Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist

Public (OOC) => Tech discussion => Topic started by: hugolino on June 25, 2011, 03:08:00 AM

Title: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on June 25, 2011, 03:08:00 AM
This may affect few players, but the new version of the Mac OS ("Lion") that will come out in July is dropping its emulation ("Rosetta) for old PowerPC code, which means that Neverwinter Nights 1 will no longer run on new or upgraded Apple computers.

As for me, since performance of NWN 1 was pathetic on my Windows computer when I last attempted to install it, I will probably just say goodbye to NWN1 completely... although I may delay upgrading to the new Mac OS for a while before then.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Thoraion on June 25, 2011, 03:18:22 AM
Oh... thanks for the warning. Makes me wonder if the rosetta emulation can't be added to lion separately.
But... if you have a mac that can run lion, isn't maybe a windows partition under bootcamp maybe an alternative for you?

By the way... do you have as well a glitch from time to time that makes the game screen blank and turns off all sounds? I can't find anything about that, and it happens to me on any mac i run NWN on (titanium, mac mini, macbook pro) ... strangely, most often that glitch occurs on the newest one (macbook pro).

GFX card issue most likely... but without a pattern i see so far (besides that sometimes it happens almost exactly every 30 minutes)
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Heretic on June 25, 2011, 03:27:58 AM
That Lion OX is incredible.

A shame, I wont be able to run nwn on my laptop anymore.

Oh well. There's still desktop.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: LawfulJoe on June 25, 2011, 03:58:03 AM
Don't buy a MAC... simple. You could get 3 PCs that CAN run NWN 1 and 2 if you wanted for the price of 1 Mac... Just not worth it for some bells and whistles. Worked on both MAC and PC and in the end for price, software and obviously, gaming compatibility, I went with PC and never looked back or regretted my choice.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: DM Strigoi on June 25, 2011, 05:38:55 AM
Don't buy a MAC... simple. You could get 3 PCs that CAN run NWN 1 and 2 if you wanted for the price of 1 Mac... Just not worth it for some bells and whistles. Worked on both MAC and PC and in the end for price, software and obviously, gaming compatibility, I went with PC and never looked back or regretted my choice.

thank god someone finialy said it *high fives lawfuljoe*


i honestly dont see why any gamer would buy a mac. its like intentionally limiting yourself heh.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: WildPirate13 on June 25, 2011, 11:52:18 AM
You can get emulators for Mac...

Have you checked into that?
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Kagetora on June 25, 2011, 12:18:41 PM
Don't buy a MAC... simple. You could get 3 PCs that CAN run NWN 1 and 2 if you wanted for the price of 1 Mac... Just not worth it for some bells and whistles. Worked on both MAC and PC and in the end for price, software and obviously, gaming compatibility, I went with PC and never looked back or regretted my choice.

thank god someone finialy said it *high fives lawfuljoe*


i honestly dont see why any gamer would buy a mac. its like intentionally limiting yourself heh.

Apple would be completely out of business if not for the iPod/iPhone.  There is a reason Macs have 2% of the market share.   ;)
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: DM Macabre on June 25, 2011, 12:28:21 PM
Yeah very correct. I'm also working on both (Mac and PC) now and I grow more and more liking my PC again.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: puckwolf on June 25, 2011, 03:04:00 PM
There are ways to get nwn (or any Windows game for that matter) working on Lion without rosetta.

First of all, as people have mentioned, you can use an emulator.  Crossover is a really good one , you could also use parallels.

If you're really savvy you can use WINE (which stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator).

Or, if you have the space and inclination to, you can install windows on your computer via bootcamp.  Then just load up in windows mode when you want to play.

If you need a Windows copy of the game you can get one for $10 here http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/neverwinter_nights_diamond_edition (http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/neverwinter_nights_diamond_edition)


I gave up on PCs after my last one died when Internet Explorer (a program i never used) uploaded a virus while I was on Firefox.  And yes I had antivirus and spyware software.  Now back all you haters! *waves a chair*
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Kagetora on June 25, 2011, 05:45:04 PM
I gave up on PCs after my last one died when Internet Explorer (a program i never used) uploaded a virus while I was on Firefox.  And yes I had antivirus and spyware software.  Now back all you haters! *waves a chair*

You just gotta stay off of THOSE websites...   :love:
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: WildPirate13 on June 25, 2011, 06:01:25 PM
Fomer Ipod tech support guy and gamer..

MACs are awesome but... not for gamers and smaller software that is Microsoft exclusive. Emulators are an option but.. I prefer PC's why?

Gaming and knowing that rarely will I run into an operating issue for software.

Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on June 27, 2011, 03:11:06 AM
To repeat: I already mentioned in my original post that I have both Windows Vista and Mac OS. Hence all the suggestions that I run Boot Camp or buy a Windows PC instead are unhelpful. A better suggestion would be how to get Neverwinters Nights 1 to be playable in Vista, because the last time I installed it -- admittedly on different hardware -- it ran so horribly it was unplayable whereas it runs without a single glitch at highest settings on Mac OS under Rosetta.

In answer to one question: The only copy of NWN1 I own is a Windows version. I followed instructions online and experimented a bit to get it to run on Mac OS under Rosetta. But despite a lot of tweaking and troubleshooting I could not get it to run decently when I upgraded my Windows OS to Vista.

In fairness, though, I didn't post this on the forums to get a "fix" for my situation but just to let the community know that newer Mac OS users will be absent from this tiny community.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on June 27, 2011, 03:19:39 AM
As for why I prefer the Mac OS to Windows or Linux (I have all three) -- it does what I personally want a computer to do best for now, in my opinion. I'm not a gamer, although I do play a few MMOs and spent several hours today messing around in Team Fortress 2. But I'm a creative type, former professional graphic designer and journalist, musician, video editor, photographer, dabbler in digital art and animation, and I also have experience with UNIX, the C programming language and more. So even though I have Windows, Linux and Mac OS, I spend most of my serious time in Mac OS. I only use Windows for gaming, but an increasing percentage of my serious games are now on Mac OS, such as Portal 2, Team Fortress 2 and so on. As for the cost, it was more expensive than a home-built computer (I've owned one), but I'm satisfied and the hardware quality is excellent. The whole package that Mac OS offers suits me well, even down to the iLife suite. I'm a happy camper.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Emomina on June 27, 2011, 03:37:52 AM
If you use Linux, i recommend it for NWN,  runs great and assumingly, will always run great without any future change making it obsolete.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on June 27, 2011, 04:37:04 AM
If you use Linux, i recommend it for NWN,  runs great and assumingly, will always run great without any future change making it obsolete.

Good point. But I use Linux on my netbook, so I'm not sure it has the horsepower to run NWN1. It might though. Maybe I had better forestall putting Android on it then... Hmmm...
Title: Re: New Mac OS will be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on June 27, 2011, 05:10:03 AM
Here's a solution for any fellow Mac OS users who want to run NWN1 without rebooting into Windows or who can't run it well in Windows. Download the open source program Wineskin (http://wineskin.doh123.com/) and then the Wrapper for NWN1 (http://www.mediafire.com/?0xcpdsln6f6jcm6). Install these and then install your copy of NWN1 using them. Enjoy.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on June 28, 2011, 04:29:22 PM
A word of advice to anyone using Wine to run NWN1, edit the nwn.ini file so that it has the following two lines:

[Display Options]
Disable Movies=1


NWN1 has been running fine apart from being able to run the movies. Meanwhile I tried running it on Windows Vista and after one successful run of the game it now often crashes without warning. So emulation via Wine definitely seems preferable to me. :)
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Heretic on July 20, 2011, 04:24:13 PM
New Lion is out!

Curious if any of you have (will try) the solutions to run nwn without Rosetta on Mac OX Lion.

Does it work?

Let me know!
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on July 21, 2011, 09:06:00 AM
New Lion is out!

Curious if any of you have (will try) the solutions to run nwn without Rosetta on Mac OX Lion.

Does it work?

Let me know!

I haven't installed Lion yet, but I would think the Wineskin (Wine) solution I gave above should work just fine with it. I won't be able to test that in the short term though. Even though Lion is inexpensive I am tight on cash, so I'm going to wait on upgrading the OS.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on August 10, 2011, 09:49:21 PM
New Lion is out!

Unusually for Apple, this upgrade release reportedly has many bugs for some users, according to anecdotal online complaints, while other users are having no problems at all and are pleased with the performance improvements. So I recommend that any fellow Mac users wait a month or two before upgrading, which actually is sound advice with any operating system (including Linux and Windows).

I will update this thread when I finally upgrade and let you guys know how NWN1 runs on Lion in Wine.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: rabidsmily on December 23, 2011, 07:22:21 PM
By the way... do you have as well a glitch from time to time that makes the game screen blank and turns off all sounds? I can't find anything about that, and it happens to me on any mac i run NWN on (titanium, mac mini, macbook pro)

I have the exact same problem! It seems mostly to occur at random, but it seems to be exacerbated by when I command-tab in and out and do web surfing on Safari while playing. Then the error hits, the game screen turns entirely black except for the hotkeys, GUI overlays (such as inventory and spell-book), and the chat windows. Strangely enough a workaround that I found is to ask a friend to walk near me, I type "@follow" and when the friend walks through a transition, I appear on the opposite side of the transition and the graphics begin to behave normally again! If there are no players I can "@follow" then I have to log out, close the application, and then start up and log back in again!
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on July 26, 2012, 12:10:36 AM
New Lion is out!

Curious if any of you have (will try) the solutions to run nwn without Rosetta on Mac OX Lion.

Does it work?

Let me know!

I can confirm that the Wineskin solution posted in this thread does allow NWN to run flawlessly (as far as I can tell) on Mountain Lion, which was released today (July 25). I wasn't able to test whether it worked with the earlier version of the operating system, Lion, because I skipped that one.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Heretic on July 26, 2012, 12:15:27 AM
How is Mountain Lion working for you?
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on July 26, 2012, 03:45:39 AM
How is Mountain Lion working for you?

The upgrade went smoothly and quickly after I downloaded the new operating system, which only took about 20 minutes or so to download. Setup lasted about a minute. Then I doublechecked my settings in the control panel before settling in and using it.

So far I haven't experienced any problems at all, and any changes to my way of doing things hasn't annoyed me, such as the optional reversed mouse wheel direction for scrolling windows (tablet style rather than traditional desktop style). All of the software that I actually use is compatible with Mountain Lion. As for the few that are too old to do so, they mainly amount to a dozen old games that I won't miss, and a half dozen freeware non-game applications. As noted, I am still able to play NWN1 via Wineskin. Internet feels more responsive, but that could be my imagination or just the updated built-in web browser, which I didn't use much in the past.

Ask me how I feel about the upgrade in a few days of course after the dust has settled, but for now it has been positive, more than I anticipated.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Dread on July 26, 2012, 12:10:49 PM
Does Wineskin work with the Toolset? I've been using WineBottler, and I've had no luck running the toolset on my laptop.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Heretic on July 26, 2012, 12:23:10 PM
Does Wineskin work with the Toolset? I've been using WineBottler, and I've had no luck running the toolset on my laptop.

AFAIK, it does not. :S
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Telkar on July 26, 2012, 04:52:34 PM
If you use Linux, i recommend it for NWN,  runs great and assumingly, will always run great without any future change making it obsolete.

I'm on Linux and have NWN installed, but I can't get the playing experience that I got on Windows sadly. It has done much to prevent me from peeking in the server for the past year (don't bother doing such small things if I have to boot into Windows to do so. The main things lacking is the inability to minimize the screen (alt+enter I think), and to have a free camera (which I used a small Windows program to do). Can't really do without it. But maybe someday with free time, one might hack this to work.

Won't ever get a mac though, but sorry to hear about that lack of NWN support. : \
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on July 27, 2012, 02:26:25 AM
Won't ever get a mac though, but sorry to hear about that lack of NWN support. : \

There was a Mac version released years ago, but from the Lion version of the operating system onward the old game broke. However it works great using WineSkin, excluding the Toolset.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Telkar on July 27, 2012, 03:50:33 AM
Ah ok...that reminds me also. No toolset in the linux version either. ; \
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on August 03, 2012, 11:59:57 PM
Ah ok...that reminds me also. No toolset in the linux version either. ; \

At the core, Linux and Apple's OS X run on virtually the same engines. I've used both as my primary operating systems before, and despite the same core I would say OS X is like a luxury car and Linux tends to be a kit car. Both appeal to niche consumers, a definite minority. In contrast, Windows is the omnipresent (in the U.S.) SUV... although its latest incarnation is admittedly a daring one. Someday I'd love to run only Linux or none of the above, but for now I'm running all of them: OS X, Linux, and Windows. At this time OS X is the one I use the most, and it is definitely the one that is the least fussy.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: tzaeru on August 05, 2012, 08:49:50 AM
If you use Linux, i recommend it for NWN,  runs great and assumingly, will always run great without any future change making it obsolete.

Eventually it will obsolete in all likelihood. X is basically deprecated and should be replaced, which probably breaks old SDL libraries from working with it; And while you can use newer SDL with NWN, eventually SDL too will no longer support all the old things that NWN uses. Though, for all the days to come, can always run NWN in emulators. :P

I'm on Linux and have NWN installed, but I can't get the playing experience that I got on Windows sadly. It has done much to prevent me from peeking in the server for the past year (don't bother doing such small things if I have to boot into Windows to do so. The main things lacking is the inability to minimize the screen (alt+enter I think), and to have a free camera (which I used a small Windows program to do). Can't really do without it. But maybe someday with free time, one might hack this to work.

Won't ever get a mac though, but sorry to hear about that lack of NWN support. : \

Personally on my Linux desktop, I run NWN in windowed mode. I hide the toolbars and such from desktop, set same resolution for NWN as I have for the desktop, and voila! NWN runs perfectly in it's faked full screen and I can alt+tab around. :)
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Telkar on August 05, 2012, 12:31:01 PM
Sounds nice. I just got searching for the free camera stuff for linux I can't be without and I found it. =D

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=1426 (http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=1426)

Frigging awesome. It's pretty much playable to me now. The only slight annoyance is that in windowed mode, I can't move the mouse to the edges of the screen to change perspective. Feels clumsy using the mouse scroller for that, but could make keyboard shortcuts for it. It'd take time getting used to.

Edit: Got a bit excited cause my only reason for Windows is because of NWN, but guess I won't get rid of it cause of the toolset -_- ,,,they say it doesn't work so well in wine.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: tzaeru on August 07, 2012, 10:35:56 AM
Edit: Got a bit excited cause my only reason for Windows is because of NWN, but guess I won't get rid of it cause of the toolset -_- ,,,they say it doesn't work so well in wine.

If you've relatively new hardware and nVidia card, it probably works "well enough".

For my own 7 years old desktop computer with an ATI card, NWN Toolset does work almost flawless in Wine - the only problem is horribly broken lighting, which unfortunately makes building anything impossible. However, I do think this might be much less of an issue for newer comps and graphics cards.

Also, if you don't want to dual boot, you can install Windows on a virtual machine (like VirtualBox (free) or VMWare (free basic version)) - the performance decrease wouldn't matter at all with newer computers.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Telkar on August 07, 2012, 12:41:46 PM
Yes I'll virtualize windows for it. I'll have to do it for other reasons later anyway.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Budly on August 07, 2012, 05:23:57 PM
PC = Gaming, entertainment
Mac = Trendy, working computer
 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: tzaeru on August 08, 2012, 01:50:06 PM
PC = Gaming, entertainment
Mac = Trendy, working computer
 :mrgreen:

If we get technical, both Macs and PCs have practically exact same hardware - hence it could be said that Mac is just a brand for PCs.. :P

OS X in general runs almost everything that Linux does and a bit more. Even the top notch game engines and creation frameworks like Unity3D run both Windows and OS X.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on August 09, 2012, 04:08:06 AM
PC = Gaming, entertainment
Mac = Trendy, working computer
 :mrgreen:

If we get technical, both Macs and PCs have practically exact same hardware - hence it could be said that Mac is just a brand for PCs.. :P

OS X in general runs almost everything that Linux does and a bit more. Even the top notch game engines and creation frameworks like Unity3D run both Windows and OS X.

All good points from both of you. I personally also appreciated the durability of every Apple computer I've purchased in the past and present as well as the slower than normal rate of depreciation, which has allowed me to heavily subsidize the cost of buying a newer computer from the sale of my previous one. But I suspect that desktop computers are a waning breed, and I'm not too happy at the thought of seeing them replaced by "devices" equivalent to tablets, smart phones, and consoles. :(
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Telkar on August 09, 2012, 05:08:09 PM
Replaced? You mean the imacs?

Don't know about that. People around me still seem to like them. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me though. A proper PC box where you can upgrade the hardware at will sounds a lot cheaper in the long run. If I wanted a mac I'd get a laptop.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: hugolino on August 12, 2012, 04:03:57 AM
Replaced? You mean the imacs?

Not at all. I am referring to the marginalization of the desktop computer of any type (including true laptops) in favor of computer appliances, such as smart phones, tablets, consoles, and other devices. This isn't happening as a top-down sort of change. Rather it is consumer-driven. We have already reached the point in the U.S. where more people have such devices than have computers and the majority of people in the U.S. now access the Internet exclusively using smart devices rather than computers. (I'm a former journalist and a webmaster, so I've kept up with these statistics.) Unless the trends change, I suspect computers will again become a niche product for the few who really want one. The rest won't care.

Meanwhile, the operating systems of Windows, OS X, and Linux are moving more and more towards a smart device-like interface rather than a more sophisticated and complex traditional one. Whether they're responding, leading, or a combination of both, the direction is the same.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Telkar on August 12, 2012, 06:07:17 AM
I guess so. Makes me happy I'm on Linux and can choose whatever interface I like. That choice will stay in the future.
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Marasmus on February 07, 2013, 02:02:26 PM
Sorry to revert the conversation but I am about to buy a MacBook Pro for school, is there really no way I can play NWN1 on the thing?
Title: Re: New Mac OS won't be able to run old NWN1
Post by: Dread on February 07, 2013, 02:57:11 PM
I play NWN1 on a MacBook Air nowadays, generally speaking. All you need is to download Wineskin...

http://wineskin.urgesoftware.com/tiki-index.php

And this fellow here made an easy wrapper for people to use, gives a nice set of instructions that explains things pretty well.

http://bbellina.blogspot.com/2012/01/running-nwn-for-windows-on-lion-using.html

Hope this helps!