Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist

Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: BahamutZ3RO on December 23, 2012, 06:08:06 PM

Title: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on December 23, 2012, 06:08:06 PM
The new area's spawns might be a little... out of control. I didn't take a screenshot 'cause I was busy doin' the old Duergar dive to safety, but I think there were something between 30-50 skeletal warriors down there at once.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Zhernebog on December 23, 2012, 06:25:46 PM
Off topic but i am so sorry about you duergar diving onto those two sword spiders to save me haha
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on December 23, 2012, 06:28:08 PM
Off topic but i am so sorry about you duergar diving onto those two sword spiders to save me haha

Wrong Duergar I think. <_< I haven't Duergar-dived into anything for anyone, except for that one time with Straven. Never again. >:[
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Zhernebog on December 23, 2012, 06:36:21 PM
Damn theres more than one? Oh well you beard-folk all look the same. Close enough. :b
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Silverfox on December 23, 2012, 07:37:37 PM
2 Duergar, 4 Drow, 1 Half-Drow.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Time_Stomped on December 24, 2012, 05:02:53 AM
I thought it was meant to be out of control, it's an epic battle finale.

The loot value and amount needs to be increased a little bit though.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on December 24, 2012, 07:24:38 AM
Yeah, it's intended to feel like the entire place is coming alive. 30-50 sounds like a bit much though, sure it was that many?

Also, I'll up the loot a bit, but how do you feel about the updates in general? Better/more exciting or just more frustrating?
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Misted_Horror on December 24, 2012, 07:41:28 AM
It was more exciting, but I can vouch, at least 30 NPCs, ranging from warriors to knights, even including huecuva.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Feronius on December 24, 2012, 07:46:47 AM
So.. literally half the server (not even exagerating) is constantly swarming one spot, the Morninglord church and crypts below.
And the response is to encourage it by giving them blessings to make it easier to farm and increase the rewards?

Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me, whatsoever.
I thought these kind of weeks would be the perfect chance to finally promote more widespread low level RP -away- from that one spot.



I think I'll simply stop bothering to even discuss this or NCW any further, guess I'll have to roll a dungeoning adventurer and jump the bandwagon.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Ercvadasz on December 24, 2012, 02:33:44 PM
So.. literally half the server (not even exagerating) is constantly swarming one spot, the Morninglord church and crypts below.
And the response is to encourage it by giving them blessings to make it easier to farm and increase the rewards?

Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me, whatsoever.


+1
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Zhernebog on December 24, 2012, 03:27:37 PM
Throwing my two cents in but if my ncw dude isnt about to be overwhelmed, it's tedious and boring.
I love the tweaked final level of the ml crypts, my only complaint would be for more varied enemies at the highest tier of spawn. Having that one uber enemy in a crowd changes the dynamic from hack and slash to intrigue, positioning, and preparation. Leading to a much more rewarding experience, and subsequently more to discuss after the fact.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on December 24, 2012, 08:33:50 PM
Adding the divining pool to the Morninglord church was not about helping people clear that place, but actually to allow low levels explore a much wider range of areas (like the monastery in the southern forests or the sullen woods) that otherwise is of limits to non-casters.

That is all somewhat off topic though. I appreciate the feedback on the changes and will tweak it accordingly. One aspect worth noting though is that the spawning depends on how fast you move in, so not running for the things in the final, large room saves you from having it all coming at you at once. I'll emphasise that a bit more too.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Honoun on December 26, 2012, 12:34:56 AM
I personally applaud the Divining Pool that was implimented, having now played a none caster or two I can understand the frustration that such classes have in.. Oh I don't know, being able to damage anything on the server. Sorry Minks and Rats don't count :P So yeah, hope the divning pool stays ;)
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Major Tom on December 26, 2012, 02:47:26 AM
Adding the divining pool to the Morninglord church was not about helping people clear that place, but actually to allow low levels explore a much wider range of areas (like the monastery in the southern forests or the sullen woods) that otherwise is of limits to non-casters.

That is all somewhat off topic though. I appreciate the feedback on the changes and will tweak it accordingly. One aspect worth noting though is that the spawning depends on how fast you move in, so not running for the things in the final, large room saves you from having it all coming at you at once. I'll emphasise that a bit more too.

Personally, what I'd of done was to make the creatures less rape in terms of power. That's one way to let people explore. Also means high levels would fan out more - heck, one reason I never leave Vallaki is 'cause of the sentiment of 'if the low level stuff murders me this easily, I'm boned elsewhere'. And sure enough, first day of NCW, I go to Dementileu, and fighting one Bully and two Thugs takes me down to half health.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Ercvadasz on December 26, 2012, 04:21:44 PM
I personally applaud the Divining Pool that was implimented, having now played a none caster or two I can understand the frustration that such classes have in.. Oh I don't know, being able to damage anything on the server. Sorry Minks and Rats don't count :P So yeah, hope the divning pool stays ;)

Actually i do not like the divining pool idea.
RP-wise would have been a better solution  hand out a number of holy vials for the NCW morninglordians, so they could offer them to those that go down, basicly the effect is the same like with the divineing pool, just there is RP in obtaining them:)
Also if no char is online, a DM can posesses Liz or other Ml-ers to hand out such vials as well:)
It is just my idea, i find this would have been a bit more helping, then having a permanent boost...:)
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Feronius on December 26, 2012, 05:13:53 PM
I'm not opposed to the divining pool itself, actually. (Although it's kind of odd how even the most evil cultist PCs will end up using it frequently atm.)

But I would've much rather seen something like it placed elsewhere, as everyone was already crowding that one zone as it was.
And I also think simply adjusting the difficulty would've been a much more logical and permanent solution, although perhaps this was an easier / faster temporary fix.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Time_Stomped on December 26, 2012, 06:11:46 PM
Actually i do not like the divining pool idea.
RP-wise would have been a better solution  hand out a number of holy vials for the NCW morninglordians, so they could offer them to those that go down, basicly the effect is the same like with the divineing pool, just there is RP in obtaining them:)
Also if no char is online, a DM can posesses Liz or other Ml-ers to hand out such vials as well:)
It is just my idea, i find this would have been a bit more helping, then having a permanent boost...:)

A better idea is a profession that only pays you in holy water and vials so even laypersons and regular undead hunters can have them instead of obtaining gold.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: BalorVale on December 26, 2012, 06:49:50 PM
Perhaps it would be very wise to implement it at the slums church and make it a solid enchantment bonus to fight were-creatures as well as undead. I do disagree at it's implementation because in my eyes it promotes more soloers that they do not need to find a buddy and enhance the group experience.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Honoun on December 26, 2012, 08:09:17 PM
The divining pool is NOT a permament boost, it only lasts for one game day, about an hour in RL. lets not confuse peeps here ;) More over its just a +1 and with the spawn down there at the moment soloing the crypts, well have you seen the amount of dead chars in the temple lately? Its obviously not that easy.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: herkles on December 26, 2012, 08:31:42 PM
I think it is temporary for NCE could be wrong though.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Major Tom on December 26, 2012, 10:50:26 PM
I still don't get the notion of how giving people MORE firepower to deal with grossly overpowered odds is the solution to the problem, and the outright dismissal of the implication that maybe, just maybe, people should focus less on 'how good can I kill stuff' in campaign designed by its nature to punish that kind of mentality in the first place, and subsequently that the mobs would thus be reduced from their overpowered status in turn, thus negating the requirement for aforementioned firepower.

This is like saying the optimal solution to a Call of Cthulhu campaign is to give everyone rocket launchers and orbital nuke remotes because players would prefer to play action hack-slash gameplay in a setting designed to be investigative-roleplay, rather than, say, just play a setting that's designed around action hack-slash and rocket launchers.

And before anyone criticizes this as accusing people of 'doing it wrong'.. yes, I am accusing certain people of 'doing it wrong'. That does not, however, mean, that they cannot be shown how to do it right, if simply by setting them aside and explaining it to them. You don't bring the Chance cards from Monopoly to a Magic the Gathering session, expecting everything to be amended and moved around just because somehow you decided it was totally relevant to the game design to play 'Get out of Jail Free' against a Phyrexian Negator, do you? No, you sit the player aside and tell them 'this is how we play Magic'. So then why do you justify bringing gaming ideals from an action-based setting like, I dunno, Warhammer, let's say, to the clearly more cerebral Ravenloft one. Why Warhammer? Well, because where else will you find a better example of a racism-and-superstition driven meatgrinder RPG setting than that?

And just 'cause I know it's gonna come up, yes, combat is a part of just about every tabletop RPG, and cRPG. Nobody denies this. However, there's such a thing as priorities and focus. See: The Tomb of Horrors (http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Horrors). This is something clearly not designed for the hack-and-slash focused gamer of DnD. It even friggin' says so in the campaign book. And this was a campaign designed by friggin' Gygax, whose campaigns were legendary for murdering the crap out of ill-prepared players, even when action-based.

I just don't get why everyone is fixated on getting more and more power and more and more action-oriented traits, gear, and facets in a setting designed to function without any of that stuff, then justifying it with a handwavey 'it's leveling the playing field', when it was clearly the players who borked the playing field in the first place by refusing to adhere to the setting. It'd be like someone shoving a Jedi into a LOTR campaign, and rather than booting the player, you remodel the entire campaign to make Jedi canon. And now we have Sauron as a Force ghost, Force Choking the shit out of everyone whilst wielding a One Ring-styled lightsaber. Which is what it feels like we're heading towards on a steady basis.

Heck, between the way that the server now feels like a High Magic hack-and-slash RP server (as opposed to the Ravenloft setting being Low Magic, roleplay/intelligence RP), and with people flinging spells left and right without anyone saying a thing about it, the setting is already so compromised that I might as well roll up a character who's from the 21st Century who fell through a gap in time, and then went through the mists. It's about as acceptable as everything else is thusfar.

EDIT: Bleh.. I apologize, since I'm grumping, but every time I see the justification for raising the magic rank and power on the server even more, yet again, it just grates my nerves like sandpaper. I stand by my point, regardless, grump-induced as it may be, because I do feel there are valid points in what I say.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Crimson Shuriken on December 26, 2012, 11:49:30 PM
All I can say after reading loads of your posts, is that it is your opinion Tom. You are entitled to it but it is just one opinion and I would not deem it the "right" one any more than I would say the most action oriented players here are "right".  PotM is sold very short by you and others who state such derision for the action oriented players. On this server, the vast majority of what occurs is from players and their initiatives.  There is a dwarven trial going on in-game as we speak that is completely player driven and includes 15 or so characters. Those same characters have been in dungeons "actioning" it up earlier in the week. Are they ruining the setting, lifting it up, or just suiting their own tastes? Who can say, its all subjective and I would rather we have the freedom and trust of roleplay and wherever we might want it to go then be told that "Ravenloft is not supposed to be about mechanics blah blah"  because frankly that is not even true. I am a good horror dungeon master in real life and people have told me they love my games. Guess what? In my Ravenloft games, its a lot more akin to the latter half of "Night of the Walking Dead" module or I6 inside the castle than it is the "discouragement of action elements" stuff you seem to have latched onto. You might hate my games, or just be indifferent but its Ravenloft and its horror and the rest is all subjective and whims. All of the tricks of horror roleplay are in the module and can be used by any player. Simple things like having your character look up as they pass Tser Falls bridge and make note of the ramparts of castle ravenloft and shuddering can feed the feel of Ravenloft.  Some will incorporate more or less of that to suit their tastes,  handholding that frankly is impossible on a server hosting 70 players or more a day.  The game happens organically, it grows into unforseen directions and the NCW has been a microchasm of that.  Been some action, which has built relationships and alliances and enemies and lead to some pvp and some playergroups and the cast of characters is a unique one to this one week and even within the span of 5 days things have progressed far. The game happens for those who initiate it, involve their self, roleplay their own character and react or not react as they see fit through their eyes of their role. Stop over complicating and naysaying all day and try to achieve your a game to suit own liking in-game my role-play brother. When I made my elf for this event I could not possibly of dreamed he would have helped slain a wight or befriend a group of halflings or dwarves or ever even step foot in Dvergeheim for that matter. It just happened and that is the magic of roleplay to me. Other players have more to do with your success of a character than you do your self. Its a group effort to tell a tale.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Major Tom on December 27, 2012, 12:22:42 AM
I could say a number of things, debate points, perspectives, quote books, commentaries and second opinions, drop facts and more.. but all I'm gonna do is just shrug and give up. I resign from the thread, and leave its posters to their views and methods, with all due and deserved respects.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on December 27, 2012, 10:07:23 AM
While I can sympathise with those ideals of what a DnD experience at it's core might be, we have to be pragmatists as well.

First of all, it's a matter of keeping things challenging enough to require careful preparation, while still not making it so circumstantial that people don't even try. Latter was the case with places like the Monastery and the Sullen Woods, unless you were a cleric or mage - and the end result being that places like the catacombs being overcrowded. Thus the divining pool addition. Since it only last for one I.G. day, it requires you to visit the temple before each venturing out. In my mind, that is requiring preparation.

Second, there are vast difference between designing a PnP dungeon and one for a PW as ours. Our dungeons have to be designed so that the challenge can endure being revisited at later and still be equally interesting. The classic pre-scripted puzzles won't work quite as well here. It can be overcome, but as I've mentioned in another topic, it is time consuming.

But also, finally and as Crimson suggests, it is subjective. Only if we all admit that can we engage in constructive dialogue. I've too often witnessed people so convinced by the brilliance of their design ideas that they loose sight of how frustrating they are to the players or how little they actually work for creating an enduringly interesting experience.

Spoken differently, it's very easy to have opinions about what's wrong and what would be better, but it's much less simple to make something that actually works. The 99% empty NWN servers is an attestation to this aspect. We should all have some humility toward that. It's not as forward as you might think.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: The Prophet of Misinformation on December 27, 2012, 10:48:23 AM
Quote
Second, there are vast difference between designing a PnP dungeon and one for a PW as ours. Our dungeons have to be designed so that the challenge can endure being revisited at later and still be equally interesting. The classic pre-scripted puzzles won't work quite as well here. It can be overcome, but as I've mentioned in another topic, it is time consuming.

I scrapped an entire dungeon in Sithicus because the players reported that there was not sufficient variability. Balancing high-level encounters and mutability is inconceivably difficult in NWN.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on December 27, 2012, 01:26:43 PM
But also, finally and as Crimson suggests, it is subjective. Only if we all admit that can we engage in constructive dialogue. I've too often witnessed people so convinced by the brilliance of their design ideas that they loose sight of how frustrating they are to the players or how little they actually work for creating an enduringly interesting experience.

Spoken differently, it's very easy to have opinions about what's wrong and what would be better, but it's much less simple to make something that actually works. The 99% empty NWN servers is an attestation to this aspect. We should all have some humility toward that. It's not as forward as you might think.

As someone who was around for Cookie's reign on Anphillia, I agree completely. You start changing things willy-nilly to try and make everyone happy and in the end nobody is going to be.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Feronius on December 27, 2012, 03:35:19 PM
I don't think there's a bottom to this discussion.
In the end, what the devteam wants, goes. Although I personally still don't get why there's such high level challenges in the very first dungeon you meet.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: dutchy on December 27, 2012, 03:45:34 PM
Deeper you go harder it gets mpc can hunt there below without going trough the ml temple  they can haunt things kill things etc.  If anything you could see it as a place for other then low lvls
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on December 27, 2012, 04:24:08 PM
Deeper you go harder it gets mpc can hunt there below without going trough the ml temple  they can haunt things kill things etc.  If anything you could see it as a place for other then low lvls

Fair point but MPCs can set up camp just about anywhere. They only pick the Crypts because of convenience and the number of people that pass through (I assume).
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Ercvadasz on December 27, 2012, 05:45:23 PM
Well and if an AMPC would have set up two electric traps (average) and slaughter everyone with them, or cast grease while folks were fighting the hordes of undead, they would feel griefed, because they could not farm, they lost their items and gold. Sorry to say this but for some this would be the case.
Because it gets ridiculuous that guy divine pools, goes down gets hurt runs back, gets healed and infinite loop...Also works with large number of folks.
Not to mention it breaks immersion, negates fear. Even worse is when someone gets raised and HEADS DOWN IMMIDEATLY TO NOT be left out from the XP GAIN!
Because sorry to say this and the loot is what drives most folks down there.

I am sorry as well, to sound a bit harsh and grumpy, but lately i seen so many things that break the setting atmosphere and immersion...that it upsets me a bit.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Amon-Si on December 27, 2012, 05:51:54 PM
In two days there will be something more to fear in those crypts. You have been warned.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Feronius on December 27, 2012, 06:28:59 PM
In two days there will be something more to fear in those crypts. You have been warned.

Yes, because people didn't have any intrigueing reasons to go down there yet.
Do reward them with yet another potential for an event or such, which might not even be appreciated fully, depending on the group you bump into.

I'd say promote a different area instead for a change, if you can. I know it can be tough to find RP (especially if we are talking about MPCs), but it can also be worthwhile to look elsewhere.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Amon-Si on December 27, 2012, 06:37:34 PM
In two days there will be something more to fear in those crypts. You have been warned.

Yes, because people didn't have any intrigueing reasons to go down there yet.
Do reward them with yet another potential for an event or such, which might not even be appreciated fully, depending on the group you bump into.

I'd say promote a different area instead for a change, if you can. I know it can be tough to find RP (especially if we are talking about MPCs), but it can also be worthwhile to look elsewhere.

For those who want to RP, I promise a creepy, rewarding experience, for those who don't... well... good luck! :)
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Blight on December 27, 2012, 06:58:49 PM
Well and if an AMPC would have set up two electric traps (average) and slaughter everyone with them, or cast grease while folks were fighting the hordes of undead, they would feel griefed, because they could not farm, they lost their items and gold. Sorry to say this but for some this would be the case.
Because it gets ridiculuous that guy divine pools, goes down gets hurt runs back, gets healed and infinite loop...Also works with large number of folks.
Not to mention it breaks immersion, negates fear. Even worse is when someone gets raised and HEADS DOWN IMMIDEATLY TO NOT be left out from the XP GAIN!
Because sorry to say this and the loot is what drives most folks down there.

I am sorry as well, to sound a bit harsh and grumpy, but lately i seen so many things that break the setting atmosphere and immersion...that it upsets me a bit.

It would be possible for the Devs to script an "xp-timer" after death. Thus, a player who gets raised by anything but ressurection would be unable to collect xp until they are able to rest. Perhaps that would be a reasonable middle ground?
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Ovidiu_Lacusta on December 27, 2012, 07:01:32 PM
I think monster AI should always gun for someone marked by raise sickeness.  "Here, pick me, pick me!"

It's begging to die again, after all.  Penalizing XP or timers aren't as horrific as being first choice for getting killed again.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on December 27, 2012, 07:18:13 PM
What is this topic even about at this point?

It occurs to me that we are once again at the same talk about how all the other guys are doing it wrong, right?
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: dutchy on December 27, 2012, 07:26:31 PM
What is this topic even about at this point?

It occurs to me that we are once again at the same talk about how all the other guys are doing it wrong, right?

you did it wrong yes YOU got us to play potm and ncw   i told you from the first ncw i dont like it  :mrgreen:   yet your team persisted and created and altered areas.

not our faulth youre staff keeps changing things and balances stuff out  people want it difrantly thus the staff is doing it wrong not us...no not the gratefull, well spoken, adult thinking playerbase.

*grabs some rotten tomatoes* 

i can keep this up all night and day  *has a truck load of them and has ordered some gas aswell*   

*done trolling*

poeple see an area dislike it or disagree with it but forget the other areas and factors such as factions,mpcs, difrant style of players are taken into acount with it all.

the bigger picture is often missed.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Honoun on December 27, 2012, 09:54:49 PM
Are there a lot of players doing it wrong? Probably. And very few doing it right? Chances are thats true as well. Certainly I try to do the right thing but considering my personality, of which it tends to make its way into my chars, I am the one playing them after all, I do find it hard to adhere to a gothic horror setting. I'm just too bubbly happy for it to be honest. But I do try, was accused the other day by another player and they know who they are ;) that all my Chars are cute, (it was in jest I assume though). :mrgreen:

I've actually got no issue if there are players who farm the crypts all the time, I rarely go down there myself so power to them. My main beef was the uber powerlevel of the critters in there that my chars couldn't even harm this NCW... But thats been addressed. In any case I'd rather find glorious adventure and uber RP else where any day of the week. However, I tend to find both those start in and around the outskirts more often than not. Thus thats where you'll find me most of the time.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Feronius on December 27, 2012, 10:23:34 PM
What is this topic even about at this point?

It occurs to me that we are once again at the same talk about how all the other guys are doing it wrong, right?

Someone should really get to the bottom of this. (The thread's title? Get it? Ha ha)


Spoiler: show
In all seriousness, I believe the most voiced comment is that the server actually points you towards farming the hell out of the Morninglord temple in every way possible.
I don't think it really is about the blame being put on the players themselves (well, maybe a little in some of the comments.)

This is my perspective though, but the main complaint seems to primarily be that the reward / risk ratio of the Morninglord crypts isn't scaled in an even way compared to the other dungeons or the ultimately low level area it's placed in,  it's not what you'd expect of the first dungeon you come across in-game? No traveling time, healer nearby, additional rewards in the form of easily grindable healing tonics and immense xp. At least those are the only reasons I can think of as to why it's being farmed so much more than anything else out there, while the risk level isn't higher than that of dungeons of compareable levels. It's convenient, very rewarding and easy to fetch a higher level to carry you through (or bring you back to life) from the bordering player hub.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Honoun on December 27, 2012, 11:28:25 PM
Here's a thought, remove the knuckle for healing potion thing from Lizuca. This will reduce the desire to farm the crypts even if only a little bit. Now have Herbalists make Cure Light Wounds potions that they sell back to the vendor in the herbalist crafting station in Vallaki. Just like some other crafts do in the warehouse, same deal basically. In turn that same vendor sells those same potions. Of course it will be limited stock, so if she ever sells out you're gonna have to wait for another herbalist crafter to create some more to sell to her so you can get some once more. A, it supplies a basic healing potion to the broader player base but they have to go out of their way to get it. And B, its one way for a Herbalist to earn a little coin to pay for their craft, currently they have no other means to fund it that I am aware of besides selling direct to other players or the obligatory dungeoning. Unlike other crafts that have both those and the supply of crafting items in the warehouse.

Yes I'm aware there several methods of earning coin, this is not my point though.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Lucadia on December 27, 2012, 11:46:43 PM
average cure light from hearbalist is 5 hp while potions from liz is 16. most
players that claim they are potion hunting is just excuse to form a group or exp hunt.
removing them is not going reduce desire
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Honoun on December 28, 2012, 12:31:15 AM
So make it Cure Moderate Wounds potion then, do I have to spell it out everytime? And you don't know that other players are using knuckle gathering just as an excuse, and even if they are take away the knuckle gathering and they'll have to come up with a better excuse to go down there. Who knows doing so may result in there being more RP.

The fact is at the moment the difficulty level of the crypt keeps being raised which then by default validates a higher level char to go down there cause they can still get XP if the spawn is good enough. On the flip side the result is if a low level party goes down the crypt they have little to no chance of defeating the dungeon, a dungeon that's in a low level zone no less. If my suggestion is tried then you could lower the difficulty of the dungeon to mirror more the level zone its actually in. Thus giving higher level chars less reason to do it but still allowing low levels the challenge that they seek and require. This goes for the loot as well, you can lower it so it still seems appealing to low level but to a high level its just, oh sub par... They'll end up going else where for higher challenge and reward.

And that's the whole point really, to give higher levels less reason to go down there and greater reason to go further afield. Keep upping the anti in the crypts and you're just giving them reason to stay.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Time_Stomped on December 28, 2012, 03:38:22 AM
Only if we all admit that can we engage in constructive dialogue. I've too often witnessed people so convinced by the brilliance of their design ideas that they loose sight of how frustrating they are to the players or how little they actually work for creating an endearingly interesting experience.

Pretty much this.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Honoun on December 28, 2012, 03:50:02 AM
Indeed, but when I criticise I do try to make an alternative suggestion at the same time. Something many posters don't do, they are quick to point out a negative aspect but then never offer any other method. I do hope that my posts are actually read, cause frankly most times I get the impression most just gloss over them. Which is a shame cause its not like I spend under five minutes thinking about them. In reality it ussualy takes a long time to make a post cause I am thinking the issue through or at least trying to at all angles.

At the end of the day, I do hope that I am actually making a constructive effort.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Feronius on December 28, 2012, 08:50:05 AM
Well, I agree with Lucadia, I don't think the healing tonics are the main problem at all.
It's what this topic was original about, the dungeon being so incredibly difficult compared to the general level of the area it's located in (with that I refer to it being 1 area away from the starting point where new players spawn.) It's technically more than "just a low level dungeon", hence why all the medium to high levels also bother emptying it of spawns. Harder spawns or whatever will only increase the appeal for the higher level characters.

Unless it's ment to be a relatively high level dungeon that isn't ment for the newest of characters, in that case it is working as intended, but I do frown a bit at the placement.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Ercvadasz on December 28, 2012, 08:52:14 AM
Indeed, but when I criticise I do try to make an alternative suggestion at the same time. Something many posters don't do, they are quick to point out a negative aspect but then never offer any other method. I do hope that my posts are actually read, cause frankly most times I get the impression most just gloss over them. Which is a shame cause its not like I spend under five minutes thinking about them. In reality it ussualy takes a long time to make a post cause I am thinking the issue through or at least trying to at all angles.

At the end of the day, I do hope that I am actually making a constructive effort.

yeah, i was ranting without giving any ideas, or comparison. For which i apologise!
So! Here is first a comparison to mirror what you described about the ml crypts.
What i have gathered and understood from the changes around western Barovia is that devs and dm-s wish it to be a low level area. This is why the vampire crypts and the lich's tower have been altered for. The problem is what you have described in your earlier post that the morninglord crypts was left alone, and actually the challenge of it stays on quite a high level comparing with these two. Skeleton champions, heacuvas, sometimes on occasion a high heacuva. This makes loot drop quite good, and xp gain quite good as well, till a semi-decent high level. (For heacuvas i think you get xp till like level 11 or so.)
Now to compare the crypts with another crypts, where mostly the same type of creatures reside. The von Zeklos crypts.

There you have basicly three types of enemies, and two other types in the last room.
Mutilated corpse(low level zombie), ghoul(low level enemy) and heacuva/high heacuva (mid-high enemy).
In this dungeon you are actualy a bit lost, as to is it meant for lowbies or midbies? The zombies are easy kill, but the heacuvas can give quite a time for even a level 8 char.
In this dungeon the loot is usually not rewarding. (You need to open locks or force open chests, to get very minimal loot.) The xp for a low level is rewarding, but the challenge of the occasional heacuva or high heacuva encounter, ambush is quite high/very high.(Hold person, hammer of the gods, summon skeletal knight, etc.)
My suggestion would be to switch the creature types of these dungeons. Let the crypts house these lower level enemies, with the occasional boss enemy (max a heacuva or a warrior/champ maybe normal agarat), and make the von Zeklos keep a bit harder, balance out the big differences among the available enemies there.
Because now the Zeklos crypts is seldom visited and even when it is, it is usually for crypt herbs, and knuckles.
It is quite far away from the outskirts, it is a dead-end path, so i think it would not be such a huge problem to raise its challenge.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on December 29, 2012, 12:01:44 PM
Lowering the strength of what's spawned was a large part of the more recent updates, but as mentioned, the place is currently at a constant relatively high spawn. I'm unable to log on at the moment to go lower the relative strength, but you could ask a DM if you find one online. I believe the population controller is called val_cata_undead
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Ercvadasz on December 29, 2012, 03:57:38 PM
Lowering the strength of what's spawned was a large part of the more recent updates, but as mentioned, the place is currently at a constant relatively high spawn. I'm unable to log on at the moment to go lower the relative strength, but you could ask a DM if you find one online. I believe the population controller is called val_cata_undead

I understood what i meant, i just compared the two dungeons.
On high, mid, low spawn levels the difference is very notable. If you compare the von zeklos crypts to the ml crypts the former is a ~joke~, the latter is a deadly challenge which only the presence of Liz and the Light carriers lessens. (It is likely why they are abused.)
Also the Zeklos crypts is remote, and lootwise and xpwise it is weak, again in comparison to the ml crypts, it is why so many do not even go there, because the morninglordian crypts resets to full spawn while you are making the walk to the Zeklos crypts.
It is why i suggest that either lower the medium and high spawn challenge rate for the ML crypts, or finetune the zeklos crypts, because low level, mid level, and high level spawn only differ in the number of heacuvas present (max 4 which can become high heacuvas on max spawn). The other enemies are all the same, on every spawn level.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on December 29, 2012, 04:14:32 PM
I've never actually been into the Zeklos crypt, and from what I hear it's generally not worth the effort by the time I can visit it.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: dutchy on December 29, 2012, 04:19:57 PM
There are 3 such dungeons ml temple ..... and zeklos the third you will have to find wich has a great deal of loot
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Ercvadasz on December 29, 2012, 05:16:21 PM
There are 3 such dungeons ml temple ..... and zeklos the third you will have to find wich has a great deal of loot

I just made a simple comparison, why Zeklos is not really visited.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: dutchy on December 29, 2012, 05:50:29 PM
And I gave a reason that its not all that bad

There are tons of areas that could use more visitors  but that's how it is
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Ercvadasz on December 29, 2012, 05:56:10 PM
And I gave a reason that its not all that bad

There are tons of areas that could use more visitors  but that's how it is

I am trying to be constructive, and you are jsut trolling again. I think there is a huge difference. I could have mentioned other areas as well, but i wanted to make a point, for which one comparison was quite enough.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: dutchy on December 29, 2012, 06:39:09 PM
Trolling means joking I am not making a joke here now am I

If you fail to see what I am saying then I am saying it wrong or you lack the insight.

Il try it again ok ?

You nag about the zeklos keep and. My point was there is enough to choocr from we simply have loads of areas so some would indeed be less visited.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Major Tom on December 29, 2012, 06:42:03 PM
Trolling means joking I am not making a joke here now am I

Uh.. no, that's not what trolling means. More accurately:

If you fail to see what I am saying then I am saying it wrong or you lack the insight.

Il try it again ok ?
What you just said here is a form of trolling, by basically suggesting that someone lacks insight because they disagree with you. Trolling means using logical fallacies to provoke hostile reaction.

The more you know~
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: dutchy on December 29, 2012, 06:53:06 PM
Oh you noticed  good cause I dislike accusations  wich shows in ky response.  

But I am glad you came to the rescue major ..............


One more reply from each then we get back on topic ok ?
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Major Tom on December 29, 2012, 06:54:23 PM
I was just correcting your statement, really. You said trolling = joking, and you weren't joking. You're right. You were just trolling.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Ercvadasz on December 29, 2012, 08:11:58 PM
Dutchy before you further derail the topic, please read what i have posted. I brought up ONE example, to compare it to the morninglordian crypts to make a point, nothing more and nothing less, i choose the zeklos crypts because i felt like it.
I have said that yes there are other places that do need love, and need to get with the ml crypts in pair...
I have brought up the Zeklos as one example, nothing more and less, i compared creatures, challenge, reward, xp, loot.

So yes what Tom says is true you were just trolling, and trying to derail a topic, if you did not know or realise what my aim was with my post, i am sorry, next time ask, and I shall tell it to you. Or try to rephrase it.

To give insight about what i am meaning, i could name you just as well 3-5 other dungeons easily that need the love too.

But the meaning of my post was to show how ridiculously rewarding the ML crypts is, comparing it with just one of these other dungeons. (rewarding till quite a decent level, for which it was not intended!)
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: dutchy on December 29, 2012, 09:49:23 PM
Dutchy before you further derail the topic, please read what i have posted. I brought up ONE example, to compare it to the morninglordian crypts to make a point, nothing more and nothing less, i choose the zeklos crypts because i felt like it.
I have said that yes there are other places that do need love, and need to get with the ml crypts in pair...
I have brought up the Zeklos as one example, nothing more and less, i compared creatures, challenge, reward, xp, loot.

So yes what Tom says is true you were just trolling, and trying to derail a topic, if you did not know or realise what my aim was with my post, i am sorry, next time ask, and I shall tell it to you. Or try to rephrase it.

To give insight about what i am meaning, i could name you just as well 3-5 other dungeons easily that need the love too.

But the meaning of my post was to show how ridiculously rewarding the ML crypts is, comparing it with just one of these other dungeons. (rewarding till quite a decent level, for which it was not intended!)


if you wish to see it as trolling after i even said it wasnt and that i even tried to explain what i said even more then sorry i am out of options beside my native tongue.

i gues you will read what you wish to read.

but once more the first reply and the one that i made to explain it better where not ment to troll.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Major Tom on December 29, 2012, 09:51:52 PM
You said you were not joking, assuming that 'trolling = joking'. I explained, simply, that 'trolling =/= joking', and then explained what trolling was. Big difference there. Perhaps you should read up on what trolling means before using the word and creating misunderstandings.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Craugh on December 29, 2012, 09:53:48 PM
Off topic but i am so sorry about you duergar diving onto those two sword spiders to save me haha

That would have been me. I still chuckle remembering that. My Duergar, on the other hand, will happily lop off your head IC next time he sees you. Or at least try. No hard feelings.  ;)


On topic: I just went down to the bottom of the crypts with a large party, on my lvl 4 Duergar. It was a breeze and measly xp because there were only archers and priests, up to the very end. No warriors, knights, or huecevas in sight. So either there was a low spawn, or the spawning strength was lowered by a DM or such. If it -was- a strength change, please keep it that way. It's a much more consistent difficulty for low levels. Case in point: Kilvin's never going to bother going down to the bottom again, unless RP drags him on a rescue mission.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Crimson Shuriken on December 29, 2012, 10:30:51 PM
Its because some of us can clear it, and it takes a while to grow back. Against most of what is opined in this thread.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Time_Stomped on December 30, 2012, 08:28:02 AM
When Donner gets back from NCW, I'll probably sweep in and kill the more annoying spawns and leave the rest and leave the loot.   Used to do that with the juju zombies that would instant-kill lowbies.  Other than the bottom of the crypts, of course. @_@
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: MadJKevlar on January 09, 2013, 04:17:25 AM
Off topic but i am so sorry about you duergar diving onto those two sword spiders to save me haha

That would have been me. I still chuckle remembering that. My Duergar, on the other hand, will happily lop off your head IC next time he sees you. Or at least try. No hard feelings.  ;)


On topic: I just went down to the bottom of the crypts with a large party, on my lvl 4 Duergar. It was a breeze and measly xp because there were only archers and priests, up to the very end. No warriors, knights, or huecevas in sight. So either there was a low spawn, or the spawning strength was lowered by a DM or such. If it -was- a strength change, please keep it that way. It's a much more consistent difficulty for low levels. Case in point: Kilvin's never going to bother going down to the bottom again, unless RP drags him on a rescue mission.

I like how trecherous the crypts are, its comon place on most servers the lowest end of all dungoens to train lowbies is normaly a crypt full of mindless zombies whare you can likely grind to about level six, on that basis every one new will head strait for the crypt thinking yeah i got this and then mortality hits you... it sets the tone for the server lol and it forces people to strike alliances rather then just charge around the whole thing solo wasting the spawns that could other wise prove to be a little rp adventure for a group of people.... does sux when you cant find a party though.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: What does the scanner see on January 18, 2013, 04:44:23 PM
I was in there last night and just...wow. Everything was normal until the new areas were hit. The actual enemies themselves weren't anything ridiculously high but the sheer amount was staggering. I counted no less than thirty enemies in the final room. Majority of which were archers.  The spawns themselves are fine, bu the numbers really need to be nerfed. Badly.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Kendaric on January 18, 2013, 07:35:14 PM
I was in there last night and just...wow. Everything was normal until the new areas were hit. The actual enemies themselves weren't anything ridiculously high but the sheer amount was staggering. I counted no less than thirty enemies in the final room. Majority of which were archers.  The spawns themselves are fine, bu the numbers really need to be nerfed. Badly.

Agreed, the amount of enemies is somewhat on the extremely high side. While it does provide an epic fight, it also makes the fight hard to coordinate and is a nightmare if you have lower level characters with you.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Smitehammer on January 19, 2013, 01:15:44 AM
The same could be said for ALL of the low level dungeons.  Bahkna Rakna or whatever they're called, fire beetles, Von Zeklos Crypts - they're worth next to zero XP even for low levels, but their sheer numbers mean certain death for any low level party attempting it without knowing exactly what to expect.  What would be MUCH better for low level areas is a very small number of higher level things.  For instance, Bakna Rakna cave?  Instead of having a cave full of 15 level .5 goblins and 20 .25 level gremishka, have ONE level 5 big mean goblin thing.  The lowbies would actually get XP from it and it would be less dangerous for lowbies.

Really, apply this everywhere.  This server has a weird idea for what's 'gothic horror'. 

"One Frankenstein's monster?  Nah.  Five HUNDRED Frankenstein's monsters?  Now THAT'S gothic horror!"  But while a cave full of dozens and dozens and dozens of werewolves is silly ęsthetically, the 'low level' dungeons are just plain worthless for everyone involved because of swarming of negligibly leveled hordes of bad guys.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on January 19, 2013, 05:33:31 AM
I was in there last night and just...wow. Everything was normal until the new areas were hit. The actual enemies themselves weren't anything ridiculously high but the sheer amount was staggering. I counted no less than thirty enemies in the final room. Majority of which were archers.  The spawns themselves are fine, bu the numbers really need to be nerfed. Badly.

Agreed, the amount of enemies is somewhat on the extremely high side. While it does provide an epic fight, it also makes the fight hard to coordinate and is a nightmare if you have lower level characters with you.

A "nightmare"?! Well, that does sound like gothic horror to me ;)

Sometimes, meeting a swarm is an element of horror, but I agree that too many critters can make things feel more repetitive than they are horrifying though. The reason you still see it (both here and in most games) is that it's hard to make every battle so prolonged and interesting as you can in PnP - especially when it comes to dungeons that you have to visit over and over. If there is just one big bad monster at the end, people will soon just run through the place and go straight to the kill - and clearing a dungeon would take 2 minutes.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: ManticoreRO on January 19, 2013, 05:37:06 AM
  As I see it, crypts are supposed to be extremy dangerous and a nightmare, especially for lower levels. And I always wondered why there aren't traps (except the final sarchopagus). This would make players think twice before going there alone.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: What does the scanner see on January 19, 2013, 06:35:55 AM
I was in there last night and just...wow. Everything was normal until the new areas were hit. The actual enemies themselves weren't anything ridiculously high but the sheer amount was staggering. I counted no less than thirty enemies in the final room. Majority of which were archers.  The spawns themselves are fine, bu the numbers really need to be nerfed. Badly.

Agreed, the amount of enemies is somewhat on the extremely high side. While it does provide an epic fight, it also makes the fight hard to coordinate and is a nightmare if you have lower level characters with you.

A "nightmare"?! Well, that does sound like gothic horror to me ;)

Sometimes, meeting a swarm is an element of horror, but I agree that too many critters can make things feel more repetitive than they are horrifying though. The reason you still see it (both here and in most games) is that it's hard to make every battle so prolonged and interesting as you can in PnP - especially when it comes to dungeons that you have to visit over and over. If there is just one big bad monster at the end, people will soon just run through the place and go straight to the kill - and clearing a dungeon would take 2 minutes.

I don't know. This was a bit much, especially given how those areas are laid out. Dm Decay can vouch for the er...excessivenes of the spawns that night.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on January 19, 2013, 06:41:53 AM
Well, I've tried for now to extend the delay between when things spawn during the final battle, let's see if that helps.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Silverfox on January 19, 2013, 06:52:59 AM
The difficult part is perhaps to balance it so that people are fighting squads of mid levels, instead of one big bad, or a horde of hungry midgets with albionism.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Zhernebog on January 19, 2013, 10:05:29 AM
The difficult part is perhaps to balance it so that people are fighting squads of mid levels, instead of one big bad, or a horde of hungry midgets with albionism.
I've found a fun little test to see if there are simply too many swarms in a single location. If the following happens I make a note of it and semd it to the dev team for analysis:
If great cleave pops up more than four times in a row, weve got an issue.

And that grimishka cave is worthless expwise, and much more dangerous than several other caves nearbye. The damnable little things eventually just crit parties to death by random chance.

Also I have noticed that swarms show up in a lot of places, while higher level swarms(mummies in sotek temple) provide a fun'hold the door' scenario, theyre utterly worthless combat wise and it feels more a chore waiting for the frontline to slowly hedge the garden of ancient undead
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on January 19, 2013, 10:57:29 AM
Swarms aren't inherently an issue though.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Zhernebog on January 19, 2013, 11:10:37 AM
Swarms aren't inherently an issue though.
They certainly are not a technical issue, they work as intended.
They just often aren't worth the trouble killing/the exp does not reflect the challenge, imho.
I can't imagine fighting them without great cleave, and can't ever remember seeing anyone wanting to go fight grimishkas.
derp, off-topic post. I'll move this over to the correct spot.


To stay on topic, has anyone seen a difference in the spawn rate?
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Daboomer on January 19, 2013, 11:50:56 AM
Was just down thre, likely on low spawn but i am pretty sure it is working so far, maybe a total of 20 enemies. Risen bones 12, warriors 4, archers rest.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: -narwhal- on March 05, 2013, 05:32:11 AM
Was just down thre, likely on low spawn but i am pretty sure it is working so far, maybe a total of 20 enemies. Risen bones 12, warriors 4, archers rest.

last time been at the last area i saw like 20-30 ONLY skeleton knights with 2-3 hecuvia or what the hell : D
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: ThePwush on March 05, 2013, 01:26:09 PM
Was just down thre, likely on low spawn but i am pretty sure it is working so far, maybe a total of 20 enemies. Risen bones 12, warriors 4, archers rest.

Eralynia and I saw something like this a few weeks ago. 
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Paragonville on March 05, 2013, 03:45:43 PM
Try it when it's full of knights, Huecuvas, and a handful of Skeletal Lords.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Ercvadasz on March 05, 2013, 05:09:35 PM
Try it when it's full of knights, Huecuvas, and a handful of Skeletal Lords.

Which sadly makes it again into the level 10-14 range farming zone....
Skeletal Lords, occasional High Heacuvas...:(
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on March 06, 2013, 05:31:19 PM
You know what the real problem with the lowest level of the crypts is? It isn't the spawn, it's the locations that the knights come from. The majority of the skeletons come from the main room, so the tank tends to take up a defensive position there. But then other skeletons spawn in two or three locations behind the tank and that means that everyone in the group tends to get slaughtered, because the tank can't leave his spot at the doorway. And it's not as simple as putting a tank in the back, because the ones from behind pop up simultaneously, which means you need two or three tanky people in the back. And that's not generally viable for newbies.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: FullMoon on March 06, 2013, 06:09:26 PM
The lock DC's to the -2 level are always insane too.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: FullMoon on March 06, 2013, 06:10:42 PM
You know what the real problem with the lowest level of the crypts is? It isn't the spawn, it's the locations that the knights come from. The majority of the skeletons come from the main room, so the tank tends to take up a defensive position there. But then other skeletons spawn in two or three locations behind the tank and that means that everyone in the group tends to get slaughtered, because the tank can't leave his spot at the doorway. And it's not as simple as putting a tank in the back, because the ones from behind pop up simultaneously, which means you need two or three tanky people in the back. And that's not generally viable for newbies.

Having an additonal heavy warrior or cleric guard the rear is a valid tactic.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on March 06, 2013, 06:14:53 PM
Protip: If you are careful not moving further into the place before you are sure you've cleared the current wave, you should be able to control it much better. There are several "phases" that trigger at different points.
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on March 06, 2013, 08:09:17 PM
Given its a central hub area/dungeon i've always wondered why this area was not capped at 6 or 8 for the top spawns? this way then people can spread out for other areas, as it stands (to me at least) the chance for good loot (generally speaking) and a possible lvl range gain of 12 or so on highest spawns means you draw in folks

Like....maybe adjust the Zeklos crypts like this? seriously even on top spawn i laugh at that place compared to the ML crypts with a group of lvl 5's of four working together and also barovia village crypts...why were the traps ever removed there? I recall even on a lowish spawn back a few years or so that place was fun cause you needed a rogue to tag along, now its a laughable joke to get the loot there even with a crowbar, nto saying the DC's there need work but the lack of traps to handle really ruins the threat to me i guess
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: BahamutZ3RO on March 06, 2013, 08:30:35 PM
Don't get me started on level distribution and the way certain people farm low level areas.  :roll:
Title: Re: Bottom of the Morninglord Crypts...
Post by: Honoun on March 07, 2013, 02:39:32 AM
Aww come on... Go on you know what to start  :P