Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist

Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Aldarris on February 23, 2010, 02:15:56 AM

Title: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Aldarris on February 23, 2010, 02:15:56 AM
I thought our solution to the exhaustion system was to implement variables for casting spell per spell, although wouldn't be noticed unless casting repeatedly round after round, instead of having the script searching for action every heartbeat.

I like the new changes to the exhaustion system in that if you stand there long enough, the values go back to zero and you can work again, unlike before.

What I do not like is how quickly everyone is reaching exhaustion right now.

But hey, let's discuss.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: DM Nocturne on February 23, 2010, 02:22:05 AM
Let's not talk about exhaustion system again. I'm getting exhausted thinking about it.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Avatar6666 on February 23, 2010, 02:45:20 AM
Me as well I dont like it one bit and i am for removing it. but i am only a consumer of this server.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 23, 2010, 02:55:06 AM
I think people are generally being confused by the frequency of messages. I don't know if they have to be pulled, but it's only to give you a good feel of it. The exhaustion system has no effect on you until you receive the message saying "You are feeling exhausted", and not "You are starting to feel somewhat exhausted" or less. It's only when you notice the extra effects icons that there's any of it, and even then, the first stage of exhaustion is very mild.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Aldarris on February 23, 2010, 02:56:44 AM
That's what I'm trying to say however, is that the new messages are great, but the actual "you are feeling exhausted" is coming up a lot sooner than it used to.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 23, 2010, 03:07:24 AM
Alright, well, glad that's clear atleast.

As for the values, they are adjusted to a large amount of empirical data. It'll be my bold claim that everyone that takes their time to roleplay a bit while they walk through a dungeon will only end up exhausted if they have exceptionally long fights.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: HellsPanda on February 23, 2010, 03:32:37 AM
I don't see much trouble with the exhaustion system as it is, my fighter/rogue can pretty much keep fighting for ages no problem,
but I do wonder at the ease of removing the AB modifiers, is it supposed to be just quaff one quick lesser restoration potion, and the modifier is gone?
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Bad_Bud on February 23, 2010, 03:37:55 AM
Maybe people would be less confused if the messages went something like, "You are nearing exhaustion!" or "If you continue at this rate, you will soon become exhausted." instead of saying that the character is already partially exhausted.

That way there is just one clear state of 'exhaustion' and various stages of getting there, instead of various stages of actual exhaustion.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 23, 2010, 03:40:09 AM
Maybe people would be less confused if the messages went something like, "You are nearing exhaustion!" or "If you continue at this rate, you will soon become exhausted." instead of saying that the character is already partially exhausted.

That way there is just one clear state: 'exhaustion' and various stages of getting there, instead of various stages of actual exhaustion.

Not a bad idea.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Jotem on February 23, 2010, 09:27:13 AM
I do like the new Exaustion system, it has added to plenty of RP on my part, perhaps for when one reaches 'Very Exausted' Ac could suffer from it aswell.

Defending yourself when your ny on dead on your feet would be quite difficult i'd imagine.

Just an idea. :D
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 23, 2010, 10:23:06 AM
here's my problem with the exhaustion system since pretty much day one of its impliment.

Hope casts like eight spells and she's mildly exhausted? this to me makes no sense, but otherwise the system seems to be working just fine.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Avatar6666 on February 23, 2010, 12:19:29 PM
Same way with bera.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Aahz on February 23, 2010, 01:41:04 PM
here's my problem with the exhaustion system since pretty much day one of its impliment.

Hope casts like eight spells and she's mildly exhausted? this to me makes no sense, but otherwise the system seems to be working just fine.

I had the same experience with my cleric. I would cast my buffs and hit exhaustion penalties during the second group of monsters I encountered in a dungeon. I have no idea what the actual spell failure percentage is supposed to be at that first level of exhaustion but I never, EVER, was able to successfully cast a spell in combat once I got the penalty, not once. That is the major reason I abandoned playing my clerics. Huge frustration and OOC management required to accommodate the system. 

Another reason is  that you can do exactly the same things and become (and recover from being) exhausted at different and unpredictable rates.  As far as RP potential I just do not see any.  I RP being tired when it makes sense to me that my character's actions would make them tired.  I have never RP-ed being tired just because of this system and I never will. 

The developers have brought a lot of good things to the server that enhance roleplay, but game mechanics changes only seem to force the player into hyper-awareness of the rules and micro management.

It's really Ironic that on one hand we are told to keep things IC and that metagaming is "Evil" but yet are subjected to systems like this (and the morale system) that essentially force you to make your decisions based solely on how the game mechanics work.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Mcskinns on February 23, 2010, 02:24:19 PM
here's my problem with the exhaustion system since pretty much day one of its impliment.

Hope casts like eight spells and she's mildly exhausted? this to me makes no sense, but otherwise the system seems to be working just fine.

Channeling the power of your deity was never meant to be taken as lightly as it is in these games.  There are very few stories written about adventuring groups that stand around for ten minutes casting assorted buffing spells on themselves and everyone else around them, then having people request ones they do not have, or cannot cast themselves from others in the group.  That to me is as disruptive to immersion as anything else when a PC starts a long string of buffs right before a battle.  To me it trivializes the gods gifts.  The exhaustion factor in my mind is just a warning that the gods feel you are abusing your power.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Heretic on February 23, 2010, 02:30:34 PM
Yeah, what Mcskinns said, its a challenge trying to have the best of both worlds, can only do so with feedback and keeping an open mind about things. Things likewise, wont be perfect, but its an on-going process. Giving up on the system or doomsaying it, wont get us anywhere, but it will just lead to further frustrations.

Perhaps if those spell failures reported could be expanded so Soren takes a look?
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on February 24, 2010, 10:20:37 AM
maybe i should clarify i dont have a direct PROBLEM with getting exhausted by spell usage thats fine, i guess my gripe way i see it is when you get higher lvl it should to me stand to reason that a higher level caster would get less exhausted by a string of casting then say that lvl 2 caster i guess thats might gripe

that all said, though i dont mind it, i pause for a few moments do some rping about someones past, or ask how there doing after a fight etc etc and usually by then in an ooc sense things are back to normal
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Bad_Bud on February 25, 2010, 04:18:06 PM
It really is messed up right now.  I buffed my cleric's constitution to 17, and he got exhausted rather quickly.  I minimized the game and browsed the internet for about five minutes and came back.  He was already fully exhausted before he finished killing two snow golems.  He must have only been fighting for about a minute.

I'm having a similar experience with my other characters, too.  I'm getting exhausted during the first fights in dungeons and things.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on February 26, 2010, 03:49:59 AM
It really is messed up right now.  I buffed my cleric's constitution to 17, and he got exhausted rather quickly.  I minimized the game and browsed the internet for about five minutes and came back.  He was already fully exhausted before he finished killing two snow golems.  He must have only been fighting for about a minute.

I'm having a similar experience with my other characters, too.  I'm getting exhausted during the first fights in dungeons and things.

What characters are you playing? If you want, I could try to catch you in game and do some more specific evaluation.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Delete Me on February 26, 2010, 04:37:07 AM
It really is messed up right now.  I buffed my cleric's constitution to 17, and he got exhausted rather quickly.  I minimized the game and browsed the internet for about five minutes and came back.  He was already fully exhausted before he finished killing two snow golems.  He must have only been fighting for about a minute.

I'm having a similar experience with my other characters, too.  I'm getting exhausted during the first fights in dungeons and things.

I noticed this.

Im unhappy with the exhaustion system, but thats me.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Bad_Bud on February 26, 2010, 06:24:31 AM
It really is messed up right now.  I buffed my cleric's constitution to 17, and he got exhausted rather quickly.  I minimized the game and browsed the internet for about five minutes and came back.  He was already fully exhausted before he finished killing two snow golems.  He must have only been fighting for about a minute.

I'm having a similar experience with my other characters, too.  I'm getting exhausted during the first fights in dungeons and things.

What characters are you playing? If you want, I could try to catch you in game and do some more specific evaluation.

Well, the two that were getting exhausted died in freak accidents, and they were Suhaib and Frank Alexandru.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: marlewebber on February 26, 2010, 09:14:22 AM
Recent update.   PC with base constitution of 6 pretty much unable to avoid exhaustion in any combat scenerio.

I know that's a PC that should be affected by this moreso, but honestly, it feels like all I'm doing is dealing with the exhaustion system.  It tends to overshadow any other in game system, at least for this character.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: LoLJohnFerro on February 26, 2010, 09:19:47 AM
Well if shes sick and with low con you would think she wouldnt be fighting?
But if she has to perhaps you cut out buffs you dont need before combat, or maybe walk around rather then run, Or used a ranged weapon.
All I can think of.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: mayvind on February 26, 2010, 11:15:20 AM
I kinda like current system, with warning about before hand that you will be exhausted. Maybe adjust the warning text abit though.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: DM Macabre on February 26, 2010, 12:53:40 PM
I must say, from the view times I tested it with my player characters, I really LOVE the exhaustion system! It adds so much on the reality and fear factor. It's plain awesome! :thumbup:
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Avatar6666 on February 26, 2010, 01:40:58 PM
I realy dislike the exhaustion system, All the message flying up now and you have to watch what combats you do before you get exhausted. All this takes away from the fun of RP and pulls me right out of the emersion of the game and trying to have fun. :bonk:
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Verelius Magnus on February 26, 2010, 07:38:40 PM
The exhaustion system seems like a flawed concept to me, I assume it was put into place to try and stop powergaming, but who do you think is more capable of working around a simple script?  Someone who understands how the NWN engine works inside and out, or your average Joe Schmoe Roleplayer?  It's the latter person who is truly punished by exhaustion.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: WildPirate13 on February 27, 2010, 09:32:24 AM
Reduce it by 40% its a good idea but its a bit much.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: ThAnswr on February 27, 2010, 11:36:30 AM
I realy dislike the exhaustion system, All the message flying up now and you have to watch what combats you do before you get exhausted. All this takes away from the fun of RP and pulls me right out of the emersion of the game and trying to have fun. :bonk:

Me too.  It's just one more annoying pop-up message that adds nothing to the game. 
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Little Lotte on February 27, 2010, 11:52:07 AM
I lawled last night as Anya got exhausted while doing alchemy. Thought that was kinda funny.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: LoLJohnFerro on February 28, 2010, 09:35:36 PM
lol I got it walking threw the woods and my char had 17 con xD
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: WildPirate13 on March 01, 2010, 12:43:25 PM
Hrmmm...

 Now I am really bad for scanning a forum entry.

 My belief: Exhaustion system does add more to the game.
 Problem: The human body and the mix of fantasy settings leads to a bitch of a coding job.

  Exhaustion from mental to phys have a great number of factors.

  The #'s for CON/STR/DEX are great of course.

  Combat should in reality have a high exhuastion rate alot going on in that time frame... on any system.
  Running: How long does it take to run a marathon?
   Spell casting: Ummm alot of numbers to run... and its very open to interp.
   
 Good idea hard to do and impossible to keep everyone happy.

 Me,reduce it by 40% if thats not to hard to do.


POTM is still the best RP server for ravenloft  you can come across right now.

Now gimme exp LMAO

Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: jimkaf on March 01, 2010, 02:07:26 PM
Out of curiosity and because I can't remember whether it's been mentioned, do monsters/NPCs follow the exhaustion system as well? And if not, shouldn't they?
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: HellsPanda on March 01, 2010, 02:39:19 PM
sure that would be more trouble than its worth, and no they dont
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Dashru on March 01, 2010, 02:44:26 PM
Out of curiosity and because I can't remember whether it's been mentioned, do monsters/NPCs follow the exhaustion system as well? And if not, shouldn't they?

Well, undead don't have constitution scores and never get tired or exhausted. And lycantrophes, in hybrid form, have beastly stamina--so neither are relevant.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: jimkaf on March 01, 2010, 03:28:42 PM
No biggy. Thanks for the answer. Just to clarify I meant NPCs and monsters in general, not Monstrous PCs. :)
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: KoopaFanatic on March 01, 2010, 04:23:42 PM
PC or NPC, it's a pretty good excuse ;)

(On a related, though perhaps way too off-topic, note, has anyone else ever thought that druids in wild shape forms should be immune from cold checks, like NPC animals seem to be?)
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Kendric98 on March 02, 2010, 01:03:58 AM
Vladimir ran from the outskirts to the east gate and got the exhausted message, this was very emasculating for him.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Aldarris on March 02, 2010, 01:58:29 AM
If anything, the system needs to be toned down for such simple things as jogging, afterall...PCs jog in NwN.  They don't run.  It would be awesome if we could implement a running mode, but as it is right now PCs always jog when not in the effects of haste or expeditious retreat.

And why should they get so exhausted from that?

Some of these guys with high strength and constitution scores would rival or outdue some of the top athletes in our world today.

I can tell you right now, I could  jog from one gate to the other in Vallaki and not be exhausted enough that my performance would suffer.  And if I could do it, I'd expect Roland or Leon to do even more.

It's just kind of sad I see things my PCs train themselves to do suddenly to have the "You are exhausted" message pop up after 5 minutes of fighting or jogging or whatever.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Zedrik on March 02, 2010, 03:41:15 PM
PC or NPC, it's a pretty good excuse ;)

(On a related, though perhaps way too off-topic, note, has anyone else ever thought that druids in wild shape forms should be immune from cold checks, like NPC animals seem to be?)

I have said this repeatedly to people.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Soren / Zarathustra217 on March 21, 2010, 07:23:01 AM
There's been some tweaks to the system lately that should make it a bit more reliable. Those of you that have experienced a lot of anomalies, have you noticed any change in that as of recent?
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: respawnaholic on March 21, 2010, 07:32:32 AM
There's been some tweaks to the system lately that should make it a bit more reliable. Those of you that have experienced a lot of anomalies, have you noticed any change in that as of recent?

It does seem to have toned down some. Good thing. It was getting really irritating going into exhaustion during the first fight of the first room you enter.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Springer on March 21, 2010, 07:51:47 AM
It stopped quick switching. I mean I was becoming exhausted and turning back to normal again in the matter of few seconds. Now it takes some time to get rid of exhaustion.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Kendric98 on March 21, 2010, 11:19:04 PM
I like it the way it is now.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Thoraion on March 23, 2010, 04:00:28 AM
But the really idiotic aspect remains - exhaustion has no effect on intervalls between resting.
For me, the primary experience with exhaustion is that i spend much time standing around doing absolutely nothing until either exhaustion wears off or i can rest again. That kind of superposes the positive aspects for me.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: DM Tarokka on March 23, 2010, 04:11:14 AM
I feel to see the variables in this. Not complaining really, but having am un-encumbered ranger with constitution 14 getting slightly exhausted after being running for 2 maps is a bit too much in my view.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Mcskinns on March 23, 2010, 12:52:15 PM
I feel to see the variables in this. Not complaining really, but having am un-encumbered ranger with constitution 14 getting slightly exhausted after being running for 2 maps is a bit too much in my view.

This could be problematic for certain races as well, considering the Athasian Elf, who spends days at a time running across the sandy landscape from oasis to oasis only stopping for water or a short rest here and there.  Suddenly they are no better than a fat human trogging through three screens of open countryside.  While I don't oppose the system so much, it can be kind of off-putting in some circumstances, especially if your trying to remain true to your native roots in roleplaing your PC.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: Lockleed on March 23, 2010, 04:37:39 PM
I like it the way it is currently.  It still pops up, but it doesn't -instantly- pop up.  I took a low level PC with 10 constitution out against bandits, fought and beat about six of them, and was exhausted.  Compared to the way it was before, where chances are the first fight I'd of been exhausted halfway through, what we have now seems a better balance. 

As for the PCs with endurance running as a background, namely barbarians or the aforementioned Athasian elves, perhaps give them a bonus on their constitution that only applies toward exhaustion.  Not sure the exact dynamics of that system, so can't say for sure what, just something reasonable.  Remember though that they already cover more ground than an equivalent constitution character thanks to barbarian fast movement and the athasian elves natural sprinting ability.
Title: Re: Exhaustion system.
Post by: jimkaf on March 23, 2010, 05:13:49 PM
I had a little problem with exhaustion system at first. Since the latest changes I've only found it very reasonable and working perfectly well. I have no idea of it's inner workings but it seems to work just fine now.
 :thumbup: