Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist
Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: ethinos on June 01, 2011, 01:49:37 PM
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Any chance of us ever being able to modify our phenotypes? I'm sure the 6'6" humans would like to look tall, and gaunt folks would like to look really skinny. More variety for calibans would be kinda nice too, with options other than runt/half-orc sizes. It's mildly annoying right now knowing that one human is two feet taller than the next but is the same size phenotype in-game.
I've seen things in the Vault like Issig's Tall Phenotypes (http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Hakpaks.Detail&id=7907&id=5341), Issig's Slight Phenotypes (http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Hakpaks.Detail&id=7907&id=5342), and Tall Human People (http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Hakpaks.Detail&id=2937), for example.
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The issue with such phenotypes are, I believe, that it wouldn't work for CEP item appearances.
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Hmm. The Issig ones, at least, are supposed to be compatible with CEP:
I have made it compatible with the CEP
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Thumps up to this! Would be awesome with this kind of diversity :)
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Hmm. The Issig ones, at least, are supposed to be compatible with CEP:
I have made it compatible with the CEP
One version of the CEP perhaps, but it would have to be updated every time the CEP updates. And since it was last updated about a year ago, it unfortunately seems it's no longer updated.
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Plus every character would probably just be the largest phenotype, so everyone would still look the same. :P
Every time I have seen a human character's height mentioned in a bio, it's like 6'8".
Bio: He's SO TALL you WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT! This man TOWERS over you.
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Plus every character would probably just be the largest phenotype, so everyone would still look the same. :P
Every time I have seen a human character's height mentioned in a bio, it's like 6'8".
Bio: He's SO TALL you WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT! This man TOWERS over you.
*plays a 5'9'' Feat-monkey* I guess Boyo be midget? :lol:
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Would love it, Miuos supposed to be 4 foot and lithe, atm she appears the same size as others who play elves who are much bigger then her XD
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One version of the CEP perhaps, but it would have to be updated every time the CEP updates. And since it was last updated about a year ago, it unfortunately seems it's no longer updated.
I was using these haks as a reference. Maybe there is another way of achieving the effect? New versions of the CEP don't come out very often.
Plus every character would probably just be the largest phenotype, so everyone would still look the same. :P
Every time I have seen a human character's height mentioned in a bio, it's like 6'8".
Bio: He's SO TALL you WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT! This man TOWERS over you.
Every warrior type does seem that way doesn't it? Apparently, if you are under 6 foot, you can't be a warrior. However, I like options.
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The variety would make it much more realistic ^-^, lawls now that you mention it. . .i don't think iv ever seen a male human fighter who was 5'5" or under.
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Thumbs up from me. :wink:
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Reiko would be elf sized. 5 foot or so. So not /everyone/ would be bigger.
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Plus every character would probably just be the largest phenotype, so everyone would still look the same. :P
Every time I have seen a human character's height mentioned in a bio, it's like 6'8".
Bio: He's SO TALL you WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT! This man TOWERS over you.
I'd just like to point out that people growing taller then 6 foot is -very- modern thing thanks to our improved lifestyle of the modern era, children being fed often enough to avoid starvation, inoculated etc has meant that there growth is no longer stunted as it was.
In the 19th century the average male was about 5' 5"
In the 15th century there was a man recorded as a "Giant" for being 6 foot tall.
I'm not saying "Ur doin it wrong!" but please remember (Especially if you're a native) that unless you had access to very good healing and food whenever you wanted it it's highly unlikely your character would simply have had the nutrition/lifestile to be over 6 foot tall.
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One version of the CEP perhaps, but it would have to be updated every time the CEP updates. And since it was last updated about a year ago, it unfortunately seems it's no longer updated.
I was using these haks as a reference. Maybe there is another way of achieving the effect? New versions of the CEP don't come out very often.
It entails resizing every itempart model for every new phenotype for every playable race. It's not rocket science, but it's a big load of repetitive work. Even if you automated it somehow, it would take that you wrote the program to do that, and add to that a good bit of tweaking, debugging and packaging. It would take a developer dedicating him or herself for the task for a good while, at least the first time around.
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Plus every character would probably just be the largest phenotype, so everyone would still look the same. :P
Every time I have seen a human character's height mentioned in a bio, it's like 6'8".
Bio: He's SO TALL you WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT! This man TOWERS over you.
I'd just like to point out that people growing taller then 6 foot is -very- modern thing thanks to our improved lifestyle of the modern era, children being fed often enough to avoid starvation, inoculated etc has meant that there growth is no longer stunted as it was.
In the 19th century the average male was about 5' 5"
In the 15th century there was a man recorded as a "Giant" for being 6 foot tall.
I'm not saying "Ur doin it wrong!" but please remember (Especially if you're a native) that unless you had access to very good healing and food whenever you wanted it it's highly unlikely your character would simply have had the nutrition/lifestile to be over 6 foot tall.
While this is true in a very generic sense, bear in mind that many populations of the world did not fit this "European peasantry" mode. As a second point, bear in mind that, to have an average of 5'5" or 5'6", you have to have a significant portion of the population above that average (as well as one below it). If 50% of the people were that height, 25% would be taller, 25% shorter, and you'd get your average. Thirdly, this is a game of heroic fantasy. Heroes are, by definition, not average.
So, the fact that all the people running around are tall, or beautiful, or hideous, or extra-smart, or whatever is, IMO, exactly right. PC's and "heroes" (or villians) are supposed to be exceptional individuals. One in many thousands. Thats the point.
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One version of the CEP perhaps, but it would have to be updated every time the CEP updates. And since it was last updated about a year ago, it unfortunately seems it's no longer updated.
I was using these haks as a reference. Maybe there is another way of achieving the effect? New versions of the CEP don't come out very often.
It entails resizing every itempart model for every new phenotype for every playable race. It's not rocket science, but it's a big load of repetitive work. Even if you automated it somehow, it would take that you wrote the program to do that, and add to that a good bit of tweaking, debugging and packaging. It would take a developer dedicating him or herself for the task for a good while, at least the first time around.
I'm always willing to bribe a developer with a case of beer! (Or do it myself, though I have little previous experience coding anything besides webpages.)
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Plus every character would probably just be the largest phenotype, so everyone would still look the same. :P
Every time I have seen a human character's height mentioned in a bio, it's like 6'8".
Bio: He's SO TALL you WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT! This man TOWERS over you.
I'd just like to point out that people growing taller then 6 foot is -very- modern thing thanks to our improved lifestyle of the modern era, children being fed often enough to avoid starvation, inoculated etc has meant that there growth is no longer stunted as it was.
In the 19th century the average male was about 5' 5"
In the 15th century there was a man recorded as a "Giant" for being 6 foot tall.
I'm not saying "Ur doin it wrong!" but please remember (Especially if you're a native) that unless you had access to very good healing and food whenever you wanted it it's highly unlikely your character would simply have had the nutrition/lifestile to be over 6 foot tall.
While this is true in a very generic sense, bear in mind that many populations of the world did not fit this "European peasantry" mode. As a second point, bear in mind that, to have an average of 5'5" or 5'6", you have to have a significant portion of the population above that average (as well as one below it). If 50% of the people were that height, 25% would be taller, 25% shorter, and you'd get your average. Thirdly, this is a game of heroic fantasy. Heroes are, by definition, not average.
So, the fact that all the people running around are tall, or beautiful, or hideous, or extra-smart, or whatever is, IMO, exactly right. PC's and "heroes" (or villians) are supposed to be exceptional individuals. One in many thousands. Thats the point.
If you say so. But if i see anyone over 7 foot tall again i'm running them down the sewer with the rest of the caliban. :D
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If someone was unnaturally tall, I can see folks whispering about being fey-touched, possessing giant blood, or the like. After all, not being normal was viewed with suspicion in unenlightened societies like Barovia.
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Plus every character would probably just be the largest phenotype, so everyone would still look the same. :P
Every time I have seen a human character's height mentioned in a bio, it's like 6'8".
Bio: He's SO TALL you WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT! This man TOWERS over you.
But but.. My heroic paladin is only 5"9 feet.. :o
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One version of the CEP perhaps, but it would have to be updated every time the CEP updates. And since it was last updated about a year ago, it unfortunately seems it's no longer updated.
I was using these haks as a reference. Maybe there is another way of achieving the effect? New versions of the CEP don't come out very often.
It entails resizing every itempart model for every new phenotype for every playable race. It's not rocket science, but it's a big load of repetitive work. Even if you automated it somehow, it would take that you wrote the program to do that, and add to that a good bit of tweaking, debugging and packaging. It would take a developer dedicating him or herself for the task for a good while, at least the first time around.
But how bloody awesome would it be!
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Heroes are, by definition, not average.
So, the fact that all the people running around are tall, or beautiful, or hideous, or extra-smart, or whatever is, IMO, exactly right. PC's and "heroes" (or villians) are supposed to be exceptional individuals. One in many thousands. Thats the point.
This reasoning is fine in PnP, but falls apart in a NWN server with a regular playerbase of more than a hundred.
Why can ten or more of these utterly unique, exceptional individuals be found gathering in the ML church / pub on a daily basis? Why do they outnumber the number of 'normal' priests there?
Some kind of intent to be within the bell curve of normality isn't a bad thing. Too many special unique snowflakes just become a featureless mass of snow.
Incidentally, I once saw a dwarf whose bio mentioned him being 35 ft tall and eating pine trees for breakfast.
I lol'd.
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Judging everything by the standards of Dark/Middle Age Europe is a very narrow point of view to take in a game that includes elves, dwarves, tieflings, "wombfreaks," half-orcs, etc.
The reason ten or more of these "exceptional individuals," i.e. abnormally-sized humans, can be found gathered in the outskirts on a daily basis is simply that the Mists chose those "more than a hundred" people based on the fact that they WERE exceptional, and they now live and congregate amongst the tens of thousands of Core residents, who ALSO have their own exceptional individuals to add to the mix. The fact that they only have a few "safe" places to gather means that they will gravitate to those areas and be found there en masse.
In fact the reasoning does NOT fall apart on a NWN server...it becomes more valid.
Besides....you are all overstating the problem. I look at individuals' descriptions on a near-constant basis (usually while waiting for people to get done typing in RP), and I would say 50% of them say nothing except "Uninjured/Neutral," and of the remaining 50% that I see less than 20% of those actually list a height. Most are just simple physical descriptions, some are page-long narrative histories. Yes, a lot of the people who put heights in their descriptions would be considered "abnormal," but the rest of the people WITHOUT a description or a height could easily be considered to fall within the average, yes?
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Plus every character would probably just be the largest phenotype, so everyone would still look the same. :P
Every time I have seen a human character's height mentioned in a bio, it's like 6'8".
Bio: He's SO TALL you WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT! This man TOWERS over you.
I'd just like to point out that people growing taller then 6 foot is -very- modern thing thanks to our improved lifestyle of the modern era, children being fed often enough to avoid starvation, inoculated etc has meant that there growth is no longer stunted as it was.
In the 19th century the average male was about 5' 5"
In the 15th century there was a man recorded as a "Giant" for being 6 foot tall.
I'm not saying "Ur doin it wrong!" but please remember (Especially if you're a native) that unless you had access to very good healing and food whenever you wanted it it's highly unlikely your character would simply have had the nutrition/lifestile to be over 6 foot tall.
I agree. My native is only 5'3" and rather skinny lol
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I'm always willing to bribe a developer with a case of beer! (Or do it myself, though I have little previous experience coding anything besides webpages.)
Hah, beer is good, but I think you'd need quite a few. There's thousands of models that would need scaling, so it's really only feasible to do if you come up with some smart batch script and an algorithm that'll work universally. Perhaps that Issig guy has one.
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My avatar is 12 inches long !!!! way longer then the average !!! Wait ... what size are we talking about ???
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Judging everything by the standards of Dark/Middle Age Europe is a very narrow point of view to take
That's what Civilisation ratings are for, all Major domains tend to have comparisons for European history. As such if you want to remain true to the setting factoring in things like the history and poulation of Dark/Middle age Europe is important.
Just by playing a nonhuman you're playing something unique and different in a world that is populated by over 95% humans, you don't need to be a 6ft beefcake or a stunning lithe and beautiful supermodel to stand out. Plus, in Barovia the nails that stand out get the hammer first.
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Judging everything by the standards of Dark/Middle Age Europe is a very narrow point of view to take
That's what Civilisation ratings are for, all Major domains tend to have comparisons for European history. As such if you want to remain true to the setting factoring in things like the history and poulation of Dark/Middle age Europe is important.
Just by playing a nonhuman you're playing something unique and different in a world that is populated by over 95% humans, you don't need to be a 6ft beefcake or a stunning lithe and beautiful supermodel to stand out. Plus, in Barovia the nails that stand out get the hammer first.
And not all PC's are from the Major Domains with comparisons to European History. In fact, I would say Natives tend to be in the minority. I guess the real question is, why do you care? I pointed out how the PC's are the "exceptional," how the Mists pull in the "exceptional," how the natives who join them are also the "exceptional" (as opposed to some Port Fop or Barovian Farmer hiding in his hut), and also how the VAST majority of PC's don't even have a description or have one that mentions nothing about height, and so could be considered to constitute the "average.".
Are the dozen or so people wandering around claiming to be 6"8" or so "ruining your immersion?"
I mean, really. Its a description someone typed. It means something to them, and their enjoyment. It has ZERO effect on the game. Is this really an issue?
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Judging everything by the standards of Dark/Middle Age Europe is a very narrow point of view to take
That's what Civilisation ratings are for, all Major domains tend to have comparisons for European history. As such if you want to remain true to the setting factoring in things like the history and poulation of Dark/Middle age Europe is important.
Just by playing a nonhuman you're playing something unique and different in a world that is populated by over 95% humans, you don't need to be a 6ft beefcake or a stunning lithe and beautiful supermodel to stand out. Plus, in Barovia the nails that stand out get the hammer first.
And not all PC's are from the Major Domains with comparisons to European History. In fact, I would say Natives tend to be in the minority. I guess the real question is, why do you care? I pointed out how the PC's are the "exceptional," how the Mists pull in the "exceptional," how the natives who join them are also the "exceptional" (as opposed to some Port Fop or Barovian Farmer hiding in his hut), and also how the VAST majority of PC's don't even have a description or have one that mentions nothing about height, and so could be considered to constitute the "average.".
Are the dozen or so people wandering around claiming to be 6"8" or so "ruining your immersion?"
I mean, really. Its a description someone typed. It means something to them, and their enjoyment. It has ZERO effect on the game. Is this really an issue?
I guess I could pretty safely say that no, it isn't an issue to any of us. We can still find it funny, though!
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Are the dozen or so people wandering around claiming to be 6"8" or so "ruining your immersion?"
I mean, really. Its a description someone typed. It means something to them, and their enjoyment. It has ZERO effect on the game. Is this really an issue?
Hmm. The only reason I mention this is because I'm sure the players are simply perpetuating the stereotype of the fighter being a larger than ordinary man. The problem comes in when everyone that is a fighter is suddenly 6'6". When everyone is 6'6", then no one is the biggest fighter. So, their next PC becomes 6'9". Then everyone needs to be 6'9. Repeat ad nauseum.
We'll have only half-giant fighters eventually! :lol:
Soren: Two cases of beer and a pizza, delivered!
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I would simply love seeing this on the server. It would add just that much more life to it. If the task was somewhat simple, and could be explained and was only rather repitive, perhaps a team of players could volunteer to take on the task? Or, as was mentioned before, has anyone tried to contact the creator of the one that worked with CEP to see if there was an automated way to achieve it?
Average Height by Race, from the D&D 3.5 Players Handbook Descriptions.
Humans - 5ft - "a little over six feet tall"
Dwarves - 4ft - 4 1/2 ft.
Elves - 4 1/2 - 5 1/2 ft.
Gnomes - 3 - 3 1/2 ft.
Half-Elves - "From under five feet to about six feet tall".
Half Orcs - "Between six and seven feet all".
Halflings - "About 3 feet tall"
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Hmm. The only reason I mention this is because I'm sure the players are simply perpetuating the stereotype of the fighter being a larger than ordinary man. The problem comes in when everyone that is a fighter is suddenly 6'6". When everyone is 6'6", then no one is the biggest fighter. So, their next PC becomes 6'9". Then everyone needs to be 6'9. Repeat ad nauseum.
Height creep? XD
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I think its too much work. We've played this game long enough to accept that the engine has some flaws and limitations because of its age, models and heads are one of them. We all have good enough imaginations to picture people being different heights, its just the same as people using the same heads, we dont really imagine everyone looking like clones do we? I dont.
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Judging everything by the standards of Dark/Middle Age Europe is a very narrow point of view to take
That's what Civilisation ratings are for, all Major domains tend to have comparisons for European history. As such if you want to remain true to the setting factoring in things like the history and poulation of Dark/Middle age Europe is important.
Just by playing a nonhuman you're playing something unique and different in a world that is populated by over 95% humans, you don't need to be a 6ft beefcake or a stunning lithe and beautiful supermodel to stand out. Plus, in Barovia the nails that stand out get the hammer first.
And not all PC's are from the Major Domains with comparisons to European History. In fact, I would say Natives tend to be in the minority. I guess the real question is, why do you care? I pointed out how the PC's are the "exceptional," how the Mists pull in the "exceptional," how the natives who join them are also the "exceptional" (as opposed to some Port Fop or Barovian Farmer hiding in his hut), and also how the VAST majority of PC's don't even have a description or have one that mentions nothing about height, and so could be considered to constitute the "average.".
Are the dozen or so people wandering around claiming to be 6"8" or so "ruining your immersion?"
I mean, really. Its a description someone typed. It means something to them, and their enjoyment. It has ZERO effect on the game. Is this really an issue?
I guess I could pretty safely say that no, it isn't an issue to any of us. We can still find it funny, though!
Yup, pretty much. Also what Ethinos said.
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If someway this could be done, it would be really immersive.
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Plus every character would probably just be the largest phenotype, so everyone would still look the same. :P
Not really. Nemien likes being 5'0". In fact her height is one of the few things she's not insecure about :).
Now if we were playing NWN2 where model scale can be adjusted (so you don't need 4 different sized versions of the same model) that'd be great but unfortunately we are not.
Every warrior type does seem that way doesn't it? Apparently, if you are under 6 foot, you can't be a warrior. However, I like options.
Durak's 3'8".
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and I would say 50% of them say nothing except "Uninjured/Neutral," and of the remaining 50% that I see less than 20% of those actually list a height. Most are just simple physical descriptions, some are page-long narrative histories. Yes, a lot of the people who put heights in their descriptions would be considered "abnormal," but the rest of the people WITHOUT a description or a height could easily be considered to fall within the average, yes?
Don't forget the swathe of default descriptions. I usualy get as far as "Your only hope of fame and f-" before wanting to shout "shut up!" at the screen. It makes me want to berrate people for not being creative but I don't :).
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with the sub-race system already in place, could a new sub-race for all races be added, that being the sub-race of _Human? If such a system was added, then you could have dwarf peno-typed humans, Elf sized humans, and huge half orc sized humans. It would take some scripting, as human bonus/feats and abilities would have to be scripted to override the game, but since the NWNX is being implemented, It is possible.
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Tinkering with phenotypes is complicated because it can break compatibility with armor/clothing appearances depending on the changes being made. Changes to height would be one of those changes that would mess things up, because you'd have to stretch/shrink the armor models to fit the new tall/short phenotypes.
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Only way around this is having a static phenotype like a human in the Toolset. Not sure, but I think their armor is stuck to their models. So if you can make a werewolf bigger, I'm sure those can be bigger too. Which would leave everyone with practically the same character models. Which of course would suck. It's one option, just not a pretty one.
I for one wouldn't want to give the developers such a hard time for such a little pay-off. There are exceptions to the norm in terms of height, but come on, weeks/months work for a few inches? Let's be a bit realistic there.
If a male human is truly so large, play a Half-Orc, give him human colored skin and a human-looking head. Done. (If that is allowed of course)
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I'm allright with the things we have currently, pretty much got used to it. About über-heights and immersion, if tend to react on heights mentioned in the description and a towering figures can be really demoralizing....neck hurts always looking up :lol:
Not to mention falling in love to every super-model character....so yes actually these petty things have some effect on some of us roleplay....at least it has on mine. (side note: I usually just ignore unrealistic unhuman descriptions, like the unmatching eye colors, and 7' height or the beauty matched to a godess'.)
What might be able to solve the problems though and add to immersion, if we could use the human race with other races' models. So a half-orc model, human race, for a bulky man...just give him some normal human head, or a dwarf model if you really want to play a midget who's not a dwarf.
Extremities like such, would likely throw the character into the caliban faction. (Question: a 7 feet tall human is considered a caliban no? As it's just unnaturally huge!! ) :lol:
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(Question: a 7 feet tall human is considered a caliban no? As it's just unnaturally huge!! ) :lol:
I would think so - at least a native born. Half-Orc or rediculously large human from some other plane will still be treated as one. So it doesn't matter at all I'd say.
This got me a bit thinking though. There are ways to make a tiny, huge character by premaking him/her in the toolset, making it an NPC-like character then ingame change the phenotype to that NPC. A large problem is that you'll never be able to change clothes without DM help.