskin bottle.)
Allthough my character is in a special position in which he has major problems finding himself a party or getting anyone to help him to go to a dungeon.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Bad_Bud on February 01, 2013, 06:26:13 AM
Some of the potion prices definitely need looking at.  Potions like the commercial Potion of Elemental Warding were too expensive even before the potion change to justify the cost.  But... now...

Potion of Elemental Warding: 3002 coins, for one potion in Hazlan.  That's more than any scroll in the shop!
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: APorg on February 01, 2013, 06:43:11 AM
What OCR does your character have, out of interest?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 01, 2013, 08:26:25 AM
Concerning what I fixed about potion pricing:

The issue was that NWN had a modifier on potion costs so that they only cost 20% of any other item providing the exact same effect. A potion of barkskin would be cheaper than a scroll of barkskin - which makes very little sense, at least from a balance perspective. And compared to items like our essences of catatonia etc., potions would have the further benefit of weighting less and be stackable.

The second issue recently resolved revolved merchant and appraise/OCR. Due to our fairly low merchants' buying prices, I had at some point long ago lowered the maximum possible variation to 5% of total cost (can go in either direction). I realised though that that made the variation on merchants' selling prices quite diminutive, so I restored that to Bioware's default of 30%.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 01, 2013, 08:33:15 AM
Some of the potion prices definitely need looking at.  Potions like the commercial Potion of Elemental Warding were too expensive even before the potion change to justify the cost.  But... now...

Potion of Elemental Warding: 3002 coins, for one potion in Hazlan.  That's more than any scroll in the shop!

Just checked this - the issue is that for some reason, the spell used the level 10 version rather than  the level 3 version, even though, to my knowledge, there's no advantage of that.

That said, the Hazlan shop is an oversight altogether and generally violates our standards on what shops should sell. Once we expand the herbalism system to cover all domains, most potions there will probably have to go.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Badelaire on February 03, 2013, 11:43:02 AM
Looking through the mist vendor, some of the prices are beyond crazy. 9678 for an ankh of ptah?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Ercvadasz on February 03, 2013, 02:03:26 PM
Looking through the mist vendor, some of the prices are beyond crazy. 9678 for an ankh of ptah?

Not really, that item was allways undervalued.
7 charges of FOM, beside all the bonuses it gives? I would say that was one of the most underpriced item, based on its usefullness.
Also it is not that hard to get that kind of money together.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Silverfox on February 03, 2013, 02:06:12 PM
...Ankh of Ptah is just +5 lore?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Green Monster on February 03, 2013, 02:22:16 PM
It's a deliberate move to encourage the herbalism economy and to discourage soloers.


After spending so much time playing NWN Minecraft to gather herbs then brew them, I don't have time to stand around the outskirts selling potions. Most ppl I know craft potions for the use of themselves and their friends only. There's just not enough time to sell them as well unless being a full time merchant is what you want to do.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Dusk on February 03, 2013, 02:51:02 PM
Also of note: The CLW potions sold by the vendor to new characters are now 101gp per potion.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 03, 2013, 03:48:06 PM
I like Minecraft!
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Dread on February 03, 2013, 03:48:35 PM
I like Minecraft!

Who doesn't?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: dutchy on February 03, 2013, 03:53:21 PM
I like Minecraft!

Who doesn't?

me (i truly dislike it)
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Fierna on February 03, 2013, 03:54:57 PM
I like Minecraft!

Minecraft is great!
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Silverfox on February 03, 2013, 04:01:32 PM
Hate Minecraft. Fiercely.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on February 03, 2013, 04:02:53 PM
Dwarf Fortress > Minecraft.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: RedwizardD on February 03, 2013, 04:11:53 PM
I think they can both be !!fun!!
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on February 03, 2013, 04:14:56 PM
I think they can both be !!fun!!

+1

Also, way to derail the thread Soren.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Badelaire on February 03, 2013, 04:31:03 PM
Mebbe Rhymo should host a PotM minecraft server if he's still alive then? Eh Rhymo?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 03, 2013, 04:54:43 PM
I think they can both be !!fun!!

+1

Also, way to derail the thread Soren.

Hehe, well, I think it does say something relevant to the topic. Crafting and player inter-trading might just be tedious to some (to the point they feel like ridicule it), but I personally think it makes good sense having it act as central parts of the experience. It really adds a lot of dynamism.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on February 03, 2013, 05:00:08 PM
Agreed, I personally hate grinding things like that but it adds a whole other level to the server and frankly, just because I don't enjoy it doesn't mean it shouldn't be there.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: dutchy on February 03, 2013, 05:10:44 PM
inter trading is not a problem, all rpg's have that BUT when the traders also use high prices, with that i mean pc traders then it cripples.

does this mean that the prices go up aswell when you sell an item to a merchant?  cause that balances it out.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 03, 2013, 05:14:31 PM
inter trading is not a problem, all rpg's have that BUT when the traders also use high prices, with that i mean pc traders then it cripples.

does this mean that the prices go up aswell when you sell an item to a merchant?  cause that balances it out.

Yeah, it does.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Kaspar on February 03, 2013, 05:40:26 PM
inter trading is not a problem, all rpg's have that BUT when the traders also use high prices, with that i mean pc traders then it cripples.

Cause and effect! If merchants charge to much people will under cut them like me.  :D
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: dutchy on February 03, 2013, 05:45:35 PM
inter trading is not a problem, all rpg's have that BUT when the traders also use high prices, with that i mean pc traders then it cripples.

does this mean that the prices go up aswell when you sell an item to a merchant?  cause that balances it out.

Yeah, it does.

then i dont see the problem, if a 100 gp item is now sold for 250 to a vendor and the items on the vendor cost more then nothing has changed just the numbers.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Gilad Abrams on February 03, 2013, 06:13:36 PM
From what I've seen so far your getting less from the vendor not more when you sell to him. Also as mentioned above prices are insane for stuff the vendors are reselling.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Silverfox on February 03, 2013, 06:27:15 PM
I've noted a decent mark up in rates, but then I play characters who invest heavily in Appraise.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Ophie Kitty on February 03, 2013, 06:35:21 PM
It's a deliberate move to encourage the herbalism economy and to discourage soloers.


After spending so much time playing NWN Minecraft to gather herbs then brew them, I don't have time to stand around the outskirts selling potions. Most ppl I know craft potions for the use of themselves and their friends only. There's just not enough time to sell them as well unless being a full time merchant is what you want to do.

..I remember the older days, one potion at a time. (Damn you Threnn, where ever you are..)
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Smitehammer on February 04, 2013, 12:00:22 AM
Yeah, Kalin is a brewing fiend - I can succeed at anything I touch on him now with herbalism.  Yet, I still only give potions out to a small smattering of people.  There's just no way to collect enough of everything to make stacks of potions for the selling.  Good luck all you non-casters! 

Or if you're not a caster and you can't find any potions or varnishes to purchase, jjust make a con-based barbarian.  Even if you're dumb as a brick, for some reason you'll just constitution yourself into being the ultimate craftsman!  Alchemy, herbalism, metalworking (smelting anyway) and I think even leather working - all you need is the ability to eat day-old sushi without vomiting to be a champion!  And you get mega-hit points and more skill points than a fighter!  So if you're not going caster, go conbarian.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Ophie Kitty on February 04, 2013, 12:06:55 AM
Yeah, Kalin is a brewing fiend - I can succeed at anything I touch on him now with herbalism.  Yet, I still only give potions out to a small smattering of people.  There's just no way to collect enough of everything to make stacks of potions for the selling.  Good luck all you non-casters! 

Or if you're not a caster and you can't find any potions or varnishes to purchase, jjust make a con-based barbarian.  Even if you're dumb as a brick, for some reason you'll just constitution yourself into being the ultimate craftsman!  Alchemy, herbalism, metalworking (smelting anyway) and I think even leather working - all you need is the ability to eat day-old sushi without vomiting to be a champion!  And you get mega-hit points and more skill points than a fighter!  So if you're not going caster, go conbarian.

Speaking of which, 8 con (or 6 con elves) is the absolute hard-mode of PotM. You cannot do alchemy or brewing.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Smitehammer on February 04, 2013, 12:13:43 AM
As a scientist of science I must admit that I never use my 'con score' in anything I do.  It's mostly 'int' in setting up everything, and then 'dex' in execution.  Transfer pipettes do not require me to take a punch to the kidneys.  They require a steady hand in a sterile environment.  Conan would not make the best biochemist in the real world - in Ravenloft he'd have a Nobel prize in everything.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 06, 2013, 05:29:55 AM
In DnD constitution also determine skills such as concentration. I would probably prefer having it set up so that one ability is primary and one secondary though, but it'll take some work.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: DangerousToGoAlone on February 06, 2013, 06:28:45 AM
Yeah, Kalin is a brewing fiend - I can succeed at anything I touch on him now with herbalism.  Yet, I still only give potions out to a small smattering of people.  There's just no way to collect enough of everything to make stacks of potions for the selling.  Good luck all you non-casters! 

Or if you're not a caster and you can't find any potions or varnishes to purchase, jjust make a con-based barbarian.  Even if you're dumb as a brick, for some reason you'll just constitution yourself into being the ultimate craftsman!  Alchemy, herbalism, metalworking (smelting anyway) and I think even leather working - all you need is the ability to eat day-old sushi without vomiting to be a champion!  And you get mega-hit points and more skill points than a fighter!  So if you're not going caster, go conbarian.

Speaking of which, 8 con (or 6 con elves) is the absolute hard-mode of PotM. You cannot do alchemy or brewing.

If your other stat is not a negative and 8 (or 6!), then it should still be doable, even if it is a bit harder.

My 8 wisdom elf does herbalism, she manages fine. Even though it had a rocky start :P
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Ophie Kitty on February 06, 2013, 05:07:58 PM
My 8con, 15wis cleric cannot brew.
Yeah, Kalin is a brewing fiend - I can succeed at anything I touch on him now with herbalism.  Yet, I still only give potions out to a small smattering of people.  There's just no way to collect enough of everything to make stacks of potions for the selling.  Good luck all you non-casters! 

Or if you're not a caster and you can't find any potions or varnishes to purchase, jjust make a con-based barbarian.  Even if you're dumb as a brick, for some reason you'll just constitution yourself into being the ultimate craftsman!  Alchemy, herbalism, metalworking (smelting anyway) and I think even leather working - all you need is the ability to eat day-old sushi without vomiting to be a champion!  And you get mega-hit points and more skill points than a fighter!  So if you're not going caster, go conbarian.

Speaking of which, 8 con (or 6 con elves) is the absolute hard-mode of PotM. You cannot do alchemy or brewing.

If your other stat is not a negative and 8 (or 6!), then it should still be doable, even if it is a bit harder.

My 8 wisdom elf does herbalism, she manages fine. Even though it had a rocky start :P
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: RedwizardD on February 06, 2013, 09:42:55 PM
My 8con, 15wis cleric cannot brew.
Yeah, Kalin is a brewing fiend - I can succeed at anything I touch on him now with herbalism.  Yet, I still only give potions out to a small smattering of people.  There's just no way to collect enough of everything to make stacks of potions for the selling.  Good luck all you non-casters! 

Or if you're not a caster and you can't find any potions or varnishes to purchase, jjust make a con-based barbarian.  Even if you're dumb as a brick, for some reason you'll just constitution yourself into being the ultimate craftsman!  Alchemy, herbalism, metalworking (smelting anyway) and I think even leather working - all you need is the ability to eat day-old sushi without vomiting to be a champion!  And you get mega-hit points and more skill points than a fighter!  So if you're not going caster, go conbarian.

Speaking of which, 8 con (or 6 con elves) is the absolute hard-mode of PotM. You cannot do alchemy or brewing.

If your other stat is not a negative and 8 (or 6!), then it should still be doable, even if it is a bit harder.

My 8 wisdom elf does herbalism, she manages fine. Even though it had a rocky start :P

Not herbalism but I've noticed that when one of my characters who had 5 ranks in hide curing lost a point of wisdom, he is for some reason was no longer able to do hide curing. It seems rather odd to just suddenly be..unable to. The same occurred with brewing but he never had any ranks in it anyway.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: RigorMortis on February 09, 2013, 02:35:58 AM
Healing tonics in the new Character area are 108gp each.

Hmmm. .  Equipment? or a potion? Hrm . .
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Ercvadasz on February 27, 2013, 07:30:21 PM
Healing tonics in the new Character area are 108gp each.

Hmmm. .  Equipment? or a potion? Hrm . .


Okay! So! I made a bit of exploring thinking and noticing things!

Currently the ML tonics are bought by the vistani for 200 gold. (New priceing of the potions affected them, basicly welcome to easy money!)
Most likely the potions that are made from drobita, and that other shroom, the vistani work with(forgot the name) for a small amount of cash, can most likely be sold for around 120-160 gold. (2 drobita +18 gold=CLW potion can sell for mentioned price.)
CSW reward potions that can be obtained when someone trades in certain 5 items most likely can be sold for around 600-1000 gold.(guessing!)
Heal potions that can be obtained as reward. (price cant even imagine, though most likely will not be sold.)

Basicly i think all potion rewards from now on can be considered as the ultimate and superior money making machine.
Terg crypts since the change most likely allows for players to get about at least 5000 extra gold as loot just from trading in the knuckles, and other items for potions and then selling them as well.

The question i have that what is the current stand on it? Is it an exploit? Or?

Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Lucadia on February 27, 2013, 07:54:38 PM
Consider it a nerf
 with how potions are now priced on the looting table, all the unique and rare potions that was  hard to get in the first place are now none existent
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 27, 2013, 08:48:30 PM
Consider it a nerf
 with how potions are now priced on the looting table, all the unique and rare potions that was  hard to get in the first place are now none existent

one thing this has effected and doesnt seem to have been fixed yet and was reported i think, was that the new character area light cure potiosn are now like 120 something each hows one to get equipment and a few tonics and stuff at that price?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: monsinyana on February 27, 2013, 09:46:45 PM
Most likely the potions that are made from drobita

we can make potions from drobita??

i never knew!
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: RigorMortis on February 27, 2013, 09:54:37 PM
Anything with a spell charge is now worth a whole lot, I have an appraise based character and in three hours I made just shy of 16,000 gold from selling morninglordian tonics. It is now laughably easy to get money.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Lucadia on February 27, 2013, 10:12:31 PM
and since prices of spells went up, any item with spell charges is very expensive to buy from the mist camp vardo (aka 5k for shield candle) and not seeing charged items drop other then expedious retreat items.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: APorg on February 27, 2013, 10:46:52 PM
Anything with a spell charge is now worth a whole lot, I have an appraise based character and in three hours I made just shy of 16,000 gold from selling morninglordian tonics. It is now laughably easy to get money.

$.$
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: dutchy on February 27, 2013, 10:56:42 PM
sooooooooooooooooooooo these past couple of pages been for naugth?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Perkele on February 28, 2013, 03:25:15 AM
Now I know where some people are getting their money from..  :lol:
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 28, 2013, 04:58:59 AM
In my own experience, healing potions are so useful that I wouldn't be inclined to sell the healing tonics for 200 gp. But to prevent some people power-looting it, I'll lower the value of the tonics.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Ercvadasz on February 28, 2013, 08:22:46 AM
In my own experience, healing potions are so useful that I wouldn't be inclined to sell the healing tonics for 200 gp. But to prevent some people power-looting it, I'll lower the value of the tonics.

Actually while this is true, most folks usually use their own potion supplier to get the mentioned healing potions.
ML tonics are not that good in a fight, and it is not hard to make yourself some CLW pots.
The money you would get from selling ML tonics, you can spend easily on buying herbs.
(5 morninglordian potions sold = 1 box of herbs. 25 knuckles = 35 skeleton knuckles. Just time factor is greatly different.)

Also if i can, i would suggest the mages tower potion rewards to get their price reduced as well, and the vistani handed out potions that are made from drobita and another fungus i forgot its name.(both can be found in the scarab holes, and from both the vistani girl makes potions.)
Basicly i think all reward potions should have their price lowered.

Also one question about this:
Untill the modifications are implemented, is this now considered an exploit? Or is it allowed to be used.

//I do not use this method, but it would be good to know what the current stance on it is. Is it allowed to be used, or is it not. Since many folks do not read forum, and thus would not know about what the current stance on it is.//
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Kendaric on February 28, 2013, 08:51:20 AM

Actually while this is true, most folks usually use their own potion supplier to get the mentioned healing potions.
ML tonics are not that good in a fight, and it is not hard to make yourself some CLW pots.

CLW potions are easily made, but they are also next to useless as soon as you have a few levels under your belt. To be honest I much prefer the ML tonics, espeacially as they are comparatively easy to get and don't cost money to craft. As for most people using/having their own trusted potion supplier... that is not necessarily an option for new players or even new characters from old(er) players.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Ercvadasz on February 28, 2013, 09:05:09 AM

Actually while this is true, most folks usually use their own potion supplier to get the mentioned healing potions.
ML tonics are not that good in a fight, and it is not hard to make yourself some CLW pots.

CLW potions are easily made, but they are also next to useless as soon as you have a few levels under your belt. To be honest I much prefer the ML tonics, espeacially as they are comparatively easy to get and don't cost money to craft. As for most people using/having their own trusted potion supplier... that is not necessarily an option for new players or even new characters from old(er) players.

I know that, but morninglordian tonics are not that usefull in combat.
And from 35 woundwarts +35*10 bottle price cost, you will get much better results as from the 6 morninglordian tonics that can cover currently, the price of 35 woundwarts and its crafting cost.
Also there are sometimes a few potion sellers these days, and usually the price for CSW or CCW pots is 150-200 gold. Which is the same price like a morninglordian potions selling price.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 28, 2013, 09:49:52 AM
I discovered the issue was mainly that Rattok in the Drain was improperly set up (albeit only buying potions, but he offered five to six time our standard max modifier for merchant buying price!)
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Dread on February 28, 2013, 12:19:12 PM
Anything with a spell charge is now worth a whole lot, I have an appraise based character and in three hours I made just shy of 16,000 gold from selling morninglordian tonics. It is now laughably easy to get money.

$.$

(http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/TimmyWithDollarEyes.jpg)
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Time_Stomped on February 28, 2013, 01:44:55 PM
So that's why people suddenly have no tonics for their downed teammates and freeloaded on the knuckles at the same time.  Hmmhm.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 28, 2013, 01:54:03 PM
Anything with a spell charge is now worth a whole lot, I have an appraise based character and in three hours I made just shy of 16,000 gold from selling morninglordian tonics. It is now laughably easy to get money.

Out of curiosity, how much gold did Rattok offer you per potion?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: RigorMortis on February 28, 2013, 02:41:50 PM
I sold them at the mistcamp. It wasn't rattock, haven't been in the drain for ages. I remember him offering me over 3000 gold per firebomb when I went to him, I threw them away thinking that it was an obvious exploit to sell a stack of them for 30k. .


I made around 250 gold from each one, lows spawn crypts being exceedingly easy to get knuckles especially with the great number of skeletons it only took me a few runs to make rediculous amounts of coin.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 28, 2013, 02:45:12 PM
But the healing tonics?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 28, 2013, 03:42:03 PM
Five knuckles for a healing tonic, 250 gold each. For 16k, that's 64 tonics, equalling to 320 skeletons. You've been busy!
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Kendaric on February 28, 2013, 03:58:46 PM
Five knuckles for a healing tonic, 250 gold each. For 16k, that's 64 tonics, equalling to 320 skeletons. You've been busy!

Well, there's always the option of buying them off other players and still come out with a huge gain.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Gilad Abrams on February 28, 2013, 06:50:27 PM
Five knuckles for a healing tonic, 250 gold each. For 16k, that's 64 tonics, equalling to 320 skeletons. You've been busy!
I think it's worth noting that in the mist camp they were selling for 250 for a stack of ten not per each tonic
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 28, 2013, 06:56:03 PM
Aha, so that's 3200 skeletons. In three hours. Making it killing one skeleton in every three second for three hours. Anyone able to do that honestly deserve those 16k gold.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: -narwhal- on February 28, 2013, 08:39:42 PM
Aha, so that's 3200 skeletons. In three hours. Making it killing one skeleton in every three second for three hours. Anyone able to do that honestly deserve those 16k gold.

so let us sell the potions for the same price : P
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on March 01, 2013, 04:23:44 PM
You can go hunt minks or rats and get roughly the same amount of gold per kill - that'll allow everyone to save the potions for saving themselves and each other, while you still getting rich. If you can get one skeleton per 3 seconds for 3 hours, getting the same amount of rats should be easy. Of course it's doubtful that there's even 3200 rats down the sewers but then again, where do we have those 3200 skeletons?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Elfric on March 01, 2013, 04:26:14 PM
Where do we have those 3200 skeletons?
A Dark Lord's closet.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: RigorMortis on March 01, 2013, 04:29:13 PM
It was myself and another person collecting the skeleton knuckles, I did not need a stack of 10 to recieve 250gp per one, we went from the Outpost to the Morninglordian crypts and all other undead places in between to get the skeleton knuckles. I have an appraise of 29 with items. I know I am a high leveled character I was doing this to prove a point that the prices aren't balanced in the least. Not as some sort of attack on the system. Paying 5k for a Ankh of Ptah (One Example) or other such items is rediculous and only adds to the obscene inflation(Which is a problem, It's going up faster than the U.S Dollar or the German Mark in WWII). I doubt a person could even carry a million gold pieces unless they were microscopic.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Dread on March 01, 2013, 05:11:20 PM
Inflation's just going to happen, and it's a guarantee, unless we do what some servers do and prevent selling stuff to NPC merchants altogether and have everything be sold via PC merchants... though that's infuriating in its own unique way.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on March 01, 2013, 05:33:54 PM
It was myself and another person collecting the skeleton knuckles, I did not need a stack of 10 to recieve 250gp per one, we went from the Outpost to the Morninglordian crypts and all other undead places in between to get the skeleton knuckles. I have an appraise of 29 with items. I know I am a high leveled character I was doing this to prove a point that the prices aren't balanced in the least. Not as some sort of attack on the system. Paying 5k for a Ankh of Ptah (One Example) or other such items is rediculous and only adds to the obscene inflation(Which is a problem, It's going up faster than the U.S Dollar or the German Mark in WWII). I doubt a person could even carry a million gold pieces unless they were microscopic.

Inflation here isn't just something that risk getting into some state of motion where it attains inertia. There's no foreign currency that capital owners can move their holdings to.

The same could be said of the current U.S. Dollar inflation, which is relatively stable (http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-inflation-rates/) and nothing like the german papiermark (which I suppose some paranoiacs somewhere propose).

On our server, there's been some revisions recently that has caused some changes here and there, but it isn't a symptom of inflation but changing the standard price of specific items. If you had read my former comments on the matter, you would realise that it's just to make these items more balanced toward other equivalent items that only differed in their base item type. Given that, I honestly don't understand why you feel that an Ankh of Ptah now costing 5k is any more ridiculous than it's former price.

Then there's the present issue with morninglordian healing tonics selling for too much - again an unforeseen consequence of the latest changes, but easily fixed. It puzzles me somewhat still though that you got 250 gp for a single tonic at the mist camp trader, as that exceeds the technical limit with a considerable margin, and that's even with the prior base value still in. Is it consistent that you can sell items to merchants at prices that are nearly the same as the price you buy the items for.

Anyway, thankfully, in the grand scheme of things, these are just minor events that have no noticeable impact on overall inflation. Especially if people don't go on mad knuckle-hunts to "prove a point" about it.

It is inevitable however, that as people get more levels they'll themselves accumulate more gold and perhaps then feel a sense of emotional inflation, especially as we don't simply want to offer high levels more and more powerful items to buy at vendors. At times, it even have some inflation-like effect when there's too many high levels around power-treasure-hauling (we've had many such periods in the past), and this is where the only real danger of inflation reside on our server - but thankfully these things tend to come and go as people realise there's more satisfying things to do here. Such as taking it easy, finding other people and roleplaying.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: dutchy on March 01, 2013, 06:48:57 PM
we should take potm to the stock market, cause it's becomming that serious    -_-
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Lucadia on March 01, 2013, 06:52:31 PM
Ankah of path was previously 1.5k to buy from a vendor. You don't see something
wrong with sudden price jump to 5k+? This makes it much harders on low and
new toons. You also jack!eded the prices on scrolls by 40pct or more. Sure you don't want check the system?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Gilad Abrams on March 01, 2013, 07:21:10 PM
Seeing as how players can be rather clickish towards new players sometimes getting things for the npc vendors is the only way to obtain decent items. Making them insanely expensive creates a real hardship for low lvls and non connected pcs
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Kendaric on March 01, 2013, 07:53:07 PM
Ankah of path was previously 1.5k to buy from a vendor. You don't see something
wrong with sudden price jump to 5k+? This makes it much harders on low and
new toons. You also jack!eded the prices on scrolls by 40pct or more. Sure you don't want check the system?

Quite frankly, the scroll prices are perfectly ok I think. They discourage people from buying tons of scrolls, which is a good thing in my opinion.

Not sure what this "Ankh of Ptah" does, but where's the problem if it's hard to acquire/expensive? Getting 5k isn't that hard even for new players if they go rat/mink hunting regularly and do some bounties or gather herbs to sell.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: dutchy on March 01, 2013, 07:57:30 PM
the ankh isnt hard to find but i did not realise that we went up more then double, i mean double the price isnt a bad thing cause we can also sell it for a bit more but 1.5 to 5k thats a very high difrance in costs.


am afraid i am going to side with the people who are thinking the loot table needs a look at price wise, cause 5k is redicilous for an item such as the ankh.

..anoyone wish to buy one mihas has one for sale just 4900 gp  :lol:
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Lucadia on March 01, 2013, 08:39:49 PM
Ankah of path was previously 1.5k to buy from a vendor. You don't see something
wrong with sudden price jump to 5k+? This makes it much harders on low and
new toons. You also jack!eded the prices on scrolls by 40pct or more. Sure you don't want check the system?

Quite frankly, the scroll prices are perfectly ok I think. They discourage people from buying tons of scrolls, which is a good thing in my opinion.

Not sure what this "Ankh of Ptah" does, but where's the problem if it's hard to acquire/expensive? Getting 5k isn't that hard even for new players if they go rat/mink hunting regularly and do some bounties or gather herbs to sell.

No, this discourages those that dont have easy money making ways to not buy scrolls.
 those that already had the means can still buy mass amounts. Nothing changed other then making it harder on low levels

and since the prices of scrolls went up, so did charged items.

its been a very long time since if seen a firepipe, that would been 50 scrolls worth of potection from alignment , but snice the total cost of the item is calculated as the drop, they no longer do. sky high prices is not only affecting potion prices, but scrolls and all charged items.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: dutchy on March 01, 2013, 09:08:06 PM
this effects the rpér aswell no?

someone who simply rp's would never raise the cash as one who dungeons to begin with, now that gap widens even more.
if the two would clash the rpér would lose without a doubt cause he cannot afford the gear.

this creates to much of a gap i fear, unless the loot sold price is also adjusted to balance it out (which i doubt by the sound of it)   that means only the prices rose and the long term effects will be problematic, due to low lvls not getting anywhere and those with proper builds will as usual rule the server.  (not that thats a change ofcourse)  but i am trying to say that the  "others" have an even less chance of surviving.

soren i am asking this with a respectfull tone.

have you fully in all it's aspects thought this trough?
as i said i am hearing this and seen it in the works and i am having allot of question marks with this change, this is not some new system this is altering a system allot of people are used to that, it can have bad consequences.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Bad_Bud on March 02, 2013, 02:45:16 AM
I don't like expensive potions not because I don't want to pay the price (I never like buying potions at their old prices anyway), but because they've begun replacing more interesting and useful consumables in dungeon loot.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on March 02, 2013, 11:16:01 AM
Weren't we just a moment ago discussing that gold was too easy to accumulate?

Look, the simple reality here is just that some items (potions, torch-like items, scrolls) were factually underpriced compared to equivalent items of other types. That has been corrected and it would make no sense reverting that, it being obviously illogical.

Then, if you really feel people should be able to more easily purchase these things, we can either lower all prices on spellcasting items or make sure all people just have more gold. But that'll make those upset who are saying people already have too much gold. Not to mention the current herbalists that'll see their effort losing value.

In other words, we can't make everyone happy here. I'm sure we'll all be able to manage though, even if all changes seem daunting at first
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Kaspar on March 02, 2013, 12:04:27 PM
From a merchantmans perspective I see nothing wrong with how things are currently. I believe that scrolls/items should be expensive to give value to the similar variants that drop in the loot tables, making dungeoning/treasure hunting more exciting. The only reason I can see gold being easily attainable is through ninja looting regularly, and we can't exactly touch that in any way.

I also know a new player that obtained 60,000+ gold by selling the morninglord tonics to Mad Dok for 250g each. They were giving me the impression they did it rather quickly also.  :shock: That's 240 tonics, 1200 skeletons. Jeesh!
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Lucadia on March 02, 2013, 01:03:30 PM
Forgive me soren I don't think your really seeing the problem here. Not sure how
Many times I have to say this. Charged items in the loot tables reflect the price changes.
Items like shield candles and brooches are so high priced on the chart they either
replace a good drop or never drop.
Yet scrolls are easy enough get for any spell caster and rouge.
And there's nothing here stepping on the toes of herbalist.
Anakth of Path example has 7 charges of freedom that used to be 1.5k.
Your average herbalist is going sell freedom potions a mere 150-200 coin each.
Now costs over 5k for that item. No one is going gold sink into that vendor item
out of convienance while prices on this potion didn't change.

You had a flat out change to All items with spell caster levels.  Not just potions.
Players can't make darkness tonics
A single potion costs 700 coin
can buy it as a scroll for 330
or you can get a candle of darkness with 10 charges and only pay 700 total
Certainly not buying that potion but I guess they good to farm in port for selling for more now?

Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Kaspar on March 02, 2013, 01:26:04 PM
In my post I was referring to things -before- the prices update to potions, but not the potions themselves just the things that were inadvertently affected like the few items Lucadia has pointed out. I hope that the accidental changes could be fixed rather than being left alone.

Perhaps we can draw up a list of items that are overpriced unintentionally, and the Developers can modify their specific item values to lower the sell/buy cost?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: RedwizardD on March 02, 2013, 01:44:25 PM
Or we could revert to the pricing system the was fair before?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on March 02, 2013, 03:07:58 PM
You had a flat out change to All items with spell caster levels.

And how many times do I have to explicate that this is wrong?

I'll make one last effort and then leave this topic be:

1. The item cost modifier for spellcasting items were NOT changed.

2. The general item cost calculation for two base item types have been changed to simply match how all other items have their price calculated. One of them was potions, the other torch-like items (which the ankh falls under).

If someone can argue why potions should be much cheaper than equivalent items like the quintessence, I'd love to hear such argument presented but none of the above is directed at that (and I doubt such an argument could be composed.)

If people then feel that spellcasting items in general should be cheaper, I'm open to discussing that, but by now, it might make sense to start a second topic explicitly for that.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Lucadia on March 02, 2013, 04:01:47 PM
Quote
1. The item cost modifier for spellcasting items were NOT changed.
Okay so you didnt change a thing but two items and yet it ridiculous a 1.5k item went to 5k with that minor change
and with price calculation done to torches, that shield torch with 15 charges of shield would cost 10k or more on the loot table,
what was the point of adding a new item to replace shield brooches and then suddenly put them in the 1pct drop then?

 quintessence? Potions are already cheeper then they are. Assuming buying a single  quintessence, a cure serious wounds item at 1k
from the vendor, when you could go to a herbalist and easily buy them at 150 coin each. Just got 9 potions for the price of one item.
Should be the quintessence is cheeper.

Any of the potion like items such as the one with the phantasmal killer in the bottle, are now twice the price, after scroll prices went up by forty percent.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Kaspar on March 02, 2013, 04:13:54 PM
Quote
1. The item cost modifier for spellcasting items were NOT changed.
Okay so you didnt change a thing but two items and yet it ridiculous a 1.5k item went to 5k with that minor change
and with price calculation done to torches, that shield torch with 15 charges of shield would cost 10k or more on the loot table,
what was the point of adding a new item to replace shield brooches and then suddenly put them in the 1pct drop then?

I doubt it was done intentionally.  :P
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Bad_Bud on March 02, 2013, 08:24:56 PM
To answer the question, yes, spellcasting items should be cheaper.  Prices were shifted the wrong way with the latest changes.  We've always had unreasonably priced items such as Keoghtom's Ointment and Quintessence, Keoghtom's probably the most egregious offender.  At best these are items you might use under extremely special circumstances if you found one on the floor and needed to use it before you reached the vendor.  Not items you would ever think about purchasing for, in Keoghtom's case, around 3000 gold.  3000 gold so you can cast cure light wounds, neutralize poison, or remove disease (redundant spell when there is neutralize poison)?  This item's been around for a long time and finding one was always a disappointing fact of life.  But now every spellcasting item is at this price?  A potion of antidote is over 2000 coins.  A potion of elemental warding is over 3000 coins.  We're talking about level 3 and 4 spells.  I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would be trying to pick these up.

Quote
Aye lads, we just got back from the dungeon, got us ten thousand gold coins.  Let's buy us three bottles to fend off the cold fer an hour er two.

For comparison, an amulet of cold resistance can be purchased from an NPC vendor around 5000 gold.  A potion that absorbs 40 elemental damage around 3000.  That's 40 points of damage versus an infinite amount of damage.  I couldn't say precisely at what ratio the amulet is more valuable, but I'd place it around at least a full stack of ten elemental warding potions.  If a potion of elemental warding was 500 coins I could fathom purchasing it.  I probably wouldn't purchase it, but I at least wouldn't soil my pants every time I saw one for sale.



In summary, there were always spellcasting items that cost far too much.  Previously, these were seen as disappointing "vendor trash" type items (Keoghtom's).  Items that only exist to be sold for gold, like fine paintings.  The latest change has made every spellcasting item look like this in loot.  And honestly I don't care, I'm just stating how I feel when I see prices like this.  The end result is the amount I shake my head and roll my eyes when I pick the lock on a treasure chest or open a vendor window.  But if you're asking questions like "what makes sense" in prices, I say current prices don't make sense.  Prices like that of Keoghtom's (and now potions) are something people have to waste their suspension of disbelief on.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: dutchy on March 02, 2013, 09:35:48 PM
soren i have a hard time explaining this but il try.

lets say you make money X amount a month, now you can cover the 1.5k and if lucky a lil more a month  but now suddenly you have the same amount of cash but you have to cover 5k a month.

see the problem? you got more month then money, thats basicly what this update did it was not minor money wise it was a huge change money wise.

i understand that the ankh falls under a flag item and all that, no argument there.   but honestly for what these items do compared to their costs the reward vs costs is not fair at all.

so please take a look at either the prices or what these items do, and find a middle a ground.

also i agree with vasille that a list of these batshit crazy items  ;) should be placed in order to "fix" them
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: airengale on March 03, 2013, 02:57:49 AM

Quote
Aye lads, we just got back from the dungeon, got us ten thousand gold coins.  Let's buy us three bottles to fend off the cold fer an hour er two.

For comparison, an amulet of cold resistance can be purchased from an NPC vendor around 5000 gold.  A potion that absorbs 40 elemental damage around 3000.  That's 40 points of damage versus an infinite amount of damage.  I couldn't say precisely at what ratio the amulet is more valuable, but I'd place it around at least a full stack of ten elemental warding potions.  If a potion of elemental warding was 500 coins I could fathom purchasing it.  I probably wouldn't purchase it, but I at least wouldn't soil my pants every time I saw one for sale.



What I believe this encourages, and the intention are with these changes was to encourage a player economy. So that someone making elemental warding wouldn't set the potion at 3000. They'd set it to something more reasonable like 500 or less. I personally would have never bought from the vendor in the first place when I could have bought from a player the same item, because the player would of course, sell it for cheaper.

This change, I see, just boosts up the value of player made items, like potions.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Bad_Bud on March 03, 2013, 07:51:31 AM

Quote
Aye lads, we just got back from the dungeon, got us ten thousand gold coins.  Let's buy us three bottles to fend off the cold fer an hour er two.

For comparison, an amulet of cold resistance can be purchased from an NPC vendor around 5000 gold.  A potion that absorbs 40 elemental damage around 3000.  That's 40 points of damage versus an infinite amount of damage.  I couldn't say precisely at what ratio the amulet is more valuable, but I'd place it around at least a full stack of ten elemental warding potions.  If a potion of elemental warding was 500 coins I could fathom purchasing it.  I probably wouldn't purchase it, but I at least wouldn't soil my pants every time I saw one for sale.



What I believe this encourages, and the intention are with these changes was to encourage a player economy. So that someone making elemental warding wouldn't set the potion at 3000. They'd set it to something more reasonable like 500 or less. I personally would have never bought from the vendor in the first place when I could have bought from a player the same item, because the player would of course, sell it for cheaper.

This change, I see, just boosts up the value of player made items, like potions.

They're expensive to an extent they may as well not even exist.  Removal has the same effect on the player economy.

Prices in the crafted potion economy have nothing to do with vendor prices.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: airengale on March 03, 2013, 08:13:39 AM
Because even if they don't sell it to you, potions like Morninglord Tonics that can be sold to the merchant would still end up in his inventory. What occurred with the increase in price of buying the tonic was also an increase to the value price from selling the tonic.

At least that's my understanding. So if you did find an Elemental Warding in the loot table, you'd be selling to the merchant with an increased value now. Then you can buy it back with the increased price. This was also the case with other items, now it's just being applied to Potions and Flag items.

At least that's what I'm understanding from looking at the change.

Well, look at barkskin with that latest statement. Barkskin can be made by the player and sold by the vender. I'll take a look at it. That's also true with Elemental Warding: Made by the player, and can be found by other players and sold to a merchant who can then sell it back.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Bad_Bud on March 03, 2013, 08:30:09 AM
There are places that flat out sell the multi-thousand coin potions as stock items.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: airengale on March 03, 2013, 08:32:09 AM
You said earlier that taking out the item from the merchant does the same for the player economy as increasing the price considerably to where no one wants to buy it. I think that's a fine example to what happened to Barkskin, and their intention. Now they made it much easier to make barkskin potions, and increased the price at the vender so now you rely on the player economy near completely.

So why keep the merchant selling barkskin is the question? Well then I say why not keep it? If I can't find a player making those potions, and I can't bother myself to learn herbalism, and I really valued that barkskin potion then I'd rather have it available to me at the merchant NPC than not.

In other words, they're probably trying not to force you to delve into their crafting system if you don't want to, but they're definitely making it more desirable.

Btw, with terrible appraise, I can now buy barkskin at 396gp each. If I was rich I'd see myself buying that If I couldn't be bothered to look to the players around me, but I'm not so I'm going to be looking to an herbalist PC.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Aahz on March 03, 2013, 09:29:50 AM
Btw, with terrible appraise, I can now buy barkskin at 396gp each. If I was rich I'd see myself buying that If I couldn't be bothered to look to the players around me, but I'm not so I'm going to be looking to an herbalist PC.

And the players will all be selling them for 300 to 320 each.... because why wouldn't they? Basing what you charge as a merchant on what the vendors sell them for is pretty standard. You just need a price less than what it would cost a player from a vendor and then get as much as you can get away with. If the item is not available from a vendor then the sky is the limit.... Unless you are competing with another player selling the same thing. However the key to competing with another player is availability. If someone is selling something cheaper than you are but no one can find them, its not really bothering you then is it? The complaint I hear over and over again is that some people have a hard enough time finding ANYONE selling what they are looking for, let alone one with the best prices.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: airengale on March 03, 2013, 09:50:41 AM
And the players will all be selling them for 300 to 320 each.... because why wouldn't they? Unless you are competing with another player selling the same thing.

However the key to competing with another player is availability. If someone is selling something cheaper than you are but no one can find them, its not really bothering you then is it?
The key is met. The herbalist craft is available to all people. It'd probably be a different argument for flag items, but I haven't seen it be brought up.


The complaint I hear over and over again is that some people have a hard enough time finding ANYONE selling what they are looking for, let alone one with the best prices.

That's a shame for them. I know several people who are master herbalists. Moments ago I just recalled someone in game mentioning how herbalism isn't really a worth while buisness. This change will certainly help that out, because now wouldn't there be people searching for a barkskin vender?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Avatar6666 on March 03, 2013, 11:17:18 AM
Yes this has hurt the merchant business. It hurts because My potions sell for r1GP a piece as a merchant and the merchants sell for 300-400 gold apiece. I think the old way was a little better. its hurting the new player because it is hard to charge 50 gold pieces for something to a level 2 when they can go find that potion in a cysts and make 10 times what they bought for it.
 So why buy or do herbalism anymore....Sad but true.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: HellsPanda on March 03, 2013, 11:26:54 AM
That doesn't compute Avatar
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on March 03, 2013, 12:12:05 PM
I'm glad some people actually do get what I'm saying here and what the nature of the latest changes have been. I'm very open to debating whether the general cost of spell casting items should be lower, but am I the only one thinking it would be better if we opened a new forum thread with this topic explicitly?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Kaspar on March 03, 2013, 12:18:25 PM
but am I the only one thinking it would be better if we opened a new forum thread with this topic explicitly?

 :My_Fifth_Emoticon_by_Kat_Love
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Aahz on March 03, 2013, 01:33:35 PM
That's a shame for them. I know several people who are master herbalists. Moments ago I just recalled someone in game mentioning how herbalism isn't really a worth while buisness. This change will certainly help that out, because now wouldn't there be people searching for a barkskin vender?

I've seen a lot more herbalists who just make potions for themselves and their friends than ones who try and sell them. Mostly I believe because they got frustrated on not being able to find a PC merchant and/or do not want to have to be dependent on them. 
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: airengale on March 03, 2013, 01:47:32 PM
That's probably true. People who are herbalist aren't obligated to sell their potions.

What other way do you propose to stimulate this player economy concerning potions? I still think this change helps, though.


To be clear, this argument above is arguing the point of why changing the prices in the first place. While a new argument that Soren is looking at is whether or not the price should be adjusted lower for general spell casting items.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: dutchy on March 03, 2013, 05:17:21 PM
I'm glad some people actually do get what I'm saying here and what the nature of the latest changes have been. I'm very open to debating whether the general cost of spell casting items should be lower, but am I the only one thinking it would be better if we opened a new forum thread with this topic explicitly?

meh we are already at it here for a few pages so it doesnt seem needed.

i get that you upped the prices and i get that potions should not be easy to get as we can use the arguments low magic setting argument aswell as the promoting player trade.

but if you charge allot at a npc vendor it is only a matter of time that the players will charge more for their potions cause they can, aslong they stay under the npc price people will always buy from a pc.
but this can have the effect allot gets more expensive player trade wise cause those pc merchants wish to buy things and need more money to buy it from a npc, and so the prices rise all around, all long term scenario ofcourse.

am glad you are still open for the discussion on wheter or not there should be some sort of compremise somewhere.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: -narwhal- on March 04, 2013, 09:13:26 AM
Traps... i really think atleast minor traps should be much more cheaper.. because a low lvl rogue just cannot afford them.. or am i wrong ?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Avatar6666 on March 04, 2013, 10:16:13 AM
My 13th level rogue can not afford them, Since when can you not recover traps from dungeons....???
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Ercvadasz on March 04, 2013, 10:31:40 AM
My 13th level rogue can not afford them, Since when can you not recover traps from dungeons....???

I think you can still recover traps, about 2 months or so ago, i have bought recovered traps from a player, and i never had problems to buy strong traps.
You just have to find the right NPC who sells them.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: HellsPanda on March 04, 2013, 10:32:53 AM
You can also craft them
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on March 04, 2013, 12:30:54 PM
I recovered a trap a couple of days ago. :P
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: FullMoon on March 04, 2013, 12:32:42 PM
Traps... i really think atleast minor traps should be much more cheaper.. because a low lvl rogue just cannot afford them.. or am i wrong ?

I found minor spike traps affordable.

To me this potion issue is being overblown . I see why they want to make people depend on other players for trade. The only thing I found inconvenient is Lore potion prices because getting things identified usually costs more than the item is worth. To my knowledge players can't make Lore potions can they ?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on March 04, 2013, 12:40:28 PM
Traps... i really think atleast minor traps should be much more cheaper.. because a low lvl rogue just cannot afford them.. or am i wrong ?

I found minor spike traps affordable.

To me this potion issue is being overblown . I see why they want to make people depend on other players for trade. The only thing I found inconvenient is Lore potion prices because getting things identified usually costs more than the item is worth. To my knowledge players can't make Lore potions can they ?

This is why Bruhm keeps every Book of Thoth he finds. <_<
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: HellsPanda on March 04, 2013, 12:41:15 PM
Make friends with a lore char.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Dread on March 04, 2013, 12:49:19 PM
Bards are your friends.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: FullMoon on March 04, 2013, 04:10:00 PM
Make friends with a lore char.

No doubt you mean well but obviously you do not always have access to certain characters/types 24/7. This is only an inconvenience when you have heavy items and don't want to be encumbered at that moment. I know when I first came here my friends and I at the time ended up throwing away unknown items because we couldn't find anyone to identify them and we lost money on the cost to identify vs sale price to npc merchant.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on March 04, 2013, 04:28:23 PM
http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=32247.0
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Kaspar on March 04, 2013, 05:12:36 PM
Traps... i really think atleast minor traps should be much more cheaper.. because a low lvl rogue just cannot afford them.. or am i wrong ?

I found minor spike traps affordable.

To me this potion issue is being overblown . I see why they want to make people depend on other players for trade. The only thing I found inconvenient is Lore potion prices because getting things identified usually costs more than the item is worth. To my knowledge players can't make Lore potions can they ?

This is why Bruhm keeps every Book of Thoth he finds. <_<

Or you can invest into two +5 lore rings which I was able to attain at level 5. ^.^
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on March 04, 2013, 10:31:19 PM
Make friends with a lore char.

No doubt you mean well but obviously you do not always have access to certain characters/types 24/7. This is only an inconvenience when you have heavy items and don't want to be encumbered at that moment. I know when I first came here my friends and I at the time ended up throwing away unknown items because we couldn't find anyone to identify them and we lost money on the cost to identify vs sale price to npc merchant.

Honestly it boggles me how people dont invest least a few points for lore i mean personally? i have NO characters that do not have a 12/14 int at least and none without at least 10 pts in lore LOL though as frenar says below me get the +5 lore rings and mostly that'll be fine for most things i find having ti great for rp in dm events for studying crap
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: blur927 on March 10, 2013, 01:36:03 PM
Food rations are around 50 gold a piece now, based on appraise. It seems like this is the only food item that has had it's price raised.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Ecnarrot on March 10, 2013, 07:10:46 PM
Was flint and steel always 80gp?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on March 11, 2013, 05:59:40 AM
Nah, there was a bug (unforeseen side effect) with the new pricing that made some mundane items cost way too much. Will fix it asap, thanks for the heads up, all.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Lucadia on March 11, 2013, 02:02:51 PM
This will only effect mundane items and not charged use items only?
 The pricing for spell casting items seems even higher, not lower for what was once common items,unless that was the intention to make them drop rarer or be worth more then most +1 weapons, so the weapons dont drop at much?
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on March 11, 2013, 03:03:49 PM
If you want us to address your concerns, please take your time to formulate yourself clearly, thanks.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Lucadia on March 11, 2013, 04:07:46 PM
the first question is a clear one. So is the second. I dont understand why items have not only gone up higher with the second change, but have increased another..twenty percent a 3rd time.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: RigorMortis on March 11, 2013, 04:12:40 PM
the first question is a clear one. So is the second. I dont understand why items have not only gone up higher with the second change, but have increased another..twenty percent a 3rd time.

Dude, seriously. Piss off of soren, he's a good person who has answered every single one of your mean spirited questions. I for one am fed up with your complaining on every new system that comes up. Sit on your hands and think before you speak, you are looking like a jerk that is stomping on all the hard work he does. Cut. It. Out.

The Server is a work in progress, he is testing things. Be honored that you are a guinea pig helping make the server better for players who join later down the line.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Avatar6666 on March 11, 2013, 04:23:09 PM
the first question is a clear one. So is the second. I dont understand why items have not only gone up higher with the second change, but have increased another..twenty percent a 3rd time.

Dude, seriously. Piss off of soren, he's a good person who has answered every single one of your mean spirited questions. I for one am fed up with your complaining on every new system that comes up. Sit on your hands and think before you speak, you are looking like a jerk that is stomping on all the hard work he does. Cut. It. Out.

The Server is a work in progress, he is testing things. Be honored that you are a genui pig helping make the server better for players who join later down the line.

3+ years is no longer a work in progress and He did answer the question, sorry but I am with Luca here. Your asking for something he gave and you can not see it as a head DM? Give me a breatk....Look at the prices you can see it as well as we can.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: Dread on March 11, 2013, 04:50:27 PM
Does every one of the threads on the Suggestions and Feedback forums have to end this way? Mod sass would generally get you banned on most forums, I'm rather surprised Søren tolerates it. Honestly, though, if you haven't got anything productive to say... my suggestion to you is:

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/164/127/you%20are%20a%20cat%20so%20stop%20posting.gif)

Besides, the man's noticed the change, he's going to fix it right away, there's no need for us to comment further on the issue unless it persists somehow.
Title: Re: sky high prices...
Post by: APorg on March 11, 2013, 06:00:22 PM
Will lock this thread... Let's keep things positive and constructive.