Also keep in mind that the ninja looter spends 1/4 of time in the dungeon but he doesn't get any XP at all. I think we are speaking about two different concept here. Ninja looting is right for me.. is just one thing sneaky chars are good at, and its perfectly IC to do so. But what kenpen was saying, and has happened to me before, is something that goes into the OOC aspect of the game. Its OK to wake up at the inn, head to a dungeon, sneak past all monsters and get the loot. But its not OK, and I would consider it griefing, going to a dungeon, noticing theres other party and running invisible/hidden past them to get the loot. Same thing for the campers that log out/in again and again right at the chests/bosses. You are ruining the fun of other players doing that.
We did a term or two ago deal with the topic of ninja looting:
If the chest area is too easily ninja looted in the demonologist dungeon, then perhaps the Dev Team would appreciate suggestions on how to make it more of a risk for the rogue.
We did a term or two ago deal with the topic of ninja looting:
If the chest area is too easily ninja looted in the demonologist dungeon, then perhaps the Dev Team would appreciate suggestions on how to make it more of a risk for the rogue.
Un-nerf true seeing. Ninja looting ends instantly.
Also keep in mind that the ninja looter spends 1/4 of time in the dungeon but he doesn't get any XP at all. I think we are speaking about two different concept here. Ninja looting is right for me.. is just one thing sneaky chars are good at, and its perfectly IC to do so. But what kenpen was saying, and has happened to me before, is something that goes into the OOC aspect of the game. Its OK to wake up at the inn, head to a dungeon, sneak past all monsters and get the loot. But its not OK, and I would consider it griefing, going to a dungeon, noticing theres other party and running invisible/hidden past them to get the loot. Same thing for the campers that log out/in again and again right at the chests/bosses. You are ruining the fun of other players doing that.
Boss keys worked pretty well in the lich tower, but it was a pain because there were key problems and the bosses didn't always spawn.
Except True Seeing was never meant to auto spot hidden opponents, so it's not really nerfed. It's just another spell that Bioware overempowered.
d20 True Seeing (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueseeing.htm)
NWNWiki True Seeing (http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/True_seeing)
What can be done is have a setup like the vampire crypts to avoid the ninjaing, where a creature with True Seeing like the blasphemes (they have the overempowered True Seeing to replace a feat they should have like the oozes) that alert the others of the rogue. I don't know, maybe a special bat (with overempowered True Seeing replacing the Echolocation) that is in the same faction as demonologists alerting them since those monsters make rogues drop stealth.
To me ninja looters aren't as bad as solo'ers. Treasure respawns in timely fashion. Monsters and treasure do not.
The fact of the matter is, when a party spends 2-3+ hours in a hard dungeon (Demonlogists, Alhoon, Ice Queen, etc.), and someone swipes what they should be rewarded with, that blows. It's not entertaining and it only makes party-friendly people like me feel like avoiding dungeons altogether. We don't gather 4-6 players together, enter a dungeon, and deal with the big challenge just to go "Oh well, someone's rogue just beat us to the loot while we were in here, better luck next time!" It leaves a very sour taste in everyone present in the party. I haven't been in a single party encountering this problem that didn't say "Oh well, Ninja-looting is only a fair balance to the server." It's more like "God f***ing dammit, I can't believe this bull****!"
To me ninja looters aren't as bad as solo'ers. Treasure respawns in timely fashion. Monsters and treasure do not.
Spoiler: show
Actually, it takes just as long as raising any other character.
There's no added difficulty to raising ninja-looter and raising a normal party-goer. It's the same game of waiting. And there is no pay-off to this. It's "Congratulations, you now have the option to be a douche to your community or you can continue to party." Raising my last characters to level 15 and raising this one to 15 with the ability to ninja-loot (He's been able to ninja-loot since level 10, mind you) didn't show any difference of difficulty. And what payoff are you talking about? The payoff of letting everyone know that I've obtained sick loot, therefore I'm somehow an awesome guy? Or the payoff of letting everyone know that I'm now ninja-looter #xx, therefore they best beware the utter annoyance that is my awesome ability to right click on a chest, click 'unlock', wait for the small hide/ms penalty to vanish, and then open the chest and slowly (repeating the penalty-wait deal) pick items out of a chest?
While catching looters might be fun, it's ultimately pointless. They're not going to be likely perma'd, and that just means eventually they'll just visit pain and destruction later on the offending PCs... and, then go back to doing it later. And one would have to constantly provide the threat of catching them in order to keep them from doing that. A bunch of PCs, constantly helping monsters protect their loot from other PCs. That's silly. Wink Those level 27 consumed demonologists can protect their own loot, darnit. That's where the threat of being caught should come from, really. The actual monsters who can beat the snot out of most PCs, but who oddly enough can't manage to see sneakers despite their uber spells, demon-eyes, and everything else.
Is the issue ninja-looting or the balance of ninja-looting? What I think would be logical is that it'd take a high level rogue to ninjaloot a high level dungeon, is that the case?
Insert a log-on script that disables Stealth Mode and spellcasting for the first five or ten seconds after logging in?
I dont mind if someone does the whole dungeon, but if i personally take my time and effort to do a dungeon, i like my reward at the end.QuoteInsert a log-on script that disables Stealth Mode and spellcasting for the first five or ten seconds after logging in?
This is a great suggestion, also if you log out while in stealth mode you re-log in stealth mode, a script to disable that would be nice.
Is the issue ninja-looting or the balance of ninja-looting?
What I think would be logical is that it'd take a high level rogue to ninjaloot a high level dungeon, is that the case?
I dont mind if someone does the whole dungeon, but if i personally take my time and effort to do a dungeon, i like my reward at the end.We are all little white lab mice, the dungeons are our mazes, and if we poke our way through to the end of the maze, then someone had better damn well give us our effin' cheese. :x
Nef alone acknowledges my greatness. The rest of you are all Philistines! :PQuoteInsert a log-on script that disables Stealth Mode and spellcasting for the first five or ten seconds after logging in?
This is a great suggestion, also if you log out while in stealth mode you re-log in stealth mode, a script to disable that would be nice.
Everyone must now listen to the song Let It Be by the Beatles.Indiana Jones usually gets the loot after alerting every Thuggee guard and setting off every trap in the place. That's hardly a ninja looter. :P
Some people ninja loot, some people don't. If you can spot the ninja on your way in, all the better.. you can kill, threaten, or rob him/her. I don't think boss keys are the answer, I mean if there's a key hole there should be a chance to pick it. Could make a boss key AND make the chest harder to pick. I do think that placing traps around the chests and other such things to make getting to them harder for someone in stealth might be sufficient. Think Indiana Jones, he is definitely a ninja looter, and it sure isn't easy to do.
Easier to do one that simply, doesn't let you save location in a Dungeon. I think some one else brought up something along those lines. Log Out, you log back in at your last safe location. At least then it adds some effort as a repercussion.I believe it is possible to make certain areas No-Save locations, so I have to go with Rex on this idea too. Back to my idea about logged-off characters not vanishing into the ether, this could be explained as "the monsters caught you while you were sleeping on the boss' treasure chest, so you hauled ass out of the dungeon and didn't stop running until you were in the next county". :?
Been standing outside a Dungeon Waiting for the Group to catch up and had people Log in and CHARGE! (Yes it was screenied and reported). Logging back in at Safe Locations would resolve a chunk of that.