Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist

Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: k_moustakas on October 13, 2008, 02:41:09 PM

Title: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: k_moustakas on October 13, 2008, 02:41:09 PM
Quick mulling over a subject that has been discussed a lot of times but still troubles me.

Random 15th level char that is fully capped. Walled to the point he kills ultra stuff and gets nothing happened.

I don't play him at ALL for ELEVEN (11) days. Then I get bored stupid and rp with him. Quick stuff. No hour long conversations.
So after a total of 15 days, he's still capped. I'm afraid of even rping anymore with him. Is this normal? I mean, if I rped with him during this whole period, how long would it take for him to shed it? Months? Never?

Side note: 5th level char decides to explore the sullen woods. He gets from not capped to walled in thirty minutes. A few days on, I decide to give him a rest. After four days of not playing him at all, he's still capped. (Actually I did play him for like 5 minutes buying some armor)

What gives?
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Kaspar on October 13, 2008, 02:49:30 PM
My Rokuma character has been capped for the past two weeks, hard capped that is. I had another character at about level 18 that was hard capped for two months. It takes awhile..
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Eledaar on October 13, 2008, 02:56:18 PM
It is rather disappointing that RP xp contributes to the cap, but what way around it is there?
I feel that it just forces people to play multiple alts.

I've gotten around it by just playing less and by hunting even less.

On my own side note, I never experienced problems with my main character during early levels.  I mean, I was capped often but it didn't take long to go down.
Perhaps it is possible the xp system has been revised since I started playing.
I've only started to notice the cap being prohibitive past level 9, which is, I think, appropriate for the setting to regulate level gain and the number of high level characters.
Example: I capped a cleric trying to get from 9th to 10th level.  It took 6 days of complete non-activity to move down one cap level.

I mean, it's harsh, but not unreasonable.

A final note: getting xp while capped only increases the duration of the cap - so perhaps if everyone just paced themselves and didnt try to grind through, we'd have better spawns and lower caps all around ;)
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Iconoclast on October 13, 2008, 03:17:48 PM
Having an xp cap in no way "forcing" folks to alternate characters, unless if the primary drive is to level up.  If a player's principal reason for logging in is to experience a levelling up, then perhaps they feel that an xp cap "encourages" them to alternate between characters. 

I don't pay much attention to the cap.  When I am on new dawns, I do sometimes become eager to level up, and I might hit dungeons more frequently then.  However, I would never set a character aside just because of a soft or hard cap.  There is another dimension to the game experience being overlooked if the only thing one does is adventure/dungeon.  I enjoy a balance, appreciating the plot development that takes place mostly via rp interaction within and around Vallaki, involving various factions, including the default outlander faction, along with the occassional dungeon adventure. 


It is story development that trumps any concern for levelling.  Leveling is just one aspect, not the defining factor in deciding which character to log in, unless if the player in question places levelling as their primary value.


Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Ric on October 13, 2008, 04:43:39 PM
Just a quick FYI, since this was stated back like over a year and a half ago:

After level 10, the cap and actual duration increases dramatically, making level progression much harder between 10-15.

After level 15, the cap and actual duration increaess even further.  You could hit hard-cap after level 15 and practicallly sit for weeks before you actually get back to being at the "Mist" message again (2nd out of 4).

Best thing you can do for yourself is just play the game.  There's no point in making yourself slow down your character because of the cap.  After level 10, you'll be hitting the cap so frequently that it'll just bother you too much if that's all you're playing the game for.  Don't pay attention to the cap and do whatever you want.  Essentially, you're not slowing down the time it'll take you to level up by going against the cap.

Just need patience, is all.  It's why most characters between levels 15 and 20 are the kind of characters to give props to, since most people end up perma-killed or shelved at those points.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Eledaar on October 13, 2008, 05:28:38 PM
Just a quick FYI, since this was stated back like over a year and a half ago:

After level 10, the cap and actual duration increases dramatically, making level progression much harder between 10-15.

After level 15, the cap and actual duration increaess even further.  You could hit hard-cap after level 15 and practicallly sit for weeks before you actually get back to being at the "Mist" message again (2nd out of 4).

Best thing you can do for yourself is just play the game.  There's no point in making yourself slow down your character because of the cap.  After level 10, you'll be hitting the cap so frequently that it'll just bother you too much if that's all you're playing the game for.  Don't pay attention to the cap and do whatever you want.  Essentially, you're not slowing down the time it'll take you to level up by going against the cap.

Just need patience, is all.  It's why most characters between levels 15 and 20 are the kind of characters to give props to, since most people end up perma-killed or shelved at those points.

I figured it was intended to be something along these lines.

Also, to Iconoclast - yes, the cap doesn't force anyone to do anything.
I don't think the thread was set up for people to talk about how they enjoy experiencing/playing their characters, but as a discussion of the xp system.
I'm merely stating my opinion that logging on with the intention to go into a dungeon is moot during certain levels of cap.  A cap wouldn't stop me from logging on to chat with characters or continue a plotline or even just sit and listen to the awesome night music in the outskirts, but I see no reason to mess up spawns/loot for other people if I'm not getting anything out of it.

And as for those people whose "principal reason for logging in is to experience a levelling up," perhaps this is not a compatible system/setting for them!

OT: when I read "a levelling up" I couldn't help but think of the cheesy 'quickenings' from Highlander. /end OT
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Ric on October 13, 2008, 06:13:46 PM
A lot of people (myself included) tend to hunt just for the loot.  I get most of my level ups from RP than I do from hunting these days, so when I hunt, it's usually to have a shot at finding good loot.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: ThAnswr on October 13, 2008, 08:53:48 PM
A lot of people (myself included) tend to hunt just for the loot.  I get most of my level ups from RP than I do from hunting these days, so when I hunt, it's usually to have a shot at finding good loot.

The last I checked, I get no XP from dungeoning.  However, if I BS for an hour, I get a "proud" message.  Go figure. 
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Helaman on October 13, 2008, 09:00:52 PM
I had a 5th level PC walled for about 8 days.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: engelfire on October 14, 2008, 12:16:46 AM
well caps take aeons to wear off

when my vino was lv 15, i waited like few months to get the cap away. then after 10 minutes of dungeoning, he was back in cap and that resulted in few weeks of waiting hehe.

so id say use alternative characters when your main gets capped ad your bored of plain rp. it will take looong time till the cap goes away :)
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Falcifer on December 05, 2008, 11:24:31 AM
well caps take aeons to wear off

when my vino was lv 15, i waited like few months to get the cap away. then after 10 minutes of dungeoning, he was back in cap and that resulted in few weeks of waiting hehe.

so id say use alternative characters when your main gets capped ad your bored of plain rp. it will take looong time till the cap goes away :)

O_O''

I'm getting increasingly scared of how long it's going to take to get to level 10.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Rex on December 05, 2008, 11:36:29 AM
Alright.  HOW, is this Cap Supposed to work.  Really.  I see a lot of people Start up, and Poof two days later they are double digit.  Then on the other hand I see all these posts about people not being able to get a level for MONTHS.  I had thought it was simple but apparently not.  What's the structure of it, so we can end the confusion.  For the longest time I thought it was something simple.  2500 XP, 24 hour period.  Possible add on's for DM and RP xp etc.......From my own experience my PC's growth is extremely slow but steady, however other people of the SAME CLASS, are now a Level or two Higher, in 1/100th the time.  That's even factoring in Play Times and what not.

Considering the exponential growth of some people, somethings screwy, or it's exploitable.  Need to know the set up though to determine which.

~Rex
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Badbelly on December 05, 2008, 12:25:48 PM
I have been on blind drive for months with my main PC and seem to be leveling at a steady rate ( about a level a week).  The cap doesn't stop xp, just curtails it. When you are on blind drive, look at it as a good thing, means you are leveling about as fast as you can.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Countess29 on December 05, 2008, 01:17:47 PM
Well just a thought

WoW (world of warcraft) doesn't have level caps. Oh and you don't even have to RP. Has hundreds of dungeons people can grind in

Personally I like the level caps. It prevents powergaming 100% of the time. It's an rp server. Not sure what you guys are looking in the game. Might need to rethink it is all I am saying
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Rex on December 05, 2008, 01:30:28 PM
Well just a thought

WoW (world of warcraft) doesn't have level caps. Oh and you don't even have to RP. Has hundreds of dungeons people can grind in

Personally I like the level caps. It prevents powergaming 100% of the time. It's an rp server. Not sure what you guys are looking in the game. Might need to rethink it is all I am saying

Why is it that people think ROLE PLAY, doesn't include things such as oh, Fighters Fighting?  No XP No Growth turns your RP server into a CHAT ROOM.  My point is that I am curious, as to how someone (example) that popped into Game when my main PC was 6th level, Makes it to 10th level before me, given the relative same amount of real time passage, factoring in that at that time I was on every day, and maybe saw this other person, 3 times, but each time I saw them, they put on another 3 levels.

Some people seem capable of EXPONENTIAL XP growth.  I expect that from certain folks, basically because they are playing classes that can surge ahead once they get to a certain spell range.  But there are NON Casters that seem to be able to do this as well, and that piques my intrest.  As I said, it's either an Exploit, or something Fishy, if there is supposed to be a Ceiling of "X" per 24 Hour period, How are these people surging ahead so quickly?

~Rex
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Countess29 on December 05, 2008, 01:35:55 PM
So the non stop beating of things is rp. Well thats great I learned something
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Vespertilio on December 05, 2008, 01:52:44 PM
One of the main things I liked right away about PotM was you didn't know how much xp you were getting and that you got xp for rp.  My experience has been the higher level the pc, the more rp xp seems to benefit as opposed to killing npcs.  I know not knowing bothers some folks, those with limited time often like to know they'll level up during a gaming session, if gives a feeling of accomplishment.  However, one of the greatest things about PotM in my opinion is you do not have to grind to get to a certain level before jumping into rp and in fact can become immersed in the setting via rp with little ooc /need/ to kill npcs.

I personally think it's a shame people will stop playing a pc for no other reason than a message indicating they are getting 'less than the optimum' xp. I've ignored those messages and found it really doesn't make a lot of difference, I'm actually in favor of removing all the messages related to xp but doubt that's a popular opinion.  However, the current emphasis, based on forum topics, about spawns and xp really gives the impression things are moving away from an rp oriented server.  Adventuring, looking for good weapons, making money, these are things many characters have a need or drive to do and is as much a part of role play as chatting in inns or temples, there are many reasons to go 'dungeoning' that are totally ic I'm not trying to suggest they aren't part of the total picture.  But looking at forum posts and topics it appears that a lot of dungeoning is self admittedly ooc driven and in fact arranged via tells and not rp. Being more concerned about a 'wasted trip' to a dungeon due to low spawns is disregarding part of the total picture just as much as those who assume entering any dungeon means you are a 'power player'.  The implications and divisive attitudes of 'us' vs 'them' are counterproductive to a community and I honestly cannot understand why it always has to come down to validate me, MY way is the best way.

Basically, I'd say, don't stop playing a character just because of a message, if that pc interests you and has a lot of things going on icly, just keep having fun.  You will still level up, perhaps not at the 'optimum level' but you are 'making progress' playing the character. 
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Rex on December 05, 2008, 02:24:04 PM
So the non stop beating of things is rp. Well thats great I learned something

Again I will point out, Role Play, is the Playing of a Role.  If your ROLE, is that of a herculean Barbarian Sword Swinger, and you go out and Swing a Sword, IN ADDITION TO EVERYTHING ELSE.  You are playing Your Role.  If however, you are barbarian herculean sword swinger, and you have never, Ever, Ever lifted or touched a Weapon, Never adventure, never go outside, and have mastered the Pinky Extension on your wine goblet while chatting about the turnip market at the Tavern, then you are not really playing said Role of the herculean sword swinger are you?

There is a term that goes about called Role Crawl.  You sort of end up with what you get, at a table top game.  It's not Grinding.  grinding, aka the Non Stop Beating of things, is when you get people that log in on a schedule, rape a dungeon, stash loot log out and repeat.  That's an Issue.

But that guy, that spends two hours talking folks into an adventure, gathers supplies, gathers people, emotes the trip, builds on all the previous while in the dungeon, continues such after the tedious chore of beating up an ogre, grabs the loot, heads back to town with his group to sell off the loot then go spend the next couple of hours bragging in the Tavern.  That's a Role Player To.  Just as much as that group of people that speak with nothing but disdain about those that wonder why Said Monster, that could kill the party in three hits, was worth less XP, then 4 minutes of talking about grapes rippening on the vine.

A DnD Game, is a mixture of Elements.  Grind Grind Grind = MMO.  Chat Chat Chat = Chat room.  Mix both toss a DnD stamp on it and you got a Role Playing Game.

Now, topic 2.

One of the main things I liked right away about PotM was you didn't know how much xp you were getting and that you got xp for rp.  My experience has been the higher level the pc, the more rp xp seems to benefit as opposed to killing npcs.  I know not knowing bothers some folks, those with limited time often like to know they'll level up during a gaming session, if gives a feeling of accomplishment.  However, one of the greatest things about PotM in my opinion is you do not have to grind to get to a certain level before jumping into rp and in fact can become immersed in the setting via rp with little ooc /need/ to kill npcs.

I personally think it's a shame people will stop playing a pc for no other reason than a message indicating they are getting 'less than the optimum' xp. I've ignored those messages and found it really doesn't make a lot of difference, I'm actually in favor of removing all the messages related to xp but doubt that's a popular opinion.  However, the current emphasis, based on forum topics, about spawns and xp really gives the impression things are moving away from an rp oriented server.  Adventuring, looking for good weapons, making money, these are things many characters have a need or drive to do and is as much a part of role play as chatting in inns or temples, there are many reasons to go 'dungeoning' that are totally ic I'm not trying to suggest they aren't part of the total picture.  But looking at forum posts and topics it appears that a lot of dungeoning is self admittedly ooc driven and in fact arranged via tells and not rp. Being more concerned about a 'wasted trip' to a dungeon due to low spawns is disregarding part of the total picture just as much as those who assume entering any dungeon means you are a 'power player'.  The implications and divisive attitudes of 'us' vs 'them' are counterproductive to a community and I honestly cannot understand why it always has to come down to validate me, MY way is the best way.

Basically, I'd say, don't stop playing a character just because of a message, if that pc interests you and has a lot of things going on icly, just keep having fun.  You will still level up, perhaps not at the 'optimum level' but you are 'making progress' playing the character. 

I could care less about the message In fact I tend to ignore it and often am an advocate for even SLOWER growth and LESS XP, so long as it is a Balance of Risk vs Reward.  It's the folk that seem capable of EXPONENTIAL growth in comparrison to other observed states, in the same given time period.  I know for sure, that I am not the only person that's logged in, scratched his head and asked someone, *Activates Walking on Eggshells Filter*  "Wow, where did all these new 14th level people come from?  Last I saw that one was 5th two days ago."

That's what makes me wonder about the XP set up.  It looks from THIS END, that some people have found a way around it.  Be it by Exploit, or other means.

~Rex
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Ric on December 05, 2008, 02:32:24 PM
I was about to re-explain the system again until I realized I already did in this thread:

Just a quick FYI, since this was stated back like over a year and a half ago:

After level 10, the cap and actual duration increases dramatically, making level progression much harder between 10-15.

After level 15, the cap and actual duration increaess even further.  You could hit hard-cap after level 15 and practicallly sit for weeks before you actually get back to being at the "Mist" message again (2nd out of 4).

Best thing you can do for yourself is just play the game.  There's no point in making yourself slow down your character because of the cap.  After level 10, you'll be hitting the cap so frequently that it'll just bother you too much if that's all you're playing the game for.  Don't pay attention to the cap and do whatever you want.  Essentially, you're not slowing down the time it'll take you to level up by going against the cap.

Just need patience, is all.  It's why most characters between levels 15 and 20 are the kind of characters to give props to, since most people end up perma-killed or shelved at those points.

I'll throw in my two cents about the time it takes to gain exp.  I've built a bunch of characters since the new progression was added and kept tab of my exp.  The fastest it takes to hit level 10 on this server is two months (a few days less or more, give or take).  All the characters I've started got to level 10 in that estimated time.

The thing that most people worry about is the fact that once you hit level 10, your cap looks (and feels) like it's slowing you down from progression.  It's not.  When you hit level 10, two things occur that I've noted:

1.  The EXP gain is slower.
2.  The duration for the EXP-buffer (Aka "The Cap") extends.  Which means, when you hit Proverbial Wall Cap, you're probably going to need to wait about a week at minimum just to return to "Whatever the Mist throws at you."

No one needs to feel like the system is causing a hindrance in your character's leveling.  Everyone likes level-ups, and everyone wants their characters to get stronger, but the system keeps characters on a leash for a reason.  If we didn't have a cap, we'd have what 90% of other NWN servers have: A segregated playerbase where one half wants to get involved in dynamics, regardless of level, and the other half wants to power-game to level 20 before getting involved in dynamics.

This isn't to say that people don't do that on this server.  I won't lie, I've known players that log on, kill stuff, then log off; and then you never actually see them interacting until they're past level 15.  The good news is that most people I've known who tried this route inevitably stopped and said that they were getting too bored, since the wait was absurdly long.  To constantly play this game and stay on-the-ball with your EXP (not allowing it to hit the "You regret you haven't done anything" message, which stops your buffer regeneration) will take you a solid 6 months just to hit level 15'ish.  And let's not forget, the exp slows down even further after level 15 than it was between 10 and 15.

For those who are worried about playing and/or feeling like it's a waste of time to play when you're capped: Stop worrying and just play the game.  If you're playing the game every day, you will be capped all the time.  But if you're playing the game everyday, aren't you enjoying yourself?
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Rex on December 05, 2008, 03:03:56 PM
I was about to re-explain the system again until I realized I already did in this thread:

Just a quick FYI, since this was stated back like over a year and a half ago:

After level 10, the cap and actual duration increases dramatically, making level progression much harder between 10-15.

After level 15, the cap and actual duration increaess even further.  You could hit hard-cap after level 15 and practicallly sit for weeks before you actually get back to being at the "Mist" message again (2nd out of 4).

Best thing you can do for yourself is just play the game.  There's no point in making yourself slow down your character because of the cap.  After level 10, you'll be hitting the cap so frequently that it'll just bother you too much if that's all you're playing the game for.  Don't pay attention to the cap and do whatever you want.  Essentially, you're not slowing down the time it'll take you to level up by going against the cap.

Just need patience, is all.  It's why most characters between levels 15 and 20 are the kind of characters to give props to, since most people end up perma-killed or shelved at those points.

I'll throw in my two cents about the time it takes to gain exp.  I've built a bunch of characters since the new progression was added and kept tab of my exp.  The fastest it takes to hit level 10 on this server is two months (a few days less or more, give or take).  All the characters I've started got to level 10 in that estimated time.

The thing that most people worry about is the fact that once you hit level 10, your cap looks (and feels) like it's slowing you down from progression.  It's not.  When you hit level 10, two things occur that I've noted:

1.  The EXP gain is slower.
2.  The duration for the EXP-buffer (Aka "The Cap") extends.  Which means, when you hit Proverbial Wall Cap, you're probably going to need to wait about a week at minimum just to return to "Whatever the Mist throws at you."

No one needs to feel like the system is causing a hindrance in your character's leveling.  Everyone likes level-ups, and everyone wants their characters to get stronger, but the system keeps characters on a leash for a reason.  If we didn't have a cap, we'd have what 90% of other NWN servers have: A segregated playerbase where one half wants to get involved in dynamics, regardless of level, and the other half wants to power-game to level 20 before getting involved in dynamics.

This isn't to say that people don't do that on this server.  I won't lie, I've known players that log on, kill stuff, then log off; and then you never actually see them interacting until they're past level 15.  The good news is that most people I've known who tried this route inevitably stopped and said that they were getting too bored, since the wait was absurdly long.  To constantly play this game and stay on-the-ball with your EXP (not allowing it to hit the "You regret you haven't done anything" message, which stops your buffer regeneration) will take you a solid 6 months just to hit level 15'ish.  And let's not forget, the exp slows down even further after level 15 than it was between 10 and 15.

For those who are worried about playing and/or feeling like it's a waste of time to play when you're capped: Stop worrying and just play the game.  If you're playing the game every day, you will be capped all the time.  But if you're playing the game everyday, aren't you enjoying yourself?

I think, where the enjoyment becomes over shadowed by disappointment is when you, playing your PC all the time and having a grand old time at it, are suddenly eclipsed by people you've never seen, in all the time you've been playing, that pop out of nowhere with a powerhouse PC and proceed to start kicking sand in your PC's face.

I think, I've actually hit a Cap of any kind, twice in the time I've been here.  I also go out of my way to Mix it up XP wise to, and I alternate between three PC's depending on the Niche that looks interesting at the moment.

Case in other point to.  Perma Death isn't really an issue,  I've seen, maybe three since I've been around, and while the system keeps growth on a leash for a reason, pretty much nothing was done to address the "issue causing pc's" that necessitated the reason for having a leash in the first place.  That equates, to the same thing as you live in a box full of Rattlesnakes.  Every day new Rattlesnakes are Added.  Finally, they only Add one Rattlesnake a Month.  That doesn't fix the problem that you have with living in a box, up to your neck in Rattlesnakes.

~Rex


Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Ric on December 05, 2008, 03:26:18 PM
I certainly understand that, since I also ponder sometimes where certain high-level characters come from.  The only real thing I do in that case is shrug and accept it.  There are reasons certain high levels crop up once in a while:

:arrow:  Old players returnning from vacation who have been near-forgotten.
:arrow:  Current (and old) players who had their character identies changed for IC reasons (especially monsters).
:arrow:  Players that only play sparingly (and by sparingly, I mean they play once a week).

Those are some examples as to where the higher-levels crop up.  I could go on discussing friction between high and low level, but I think that would be better to discuss on another topic.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Rex on December 05, 2008, 04:05:43 PM
I certainly understand that, since I also ponder sometimes where certain high-level characters come from.  The only real thing I do in that case is shrug and accept it.  There are reasons certain high levels crop up once in a while:

:arrow:  Old players returnning from vacation who have been near-forgotten.
:arrow:  Current (and old) players who had their character identies changed for IC reasons (especially monsters).
:arrow:  Players that only play sparingly (and by sparingly, I mean they play once a week).

Those are some examples as to where the higher-levels crop up.  I could go on discussing friction between high and low level, but I think that would be better to discuss on another topic.

Still that's a very SMALL amount of people and you are correct the Friction, is a topic for another thread.  What I'm wondering about though, are the obviously NEW.  Not an Old Login or such (Since I do go back to the forums to root around in past faded days of glory).  These New also seem to be of considerable number, otherwise other people wouldn't be wondering, "WTH did that guy come from?"

Then, when you factor in the "Fishy Factor"  (400 people you've never seen telling you "There are reasons blah blah blah") it gets more curious.  I mean, they can't be Any Older then the last Vault Crash Right?

~Rex
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Falcifer on December 05, 2008, 04:18:30 PM
Speaking from a newbie standpoint, and a newbie who takes both RP, Group RP Questing, and Solo Grinding, in that order, the XP cap worries me, especially with the mention of waiting months to gain a single experience point. I'm all for slow gain, but no gain at all, and not for the remaining day, but for a huge stretch of time?
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Ric on December 05, 2008, 04:34:03 PM
I certainly understand that, since I also ponder sometimes where certain high-level characters come from.  The only real thing I do in that case is shrug and accept it.  There are reasons certain high levels crop up once in a while:

:arrow:  Old players returnning from vacation who have been near-forgotten.
:arrow:  Current (and old) players who had their character identies changed for IC reasons (especially monsters).
:arrow:  Players that only play sparingly (and by sparingly, I mean they play once a week).

Those are some examples as to where the higher-levels crop up.  I could go on discussing friction between high and low level, but I think that would be better to discuss on another topic.

Still that's a very SMALL amount of people and you are correct the Friction, is a topic for another thread.  What I'm wondering about though, are the obviously NEW.  Not an Old Login or such (Since I do go back to the forums to root around in past faded days of glory).  These New also seem to be of considerable number, otherwise other people wouldn't be wondering, "WTH did that guy come from?"

Then, when you factor in the "Fishy Factor"  (400 people you've never seen telling you "There are reasons blah blah blah") it gets more curious.  I mean, they can't be Any Older then the last Vault Crash Right?

~Rex


The Vault Crash happened around March of 2007 (might have been Februrary), and then there was a thread that requested that everyone seeking remakes to place the character and the levels the character had to restore.  From what I recall, there was a small handful of people who weren't around the server during that period, but when they came back, they were required to send a request to the DMs, in which they would check their resources as to whether or not the request was legit or someone trying to be sneaky.  The new exp system was implimented right after the Vault Crash, too, which means that the players who got beyond level 10+ before the Vault Crash experienced the easier time of the server, where one could hit level 20 in about 4-6 months, give or take.

At the end of the day, it's safe to say that the rate of which exp is accumulating for the average player seems to be staying at the same rate it has been since the Vault Crash.  As I said, I've done numerous characters in the post-crash era, and the time it took them to hit specific levels all seemed to be the same as previous.  I can't say whether or not there have been loop-holes (since I have yet to find any), but I would hope that players that do find loop-holes to bypass the system report that to the Devs for fixing.

Speaking from a newbie standpoint, and a newbie who takes both RP, Group RP Questing, and Solo Grinding, in that order, the XP cap worries me, especially with the mention of waiting months to gain a single experience point. I'm all for slow gain, but no gain at all, and not for the remaining day, but for a huge stretch of time?

The part I bolded is a common misconception people make (which is why some people end up logging out, thinking they're not going to gain anything).  I'm going to give a strong example to clarify this:

When I started playing here, my play-time schedule was pretty awful for the first two months.  I made my character the same day as a bunch of other players, and we would adventure together, as well as exploring dynamics.  One friend of mine was playing the server every single day for several hours at a time.  When he wasn't RPing, he was out hitting dungeons with other people.  After about a month of this, I began to notice something.

When we were both level 7, he was very close to level 8, while I was still at the beginning of level 7.  He was Proverbial-Wall capped, and I was practically one day away from entering "You regret you aren't adventuring enough blah blah."  For an experiment, I took a couple of high-level characters and did a dungeon I knew would get me a ton of EXP.  What was the result?  I got to level 8 from the beginning of level 7, and I, too, was now at the Proverbial Wall like my friend.

What does this mean?  It means that the system allowed me to progress up to the same point my friend was at, since I was taking it slower than he.  The end result is that as long as I never hit the "You regret you aren't adventuring enough blah blah" message, I could actually maintain the exact same exp my friend had, becuase we both made our characters at the same time.  Thus, we could never actually 'fall behind' from each other without one of us stopping for several weeks.

The system doesn't stop you at all, it just keeps you in line.  Playing all day or playing once every few days won't slow or speed you up.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Rex on December 05, 2008, 05:01:39 PM
But, as stated this "In Line" doesn't appear to apply, otherwise folks that play all the time wouldn't be wondering where all the new "folk of Impact" are coming from.

~Rex
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: EO on December 05, 2008, 05:05:16 PM
But, as stated this "In Line" doesn't appear to apply, otherwise folks that play all the time wouldn't be wondering where all the new "folk of Impact" are coming from.

~Rex


If you have concerns about specific players, send them to the Council or the DM team. Spreading gossip like that and rumors about 'players' that 'may' be cheating the system does nothing but harm to the community.

Stating something doesn't make it true.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Falcifer on December 05, 2008, 05:14:32 PM
Is there any kind of knowledge about the average time taken to reach levels?

I'm not expecting it within a day, just... Well, how long it took a character you started with this XP system to get to level 10, 15, and 20? Days? Weeks? Months? Many months?

Years?
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: EO on December 05, 2008, 05:28:59 PM
Is there any kind of knowledge about the average time taken to reach levels?

I'm not expecting it within a day, just... Well, how long it took a character you started with this XP system to get to level 10, 15, and 20? Days? Weeks? Months? Many months?

Years?

Personally, my first character pre-wipe took around 6 months to get to level 20. My second character, a rebel, never reached level 9 after 2 years of playing, but I didn't play him intensively and all his XP came from events. My third character reached 19 in mm, around 10-11 months perhaps, then went back to 16 as a wererat and it took a good three-four months to get to 18 then she became darklord.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Ric on December 05, 2008, 05:37:50 PM
Average times from my experience of characters:

1-10 :arrow: about two months
10-15 :arrow: about 4-5 months
15-20 :arrow: couldn't honestly tell you, since I never made it to 20 with a character post-wipe.  The time it's taken me to get from level 15 to 16 on Mykel Lacusta was about two months though, so that should give you the idea of how slow things get after 15.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Iconoclast on December 05, 2008, 05:39:30 PM
Quote
Is there any kind of knowledge about the average time taken to reach levels?

It varies Falciifer.

My oldest character is level nine.

My second oldest character is about level 10 or 11, I forget.


I have a two year old character, Carrib, who is level 17.

I have a one year old character, Nell, who is also level 17.

Quite a few folks are in the custum of when their character gets to a rather high level, they cease to adenture all that much, and focus more on other aspects of character development. 
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Falcifer on December 05, 2008, 05:44:54 PM
Alright, responses much appreciated.

Hopefully we got more than a year to go until everyone sods off to NWN2!
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Ric on December 05, 2008, 06:26:54 PM
Trust me, someone said those same exact words over a year ago, and most of us aren't even wanting to go to NWN2 the way it's developing so clunky.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: kanedellesk on December 07, 2008, 12:43:08 PM
Saved Delphi the trouble and split the NWN 2 stuff into a new topic. Remember, everyone, Delph moderates this whole big forum for no pay, so let's stop tying to give her a heart attack before she hits 30, eh?  :lol:

(Side Note: DM Inferno is allowed to say and/or do things that raise Delph's blood pressure  :P)
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Mrjunkie on December 08, 2008, 02:03:03 PM
Finally reached level up, heavily capped now so i'll see how long it'll take to ware off...
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Rex on December 08, 2008, 02:53:13 PM
Finally reached level up, heavily capped now so i'll see how long it'll take to ware off...

Cool, Inquiring Minds wish to know.  It's not so much that I really Care when my guys level, I'd just as soon NEVER see any sort of message what so ever.  But it's nice to know the variables just in case something is screwy.

~Rex
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Ric on December 08, 2008, 04:00:30 PM
The cap message, to me, has always been a barrier for people who don't understand the system.  There's nothing wrong with not going into a dungeon becuase you are capped, but forcing yourself to avoid anything that gives exp (including role-play and DM-plots) is a bit absurd.  It's basically like saying "I would have fun, but I don't want to be capped."

It's very difficult to stay off blind-drive / proverbial wall once you're past level 10 (even worse after 15, believe me).  The reason is becuase the time it takes to regenerate the exp buffer decreases, meaning that if you had to normally wait a day or two to get off a cap-message, you'll now have to wait up to a week just to be able to hit a dungeon without shifting exp-messages.  This isn't a problem though.  Your EXP isn't going away, it's just decreasing.  I've raised a character from level 12 to 16 while remaining in the proverbial wall the entire time.  No breaks either, consistent RP with side adventures to dungeons.  Just have to be patient and bare in mind that the system becomes slower after 10 and 15.

I had two choices the whole time I was capped.  I could have logged off for about two weeks, came back, and then hit dungeons getting tons of exp OR I could have continued playing.  The same result would have happened, if I chose the former over the latter.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: ThAnswr on December 08, 2008, 04:08:58 PM

It's very difficult to stay off blind-drive / proverbial wall once you're past level 10 (even worse after 15, believe me). 

Obviously, you don't know my char very well.   Calor is living proof you don't have to do much to keep leveling and accumulate wealth.   :mrgreen:



Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Rex on December 08, 2008, 04:34:57 PM
Just get rid of the messages.  Problem solved.

~Rex
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Kaspar on December 08, 2008, 05:23:58 PM
I wanted to bring that sort of idea up, but Rex beat me to it. [Shakes a fist at Rex.]

It'd take away from the leveling aspect of the game, add a little flavor of surprise, and let people worry less about being capped or not. I like it a lot.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Taty on December 08, 2008, 05:45:32 PM
Heaven forbid people actually saw their xp as they got it. If it wasn't hidden alot of problems would be solved.

~Taty~
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: DM Tarokka on December 08, 2008, 07:38:11 PM
Had Belinda going from level 7 to 15 from June to October, always in proverbial wall cap after a week of my coming back for the 90% of the time and that did not prevent me a:) to enjoy the game; b) to level up at a reasonable speed; c) to use her as my only/main char for most of my time. Same now with Caterina who's level 9 and with "whatever Mists blah blah". I don't know how others enjoy playing or levelling, I like it a lot and usually I don't let a cap make me play less or not, there are other OOC reasons (work, sleep, GF, etc).
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Nightmare on December 09, 2008, 01:21:22 AM
I've played several characters, with ECL XP penalties, limited social exposure, or none of the above.

I've played ALOT of characters, most of which I level once, then abandon due to dislike of the concept.

My highest level character, ever, is my drow, a level 13 (ecl 15). It's taken him almost a year and a half to reach that level, mostly due to my blatant lack of adventuring, followed by maybe one high-XP gain trip a month/two weeks and alot of Roleplay. For some reason, he's never really been capped, and it makes me wonder if the ECL has anything to do with it. I once spent an entire Demonologists run (good spawn, too) in the lazy message.

My second highest level character is Vladimir (inventor of the Vlad-slap!) a level 13 character. Vlad has gained about the same number of levels, in just a little less time than Divaun. Vlad's levels are almost entirely from Roleplay, with the occasional dungeon/event thrown in.. Thats alot of RP, for that many levels. But still, he leveld in about the same amount of time as my Drow and his dungeoning.

I personally, don't care nor notice the cap. I'm lazy. Most of the time I don't go adventuring unless asked/prodded into it. Levels don't matter -too- much to me. A well-run/played Roleplay experience can equal or surpass a dungeon. I have been capped before, but I recall it only taking a week to lower itself to the normal message, then another week for it to reach the "lazy" message.

As for being able to see the XP, that could be useful, and the agrument against it "People will grind more when they think they're close to a level" is moot, since the "New dawns of enlightenment will show themselves to you soon" does the same thing (for me, at least..)
I'm just used to it not being there.. good either way.

I also notice that the level range from around 3-7 seems to pass rather quickly. Might just be me, though.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: EO on December 09, 2008, 01:32:44 AM
One of the great things about hiding XP that some seem to ignore is that that way people can't figure out the XP system and thus can't abuse it. On many servers, people figure out how the XP system works quickly then proceed to 'abuse' it, knowing the loops, knowing what gives more XP.

Here, you don't have that. Sure, demonologists give more XP than rats, but how much do they give, what gives more XP, how does it work, etc? That's a big unknown to everyone.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: ThAnswr on December 09, 2008, 01:42:34 AM
Even though Calor has made a career out of "neglecting your path", he's still made level 17 and manages to get a little XP everytime he's on.  It all adds up.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: darkpriest on December 09, 2008, 03:25:31 AM
Hmm maybe it's the how and when people are leveling? I've noticed that if i hold myself on constant no cap or positive cap, because i do not go grinding xp and do not get that often to blind drive and never hit the wall, i level at the same pace or maybe even faster than few people who do go for xp runs. Also i;ve noticed that it was much easier for my fighter to get to lvl 6 than to my wizard, and to be honest i did not even try to grind for xp with my fighter. Maybe it also dependace on what class are you playing? And what about multiclassing penalties? Maybe an elf that has 6 lvls ranger and then gets a level of rogue simply handicaps himself?
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: engelfire on December 09, 2008, 07:51:56 AM
i dont really want to know how the system goes but

to my experience it goes as follows

"you have been negletting your path" = improved gain till you reach "whatever mist throws at you..." this is only to get you back on track

"whatever mist throws at you, you can take it" = normal gain based on system's standards

"blind drive" = lessened gain

"proverbial wall" = you only gain a fraction of your total xp, rest prolly goes into xp bank which is later on added to your xp pool

thats how i see it. its almost as no matter what you do, everyone levels on equal rate. there are however exceptions when someone finds a way to gain faster xp, or it just feels that way.

by no means ment as anything negative towards Mayvind, but sometimes it feels he gains levels fast. but thats only becouse he plays rather randomly and has several characters, so when he comes with one character that has reached "negletting your path" status and he goes kill dragon he gets shitload of xp. so it just feels he gets xp faster but really doesnt. everyone spends same time leveling their characters. nothing negative man, just used you as example :)

i sometimes use it myself too, vino is negletting his path, he goes and kills few greater fiendish fanatics, gets truckload of xp (and bit of cap too) and prolly jumps quite a bit ahead in lv gain, but its not abuse, its getting back on track :)

then there is also the factor of CR, challenge rating. you are affected by it. if your in a party that has mostly lv 6's, then in comes one lv 18 character. this high lv lifts the CR skyhigh and the party only gains fraction of xp what it would have if adventuring without the lv 18 dude. That is everyday present with mages, summons lift CR, Tenser form lifts CR too hehe

theres prolly tons of various factors in play that affect everything. conclusion, no matter what you do, you level up as fast as anyone else
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: darkpriest on December 09, 2008, 07:56:28 AM
To be honest removing message alltogether would be the best. Otherwise you still can figure out which monsters give what kind of xp and where to go -xp grinding-, but then again devs would have to switch xp gains when they would introduce it, because by now most people know OOCly what kind of xp they should expect from certain areas/monsters.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Rex on December 09, 2008, 09:14:27 AM
Once again, if you Hide the XP to promote RP, then Hide the messages for the same reason.  Poof.  People stop worrying.

~Rex
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: engelfire on December 09, 2008, 10:08:22 AM
no, people keep worrying when they get their level, regardless wheter you see the message or not

it would actually slow everything down to a halt. people just gather xp while they are heavily capped, thus making their leveling very slow becouse they cant see their status
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: darkpriest on December 09, 2008, 10:19:37 AM
Then this would only result in longer lvl gain, hence more low, low-mid levels. That can't be bad. Actually I wouldn't mind if all PCs were capped at level 10 across the board. A lvl 20 in this setting could be rather dangerous to the whole demi-plane. (even high-mid levels are rather a bit OP for this setting, so it starts at around lvl 13). But THAT is another topic. So I think it will be enough just to remove the message.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Ric on December 09, 2008, 10:43:12 AM
It's most likely you just feeling like it was going faster.  I knew some players who felt like they were leveling faster than they really were (Addiction, anyone?)

I've had characters that were consistently capped between 1-10 (due to being dragged places a lot and never spending time chilling out) and others that I were only playing once every like 3 days due to the character not requiring much to do daily.  They both reached 10 in the same time reference.

Here's two fun-facts: 

You can get to level 4 during the first day of your character's creation (hardcore grinding and ending up at proverbial wall when you do), and then wait 4-5 days to be back to "Mist message"

You can get to level 4 during the first 4-5 days by doing exp-grinds here and there, and then still be at Mist Message.

The only exception is, for the first fun-fact, you don't have to wait.  You can keep going, and you'll still progress the same speed as the latter.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Rex on December 09, 2008, 10:44:36 AM
Then this would only result in longer lvl gain, hence more low, low-mid levels. That can't be bad. Actually I wouldn't mind if all PCs were capped at level 10 across the board. A lvl 20 in this setting could be rather dangerous to the whole demi-plane. (even high-mid levels are rather a bit OP for this setting, so it starts at around lvl 13). But THAT is another topic. So I think it will be enough just to remove the message.

Caps Stink.  Level 20's are easily handled by the Environment should people choose to handle it.  Removing the message though, much like removing the viewable XP, takes XP out of the equation.  You Level, when you level.  No bait no tease.

~Rex

Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Ric on December 09, 2008, 10:49:52 AM
Also, on the topic of removing the cap message, here's my counter-argument to people not knowing whether they are capped or not:

The first message you get should be enough to let you know if you're capped or not.  When you are told "Close to nothing has happened" from killing demonlogists, the dragon, ice queen, etc. that should mean something.  When you get "You feel proud of what you have accomplished" from killing trash-mobs, then that also should give you a "!" signal that you're probably neglecting.

Remove the cap message, let people use their 'gain' as judgment.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: engelfire on December 09, 2008, 12:15:08 PM
yes that would actually be good.
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: mayvind on December 09, 2008, 02:29:46 PM
Anyone want me to write guild to harvesting dungeons with maxi gain in XP ?   :mrgreen:  :lol:
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Rex on December 09, 2008, 02:34:30 PM
Anyone want me to write guild to harvesting dungeons with maxi gain in XP ?   :mrgreen:  :lol:

I could care less about maximum XP gain from a dungeon.  It's Reward vs the Risk that I tend to focus on.

~Rex
Title: Re: XP Cap : Is it supposed to take that long to wear off?
Post by: Knas on December 10, 2008, 11:02:32 AM
Okay - I think everyone has voiced their oppinions and this topic has served it's purpose.

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