Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist
Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Green Monster on March 15, 2010, 05:02:15 PM
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I've brought this up before, but always in threads related to different things, so I thought I'd make a specific thread dedicated to the subject: Archers are still getting screwed when it comes to bypassing DR. Arcane archers should -not- be the only archer builds that can do it, and so far they are.
I've seen examples of almost every type of melee weapon that can bypass DR. Katanas, longswords, morningstars, quarterstaves, just to name the ones I saw only yesterday. Where's the crossbows, bows, and slings +1? The spells Magic Weapon and Greater Magic weapon do NOT work on ranged launchers, so why is it that we have tons of +1 melee weapons but no +1 ranged launchers? Shouldn't it be the other way around? If this (http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/624/onikiri.jpg) isn't too powerful for the server, then surely this (http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=5772.msg232541#msg232541) isn't either.
Having DR byapssing ranged weapons would give mages who use all their spells buffing the melee fighters something to do during the fight, and give the lower lvl rogues something to do other than stand around waiting for a lock to needing to be picked to show up. I really don't see why we don't have them. No one has yet explained to me any valid reason.
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My archer can bypass DR, you just have to have the patience to either find the +1 longbow or the money to buy one. They are out there...my druidess also has a +1 sling, same goes. They just dont drop very often.
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There are +1 bows and better. Also there is a crafted bow for just about every occasion. It's when you hit the +2 stuff it gets bad. I remember the first time I went to the ice palace and learned I couldnt hurt anything with that characters bow, I was really disappointed. Why the server is littered with creatures that require +2 or better to hit is beyond me, but until it changes we will always have the high caster population we do, really the server demands it. The other night Suz (level 15th rogue with uber gear) Kayne (18th lvl barbarian with mighty fine gear himself) and Serenity (12th lvl Barb I think ???) were all sitting around wanting something to do and concluded we were all useless without casters and gave up on it. A sorry state of affairs. In contrast my 14th lvl cleric can do tons of things and doesnt need anyone to do them, not sure what the solution is but lower/fewer dr's would help I guess.
~Taty~
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I've brought this up before, but always in threads related to different things, so I thought I'd make a specific thread dedicated to the subject: Archers are still getting screwed when it comes to bypassing DR. Arcane archers should -not- be the only archer builds that can do it, and so far they are.
I've seen examples of almost every type of melee weapon that can bypass DR. Katanas, longswords, morningstars, quarterstaves, just to name the ones I saw only yesterday. Where's the crossbows, bows, and slings +1? The spells Magic Weapon and Greater Magic weapon do NOT work on ranged launchers, so why is it that we have tons of +1 melee weapons but no +1 ranged launchers? Shouldn't it be the other way around? If this (http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/624/onikiri.jpg) isn't too powerful for the server, then surely this (http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=5772.msg232541#msg232541) isn't either.
Having DR byapssing ranged weapons would give mages who use all their spells buffing the melee fighters something to do during the fight, and give the lower lvl rogues something to do other than stand around waiting for a lock to needing to be picked to show up. I really don't see why we don't have them. No one has yet explained to me any valid reason.
This very same subject was already brought up to discussion by you in another thread. Please understand that we've made certain balance decisions for a reason. Ranged weapons have a HUGE advantage that you keep avoiding to mention - You don't have to stand in close melee! Crossbows just got a huge buff with the new might system on them and long bows are as far as I know pretty powerful already.
Also bows and crossbows are plentiful in comparison to more rare weapon types such as kukris which barely even has any magic choices available. I don't think we've ever (the dev team) had the intention that every weapon needs to be balanced in availability, i think it makes sense that weapons like longswords, halberds and hammers are common in Barovia and dominate the weapon availability.
Getting a good might bonus launcher + enchanted ammunition will dish out a lot of damage. If the monsters you're fighting have a high DR there's always the solution to fight other monsters OR party up with people capable of defeating that very monster. Every class cannot exceed in every aspect. (for examples: rogues don't do well vs undead, clerics dont do well in high trapped dungeons, fighters handle most mobs that aren't magical well but need defensive spells against magic stuff)
My point is, server is designed for parties not solo play - and not every weapon is available in every form.
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I do not understand the fuss. There are thouls, ghouls, ghasts, sea trolls, goblyns, skeletons, bandits, darklings, spiders, ants, treants, worgs....
... And the list goes on and on, of creatures that have no DR/+1. But even if every weapon type had a vanilla +1 version, then there are plenty of DR/+2 and DR/+3 monsters that you will need to fight with spells and GMW melee. There are just some battles that the skillful classes are not the stars, or even able help. Stock up on potions, and scrolls, use them to be support in these times. If its so important to bypass DR from afar, then the crafted Bowyery will do them all. If its not good enough to your liking, then don't go to places with DR monsters. There are places to go that are fun, profitable, and challenging that do not have the DR issue. If my character can not kill something, I don't go into that fight without someone who can. If I want to contribute, I go to places that I can. Just my 2cents.
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I do not understand the fuss. There are thouls, ghouls, ghasts, sea trolls, goblyns, skeletons, bandits, darklings, spiders, ants, treants, worgs....
... And the list goes on and on, of creatures that have no DR/+1. But even if every weapon type had a vanilla +1 version, then there are plenty of DR/+2 and DR/+3 monsters that you will need to fight with spells and GMW melee. There are just some battles that the skillful classes are not the stars, or even able help. Stock up on potions, and scrolls, use them to be support in these times. If its so important to bypass DR from afar, then the crafted Bowyery will do them all. If its not good enough to your liking, then don't go to places with DR monsters. There are places to go that are fun, profitable, and challenging that do not have the DR issue. If my character can not kill something, I don't go into that fight without someone who can. If I want to contribute, I go to places that I can. Just my 2cents.
You cannot GMW a bow can you? I never tried but Im am pretty sure it dont work so archer is in the boiling shit pot here.
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I do not understand the fuss. There are thouls, ghouls, ghasts, sea trolls, goblyns, skeletons, bandits, darklings, spiders, ants, treants, worgs....
... And the list goes on and on, of creatures that have no DR/+1. But even if every weapon type had a vanilla +1 version, then there are plenty of DR/+2 and DR/+3 monsters that you will need to fight with spells and GMW melee. There are just some battles that the skillful classes are not the stars, or even able help. Stock up on potions, and scrolls, use them to be support in these times. If its so important to bypass DR from afar, then the crafted Bowyery will do them all. If its not good enough to your liking, then don't go to places with DR monsters. There are places to go that are fun, profitable, and challenging that do not have the DR issue. If my character can not kill something, I don't go into that fight without someone who can. If I want to contribute, I go to places that I can. Just my 2cents.
You cannot GMW a bow can you? I never tried but Im am pretty sure it dont work so archer is in the boiling shit pot here.
Think you missed something Budly. Also please be a bit more constructive with your arguments.
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The problem is that most night encounters involve lycanthropes, Werewolves and Wererats, people should not wander alone during the night, but if you must, situations like returning from a dungeon, half party dead, then the only ones still okay are the ones that stood behind, Ranged Combatants and a half beaten blocker, but then they cannot hurt those shapeshangers unless they pull their melee weapons, which I presume must be at least +1, then if the number of enemies is relatively small, okay, if not they Ruan for their lives. If they had +1 bows, the half beaten blocker maybe would stand a few moments while his ranged buddies would out last the foes. This is just an example of what could happen. I don't see the fuss in Not having +1 ranged weapons, there aren't that many Bowmen or Crossbowmen around, rather fully armored people buffed to the skies. Why there are so many +1 weapons when there are also many people that can cast GMW. Note that I don't find the number of +1 melee weapons high, just making a comparison. Most ranged builds, or so I have seem, are of people trying to live like a huntsman/woodsman/craftsman, there might be some builds with focus in combat but I, myself, didn't see many.
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I will be the first to admit that the challenge in places varies greatly depending on your character, and I have played almost everything to mid level. But my main character is Rogue, straight rogue. There is not a doubt in my mind that the most challenging characters to play are Rogues in the low to mid levels. They are completely a support class, a class that's presence in party can make challenging dungeons into low risk, but they are rarely, if ever, a requirement. Traps that are deadly to the low hps of a Rogue/Bard are easily sprung and shrugged off by 100+ hp characters like Barbarians, and also not until decently high levels will a Rogue's Open Lock be signficantly better than a pixie familiar or a skill focused open lock "Knock" caster or a Trickery Domain Priest. Your AB is almost never high enough to go toe to toe with the dungeon inhabitants, and your own damage output and ability to take damage are not good enough to win a straight fight. Your fortitude and will saves are so low that most aura effects and on hit properties of monsters affect you frequently and to great detriment. .... I can not imagine how much less effective sacrificing Sneak Attack Hit die for Bard levels would make a character....
What I am trying to summarize is that I feel you, have chosen to play possibly one of the most ineffective character builds to take on the dungeons on the server. Its very challenging. But if archery became so effective, in order to make Tabitha more effective and less of a challenge, then it would do the same for every party make up on the server. Of course, I don't think you have experienced all of the challenging places on the server, I may be wrong, but I can think of several places where having one character take all the immediate danger and the rest sitting back and using bows would completely negate the balanced challenges that were well thought out and implemented. The aura effects, and the on-hit properties of monsters and opponents are part of what makes them challenging, and worth experience points. The fact that some of these same monsters shrug off the damage of a mundane projectile, is to make the enemy close the distance and stand toe to toe with it.
The great thing is, you never ever have to fight one single fight if you don't have to. There have been several character that I know that make whole levels, at the high levels without any xp except from their roleplay xp rewards.
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I will be the first to admit that the challenge in places varies greatly depending on your character, and I have played almost everything to mid level. But my main character is Rogue, straight rogue. There is not a doubt in my mind that the most challenging characters to play are Rogues in the low to mid levels. They are completely a support class, a class that's presence in party can make challenging dungeons into low risk, but they are rarely, if ever, a requirement. Traps that are deadly to the low hps of a Rogue/Bard are easily sprung and shrugged off by 100+ hp characters like Barbarians, and also not until decently high levels will a Rogue's Open Lock be signficantly better than a pixie familiar or a skill focused open lock "Knock" caster or a Trickery Domain Priest. Your AB is almost never high enough to go toe to toe with the dungeon inhabitants, and your own damage output and ability to take damage are not good enough to win a straight fight. Your fortitude and will saves are so low that most aura effects and on hit properties of monsters affect you frequently and to great detriment. .... I can not imagine how much less effective sacrificing Sneak Attack Hit die for Bard levels would make a character....
The great thing is, you never ever have to fight one single fight if you don't have to. There have been several character that I know that make whole levels, at the high levels without any xp except from their roleplay xp rewards.
I can echo this. Since Phaett (pure rogue) has no real friends she has difficulty joining a group killing dungeon denizens and finding tasty things. Going solo can only get her so far. That is fine because the server was designed for groups. The last two levels I've gained is mostly from rp xp anyway.
IMO if more powerful bows presented themselves, it may take away some of the challenge. Challenge is what makes life interesting.
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Ranged weapons have a HUGE advantage that you keep avoiding to mention - You don't have to stand in close melee! Crossbows just got a huge buff with the new might system on them and long bows are as far as I know pretty powerful already.
*sighs* The advantage of not needing to be close is already negated by several DISadvantages built in to the game engine itself;
1) In order to do good damage with a mighty ranged weapon, you need both Strength and Dexterity, Dex for AB and Str for damage. Melee's need only Strength for both. Making a build with high strength and high dex both not only makes a character that's extremely limited in non-combat options (skills, charisma, etc) it also just basically makes a melee who's wasted her or his points on the dex and should have spent it all on strength because.... (see numbers 2 and 3)
2) There is no limit to the amount of damage bonus from strength on melee weapons, whereas a ranged str bonus for damage is limited by the value of it's mighty property, so the aforementioned STR/DEX build would have been better off putting all their points into Str to get melee AB and damage both from a single stat. Except for in the case of a monumentally badly designed melee, a melee will always be doing MORE damage per attack than a ranged AND gets more of those attacks if they so choose. See numbers 3 and 4
3) Melee's can get 6 attacks per round (improved two weapon fighting) whereas the most a ranged with longbow can get is 5 (rapid shot) and the most a ranged with crossbow can get is four, and you need rapid reload for that (the most my char will ever get is 3 with rapid reload).
4) Melees can get ADDITIONAL free attacks through Great Cleave and Whirlwind Attack. No such options exist for ranged.
5) When an opponent breaks off from melee and goes after the archer (which happens to me fairly often), that archer is then forced to either switch to a melee weapon they're probably not very good with (due to having spent so many of their feats on archery), or continue to use their ranged weapon and thus give the opponent a free attack every time she or he shoots. Point Blank Shot feat does NOT negate attacks of opportunity from using a ranged weapon in melee, despite what some people who haven't ever tried it think.
So you see, ranged is already far, far weaker in every way than melee. The "not needing to be close" thing is more than compensated for already, not to mention that you don't always have any choice about how close you are. There's no need to cripple it further with a lack of equality in weapons. We need +1 ranged, especially crossbows, which are even weaker than longbows and are too heavy for your average archer to carry more than one of.
My point is, server is designed for parties not solo play - and not every weapon is available in every form.
Because of the attacks of opportunity caused by using a ranged weapon in melee combat, no one in their right mind is going to solo with a purely archer focused character, IMO, except against foes that are ludicrously weak. The whole POINT of ranged is for party play: to give rogues and buff-mages something to do in combat itself other than just stand there.
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A ranged combatant has no chance solo versus most creatures, he will, normally, have a low AC compared to an armored, shield wielding or buffed character. I can't imagine a decent experience in situations where you cannot help the party at all, unless the archer has some smart arrows with cool disabling effects. Ranged combatants must have a front line, even if they had a +3 enhanced bow, they are naturally tied to a party. This lack of "enchanted" bows and crossbows never bothered me because I hardly used them in NwN, but I don't understand why they don't exist or are so so rare to find. Having a ranged support that can actually support you will never ruin the experience, people will find it handy to have ranged support, therefore more partys will band together, rangers will have some utility for their bows, putting their their free ambidexterity to rest.
I think most of the really strong things have a +2 resistance. What is the big impact a +1 bow will cause?
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Point Black Shot does work. Can somebody confirm this?
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Point Black Shot does work. Can somebody confirm this?
I get Attacks of Opportunity against me when using a bow with point Blank shot, Its always been like that.
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No way, so I waste a feat every time I get it? Just checked the nwnwiki.org and the feat description there doesn't say anything about negating attacks of opportunity, but the in game description does so, doesn't it?
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Emomina,
We've been through this before, you and I. Having decent ranged weapons will not turn 90% of the server into archers so that every situation is one person holding off a horde while everyone else shoots. First of all, I've been in that situation where there was only one melee (me, a fighter, another rogue, and a mage). One person cannot hold off a horde because when that person is completely surrounded and the others cant reach him, those others go after the archers. The only way this works is in dungeons with narrow doors, which requires careful planning and teamwork, which I thought we were supposed to ENCOURAGE.
Second of all, no one chooses archer because of "lowered risk" due to the attacks of opportunity and, frankly, archer is a VERY weak build compared to melee. Finishing your opponent off quickly before it can hurt you much is the lowest risk, and you cant do that with an archer at all. Not even with an arcane archer with rapid shot, a melee with great cleave and improved two weapon fighting still blows the archer away in terms of fast offensive power (see my last post in this thread).
Who does choose archer then? Only people who want to rp that type of character, for rp reasons, (I know of two, Costel and Lia, both good players) and those who's focus is on their skills or spells instead of on combat. Archer becomes the only viable option for most mages and rogues (lower level rogues, anyway).
I've played melee several times. I had a very successful fighter/bard on Arabel and an even more successful ranger/cleric there before I made Tabby there as a more social/party oriented character. I think what we have here is a bunch of melee-only players who greatly over-estimate the benefits of ranged without even seeing for themselves how much it sucks here. Standing there being unable to do anything to help while someone else is fighting for their lives is a HORRIBLE feeling. I'm REALLY sick of it to the point of considering leaving. I didn't come here to only stand around and talk. I came here and designed Tabby on Arabel in the first place to be a valuable support for a group. There she was, here she isn't. I left there and came here because I like the setting here better, but lately I'm not having fun. Standing there helpless while someone else fights a bunch of werewolves I cant hurt at all is NOT fun. No one likes to feel like a dead weight in the party.
Purist,
Point Blank Shot does not at all negate attacks of opportunity and the in-game description does not say it does. Without Point Blank Shot, you have a -4 AB penatly to opponents within a certain close range (10 feet I think?) but with it you get a non-magical +1 AB to them when they are close.
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They gonna use your sentence and tell you that the Horrible feeling is part of the Gothic experience. ;D
Edit: Dark Powers damn it, thought it said it did, lol, poor english understanding of mine.
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I'll try to stay on topic and give my own experience since one of the 2 PCs I play atm is a Michaella (Mike), a rogue-12 who never engages in melee.
Mike was a weird case, on account that I remade 2 years ago when the server went off for a bit. So, when I returned here to play she had zero gear. I mean zero. She was a rogue-12 with a mundane longbow. Of course I couldn't cut undead, couldn't cut anything that had any kind of DR. Even with her high sneak-attacks. My take on every class except the Fighter/Paladin/Ranger/Barbarian is that they are meant to be support classes in combat. Mike as a rogue can detect/handle traps, open the locks, use her appraise to make coin.
Granted, it takes some effort to find a party to suit your needs. For example mike -totally- needs a figher and another warrior-ish PC so that she can stay behind and shoot. Even now with quite some coin gathered and some good items, she still can't pierce +2 DR. There are many times I have to stay at the back, and well, do whatever else I can do to help. Throw potions, and so on. Same when I adventure with my bard, she's more helpful healing and throwing buffs and bard-song, than actually being in front or dealing any kind of damage -even- with a bow.
What I mean to say is that the way I see it, what you contribute in a party does not necessarily have to do with the damage you deal. Sometimes some buffs, a bard-song, picking locks, detecting a trap so people won't step on it... those are useful for a party in a dungeon. And of course the RP. I'd rather have a PC with me in a dungeon that makes the dungeoneering interesting and fun with their RP, than have a killing machine that just clicks the red outlines.
I am not really an expert on the current gear on the server. Perhaps there's better melee gear than ranged. But I frankly have no problem playing Mike. What matters is whether me and the players I dungeoneer with have fun. No one's seriously counting and judging upon how much damage a PC deals.
That's my humble opinion.
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When a Dm throws an event at you that keeps you out after dark, and then the only fighter in the group starts getting his behind handed to him by werewolves you cant even scratch while you're out of spells and potions from the event, tell me how much fun that is. Tell me how it makes you feel to only stand there.
There are PLENTY of situations a group can find themselves in where trap finding and lock picking arent needed, but combat ability is almost always needed. Being able to bypass at LEAST +1 DR is a MUST here in order to feel like a contributing member of the group, and by your own admission YOU can bypass +1 DR. Neither I nor any other crossbow oriented character can, afaik, and those who have +1 longbows are rare. A melee who doesnt yet have a +1 weapon can buddy up with a mage who knows GMW, an archer doesnt have that option, and unlike ranged, +1 melee weapons are not even remotely hard to find.
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Did not say that everyone would become an archer because fact is, almost everyone is an archer already. Especially since the morale system was implemented, who does not carry a weapon to shoot fleeing enemies anymore?
My point was, that Tabitha is not a very powerful character build. That is perfectly ok. However, most of the server's characters are quite optomized for what they do. If you make archery something that is useful against DR/+1, it will have an impact on dungeons such as the two werewolf caves or battles with Morghs or Bodaks or all the rest of the DR/+1 monsters. However more deadly and useful it would make Tabitha in your opinion, it would make many many others instantly more effective at archery in more situations. And for those characters that are great at fighting, but not great at resisting Knockdown, or Called Shot, or Aura effects, or Ability drain or Level drain or Disease or Curses.... Well its a no brainier that if you can kill them from afar as easily as you can from in close then why not.
There is no tried and true method to do most dungeons, the more adaptable you are with your tactics and your involvement, the more effective you can be.
I think you are jumping the gun a bit. There will come a day when Tabitha has more than enough resources to overcome what was once a terribly tough challenge. At the very least, you should be able to spam scrolls and provide AB buffs. You have a character built from the two most versatile classes, yet you want to be able to tackle every challenge with the same tactice with equall success. Tabitha's role should change depending on who is with her, what kind of help they need, and what kind of opponents she faces.
But, you are steadfast, and stubborn ;) Perhaps your persistency will bring about an increase in +1 ranged weaponry. And when that day comes, I want shuriken +1 also, so I can fell a loup garou with one.
Bows have :
+1 vs Undead
+1 vs Chaos
+1 vs Law
I see no reason why having the same three options with crossbows would not solve this complaint. At least then you would need to carry three crossbows to have the answer to the DR/+1 condundrum
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almost everyone is an archer already. Especially since the morale system was implemented, who does not carry a weapon to shoot fleeing enemies anymore?
Wrong. Carrying a ranged weapon is NOT "being an archer". Every melee character carries at least one ranged weapon, of course, on every server. But it's not what they use most often, and it's not what they were built for. IRL i have a toolbox in my house, does that make me a mechanic?
My point was, that Tabitha is not a very powerful character build. That is perfectly ok. However, most of the server's characters are quite optomized for what they do. If you make archery something that is useful against DR/+1, it will have an impact on dungeons such as the two werewolf caves or battles with Morghs or Bodaks or all the rest of the DR/+1 monsters. However more deadly and useful it would make Tabitha in your opinion, it would make many many others instantly more effective at archery in more situations. And for those characters that are great at fighting, but not great at resisting Knockdown, or Called Shot, or Aura effects, or Ability drain or Level drain or Disease or Curses.... Well its a no brainier that if you can kill them from afar as easily as you can from in close then why not.
Wrong again. You can't "kill them as easily from afar" because A) they dont just stand there doing nothing while you shoot and B) not even an arcane archer who CAN get past the DR can do as much damage as fast as a well built melee.
There is no tried and true method to do most dungeons, the more adaptable you are with your tactics and your involvement, the more effective you can be.
I think you are jumping the gun a bit. There will come a day when Tabitha has more than enough resources to overcome what was once a terribly tough challenge. At the very least, you should be able to spam scrolls and provide AB buffs. You have a character built from the two most versatile classes, yet you want to be able to tackle every challenge with the same tactice with equall success. Tabitha's role should change depending on who is with her, what kind of help they need, and what kind of opponents she faces.
When spells and bard songs run out, I want to be able to fight. Even if she had a heavy crossbow +3 she'd NEVER be ANYWHERE near as good at fighting as a melee fighter or even an arcane archer, and I'm FINE with that. I am NOT fine with not being able to fight at all against +1 DR monsters.
But, you are steadfast, and stubborn ;) Perhaps your persistency will bring about an increase in +1 ranged weaponry. And when that day comes, I want shuriken +1 also, so I can fell a loup garou with one.
They already exist, I've seen them for sale at the mist camp hundreds of times. They cost a fortune, though.
Bows have :
+1 vs Undead
+1 vs Chaos
+1 vs Law
I see no reason why having the same three options with crossbows would not solve this complaint. At least then you would need to carry three crossbows to have the answer to the DR/+1 condundrum
3 crossbows = 27 pounds of weight. That is NOT an option. There is NO need to make ranged rogues and mages carry 3 weapons.
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Ok, I am wrong. :|
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When a Dm throws an event at you that keeps you out after dark, and then the only fighter in the group starts getting his behind handed to him by werewolves you cant even scratch while you're out of spells and potions from the event, tell me how much fun that is. Tell me how it makes you feel to only stand there.
I'll just reply on this part since I don't think I have anything more to contribute on the rest of the issue.
Recently I had a DM event. My PC was alone. The 'monster' was very strong. It easily detected my PC even if she's good at her sneaking. It was a huge terrifying beast of a wolf. It only took 3 blows to kill Mike. Mike even lost some items in that brief encounter.
How did it make me feel? It was actually one of the most thrilling and enjoyable encounters I have ever had and shaped my PC a lot.
I can understand there are different takes on this, that was my take on it though. I enjoyed it immensely.
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Emomina,
Look, I understand what you're trying to say about the challenge level, but it's just not true. Giving fair and equal weapons to both melee and ranged will not change the challenge level because fighters already either bring along an ARCANE ARCHER or do without. Making non-arcane archers viable will make fighters more likely to INCLUDE archers like Tabby and other non-arcane archers. How is encouraging diversified groups a BAD thing?
Jimkaf,
To me, dying and losing my gold and some gear is not nearly as bad a feeling as seeing someone else dying and not being able to do anything about it, not even being able to try.
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I've briefly gone over Tabitha's biography. In my perception, you've made her a very social character, dealing with the coordination of events, loyalty to certain people, enjoys fashion and music, involved in love.
However, your insecurity about not being seen to be useful and not being able to deal damage to damage resistant creatures with a crossbow is a little contradictory? Are you also intending her to be a hunter/killer?
To me, dying and losing my gold and some gear is not nearly as bad a feeling as seeing someone else dying and not being able to do anything about it, not even being able to try.
Perhaps you should treat that as an IC issue of not being able to save your friends from certain death - part of the horror of the server, rather than taking it as an OOC offence because your character didn't win or save the day.
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Not being able to save the day is fine. Not even being able to TRY is not. You say "take it IC", but there is no IC reason why I should be tripping over +1 melee weapons and unable to find a +1 crossbow ever. This is NOT an IC issue, it's failure on the part of the dev team to treat all players equally.
I think it's fairly simple: everyone should be treated equally. Having an abundance of +1 melee weapons while having +1 bows be rare and +1 crossbows non-existent is NOT treating everyone equally. There's nothing complicated about that. I think I've successfully demonstrated that there's no REASON not to treat archers the same as melee in terms of available gear because even with the best gear in the world archers are always weaker than melee. The way I see it, what we have on this server is an unfair bias in favour of melee fighting characters that has NO game balance reasons to be here. I'm not asking for anything that the melee's don't already have in abundance. Not asking for special treatment, just asking for fair treatment.
In fact, since GMW works on melee and not ranged, it would be closer to fair if there were loads of ranged +1 and few melee +1. There's a viable game balance reason for bias, right there. The fact that it's the other way around here makes me angry, disgusted, and confused.
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Honestly this thread just seems like another one of this "there are some hard aspects of this server so i'm going to whine" rants to draw attention to certain difficult aspects of the server. Instead of complaining from an ooc perspective why not take this "problem" as an ic challenge to push you to find a bow that will suit your needs? It's HARDLY impossible seeing as how others have done it. I'm watching as you tear apart solutions people are offering and almost laughing at how ridiculous it's sounding. It seems as if you're either too stubborn to admit that maybe you're wrong, or too lazy to work for whatever it is that you desire your character to have.
Ravenloft isn't a server where you can log on, level up to a badass pc level in a few days and suddenly become a killing machine. It's about achieving things through roleplay and character dynamics. Whining about the weapons the server has to offer is completely ooc and in essence makes no sense to me especially since it seems that you're one and only goal is to become so powerful that you can take an archer into a dungeon and clear it all alone. Odd.
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Getting in before the lock here...
I currently playing a sylvan druid that focused on archery in the beggining. Without my animal summon to act as my melle and my bow +1 undead i would have died quite regularly. The first ju ju zombie would have handed me my butt without my dire wolf and bow i had to scrimp for. As a rogue or straight fighter/archer there would have been no way doing it alone. Now that said I had fogotten about the +1 bow mentioned earlyer, I think you will feel ok again once you have it green because you will be more effective. Until then you will just have to have the golf bag of bows for diferent situations. You mentioned how expensive it was at the camp, well never buy a weapon this way always get it by going to the player base merchants like the vardo or gotoku and rp getting it. Its way cheaper usually and it often leads to other rp. An example is my druid, she got her booty handed to her by vamps, ended up in rp with the morninglordians...one thing leads to anouther, and soon that useless bow of hers will matter very little. Crossbows straight up suck hard though until somewhat recently now I would say there about almost equal to bows, but bolth are definatly support weapons only in POTM.
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Reaper, please explain to me how I can "take it IC and find one" when it DOESNT EXIST ON THIS SERVER.
Also, you're absolutely right. I want to solo dungeons. That's why I chose rogue/bard archer. Because that's so uber, what with getting hit by attacks of opportunity, and not wearing any armor so that I can cast spells to heal other party members, and having low AB and few attacks per round, not to mention low hit points. Just so uber. Perfect for soloing. Yup, I designed me a perfect soloing machine.
(that was sarcasm, by the way, since you seem unable to comprehend anything I've written in this thread thus far.)
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[moderates]
Keep it clean and on topic please
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Kenrick
I know ranged are support weapons only. I designed my character to be a support character only. If I had a heavy crossbow +1 so that I could get past +1 DR, I'd be perfectly happy. I wouldn't mind not being able to get past +2 or +3 DR, because that's not as common. +1 DR, though, is FAR too common for me to be happy about being unable to help the people in my party against them, but I'm not asking for a special DM gift. I'm asking for additions to the loot tables, for everyone.
This isn't just about me, it's about having fair and equal treatment for ALL characters. This is an issue for the rogue who finds that the party already has a better rogue in it and feels a bit useless because she can't fight OR handle the locks and traps. This is for the mage who used all her spells buffing the melee, for the bard who prefers to save her spells for healing and buffing others instead of herself. None of them can fight as good as the melee's and thats fine, but that doesnt mean they shouldn't be able to fight AT ALL.
This is about having the same kind of +1 weapons for archers as we have for melee, pure and simple.
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Mm, when you look at things from the larger perspective, I am sure that this issue is nothing but a drop of water in the Universe of what PotM is all about. I doubt that this issue is crucial for the player's experience and enjoyment in PoTM.
Because watching some of the posts here, sure seems some are making it seem like it is.
Really, there's no need to get worked up over these little things - devs are watching, we are on top of these things, making 12 replies, each more emotionally charged than the previous, wont haste us changing things. There's priorities, this isn't one, when we see it as a significant issue, it will be looked at. Meanwhile, would be a good idea to suggest Crossbows, or ranged weapons for implementation on the dedicated thread.
Threads like this, when the posters make them spin into bigger issues, create their own drama for the players involved in posting in them. Detracts you from the game. Instead of being in game and roleplaying, you find yourself refreshing your browser to see who's the next noob you'll pwn with your next witty reply.
Then you frustrate, it becomes a bigger drama than it should be, you start hatin' everyone not agreeing with you. Then, you start gossippin' about that its Lame DM's Team fault, or 'Damn those Devs are clueless', and that, this might be the end of PoTM, Ruined forever.
Anyway, gonna give the thread a cool down. Will re-open it for discussion later. We'll be looking into it.
Cheers.