Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist

Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Jana on July 30, 2009, 06:27:41 PM

Title: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Jana on July 30, 2009, 06:27:41 PM
Liz is overpowered. This is for a few reasons:


My suggestion is, let her raise people who are level 5 and below. Anyone else should be made to respawn or find a cleric PC. This will also solve the problem of people running into the temple getting healed, run out, run back in and get healed and repeat this cycle over and over again. Which personally I don't think she heals people so they can run out and get hurt agian. Its probably a form of ignoring an NPC or worse exploiting a NPC.

Also lets remember is this is ONE woman. She shouldn't be able to cast heal 50 times a day, not greater restore 30 times a day and sure as heck not raise dead 20 times a day. The poor woman needs time to sleep and eat and pray.

In a paper and pen game I played magic is much more common than it is here and yet someone coming back from the dead is a huge deal. In addistion most temples will heal you once with cure moderate wounds because most clerics are no higher than level 6. I'm not saying it should be that extreme here, but it would add a lot more caution if people don't know where their next raise dead is coming from.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ducky445544 on July 30, 2009, 06:45:24 PM
1000 gold or more for a level 14 or so raise- now that's alot of pennies.  :lol:
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: shadymerchant on July 30, 2009, 06:51:50 PM
I think you underestimate the impact Liz has. This server has a huge population, including new characters and low level characters. The server environment is rather harsh and the mortality rate is high for them. Not to mention outcast populations, like calibans, which are small isolated character groups that typically don't have a cleric within them. Add to that a general lack of clerics with the spell level to raise, and you are creating an environment where folks spend a lot more time being dead. I've died quite a few times in the past few weeks with my level 1 - 5 character and many of those times I've had to wait an hour or more before any clerics with the capility to raise logged in. We might have a lot of clerics, but they may not be leveled, and they may not be interested in playing a server role of raising dead people. The role you are essentially asking them to take up. Having an active responsibility to do it.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Budly on July 30, 2009, 06:53:15 PM
The thing is, it is rather abusive to run up and down all the time in the crypt for healing or pay that really low sum of coin when people have hundreds of thousands of gold :)
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: dae24 on July 30, 2009, 06:59:06 PM
some good points in there.

considering the problem with the undead in their basement, i am sure she would be willing to heal anyone who helps in that cause. as for random people walking in, maybe not as much, but really its not the nature of healers to refuse healing anyone. also, consider she doesnt adventure so she is more or less resting any time she isnt casting.

i can see where you are coming from though, so here are some ideas

how about adding knuckle costs to her other services?

heal= 1 knuckle.
restore = 3 knuckles
tonic = 5 knuckles (as normal)
raise = 1 knuckle per level + gold cost
resurect = 5 knuckles per level +gold cost

i think this makes things a little interesting. if you need to raise or resurect someone you may end up with a side quest of clearing undead for knuckles...lowbies might also be able to make a little coin selling knuckles to higher level players that just want a quick res for their friend.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on July 30, 2009, 07:00:02 PM
personally i see liz is fine as it is...however...I think if there was a rotation at night of another npc to replace liz and then liz replaces that npc in the day add more dynamics to the server
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Jana on July 30, 2009, 07:09:18 PM
There's always the respawn option. A level 6 respawn won't lose a level. Now a level 12 or 14 respawn? Yeah that'll cost you a level usually. But the question then is you've been around a LONG time. Can you honestly say you haven't made a friend with at least one cleric? Are you saying a that point a 1200 or 1400 gold raise is really going to affect you? The gold is only meaningful for low levels which is why I suggest they still pay. For high levels? Jana has 10,000 fang on her and has for the  last 2 months. I concider it pocket change.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: peluscious on July 30, 2009, 07:11:44 PM
If she asked for knuckles, they we would have high levels going in the crypts, having no fun at it, and robbing it from lowbies.
No advantage from my point of view.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: failed.bard on July 30, 2009, 07:13:14 PM
  I've lost a level respawning at both 4th and 5th levels with characters before.  I would rather wait four hours for the raise then essentially lose a week or more of playing time put into a character.  For characters with an ECL, dropping 5th to 4th could cost them a months worth.

  I think the raising and ressurection should be there, but the greater restoration should be a normal restoration.  She'll restore levels, but that missing limb needs a PC to fix then.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Jana on July 30, 2009, 07:15:49 PM
She'll restore levels, but that missing limb needs a PC to fix then.

Thats really the whole point I'm tryingto make. With a weakened NPC the PCs have to step up and work. Its no different than NPC merchants no longer selling healing potions because we wanted to have a player market for herbists.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: LawfulJoe on July 30, 2009, 07:25:00 PM
It seem to be missing the money making boat. I am level 14 and have under 20000 fang and never had over 30000. Purhaps it is becuae I do not have countless hours to spend doing crafting and prefer to spend it RPing or adventuring...

Anyway, keep in mind the mechanics behind the ECL hit on Some Subraces. If you force them to respawn and take the xp hit, then you have successfuly made the advancement even slower for there race.

As unrealistic as it may be, for the game harmony, I would nto change her.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ThAnswr on July 30, 2009, 07:33:45 PM
personally i see liz is fine as it is...however...I think if there was a rotation at night of another npc to replace liz and then liz replaces that npc in the day add more dynamics to the server

Calor has replaced Liz on several occasions.  It was a fun evening if a bit strange.   ;)

Quote
they may not be interested in playing a server role of raising dead people.

With the newly nerf'ed GS, better plan on dying in a safe place. 
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: puckwolf on July 30, 2009, 07:34:29 PM
I personally don't see much a problem with Liz either.  Most of those people who run back and forth between the crypts and the cleric are lower levels anyways.  In terms of charging knuckles for healing, we'd end up with knuckle farmers abusing an area that's already over dungeoned, nor would it make much sense icly for an ML cleric to refuse someone for healing.

In terms of it not making sense for one cleric to cast a hundred heals a day, ideally I would think there'd be several clerics rotating the position with Lizuca (but that would probably over complicate things).  As Shady mentioned, it wouldn't really be fair to rely entirely on player clerics either, who would then be constantly harassed for raises while on the other end dead players wait hours for help.  There's only so far we can push realism before a game becomes more stressful and less fun.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Budly on July 30, 2009, 07:38:24 PM
Remove Liz overpowered healing

Solution

Die less, do not walk out by night, feel the horrors of the core.

It's not a freaking godess of healing we are talking about guys and gals.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ThAnswr on July 30, 2009, 07:47:31 PM
Quote
There's only so far we can push realism before a game becomes more stressful and less fun.

I had to see this again.   :thumbup:
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Budly on July 30, 2009, 07:50:08 PM
I think we could push a little bit more to make it a bit more harsher then it is. We do not want a scout camp in the woods learning how to tie stuff and when a bug bites you, you run of to the nurses cabin  :lol:

Well two sides of the coin! Cannot have both sides or have both and it all be pretty pretty weird.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ducky445544 on July 30, 2009, 08:28:04 PM
Yep. And, I looked it up- 100,000 pennies... Time to check the ol piggy bank. :)

ANYWAY- back on topic- What's the huge problem with this anyway? As stated, it's mostly the lower levels who die anyway.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ThAnswr on July 30, 2009, 08:36:05 PM
I think we could push a little bit more to make it a bit more harsher then it is. We do not want a scout camp in the woods learning how to tie stuff and when a bug bites you, you run of to the nurses cabin  :lol:

Well two sides of the coin! Cannot have both sides or have both and it all be pretty pretty weird.

Here's how you can make the game "harsher".  For yourself, that is:  Refuse a rez if someone offers to take you to Liz.  Or refuse a rez all together and perm yourself.  It's really quite simple.  Any takers now because I haven't seen any so far.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: peluscious on July 30, 2009, 08:48:03 PM
Here's how you can make the game "harsher".  For yourself, that is:  Refuse a rez if someone offers to take you to Liz.  Or refuse a rez all together and perm yourself.  It's really quite simple.  Any takers now because I haven't seen any so far.

Wow. That solves everything. Great idea!
Way easier than asking for a change of rules and scripts.
I'm not a taker, but that solves all the complaints.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ThAnswr on July 30, 2009, 08:48:50 PM
Here's how you can make the game "harsher".  For yourself, that is:  Refuse a rez if someone offers to take you to Liz.  Or refuse a rez all together and perm yourself.  It's really quite simple.  Any takers now because I haven't seen any so far.

Wow. That solves everything. Great idea!
Way easier than asking for a change of rules and scripts.
I'm not a taker, but that solves all the complaints.

My point exactly.   :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: failed.bard on July 30, 2009, 09:19:15 PM
  Swapping Lizuca's greater restoration for the normal restoration, and changing heal to cure critical would have very little impact on low level characters, and would make more sense for her to be handing out freely.  If Liz has healing domain, it would be an empowered cure critical, which is enough for most any character 4th level and under.
  I also think there should be a pause in the convo before she heals people.  I see quite a few people run in, get healed, and run out, without being in the temple 5 seconds total.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: dae24 on July 30, 2009, 09:44:27 PM
now THAT is a problem. today i saw someone use this in the middle of pvp. oops im near death so ill run through liz's drive through express healing service. come in the side door, and he probably got healed before anyone else could make it through the area transition.

+1 for a pause just for that reason.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: peluscious on July 30, 2009, 09:57:37 PM
now THAT is a problem. today i saw someone use this in the middle of pvp. oops im near death so ill run through liz's drive through express healing service. come in the side door, and he probably got healed before anyone else could make it through the area transition.

+1 for a pause just for that reason.

That is a problem. But it's not Lizuca's fault.
Leave her as it is.
The solution to that situation is to send a tell to the player and explain to him that what he's doing is awful.
Probably wouldn't even need a screeny.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: puckwolf on July 30, 2009, 10:01:24 PM
Definitely, running inside to get healed during a pvp situation is *uncool* and poor gaming etiquette
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Kung Fu Orc on July 31, 2009, 12:14:19 AM
This has been brought up before, in these exact words as a matter of fact. The consensus then was it's a game, not a simulator.

People who drive through heal should be dealt with but leave the res system alone, it's necessary. Please, no S&M roleplay.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: shadymerchant on July 31, 2009, 12:26:03 AM
 Swapping Lizuca's greater restoration for the normal restoration, and changing heal to cure critical would have very little impact on low level characters, and would make more sense for her to be handing out freely.  If Liz has healing domain, it would be an empowered cure critical, which is enough for most any character 4th level and under.
  I also think there should be a pause in the convo before she heals people.  I see quite a few people run in, get healed, and run out, without being in the temple 5 seconds total.

The problem with a critical heal as opposed to a full heal is that then you're half healed infront of Liz. So naturally you trigger the dialogue and continue the process until you're fully healed.

And level drain cannot be restored with a normal restoration to my knowledge. It requires a greater restoration. Liz is the servers answer to making POTM life less frustrating. People use her a lot because she's a pretty good answer to it. Changing it, for all intents and purposes, is saying "let's frustrate folks a bit more so my experience is better." This is a tough server as it is, and the roleplay is amazing in many of the cases. Focus on that.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: failed.bard on July 31, 2009, 12:31:12 AM
Lesser restoration only restores stat drains, removes the effects of tiredness, and a few other exploitable things I won't mention here.
Restoration restores level drain, in addition to what lesser restoration does.  At least, the restoration potions do.
Greater restoration restores a target to pristine condition, including restoring missing limbs, and NWN wise, removing curses, and all other non DP negative effects.

Normal restoration would be fine.  Curses shouldn't be easy to remove, and missing limbs should at least be a minor inconvenience.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ThAnswr on July 31, 2009, 12:48:39 AM
Lesser restoration only restores stat drains, removes the effects of tiredness, and a few other exploitable things I won't mention here.
Restoration restores level drain, in addition to what lesser restoration does.  At least, the restoration potions do.
Greater restoration restores a target to pristine condition, including restoring missing limbs, and NWN wise, removing curses, and all other non DP negative effects.

Normal restoration would be fine.  Curses shouldn't be easy to remove, and missing limbs should at least be a minor inconvenience.

I don't think Greater Restoration restores limbs.  And why would someone lose a limb in the course of everyday play? 
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: LawfulJoe on July 31, 2009, 01:28:28 AM
Lesser restoration only restores stat drains, removes the effects of tiredness, and a few other exploitable things I won't mention here.
Restoration restores level drain, in addition to what lesser restoration does.  At least, the restoration potions do.
Greater restoration restores a target to pristine condition, including restoring missing limbs, and NWN wise, removing curses, and all other non DP negative effects.

Normal restoration would be fine.  Curses shouldn't be easy to remove, and missing limbs should at least be a minor inconvenience.

I don't think Greater Restoration restores limbs.  And why would someone lose a limb in the course of everyday play? 
I think you need a regenerate to restore severed limbs
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: arrmuth on July 31, 2009, 01:31:28 AM
On a Tolkien server i used  to play on when you died you spent x amount of time in the everafter.You had a randomized percentage of being rezzed and it  was checked every ingame hour. When your number came up  you respawned at the nearest temple,safe place,etc etc..with rezz sickness.  
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: arrmuth on July 31, 2009, 01:35:08 AM
Quote
There's only so far we can push realism before a game becomes more stressful and less fun.

I had to see this again.   :thumbup:

 :thumbup:
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: arrmuth on July 31, 2009, 01:37:45 AM
personally i see liz is fine as it is...however...I think if there was a rotation at night of another npc to replace liz and then liz replaces that npc in the day add more dynamics to the server

Calor has replaced Liz on several occasions.  It was a fun evening if a bit strange.   ;)

Quote
they may not be interested in playing a server role of raising dead people.

With the newly nerf'ed GS, better plan on dying in a safe place.  
What changes were made to GS? I cant seem to find the info on what was changed.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: failed.bard on July 31, 2009, 02:43:56 AM
Lesser restoration only restores stat drains, removes the effects of tiredness, and a few other exploitable things I won't mention here.
Restoration restores level drain, in addition to what lesser restoration does.  At least, the restoration potions do.
Greater restoration restores a target to pristine condition, including restoring missing limbs, and NWN wise, removing curses, and all other non DP negative effects.

Normal restoration would be fine.  Curses shouldn't be easy to remove, and missing limbs should at least be a minor inconvenience.

I don't think Greater Restoration restores limbs.  And why would someone lose a limb in the course of everyday play? 
I think you need a regenerate to restore severed limbs

  Back when attacks by PC monsters were more common, most people that were mauled but left alive simply walked into the temple, got a greater restoration, and pretended nothing had ever happened.  It was pretty disheartening, really.
  The spell doesn't actually specifically say it restores missing limb, is says it removes all physical ailments and restores to full health, I believe.  Considering it shouldn't resore lost HPs even (another random spell change by Bioware), it would be nice to have a DMs opinion on if it would restore lost limbs or night.  Bearing in mind, of course, that DMs have used it with Lizuca in the past to restore lost limbs on PCs.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ThAnswr on July 31, 2009, 02:58:34 AM
personally i see liz is fine as it is...however...I think if there was a rotation at night of another npc to replace liz and then liz replaces that npc in the day add more dynamics to the server

Calor has replaced Liz on several occasions.  It was a fun evening if a bit strange.   ;)

Quote
they may not be interested in playing a server role of raising dead people.

With the newly nerf'ed GS, better plan on dying in a safe place.  
What changes were made to GS? I cant seem to find the info on what was changed.


Apparently, there is no official announcement.  Some changes were discussed in a few posts in a thread:

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=17139.msg196732#msg196732

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=17139.msg196754#msg196754

http://www.nwnravenloft.com/forum/index.php?topic=17139.msg196725#msg196725

Somewhere in that discussion is the changes that were made to GS. 
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ThAnswr on July 31, 2009, 03:01:26 AM
Lesser restoration only restores stat drains, removes the effects of tiredness, and a few other exploitable things I won't mention here.
Restoration restores level drain, in addition to what lesser restoration does.  At least, the restoration potions do.
Greater restoration restores a target to pristine condition, including restoring missing limbs, and NWN wise, removing curses, and all other non DP negative effects.

Normal restoration would be fine.  Curses shouldn't be easy to remove, and missing limbs should at least be a minor inconvenience.

I don't think Greater Restoration restores limbs.  And why would someone lose a limb in the course of everyday play? 
I think you need a regenerate to restore severed limbs

  Back when attacks by PC monsters were more common, most people that were mauled but left alive simply walked into the temple, got a greater restoration, and pretended nothing had ever happened.  It was pretty disheartening, really.
  The spell doesn't actually specifically say it restores missing limb, is says it removes all physical ailments and restores to full health, I believe.  Considering it shouldn't resore lost HPs even (another random spell change by Bioware), it would be nice to have a DMs opinion on if it would restore lost limbs or night.  Bearing in mind, of course, that DMs have used it with Lizuca in the past to restore lost limbs on PCs.

Whenever there was a case of restoring lost limbs, it was always with the combo of Greater Restoration AND Regeneration. 

And whatever else made for nice fireworks and pretty lights. 
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Budly on July 31, 2009, 03:46:40 AM
I think we could push a little bit more to make it a bit more harsher then it is. We do not want a scout camp in the woods learning how to tie stuff and when a bug bites you, you run of to the nurses cabin  :lol:

Well two sides of the coin! Cannot have both sides or have both and it all be pretty pretty weird.

Here's how you can make the game "harsher".  For yourself, that is:  Refuse a rez if someone offers to take you to Liz.  Or refuse a rez all together and perm yourself.  It's really quite simple.  Any takers now because I haven't seen any so far.

I do not see how that be useful. It's like living on the street and saying no to geting a big house for free.

Seemingly people want a Mary sue server with flowers and 24/7 disease and wound fix up on the spot. I sure would love that in real life. I am both richer and more healthy in game on my charachters then IRL, and its supposed to be a setting with Werewolfs and Vampires?  :lol:
Title: Re: Death realm and Liz the healbot
Post by: hugolino on July 31, 2009, 04:26:09 AM
"On a Tolkien server i used  to play on when you died you spent x amount of time in the everafter.You had a randomized percentage of being rezzed and it  was checked every ingame hour. When your number came up  you respawned at the nearest temple,safe place,etc etc..with rezz sickness."

I like that idea better than our current system, but I'm biased... One of my characters rarely is resurrected by anyone and so is forced to respawn after nearly all of his deaths. Perhaps not coincidentally he rarely dies any more despite only being level 6, but he manages that by excessive caution and risk avoidance (especially when DMs are around).

I should also note that, due to frequent respawning in the past, his level advancement has been quite slow, and -- due to his current wariness -- continues to be so.

EDIT: Spoke to soon. Just died. Yay!  Respawn. :(  But at least my weapon didn't drop.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Vespertilio on July 31, 2009, 04:26:31 AM
I've rp'd regeneration as a ritualistic procedure mixed with some surgery on one occasion thus far.  It was to repair a rather disturbing wooden barrel segment fused with flesh to create a lung. That's the sort of side effects that happen when mad dok in the drain brings a pc back to life.  It was pure rp and there's really no need in my opinion for an npc change to force what already exists on the server.

  On the issue of running at near death for a full heal and dashing back out to leap back into the fray in a matter of seconds, well, poor gaming etiquette is just that, and there's no script that can change something which resides within the player, not the game.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Vokan on July 31, 2009, 05:40:15 AM
On the topic of Regeneration of limbs - generally, you need the limb itself and re-attach it with a regeneration/healing spell. That's usually how it works in D&D. So, say you got your head chopped off in combat, you'd need your head, and your body, and stick 'em together and heal. Same goes for arms, legs, etc, unless by miraculous resurrection, which, by my understanding, can reform a body from ashes.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Zarathustra217 on July 31, 2009, 06:33:47 AM
I generally agree to the sentiments that her role in the gameplay warrants that she can be excepted for the normal spell-casting limits. But I do like the idea of Liz having a night-replacement, might look into that.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Corvus on July 31, 2009, 06:49:27 AM
 :ohnoes:  OMFG  Liz should get Unlimited Greater Ruin   :wakka: to kill everything evil! LOOOOL!    :sugoi: 



 :wtf:



... yeah I havent really slept propperly for in like 4-5 days. Anywhooo, I think she's fine as she is now, just add a replacement for the night-shift  :_Nod__by_Xrodias:
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Aahz on July 31, 2009, 09:29:02 AM
On the topic of Regeneration of limbs - generally, you need the limb itself and re-attach it with a regeneration/healing spell. That's usually how it works in D&D. So, say you got your head chopped off in combat, you'd need your head, and your body, and stick 'em together and heal. Same goes for arms, legs, etc, unless by miraculous resurrection, which, by my understanding, can reform a body from ashes.

I was under the impression that you did not need the limb. Regeneration would just re-grow the appendage. Getting your head removed however would require a resurrection spell. Regeneration would not work on a head (or a dead body for that matter) and I do not believe that Raise dead will work unless the major parts of the body are intact.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: vlowe72 on July 31, 2009, 09:43:14 AM
From personal experience... Liz was unable to regenerate an eye by herself, we had to call in several high level clerics to get it taken care of.  DM event, granted, but still...

Here's an idea...  After Liz does some high level healing say X amount of HP or restore or what not, she has to go and pray and recover for a while.  That would slow down the "healing express train" for a while, but not eliminate it all together.

I tell you, the few times that Liz has gone awol, it's pretty amusing to watch all the pc's milling about the temple singing the song of laments.  "No healing for us.  Woe is me!"

Then someone like Nonna steps up to the plate.  Hilarity ensues.  :)

I think the best RP comes about when you take something that's been a certain way forever and change it a bit.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ThAnswr on July 31, 2009, 10:27:38 AM
I think we could push a little bit more to make it a bit more harsher then it is. We do not want a scout camp in the woods learning how to tie stuff and when a bug bites you, you run of to the nurses cabin  :lol:

Well two sides of the coin! Cannot have both sides or have both and it all be pretty pretty weird.

Here's how you can make the game "harsher".  For yourself, that is:  Refuse a rez if someone offers to take you to Liz.  Or refuse a rez all together and perm yourself.  It's really quite simple.  Any takers now because I haven't seen any so far.

I do not see how that be useful. It's like living on the street and saying no to geting a big house for free.

Seemingly people want a Mary sue server with flowers and 24/7 disease and wound fix up on the spot. I sure would love that in real life. I am both richer and more healthy in game on my charachters then IRL, and its supposed to be a setting with Werewolfs and Vampires?  :lol:

You want harsh?  Show us how it works.   :P
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ducky445544 on July 31, 2009, 10:31:59 AM
From personal experience... Liz was unable to regenerate an eye by herself, we had to call in several high level clerics to get it taken care of.  DM event, granted, but still...

Here's an idea...  After Liz does some high level healing say X amount of HP or restore or what not, she has to go and pray and recover for a while.  That would slow down the "healing express train" for a while, but not eliminate it all together.

I tell you, the few times that Liz has gone awol, it's pretty amusing to watch all the pc's milling about the temple singing the song of laments.  "No healing for us.  Woe is me!"

Then someone like Nonna steps up to the plate.  Hilarity ensues.  :)

I think the best RP comes about when you take something that's been a certain way forever and change it a bit.

Ahh, yes... Good times.  :lol:

Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Budly on July 31, 2009, 11:26:03 AM
I think we could push a little bit more to make it a bit more harsher then it is. We do not want a scout camp in the woods learning how to tie stuff and when a bug bites you, you run of to the nurses cabin  :lol:

Well two sides of the coin! Cannot have both sides or have both and it all be pretty pretty weird.

Here's how you can make the game "harsher".  For yourself, that is:  Refuse a rez if someone offers to take you to Liz.  Or refuse a rez all together and perm yourself.  It's really quite simple.  Any takers now because I haven't seen any so far.

I do not see how that be useful. It's like living on the street and saying no to geting a big house for free.

Seemingly people want a Mary sue server with flowers and 24/7 disease and wound fix up on the spot. I sure would love that in real life. I am both richer and more healthy in game on my charachters then IRL, and its supposed to be a setting with Werewolfs and Vampires?  :lol:

You want harsh?  Show us how it works.   :P

Im not going to show thing on my own, if no one will care or help out. I myself, Im only a player and I cannot make changes cept make a charachter who can try to spread some horror but it will just end up dead by the legion of christmas tree's :D
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ThAnswr on July 31, 2009, 11:28:34 AM
I generally agree to the sentiments that her role in the gameplay warrants that she can be excepted for the normal spell-casting limits. But I do like the idea of Liz having a night-replacement, might look into that.

That's actually a great idea.  It would throw a little wrinkle into the game where one is needed. Things get stale and you have to goose them up once in while.

However, I would take it a few steps further:

***Have an npc replacement for Liz only part of the time.   Let there be times when a pc has to step up to the plate and perfom Liz's functions.  It has fostered some fun RP in the past. 

***Lock the doors to the Ladies Rest at midnight and open again at 6AM.  The fact is, most little towns roll up the streets at night.

My little suggestions for making the POTM world a better place.   :lol:

Quote
Im not going to show thing on my own, if no one will care or help out. I myself, Im only a player and I cannot make changes cept make a charachter who can try to spread some horror but it will just end up dead by the legion of christmas tree's

But you'd go out with a bang.   :lol:
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Rex on July 31, 2009, 11:37:23 AM
I'd settle for a timer between NPC cleric castings, just to cull down that god awful annoying "Sprint to Liz at Near Dead get Healed Rest and Return to the Fight!" garbage.  Night replacement would be interesting.

~Rex
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on July 31, 2009, 11:54:55 AM
I generally agree to the sentiments that her role in the gameplay warrants that she can be excepted for the normal spell-casting limits. But I do like the idea of Liz having a night-replacement, might look into that.

That's actually a great idea.  It would throw a little wrinkle into the game where one is needed. Things get stale and you have to goose them up once in while.

However, I would take it a few steps further:

***Have an npc replacement for Liz only part of the time.   Let there be times when a pc has to step up to the plate and perfom Liz's functions.  It has fostered some fun RP in the past. 

***Lock the doors to the Ladies Rest at midnight and open again at 6AM.  The fact is, most little towns roll up the streets at night.

My little suggestions for making the POTM world a better place.   :lol:

Quote
Im not going to show thing on my own, if no one will care or help out. I myself, Im only a player and I cannot make changes cept make a charachter who can try to spread some horror but it will just end up dead by the legion of christmas tree's

But you'd go out with a bang.   :lol:

Yay i contributed something :P  :lol:
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ThAnswr on July 31, 2009, 12:16:08 PM
I generally agree to the sentiments that her role in the gameplay warrants that she can be excepted for the normal spell-casting limits. But I do like the idea of Liz having a night-replacement, might look into that.

That's actually a great idea.  It would throw a little wrinkle into the game where one is needed. Things get stale and you have to goose them up once in while.

However, I would take it a few steps further:

***Have an npc replacement for Liz only part of the time.   Let there be times when a pc has to step up to the plate and perfom Liz's functions.  It has fostered some fun RP in the past. 

***Lock the doors to the Ladies Rest at midnight and open again at 6AM.  The fact is, most little towns roll up the streets at night.

My little suggestions for making the POTM world a better place.   :lol:

Quote
Im not going to show thing on my own, if no one will care or help out. I myself, Im only a player and I cannot make changes cept make a charachter who can try to spread some horror but it will just end up dead by the legion of christmas tree's

But you'd go out with a bang.   :lol:

Yay i contributed something :P  :lol:

POTM's resident Chuck Norris always contributes something.   :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Budly on July 31, 2009, 01:47:32 PM
Going out with a bang? Awesome!
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: LoLJohnFerro on July 31, 2009, 02:00:23 PM
And by bang they mean strap a keg of alchemists fire on your chest and run into the morninglord church xD
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Rex on July 31, 2009, 02:35:49 PM
Actually, reading the Lock the doors at night comment from Archer there, makes a lot of sense.  Then you can leave the Shelter open at Night, IN the city, which cuts back on the "Power Slide to Liz, get healed, rush back out to Fight" stuff.......

~Rex
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Minstrel on July 31, 2009, 02:54:32 PM
Locking the doors at night has been suggested before, and the point is that the doors would never close and lock out people needing help in the Church.

The Inn, on the other hand, I can see happening.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Rex on July 31, 2009, 03:46:55 PM
Locking the doors at night has been suggested before, and the point is that the doors would never close and lock out people needing help in the Church.

The Inn, on the other hand, I can see happening.

There's another exit to the church.  Entrance as well.

~Rex
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Emomina on July 31, 2009, 03:58:56 PM
How does any of this change anything when healing potions are easily available though :| ?

And its just that we have a lot of new players that this is an issue lately right? I mean, i haven't used Lizuca for more than a light heal in months, since i had a helpless PC. Eventually you just become self sufficient.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: arrmuth on July 31, 2009, 04:15:58 PM
I remember once when Zachea was absent and a PC was filling in for him. The PC went afk and a newbie came in and wanted to know why he couldnt click on them..it was funny as hell :lol:
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Budly on July 31, 2009, 04:27:11 PM
I remember once when Zachea was absent and a PC was filling in for him. The PC went afk and a newbie came in and wanted to know why he couldnt click on them..it was funny as hell :lol:

Oh.... :lol:
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Rixula on July 31, 2009, 05:05:36 PM
Bah, the new players will be soon lvl 10 all and become immortal soon enough coz not very many people get permaed nowdays...*Ducks down to avoid Ecco's Perma beam* Nevertheless...you could make a script that Liz wont heal 1 person jsut about 20 times per day? and is able to raise dead 5 times per day? it would make sense aaand...Budly would be pleased too i think.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Rex on July 31, 2009, 05:15:51 PM
How does any of this change anything when healing potions are easily available though :| ?

And its just that we have a lot of new players that this is an issue lately right? I mean, i haven't used Lizuca for more than a light heal in months, since i had a helpless PC. Eventually you just become self sufficient.


They are?  I haven't been able to buy any of those for either of my two main PC's, in hmm, 7 levels.

~Rex
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: hugolino on August 01, 2009, 03:05:11 AM
The reference to potions being readily available is probably referring to player-crafting of them using herbalism, but I wouldn't call them "readily" available myself.

Sometimes I think everyone else is better at gaming than I am, since people frequently claim in the forums that everyone has far more money, potions, equipment and resources than I generally obtain.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Zedrik on August 01, 2009, 04:14:05 AM
The reference to potions being readily available is probably referring to player-crafting of them using herbalism, but I wouldn't call them "readily" available myself.

Sometimes I think everyone else is better at gaming than I am, since people frequently claim in the forums that everyone has far more money, potions, equipment and resources than I generally obtain.
I feel that way, too. Makes me feel like a weak and inept person.  :allalone:
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: ThAnswr on August 01, 2009, 07:28:42 AM
The reference to potions being readily available is probably referring to player-crafting of them using herbalism, but I wouldn't call them "readily" available myself.

Sometimes I think everyone else is better at gaming than I am, since people frequently claim in the forums that everyone has far more money, potions, equipment and resources than I generally obtain.

Just like in RL.   People claim a whole lot of things.  ;)
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Minstrel on August 01, 2009, 08:16:23 AM
Odd, I've heard (And experienced and seen in-game) that, too. Philhelms Paladin is now level 6 and still using a default longsword and armour, as far as I can tell.

Fossick is a bit more well-equipped, and I'd say he's probably at 'average' for his level. Steel Platemail and Weapon, some chain boots, and a few other bits and bobs. Still wants a good crossbow and some other trinkets.

I've also been told that at this low level, there are PC's with +2 armour and shiny chain boots.


Some characters are just better at getting stuff than other ones.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: shadymerchant on August 01, 2009, 09:14:17 AM
As you learn the module and its various ways, things become a lot easier. My first character, a Gundarakite rebel, never held more than a thousand gold, and never had any gear outside of that supplied by the faction. My second character managed a little better by 16, acquiring a nice collection of halberds and a few trinquets. My mage, after having been here for two years or so, did a lot better, and his ability to solo and socialize pretty much made him incredibly rich. Now when I start out a new character, I know what stores have what, how to get through dungeons, ways to make gold, and so on.

Edit: There's also the age of the module and the gear that is readily available at any given time. Sometimes there's a surplus on shiny boots, sometimes you can't even find +1 fort rings. The more you play and keep your ear out and the more gold you have stashed away, the chances are you'll nab nice stuff now and then.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: LoLJohnFerro on August 01, 2009, 11:09:58 AM
Odd, I've heard (And experienced and seen in-game) that, too. Philhelms Paladin is now level 6 and still using a default longsword and armour, as far as I can tell.

Fossick is a bit more well-equipped, and I'd say he's probably at 'average' for his level. Steel Platemail and Weapon, some chain boots, and a few other bits and bobs. Still wants a good crossbow and some other trinkets.

I've also been told that at this low level, there are PC's with +2 armour and shiny chain boots.


Some characters are just better at getting stuff than other ones.


Its not that some chars are better at getting stuff some just got in the good graces of  the underworld with 20 mins of char creation *cough Alana cough*
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Budly on August 01, 2009, 01:35:26 PM
Poor or rich, we still abuse poor Liz for healing. It must be an avatar of Palor in disguise or something.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Mcskinns on August 01, 2009, 01:36:31 PM
Back on the topic of the thread, I have always thought the NPC clerics were needed, but overpowered.

I would propose something more along the lines of....

Level 1-5  Rez cost 100gp per level
Level 6-10 Rez cost 250gp per level
Level 10-15 Rez cost 500gp Per level
Level 15+  Rez cost 1000 gp per level

To counter this, limit the number of times you can request healing to 2-3 times per day per character, and scale the healing she gives similarly to light/moderate/serious/critical for each of the level groups above.  Include an option in the conversation menu where players can make a donation, donations can then be made to open up the option for restoration or cure disease spells, or even add an additional healing spell for that day.

In the end, this still gives us plenty NPC aid, while making players respect the dangerous situations they put themselves into even more.  It also means PC clerics will have a greater role in keeping people alive.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: peluscious on August 01, 2009, 02:06:06 PM
Yeah, that adds to realism and increase the difficulty of the game.
But don't you think its already hard and fun enough?
The starting problem was: Someone rushed inside in near death, and rushed outside to finish PvP. THAT was bad.
Everything else is just fine in my opinion. Did the free heals really harm the game?
For me, just when i tried to heal some people i didn't know and they just didn't talk to me and rushed for Lizuca for the fast heal. But i can live with that.
Instead of more scripting, as i said earlier, i'd rather have the devs effort channeled to more options for characters.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Budly on August 01, 2009, 02:10:11 PM
The free healing is kind of annoying, seeing some crazy newcomer run up and down the crypt, when he obviously is powerless against the undead. But they yet wish to repeat it 100 times and maybe in the end wore them out.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Emomina on August 01, 2009, 02:52:02 PM
Well... that falls under the other players playing their own way, should be ignored.  I too have tried to get others weened off of NPC healing only, and have loaded my self up with healing potions over the course of weeks, then camped out in the ML and offered them (dirt cheap, selling at a loss), and still people would rather farm the crypts than buy them from another character. Its their choice. there is nothing wrong with every player having a choice. I don't fret over it. Honestly, it doesn't ruin anything for me, they are just hunting xp, and eventually they will move on to something more challenging.


Some characters are just better at getting stuff than other ones.

As far as some characters having access to better gear or whatever is insinuated in this..... its not a big mystery. As a point, armor is from the PC economy usually, so that is around 1k for most characters, you start the game with most of your sum, and a few days of minks and you will have enough.  there are several ways to get better stuff if you ask around, there are so many PCs around that either craft or collect goods and they have difficulty finding buyers, as a player that has spent considerable in-game resources and playing time, acquiring items and skills to provide for myself and others, its quite disheartening that their are characters needing the stuff that we honestly stopped producing except for ourselves because its so hard to not operate at a loss without buyers.

Remember if you need something specifically you can always post a wanted poster in the IC section too.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Vespertilio on August 01, 2009, 03:32:32 PM
There are MANY herbalists, and while it isn't as easy as going to an npc and stocking up, it generates rp and helps build connections between characters with like minded goals or other similarities.  Some of those herbalists are willing to barter, or as Emomina pointed out, even take a loss (and it's not an uncommon business practice to give a real bargain to encourage repeat business and build loyal clientel).  Once you have a connection with a crafter pc of any type it's a lot easier to find them again or connect with other crafters for different wares via the initial pc.  Many pcs have personal reasons for not dealing with certain crafters but I've seen herbalists (and other crafters) of nearly all races and many backgrounds, so there's probably one out there to suit nearly any character.

The idea of Liz having a night shift replacement, is a fantastic one, and it makes a lot of sense icly that she'd take a break and actually sleep.  (Reminds me of when the ferrymen were changed to go inside at night, that seems to have worked out well.)
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: hugolino on August 01, 2009, 09:13:38 PM
"As a point, armor is from the PC economy usually, so that is around 1k for most characters, you start the game with most of your sum, and a few days of minks and you will have enough."

For the record, took my current and main character about a month to afford and buy steel armor, and that was his first major purchase. It would have taken less time except for player looting of my corpse.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Rixula on August 09, 2009, 08:47:49 AM
Only problem would be who the hell would be replacing liz when shifting? lol
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: LoLJohnFerro on August 09, 2009, 04:24:20 PM
Im sure we can have a random ml npc pop in.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Grieyls on August 14, 2009, 09:34:18 PM
Make it a Gnome... I'm a Cleric.. RAWR!
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Kung Fu Orc on August 15, 2009, 03:33:30 AM
Also, for those who call Lizuca overpowered, keep in mind I made her and horatiu to replace the previous NPC who was LEVEL 30.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Budly on August 15, 2009, 05:10:26 AM
Also, for those who call Lizuca overpowered, keep in mind I made her and horatiu to replace the previous NPC who was LEVEL 30.

I do not think thats what Jana meant in the first place.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: LoLJohnFerro on August 15, 2009, 10:54:08 PM
Yeah ill back up budly I dont think she ment level... :|
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Akira Takahashi on August 16, 2009, 12:50:20 AM
Only problem would be who the hell would be replacing liz when shifting? lol

Isnt there a ML faction or something? PCs could replace her at night, and she could come back in the morning, would give the people of the faction something to do for their Church besides slay undead and pray and such
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Rixula on August 16, 2009, 04:01:38 AM
What jana meant was how often liz can use greater restoration, heals and raises that is unlimited amount right now.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Shinkuhado on September 16, 2009, 05:58:09 PM
I did not agree totally with the last post. LEAVE Liz alone the main people that complain about NPCs that are too powerful are one-people who are high level and don't ha to worry so much about dying and two- people that want to run around and attck others with out fear of getting their asses kicked by a DM controlled NPC...high levels need someone to fear besides the DMs so leave the NPCs as thy are so that there will be some order...

Thank you
 :lol:
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Pepchko on September 16, 2009, 11:28:51 PM
Only problem would be who the hell would be replacing liz when shifting? lol

Isnt there a ML faction or something? PCs could replace her at night, and she could come back in the morning, would give the people of the faction something to do for their Church besides slay undead and pray and such

thats actually a real awesome idea, and i dont think its hard to implement. as is many of the vendors are on a script that makes them walk out and disappear between the night hours. though i dont think it will be considered do to the fact that the outskirts were designed to be a hub for new players. and having her disappear would probably send a bad impression/message to new players
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: herkles on September 16, 2009, 11:38:59 PM
I like the ML faction idea as well, but perhaps one could have a limit on how many cures on Liz or she could use a lesser version such as cure critical wounds. One could have it so that there is a lesser cleric at night, one who could cast cure serious wounds and raise dead, but not all the stuff Liz can do thus relying on players.

Also on another related note, what of the chance to spawn a skeleton or some other sort of undead in the temple? for is not raise dead supposed to be a risky spell in ravenloft?
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: failed.bard on September 17, 2009, 12:00:56 AM
  I think if priests were rotated in the outskirts temple, it should actually be the lesser priests during the day.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Rex on September 17, 2009, 08:50:07 AM
I think the priests in the temples should be demanding the spell components required for each spell.  Would slow down the "Oh I'm Near Dead!"  *sprints for Liz heals up charges back into battle* just a bit, since all she really uses are the High end spells that take material components.

~Rex
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Budly on September 17, 2009, 09:34:06 AM
I think the priests in the temples should be demanding the spell components required for each spell.  Would slow down the "Oh I'm Near Dead!"  *sprints for Liz heals up charges back into battle* just a bit, since all she really uses are the High end spells that take material components.

~Rex


 :thumbup:
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: vlowe72 on September 17, 2009, 11:44:49 AM
I like the ML faction idea as well, but perhaps one could have a limit on how many cures on Liz or she could use a lesser version such as cure critical wounds. One could have it so that there is a lesser cleric at night, one who could cast cure serious wounds and raise dead, but not all the stuff Liz can do thus relying on players.

Also on another related note, what of the chance to spawn a skeleton or some other sort of undead in the temple? for is not raise dead supposed to be a risky spell in ravenloft?

Just one thing I need to point out.  Currently only one active ML priest with a high enough level to cast raise dead and restoration that I know about.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: failed.bard on September 17, 2009, 12:57:10 PM
Restoration is a 4th level spell only.  Greater Restoration is excessive, and isn't needed.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Rex on September 17, 2009, 01:19:23 PM
Restoration is a 4th level spell only.  Greater Restoration is excessive, and isn't needed.

What they need is to have Liz cast Implosion on anyone that runs at her for casting while Near dead.

~Rex
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Bad_Bud on September 17, 2009, 01:34:02 PM
Greater restoration saves me the extra conversation of having to ask to have my disease removed AND my health restored!
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Minstrel on September 18, 2009, 05:49:12 AM
Giving Liz Restoration instead of Greater Restoration would make it hard for people to remove curses.

I fully approve.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Bad_Bud on September 18, 2009, 07:06:43 AM
Giving Liz Restoration instead of Greater Restoration would make it hard for people to remove curses.

I fully approve.

I fail to see the benefit.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Maryn on September 18, 2009, 09:37:39 AM
I think the priests in the temples should be demanding the spell components required for each spell.  Would slow down the "Oh I'm Near Dead!"  *sprints for Liz heals up charges back into battle* just a bit, since all she really uses are the High end spells that take material components.

~Rex


I think since Liz is really a resource for low level characters, basic healing should stay how it is. However, things like raise dead, ressurrection? I'm all for requiring material components.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: marlewebber on September 18, 2009, 10:20:13 AM
Maybe monstrous PCs should be allowed to strike NPCs like Lizuca down.  It would be pretty scary to get chased into the temple, only to find the temple priest eviscerated.

...or try to flee into the Mists only to find the Vistani captain slain.  :nono:  (don't try this at home)

Obviously some roleplay should exist for these scenerios, simply offing the NPC to inconvenience others could be grief-ish, but on the other hand, it's perfectly In Character to remove something that your enemy might rely on.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Rex on September 18, 2009, 11:15:58 AM
Maybe monstrous PCs should be allowed to strike NPCs like Lizuca down.  It would be pretty scary to get chased into the temple, only to find the temple priest eviscerated.

...or try to flee into the Mists only to find the Vistani captain slain.  :nono:  (don't try this at home)

Obviously some roleplay should exist for these scenerios, simply offing the NPC to inconvenience others could be grief-ish, but on the other hand, it's perfectly In Character to remove something that your enemy might rely on.

While Liz is certainly, out of her scope of power so to speak, I wouldn't let the Monster PC's remove her out of hand (without a major event), simply because the average Monster PC, is even more so removed in scope of power then what Liz is.  There are a couple of exceptions to this but not many.  <-----Standard Disclaimer before the stoning begins.

~Rex 
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: marlewebber on September 18, 2009, 11:47:32 AM
One thing I just thought of, is that if there weren't NPC priests taking up available roles, PCs could enjoy being a highly sought after Cleric of the Morninglord.   Rather like taking potions out of the game it could be like handing over a role, that can be filled by a player, instead of an inexhaustible robot.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Rex on September 18, 2009, 12:09:26 PM
One thing I just thought of, is that if there weren't NPC priests taking up available roles, PCs could enjoy being a highly sought after Cleric of the Morninglord.   Rather like taking potions out of the game it could be like handing over a role, that can be filled by a player, instead of an inexhaustible robot.

There's plenty PC's CAN do, but, as proven in PW after PW you can't have them hold the Highest tippity top positions, because PC's are people, and people get bored and wander off, or RL makes them do so for other reasons, then you end up with no one in that slot, and a crowd of folks wondering, WTF can we do now?

It's sort of like the issue of a DM run faction when the DM vanishes for one reason or another.  When the guy with the house keys, doesn't show up to let you in the house, it sort of cramps the play of the moment.  hence, you want to keep upper level stuff, as general as possible, while allowing PC's to do all the middle management they want, on their own effort.

~Rex
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Minstrel on September 18, 2009, 01:28:03 PM
Giving Liz Restoration instead of Greater Restoration would make it hard for people to remove curses.

I fully approve.

I fail to see the benefit.

Benefit = Curses are actually something people  have to put in effort to be rid of, and something that would be avoided if it weren't just a matter of nipping to the area everyone seems to run across twice every day anyway and getting a free spell off the priest.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Bad_Bud on September 18, 2009, 05:17:32 PM
Giving Liz Restoration instead of Greater Restoration would make it hard for people to remove curses.

I fully approve.

I fail to see the benefit.

Benefit = Curses are actually something people  have to put in effort to be rid of, and something that would be avoided if it weren't just a matter of nipping to the area everyone seems to run across twice every day anyway and getting a free spell off the priest.

I think all it would do is make curses the preferred method for pissing people off.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Minstrel on September 18, 2009, 05:26:26 PM
Well it's preferable to death, which is only mildly harder to cure.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Kendric98 on September 18, 2009, 11:29:37 PM
Wouldnt be hard to remove her. Somone evil just pay the gold to have her killed and the dm can turn it into a big event. Would be funny watching everyone cry after she was dead anyways.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: Rixula on September 19, 2009, 11:39:11 AM
Kendric is in evil mood, i bet all low lvl who always need healing would cry for her ofcourse.
Title: Re: Liz is overpowered.
Post by: HellsPanda on September 19, 2009, 12:44:25 PM
Liz will always remain, or some version of her.
Zachea was the priest when I came here, he was killed and replaced by Bach, who later was replaced by Liz