I would rather see the new Hub be either the village or port. I dont think the Vistani would be happy so many insane outlanders moved into their camp, at all times
Ponies.
Could not resist :)
My main issueis it takes too much time to go and leave the mist camp. Whereas the outskirts are thirty seconds away from logging in and two minutes away from adventure.
The Hub is more a place where we as Players jointly decide to gather
I'd like Port-à-Lucine Eastern Outskirts as potential hub.
It allows Vistani travel in the same map. It is NPC-free. It's close to town as western Outskirts are to Vallaki, with similar dangers at entering at night. And it's in a crossroad with the University area. I really think that would make the best simil-Western-Outskirts starting point.
A suggestion, perhaps we can make a poll where players can vote wich place will be the second hub , so the staff can concentrate their efforts mainly in that place?
I would rather see the new Hub be either the village or port. I dont think the Vistani would be happy so many insane outlanders moved into their camp, at all times
Its a camp. Its moveable. It could literally be anywhere, within the Mists themselves, or on some small pocket of land encapsulated by the Mists. Use this. Make the area roughly 8x, or more, the size it is now. An island of land in the Mists themselves, with a semi-permanent Vistani Camp in the corner of the map. In the REST of the map, make a ruined village/town. Somewhere that was swallowed by the Mists and forgotten from memory. Now that you have that, with buildings (and possibly ruined buildings, crypts, cellars, sewers, etc. to explore), populate the area SPARSELY with what essentially amounts to "entrepeneurs," in the form of people (Outlanders, Core Realm Expatriates, occasional Criminals) who have decided to call the place "home," and "set up shop," as it were. An Inn, a Bar or two, perhaps some people who make useful things, etc. MOST of the town will be utter ruins (probably haunted by the original residents), but a small section, a few buildings, will be renovated/fixed and used as businesses. Adventurers are rich...everyone knows this (even if it isn't true), so why not make some coin by having a business there? Sure, spirits may roam the streets at night, and its a dangerous place to live and work...but so is the REST of Barovia/the Core. And it may be LESS dangerous for some of the people who live there than where they came from (criminals, traitors, etc.).
It could still be dangerous as hell to wander alone at night. Just like the Outskirts, Vallaki, Port, etc. The ghosts are unfriendly. You could have some basic crafting stations, possibly even ruined ones, or you could just make people go somewhere like Port to craft...its a 3-minute, 100-fang ride. Or, better yet, put some things there (you decide what), and ONLY there, to give people a reason to be there, and hang out. Perhaps some specialty shops that sell things people actually want/need, an NPC that hands out quests for new areas in Port or Barovia (or anywhere else), etc.
But, as it stands right now, using the current Mist Camp as a hub would be completely wrong, IMO. The Vistani would pack up and move if that happened. :P
Well, for the record, I would support somewhere else (Barovia/Port) as a second RP hub, but if you insist on the Mist Camp, it would be fairly easy to "flesh it out," since, as you say, it isn't canon and can be defined by us.
Its a camp. Its moveable. It could literally be anywhere, within the Mists themselves, or on some small pocket of land encapsulated by the Mists. Use this. Make the area roughly 8x, or more, the size it is now. An island of land in the Mists themselves, with a semi-permanent Vistani Camp in the corner of the map. In the REST of the map, make a ruined village/town. Somewhere that was swallowed by the Mists and forgotten from memory. Now that you have that, with buildings (and possibly ruined buildings, crypts, cellars, sewers, etc. to explore), populate the area SPARSELY with what essentially amounts to "entrepeneurs," in the form of people (Outlanders, Core Realm Expatriates, occasional Criminals) who have decided to call the place "home," and "set up shop," as it were. An Inn, a Bar or two, perhaps some people who make useful things, etc. MOST of the town will be utter ruins (probably haunted by the original residents), but a small section, a few buildings, will be renovated/fixed and used as businesses. Adventurers are rich...everyone knows this (even if it isn't true), so why not make some coin by having a business there? Sure, spirits may roam the streets at night, and its a dangerous place to live and work...but so is the REST of Barovia/the Core. And it may be LESS dangerous for some of the people who live there than where they came from (criminals, traitors, etc.).
It could still be dangerous as hell to wander alone at night. Just like the Outskirts, Vallaki, Port, etc. The ghosts are unfriendly. You could have some basic crafting stations, possibly even ruined ones, or you could just make people go somewhere like Port to craft...its a 3-minute, 100-fang ride. Or, better yet, put some things there (you decide what), and ONLY there, to give people a reason to be there, and hang out. Perhaps some specialty shops that sell things people actually want/need, an NPC that hands out quests for new areas in Port or Barovia (or anywhere else), etc.
But, as it stands right now, using the current Mist Camp as a hub would be completely wrong, IMO. The Vistani would pack up and move if that happened. :P
Arrow Arrow Arrow Arrow Has anyone thought of maybe moving the mist camp itself? They are after all wagons and tents.. and Vistani...
Quote:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: Has anyone thought of maybe moving the mist camp itself? They are after all wagons and tents.. and Vistani...
*sighs*
Ditto, great idea and inspiring post - merits bringing it up at the next dev meeting. :thumbup:
you guys realise that ppl are to lazy and are not gonna sit down and *cencored* for 3 minutes to get to the place of destination you change that area into having any significanse then shorten the travel time as it would not appeal to ppl.
and when i say ppl i mean ME and stuff revolves around ME yuppers big ol ME
Its a camp. Its moveable. It could literally be anywhere, within the Mists themselves, or on some small pocket of land encapsulated by the Mists. Use this. Make the area roughly 8x, or more, the size it is now. An island of land in the Mists themselves, with a semi-permanent Vistani Camp in the corner of the map. In the REST of the map, make a ruined village/town. Somewhere that was swallowed by the Mists and forgotten from memory. Now that you have that, with buildings (and possibly ruined buildings, crypts, cellars, sewers, etc. to explore), populate the area SPARSELY with what essentially amounts to "entrepeneurs," in the form of people (Outlanders, Core Realm Expatriates, occasional Criminals) who have decided to call the place "home," and "set up shop," as it were. An Inn, a Bar or two, perhaps some people who make useful things, etc. MOST of the town will be utter ruins (probably haunted by the original residents), but a small section, a few buildings, will be renovated/fixed and used as businesses. Adventurers are rich...everyone knows this (even if it isn't true), so why not make some coin by having a business there? Sure, spirits may roam the streets at night, and its a dangerous place to live and work...but so is the REST of Barovia/the Core. And it may be LESS dangerous for some of the people who live there than where they came from (criminals, traitors, etc.).
It could still be dangerous as hell to wander alone at night. Just like the Outskirts, Vallaki, Port, etc. The ghosts are unfriendly. You could have some basic crafting stations, possibly even ruined ones, or you could just make people go somewhere like Port to craft...its a 3-minute, 100-fang ride. Or, better yet, put some things there (you decide what), and ONLY there, to give people a reason to be there, and hang out. Perhaps some specialty shops that sell things people actually want/need, an NPC that hands out quests for new areas in Port or Barovia (or anywhere else), etc.
But, as it stands right now, using the current Mist Camp as a hub would be completely wrong, IMO. The Vistani would pack up and move if that happened. :P
Has anyone here experienced having to be in queue for more than a few minutes? We can implement several caravan wagons if needed.
Has anyone here experienced having to be in queue for more than a few minutes? We can implement several caravan wagons if needed.
Yes actually. The last time I played in fact. We ended up waiting for whoever it was to get to the mist camp and as soon as they appeared they turned around and took off again to Port-a-Lucine, so we had to wait again.
I end up waiting about a couple of times a month currently so I am concerned if the traffic through the area increases a lot.
Crafting materials are must to accommodate the change in my view. The more the merrier. That way it avoids IG squabbles and doesnt give established crafters/merchants a huge advantage over new crafters.
The three destinations don't even really need the crafting materials closeby but perhaps have a seperate "trade" caravan that will bring them to a current area near said materials in the core lands(why make another area when you can use the current ones), and make it a one-way thing as to not be exploited. "We'll bring you to X Giorgio but we must collect goods there and will not have room for you."
Minimum level reqs could also be added to NPC conversationsDo they have that in place at all yet?
QuoteMinimum level reqs could also be added to NPC conversationsDo they have that in place at all yet?
:cheer:
Arrow Arrow Arrow Arrow Has anyone thought of maybe moving the mist camp itself? They are after all wagons and tents.. and Vistani...
*sighs*
Razz It's a group effort Big Grin
I'm trying to implement some of the suggestions presented here (the more involving suggestions would take more time though), but through reading the posts again, it occurs to me that there might be some lack of clarity about what is meant by hub.
It is clear that not all characters would fit in to the place - I imagine only very few would feel comfortable taking permanent residence amidst the mists. But by hub, the point is more that it should be an intersection or meeting point rather than the place the more elaborate roleplay plays out. From an OOC perspective, it is a place to go if you are looking for people to roleplay with, but thereby not suggesting that the entirety of the roleplay has to take place there. From the IC perspective, when your character hangs out there, he or she is might be on their way somewhere but making temporary halt, looking for allies, trading at the camp, waiting for the next caravan or something else.
Are you saying that you don't feel any changes need to be made to the game area itself, and that its simply up to the player base to force themselves to go use it?
I still don't see the point of this whole idea. I mean the port is already a RP hub, and has some considerable things to fight at night, and in it's sewers. There hardly appears to be a reason not to just expand on what we already have, instead of making a whole new place. The only real diffrence is 100 fang for the Mist camp, and 200 for Port.
Put in a few other places (some basements or a smaller version of the Drain) so that the "undesireables" would have a place to congregate and RP as well.
I think the point I'm trying to put forward is perhaps best illustrated by using the Western Outskirts as analogy. You don't have crafting stations right there, you don't have the Drain, Dvergeheim and Degannwy as sub-areas to this place. Although the travel distance is short, given the functioning of the mist camp and the caravans, the travelling distance to places like Dementlieu isn't further than from the Western Outskirts to Dvergeheim. The mist camp has the advantage that virtually everywhere can be nearby. In the discussion of proximity and travel distance, there's no better place than the Mist Camp really.
Travelling with the vistani caravans takes just 3 minutes. Even if you have to wait for a caravan to be available, it won't be more than 5-6 minutes. When people walk (and perhaps even roleplay!), it'll take more time getting from the Western Outskirts to the other end of town.
And the more people who start to frequent the place, the better the chances you can split the cost with someone else.
Travelling with the vistani caravans takes just 3 minutes. Even if you have to wait for a caravan to be available, it won't be more than 5-6 minutes. When people walk (and perhaps even roleplay!), it'll take more time getting from the Western Outskirts to the other end of town.
And the more people who start to frequent the place, the better the chances you can split the cost with someone else.
Lets try this from a new perspective.
The mist camp is doomed, it's established in everyones mind as a travel point and nothing more.
The idea was never to kick uber folks out of Vallaki, but to keep them from loitering in the outskirts
See, I can pull single sentences from a paragraph to removing half the meaning from it.
Hard fact is you can't depend on a DM or staff to make an area attractive. It sets up Tarroka to get burned out and again does not guarantee the player base a reason to be there because there's no guarantee Tarroka is logged on or working on an event.
To create a hub you need these ingredients. Guaranteed roleplay, how do you guarantee roleplay? You create a reason for players to utilize the area for a more extended period of time. How do you keep a player in an area for a more extended period of time? Create an unlimited benefit to the desired group, unfortunatly it can't be roleplay because that's our desired Ingredient, so perhaps roleplay opportunities, or crafting, or housing, or open trade. perhaps Vallakia will ban the sales of magical crafts or bounties,
Like I said before, and I assume is being done, the mist camp we know now would need to be modified and revamped to become a viable hub.
I think a one way travel to Barovia for a premium isnt a silly idea... Like a caravan one way for 500g ^_^
Do you mean one-way trips to the Outskirts? That would seem reasonable as there already is a Vistani camp there.
QuoteDo you mean one-way trips to the Outskirts? That would seem reasonable as there already is a Vistani camp there.
I agree if there is a chance for a second real hub to form it would help the issue.
Not in favor of Barovia as a hub myself. Ocr is an issue for many.
QuoteDo you mean one-way trips to the Outskirts? That would seem reasonable as there already is a Vistani camp there.
I agree if there is a chance for a second real hub to form it would help the issue.
Ok, I keep seeing folks saying that fast travel will make having a roleplaying (or meetup/hanging-out) hub elsewhere more attractive. With the idea of having the hub(s) elsewhere, why is returning to Vallaki that important? I'm truly curious and would like to see the ideas behind this.
Ok, I keep seeing folks saying that fast travel will make having a roleplaying (or meetup/hanging-out) hub elsewhere more attractive. With the idea of having the hub(s) elsewhere, why is returning to Vallaki that important? I'm truly curious and would like to see the ideas behind this. The purpose of the hub relocation is that you'd be unlikely to come back very often, and thus making travel back (fast or not) infrequent. If you had plenty of roleplaying and dungeoning opportunities at the new hubs, why else are you coming back, that begs the need for fast travel?
People would just stand in the outskirts and wont go anywhere.
Could people please easen up a bit on the I-know-better-attitude? It's disheartening to read, and I'm sure the torches and pitchforks would come out instantly if we as developers imposed the same attitude. I imagine not many of you have tried building large PWs, so it's not very fitting to lock yourself in the lecturing attitude. And unless we can actually discuss things (as in weighting both sides equally), we are just moving in circles. Don't just tell people how it's going to be like, but bring forward points that might affect how it'll be like.
By personal experience though, I feel the best we can do at this point - where there's lots of arguments for and against - is to acquire some experiences in game. If you want to help with that, try life as a mist-camp hang about for a time, share what you've learned (this will be especially relevant once the new version is up). If you are not up for participating in that, no one is going to hold that against you. We don't want to force anyone in to using the Mist Camp as a hub. We don't force anyone to use the Western Outskirts as a hub either.
Working off the whole vistani drinking tent, i came up with a rough "Picnic" site area. Sort of an outdoor "Tavern" that would suit the vistani's style caravan style. Sure there's no tent, but it's still pretty mobile. Here's the quick idea screenshot of it. (Because visual aid is better then none!)
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/7255/newbitmapimagexn.png)
What we've considered is perhaps to have the Naiat (Vistani tribe) put up a drinking tent in the Mist Camp. While the Vistani themselves are probably above excess drinking, they never mind making some gold by offering their services. For the Naiat tribe, that is entertainment.
*hops up and down like a little girl in glee*
I like the alteration of the mist camp. Is there going to be more?
Any possibility of adding more clan individuality to the varied visiting camps? Flavour text makes it interesting, maybe even with some unique NPC offering some minor play thing only if the right Clan is visiting?
:arrow: Herbalist in the port or the mist camp.
Turns out, i found the herbalist in Port-a-Lucine. It's the ktichen in the main Hala hospice, next to the slum trans that leads to the docks. Which leads to the grand bazaar.
People have brought up group renting for housing, and the like. Most support the idea being in Port-a-Lucine, i say those lands need to be extended more. Offering much as Barovia does, but at a higher level. Exactly as the bounties for Port are it's high leve attraction, so should the land surrounding the city. Forest, farmlands, and lakes. All with a nice road to travel, and wild game. Even a few port NPC estates, like the Jalabert's for RP events.