Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist
Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Rex on July 24, 2008, 10:42:09 AM
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I like how I can make a greater agarat run with a guesture, but not even a decrepit skeleton is afraid of my turn undead.
if your cha is high enoug ward gesture kicks butt honestly if i ever made a sorc i'd be with at least a 12 wis and then buff the cha out the arse like i did with drudoc she turns werebeasties like crazy even negs a few times and i think but i'm not sure julia too correct me if i'm wrong eo :D
I would actually like to see a few things set up that would work without having to be a Buff machine. Also in reply to the Turn Undead vs Warding Gestures Undead, warding gestures DOES trump Turn Undead. I think that mechanic should be looked at a bit since warding gestures SHOULD be inferior to Turn Undead.
~Rex
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I like how I can make a greater agarat run with a guesture, but not even a decrepit skeleton is afraid of my turn undead.
if your cha is high enoug ward gesture kicks butt honestly if i ever made a sorc i'd be with at least a 12 wis and then buff the cha out the arse like i did with drudoc she turns werebeasties like crazy even negs a few times and i think but i'm not sure julia too correct me if i'm wrong eo :D
I would actually like to see a few things set up that would work without having to be a Buff machine. Also in reply to the Turn Undead vs Warding Gestures Undead, warding gestures DOES trump Turn Undead. I think that mechanic should be looked at a bit since warding gestures SHOULD be inferior to Turn Undead.
~Rex
In many (if not most cases) Warding Gesture is inferior to Turn Undead (and should always be). It requires a high CHA to be of any use and affected creatures get a saving throw. It is, admittedly, quite powerful vs. mindless undead as they'll fail their saves often but against the more powerful it's next to useless unless your CHA is rather high.
It be worth to try to limit it to using the basic CHA score rather than the modified score including buffs (not sure if that's possible though).
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It should be possible. That would relegate the buff to the rightfully more powerful Turn Undead as opposed to the warding gesture.
~Rex
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It should be possible. That would relegate the buff to the rightfully more powerful Turn Undead as opposed to the warding gesture.
~Rex
then essientailly though you reduce warding gesture to being only useful to sorc and bards and a lesser extent some paladins and clerics
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Can I ask what the reasoning is behind not wanting the buffs to apply? I kind of understand it in the crafting system (though I still don't completely agree with that decision), but here it really doesn't make much sense to me. If someone's had a mystical enhancement to his force of will and personality (or however you want to define Charisma) then it should apply whenever he's using it. Unless this feat is meant to be capped at a certain effect (I'm not too familiar with how it works), this strikes me as exactly the situation that stat buffs were designed for. Wouldn't it be like saying that Bull's Strength should only affect melee attack and damage, but not add into bashing attempts? Or that Cat's Grace should affect ranged attack and reflex saves, but not weapon finesse melee attacks?
The buff would affect both Turn Undead and Warding Gesture. It seems to me that if the latter is outperforming the former when both are buffed, the problem you're looking to solve isn't with the stat buffs, it's with how the two powers work. Maybe Warding Gesture needs to be toned down overall.
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The buff would affect both Turn Undead and Warding Gesture. It seems to me that if the latter is outperforming the former when both are buffed, the problem you're looking to solve isn't with the stat buffs, it's with how the two powers work. Maybe Warding Gesture needs to be toned down overall.
it already HAS been turned down before when i first got it with drudoc you could be in an circle around say undead and use it like turn undead not you have to be in direct line of sight and a certain close range for it to work plus i think the monsters that can get effected by it had there wis/will's adjusted slightly
my honest opinon with two pcs playing with this feat one a cha whore and another not the feat is best used at lvls 6+ as thats when it gets honestly effective for those that are cha based
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Can I ask what the reasoning is behind not wanting the buffs to apply? I kind of understand it in the crafting system (though I still don't completely agree with that decision), but here it really doesn't make much sense to me. If someone's had a mystical enhancement to his force of will and personality (or however you want to define Charisma) then it should apply whenever he's using it. Unless this feat is meant to be capped at a certain effect (I'm not too familiar with how it works), this strikes me as exactly the situation that stat buffs were designed for. Wouldn't it be like saying that Bull's Strength should only affect melee attack and damage, but not add into bashing attempts? Or that Cat's Grace should affect ranged attack and reflex saves, but not weapon finesse melee attacks?
The buff would affect both Turn Undead and Warding Gesture. It seems to me that if the latter is outperforming the former when both are buffed, the problem you're looking to solve isn't with the stat buffs, it's with how the two powers work. Maybe Warding Gesture needs to be toned down overall.
Turn Undead is a class ability. It's something the Class is supposed to be able to do, and do well, in combination with other things that class can do.
Warding Gesture, is basically the equivalent of flashing gang signs. It's the Gesture itself that has the effect, NOT the person flashing it.
~Rex
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Turn Undead is a class ability. It's something the Class is supposed to be able to do, and do well, in combination with other things that class can do.
Warding Gesture, is basically the equivalent of flashing gang signs. It's the Gesture itself that has the effect, NOT the person flashing it.
So are you suggesting that it should be Dex-based? Or that it should have a set effect not dependent on any stat? Either of those fit what your describing. I'm still not clear on why if it's based on Charisma, it should be based only on unmodified Charisma.
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Turn Undead is a class ability. It's something the Class is supposed to be able to do, and do well, in combination with other things that class can do.
Warding Gesture, is basically the equivalent of flashing gang signs. It's the Gesture itself that has the effect, NOT the person flashing it.
So are you suggesting that it should be Dex-based? Or that it should have a set effect not dependent on any stat? Either of those fit what your describing. I'm still not clear on why if it's based on Charisma, it should be based only on unmodified Charisma.
Because it's NOT anything, it's a Rude Gesture, that the monster finds offensive. Not something that really should be boostable by magic, but something that could reasonably be more effective, if used by someone with more force of personality.
~Rex
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Because it's NOT anything, it's a Rude Gesture, that the monster finds offensive. Not something that really should be boostable by magic, but something that could reasonably be more effective, if used by someone with more force of personality.
~Rex
But isnt that what a charisma buff would do? Make you feel more confident, thus increasing your force of personality, thereby making your gesture more intimidating/offensive/whatever?
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But isnt that what a charisma buff would do? Make you feel more confident, thus increasing your force of personality, thereby making your gesture more intimidating/offensive/whatever?
Exactly. This is the point that has me confused. It's not Eagle's Improved Warding Gesture, it's Eagle's Splendor, and it affects everything Charisma-based. If someone with a stronger force of personality gets a better effect, then someone whose force of personality has been artificially increased should also get a better effect. It goes back to my examples earlier of Bull's Strength and Cat's Grace only affecting some uses of those stats and not everything.
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Because it's NOT anything, it's a Rude Gesture, that the monster finds offensive. Not something that really should be boostable by magic, but something that could reasonably be more effective, if used by someone with more force of personality.
~Rex
But isnt that what a charisma buff would do? Make you feel more confident, thus increasing your force of personality, thereby making your gesture more intimidating/offensive/whatever?
I guess that depends on how one would view the buff... I've always thought of Eagle's Splendor as making the recipient more attractive rather than more confident, hence my suggestion not to count in the buff.
The same applies to, say, the CHA buff from bathing in the tub in Tigan's Rest. It would make you more attractive since you're clean and don't smell bad, but it wouldn't necessarily make you more confident.
Basically, the way I see it:
Warding Gesture is presenting the holy symbol in front of the vampire and holding him at bay with your own force of personality/will.
Warding Gesture with CHA buff (Eagle's Splendor or whatever) is presenting the holy symbol in front of the vampire, holding him at bay with your own force of personality/will and looking good while doing it. And I highly doubt the vampire cares whether you look good or not.
Don't get me wrong, I'd benefit alot from being able to get my fighter's CHA buffed and using it with Warding Gesture but not counting the buffs seems a rather fair way to balance Warding Gesture against Turn Undead.
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Because it's NOT anything, it's a Rude Gesture, that the monster finds offensive. Not something that really should be boostable by magic, but something that could reasonably be more effective, if used by someone with more force of personality.
~Rex
But isnt that what a charisma buff would do? Make you feel more confident, thus increasing your force of personality, thereby making your gesture more intimidating/offensive/whatever?
I guess that depends on how one would view the buff... I've always thought of Eagle's Splendor as making the recipient more attractive rather than more confident, hence my suggestion not to count in the buff.
The same applies to, say, the CHA buff from bathing in the tub in Tigan's Rest. It would make you more attractive since you're clean and don't smell bad, but it wouldn't necessarily make you more confident.
Basically, the way I see it:
Warding Gesture is presenting the holy symbol in front of the vampire and holding him at bay with your own force of personality/will.
Warding Gesture with CHA buff (Eagle's Splendor or whatever) is presenting the holy symbol in front of the vampire, holding him at bay with your own force of personality/will and looking good while doing it. And I highly doubt the vampire cares whether you look good or not.
Don't get me wrong, I'd benefit alot from being able to get my fighter's CHA buffed and using it with Warding Gesture but not counting the buffs seems a rather fair way to balance Warding Gesture against Turn Undead.
Right. Turn Undead is the power of a Clerics Faith and the Power of that Clerics Divine Patron. Holy power that can at high enough levels, make Undead Explode.
Warding Gesture, is a "gang sign". Sometimes it's a good idea to run from the Crips or the bloods, other times, you are just not going to care about how good looking the sign flasher is.
~Rex
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Yeah, but one of the things that got emphasized a lot with the introduction of the sorcerer was that Charisma is not how attractive you are, and is instead based on this nebulous "force of personality" idea. There were some early ask-the-designer articles posted on WotC's website right after 3e came out talking about how Charisma is Charisma is Charisma. The Charisma that factors into your Diplomacy roll is the same Charisma that determines your sorcerer/bard spellcasting ability. A change in your Charisma affects everything. For that matter, let's look at the text of the Eagle's Splendor spell from the 3.5 SRD:
The transmuted creature becomes more poised, articulate, and personally forceful. The spell grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Charisma, adding the usual benefits to Charisma-based skill checks and other uses of the Charisma modifier. Sorcerers and bards (and other spellcasters who rely on Charisma) affected by this spell do not gain any additional bonus spells for the increased Charisma, but the save DCs for spells they cast while under this spell’s effect do increase.
(Emphasis added)
It's not about being prettier.
So what exactly is a "warding gesture"? (I'm not being snarky, I don't have the text handy.) If it's basically a specialized form of intimidation, like a gang sign, then Charisma should apply, and a more forceful person should be better at it regardless of why they're more forceful. If it's a ritual that if performed correctly creates or channels some sort of supernatural power, then it should be analogized to one of the spellcasting styles and turn undead, in which case Charisma is appropriate (or Wisdom, though I could see less of an argument for Intelligence being the stat in play). The solutions that come to mind that don't involve Charisma would have it either be Dex-based (how well you perform the complex movements) or an automatic per-use effect you get when you take the feat and not based on any stat at all (you either know the secret handshake or you don't).
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Hmm.. while it is in part the necessity of the precision of how the gesture is displayed. The fact that it works is more to do with the conviction that it actually works, I would therefore believe it would be tied to most likely both Charisma and Wisdom scores, obviously taking whichever one is the higher stat bonus for effect. As it is in part a force of personality that is channeled through the conviction of believing the gesture works.
Charisma encompasses many things, from how you talk, how you stand, how you move, how you look, how you dress, how you act. What are the one things that most charismatic people give off, it's confidence, they look, feel, act and are confident. Some are attractive others are not. While an uncharismatic person could be nice looking, they are very unsure, un-confident and look, feel, and act awkwardly and tend to be shunned for such. Which is why I find it funny when those unappealing presence types are shining beacons of starlight gathering others to them easily. Not to say that uncharismatic people don't draw or have friends, just that they do it so easily or garner it with award winning role playing skillz. :) (not bein crass about it.. just amused)
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Is there ANY point in an 18th level PC taking it if they only have 10 Cha? Besides RP
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Is there ANY point in an 18th level PC taking it if they only have 10 Cha? Besides RP
Yeah you learned some Gangsta Street Cred Yo........Now you can Flashizzile them Signs, make them Po Po lovein Undeads skip to steppin Yo.
~Rex
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The DC is based on your level, too. Yes, it would be powerful if you took it at 18th level, even with only 10 charisma.
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Perhaps we could drop the warding sign being a gang sign metaphor? I feel it's a little insulting to people who might have the feat since it belittles it to nothing else than a... gang sign. Let's remember that warding gesture per excellence is the one against the evil eye.
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Is there ANY point in an 18th level PC taking it if they only have 10 Cha? Besides RP
you couldnt actually because you need a min of 12 wis AND 12 cha to take it
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Well - there goes that option :lol:
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Haha, good point there.
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Wilhelm has a warding gesture, and only an 11 charisma. The requisites amy not be being checked properly if it's supposed to need a 12 charisma.
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Wilhelm has a warding gesture, and only an 11 charisma. The requisites amy not be being checked properly if it's supposed to need a 12 charisma.
It's absolutely correct... the prerequisites are WIS 11, CHA 11
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Wilhelm has a warding gesture, and only an 11 charisma. The requisites amy not be being checked properly if it's supposed to need a 12 charisma.
It's absolutely correct... the prerequisites are WIS 11, CHA 11
really? strange i recall the description seeming to be 12 and 12 hmm maybe check the descrip for a misprint? or bug on what the min stats need to be? or maybe i'm wrong heh
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I'd rather we didn't nerf it.
I have been looking very forward to putting a point to it and grabbing it at level 16 (my wis is now ten, hoping to add the point at 6)
And yes, I am expecting it to be rather powerfull at that level. Level 16 with +5 from cha aught to be dc 23 or something?
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I'd rather we didn't nerf it.
I have been looking very forward to putting a point to it and grabbing it at level 16 (my wis is now ten, hoping to add the point at 6)
And yes, I am expecting it to be rather powerfull at that level. Level 16 with +5 from cha aught to be dc 23 or something?
I don't want anything nerfed really but my point is, Warding Gesture (vs undead), should be LESS effective, then Turn Undead, for reasons being that it IS not the holy divine right power possessed by Clerics and Paladins. It's the same thing as tossing salt over ones shoulder to prevent bad luck, leaving milk out for the brownie, and spitting between two fingers to ward off demons. It's Hedge Witchery at best, and should never over shadow the Real versions.
~Rex
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Both Warding Gesture and Turn Undead work as they should as per Ravenloft canon.
Turn Undead is weaker than it would normally be because of the Unspoken Pact and the realm tampering with your clerical abilities; much like how necromantic spells are empowered in Ravenloft. Warding Gesture is a superstition thing, you learnt a gesture in your life that was supposed to ward off evils and it turns out that this gesture actually does work (either because of the conviction put into it or because it is a weakness of the monster type).
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Warding Gesture, is basically the equivalent of flashing gang signs. It's the Gesture itself that has the effect, NOT the person flashing it.
I would say this is incorrect. It's been restated oh so many times that the most powerful force in the multiverse is ~belief~. Anybody familiar enough with planar campaigns knows this, through belief miraculous things are possible and it works anywhere more or less. If enough people believe in something truly, things happen.
Gods can die. Gods can be born. Gods can be resurrected. Entire parts of planes can shift to other planes. People can become deified. People can change the entire way the multiverse works around them, all through pure belief alone. Entire societies are born through these philosophies driven by thought-guilds around the planes.
The power of gods is severely hampered in RL due to the nature of the demiplane itself, belief however is a constant of reality. Warding gesture is nothing different than any of that. If a person fervently believes it works, it works.
I'd rather enjoy seeing the effects of what would happen if a Dustman found herself in Ravenloft.
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Ruxandra... what you just said makes so much of a point all of sudden... Dustman in Ravenloft!
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I'm not familiar with Warding Gesture, personally, but a few thoughts on the matter...
In a place like Ravenloft, it seems very appropriate that some individuals who have had extended contact with the creatures of the plane would want some manner of secondary defense past their primary mode of attack. A bit of "hedge witchery" seems appropriate in this case - especially what with all the muddled faiths in this setting.
If you want to drop a feat slot on Warding Gesture, so be it.
However, I also agree that this should be second-class relative to Turn Undead.
While belief might be the most powerful force in the multiverse, the focus and conduit of said belief is also immensely important. A cleric, who has been trained to impose his beliefs upon the physical world must surely be more adept at channeling the positive energy required to destroy, turn or control (I guess in this case you're actually channeling negative energy? unsure) undead beings.
Charisma or not, it's a class convention that has been around for a while. Just because a rogue has been taught how to "ward against the evil eye" doesn't mean he will be able to do so more effectively than someone who makes it their business and profession to familiarize themselves with such arcana.
Different classes do different things and are good/bad at them depending upon the class/feat/skill choices they make. It's hard to be a jack of all trades.
Once again, just a new player's opinion... and I've never even used the feat.
It just sounds somewhat overpowered from what I've read (DC 24 turn Evil/Planar/Undead on rogues/sorcerors? Seriously?)
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However, I also agree that this should be second-class relative to Turn Undead.
While belief might be the most powerful force in the multiverse, the focus and conduit of said belief is also immensely important. A cleric, who has been trained to impose his beliefs upon the physical world must surely be more adept at channeling the positive energy required to destroy, turn or control (I guess in this case you're actually channeling negative energy? unsure) undead beings.
The problem with your surmisation is you assume too many things. You assume both characters (the gesturerer and the turner) are doing the same thing and that all things are equal in this particular location. Neither are true.
A cleric, more or less has a living, personal conduit to a god somewhere else. Through this conduit spells come, prayers can be heard, and energy can be channeled. All of this is affected by planar influences and specifics once that cleric leaves the prime plane or their god's home plane. The further out they go, the more their spell might diminishes (usually), energy channeling power might be utterly compromised to the point of being unavailable, etc. Ravenloft horribly compromises the conduits of clerics in ways that it's theorized they don't even have true conduits to their gods anymore, but are plied with power from some other source (gods don't send omens or interfere, seem incontactable, etc).
Belief on the other hand, is a prime source of power unaffected by any plane and yes, if true enough and strong enough, can triumph over gods. Making hand gestures isn't important, belief the hand gesture works is important (making a manikin doing the hand gesture and setting it in the open won't ward off a vampire... nor will someone doing it who doesn't really believe, ie, doesn't have the feat).
It's very much akin to the fervent believer holding up a holy symbol of the god they believe in to ward off a vampire. That character doesn't have to be a cleric for that to work. That character's god doesn't even have to be known to the vampire (doesn't even have to be a real god even). It has nothing to do with the god at all, merely the belief of the true believer.
Turn undead (like magic) is based wholly on planar mechanics and metaphysics. In Ravenloft, at times and places it doesn't even work or is altered. It's very much like spotty cell phone service, being uncontactable due to interference randomly. But your belief is very much like a monk's Ki. It's a constant, tappable well-spring unaffected by such things since you and you alone are the originator of it's power.
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Warding gesture may be a straight conversion from the PnP material, but no PnP DM I've ever came across would allow you to gain supernatural stats like we have here.
"Here's my character sheet."
"Um, what's with this 20 Charisma? No."
"But I haven't even put my next 5 points into Charisma yet as he gains levels to 20! And, ... he's like a beacon of personal power."
"Beacon of power? Ok, he spontaneously bursts into flames. Now. Dead. And a cow falls from space and lands on his ashes. Roll a new character."
With more realistic Charisma scores, I think Turn Undead would be more competitive with Warding Gesture.
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if i recall correctly, and i have to look it up once i get home, even in ravenloft turning undead is still suspose to work the same as anywhere else. It is simply that the undead are much more resistant to it than anywhere else. ie typically to turn a lvl 2 or 3 undead you would need 4-6 cleric with an alright cha, but in ravenloft, to turn these undead you would have to be 8-10 i think. . or something like that. The undead can still take damage from turning, and even lesser undead can be destroied by it.
I will look it up once i get home to make sure i am correct there on that, but i am fairly certain that it is onyl their turning level that is raised, and only epic undead which really can't be turned or are immune to it. A misc skeleton would still run the risk of being turned to dust by a high level cleric.
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Undead can't be destroyed by turning in ravenloft. My paladin at level 4, with a horrible charisma, could still turn the weaker skeletons. There's ne reason a cleric with good charisma at 4th wouldn't be better at it.
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Undead gain +2 turn resistance in Ravenloft. Turn Undead remaisn unaffected.
Ruxandras assessment is correct, Warding Gesture has nothing to do with any god or particular denomination- in the book "I, Strahd" Strahd describes feeling a buffet of "wind" ever time a Barovian makes the undescribed "sign against evil" (it is of course not powerful enough to affect him and barely noticable with time), suggesting that pretty much every Barovian peasent knows a warding gesture with some minimal effect.
Turn Undead and Warding Gesture are different things. Turning undead is brandishing the power of your will and your god directly in a flash of light, warding gesture is making a superstitious symbol and hoping to god it works. Both are affected by how confident you are, but Turn Undead is made more affective by your gods blessings.
Also, Warding Gesture inflicts fear in said monster for a short time, so long as they see the gesture and fail their save. Turned creatures are, well, TURNED (which in PNP terms is not exactly the same and is simply made into fear by the NWN engine) and there is a possibility they die instantly as well.
Warding Gesture cannot be used on the same creature twice in the same day.
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Warding guesture is more effective because it has no limit to how many things you can turn. I was in the northern part of the sullen woods, and I had the entire map load of shadow fiends chasing me, and I made about 30 of them run screaming from one guesture.
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Next person that tries to tell me, that a Peasent living in the scrub bush, has more Belief, with his raised two fingers and spit through them make the undead run away power, then a Faith Driven, implement of the Gods that can raise the Dead with a snap of his fingers cleric, is going to earn my eternal ire. In terms of Oomph, againt Undead, Turn Undead should be more effective then the warding gesture version. If warding gesture is more effective in game then that's a miscarry of justice as far as balance goes.
~Rex
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Yes but Warding gesture can only be used on the same creature ONCE, Turn Undead can be used PERPETUALLY. Turn undead can also DESTROY undead.
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Turn undead can also DESTROY undead.
Not here it can't.
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Turn undead can also DESTROY undead.
Not here it can't.
Don't think the evil clerics can control them either (at least not without the spell).
~Rex
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Yes, it can. I've done it, to weaker undead. As for rebuking undead, thats a bioware lacking.
Why this sudden stink over gesture? It's not even that ubur of an ability- you have to take a FEAT for each creature type you want to affect. Turn undead is an automatically accrued ability.
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Next person that tries to tell me, that a Peasent living in the scrub bush, has more Belief, with his raised two fingers and spit through them make the undead run away power, then a Faith Driven, implement of the Gods that can raise the Dead with a snap of his fingers cleric, is going to earn my eternal ire. In terms of Oomph, againt Undead, Turn Undead should be more effective then the warding gesture version. If warding gesture is more effective in game then that's a miscarry of justice as far as balance goes.
~Rex
Ohnoes! I can has eternal ire? I'd say it again, but it's pointless, just reread my post if you want to give me ire. ~Belief~ is the most important power in the multiverse, bar none. In the multiverse, there are level 1 characters who can imagine level 20 characters out of existence with a thought, walk around the undead with impunity at any level, channel divine spells up to 4th level from gods that don't exist (merely by believing they do) and find loopholes in the fabric of existence that allow them to do fantastic things merely by belief (and proper roleplay, of course).
Clerics have very little to do with actual belief or even faith in D&D. You don't need to have much faith when you can wake up and enact 5 miracles before breakfast (even minor healing). It's a fact of life at that point. However, large masses of people fervently believing in something truly are more than enough to enact change on a metaphysical level in D&D reality. Given that demiplanes themselves are indescribable with any consistency as their originators can literally set in place the laws of reality they have (including gravity, physical makeup, magical law and the like), Ravenloft can change at a glance overnight if whatever dark agency in command of it decides on a whim to cut off all access to the Positive Energy Plane or even nullify magic altogether.
Turn/rebuke/command undead is not fancy. It's not even constant. In most planes it's not even usable. It's merely using one's conduit to a god to redirect-siphon positive/negative energy to their position from it's plane. It's not holy power, it's not even godstuff, it's the equivalent of channeling the elemental-stuff of an inner plane to your position and as such it's entirely mechanical and subject to planar metaphysics and geography, of which Ravenloft hampers and alters very much.
As far "miscarriages of justice" in balance goes, last I checked spending a feat and relying on 2 stats (wisdom and charisma both) for efficiency is a lot more costly than "free with an uberclass" and relying purely on charisma alone.
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I have yet to see a single undead destroyed by my turn undead. I would figure a level 4 cleric with 14 CHA could destroy a simple decrepit skeleton.
Also, to put into perspective the belief thing...
You cannot compare the average joe to a priest or bishop. Now then, there may be settings that allow these people who somehow transcend reality to believe in abstract concepts, but thats frankly very, very, very rare in ANY form, fantasy or not. Clerics are vessels of their own god's will and might. Simply put, most people who use superstitious signs don't have the kind of belief that a Priest has for his/her god. Its frankly stupid to think that someone tossing salt over their shoulder has more belief in that superstition than someone who has dedicated their entire LIFE to service of a single entity, and taken vows, oaths, and sworn to follow tenets of that one faith dutifully, forever.
Right, to continue.. *second edit*
I don't think that a priest who wakes every day and thinks "Oh, *yawn* another 5 miracles today" should keep their powers for long. These powers are granted through their god, and someone who stops frankly giving a damn will draw the ire of that god eventually. That example is a lack of belief, or rather, a lax in true belief and worship. I don't know where you get these level ones thinking people or things into existence, but i can say quite frankly, this is NOT the multiverse. This is one single demiplane. Stop drawing from abstract sources that are made for epic-level mass magic campagins that can have a simple commoner doing the most ridiculous of thing becase he believes he can, somehow with the fervent belief to make Cadderly himself look like an apostate. It's embarassing, I agree, that too few clerics actually RP their devotion and oaths to their gods, or even do the research for it, but it doesn't suddenly make this single thing better in any way.
I agree, it takes more to get the feat and its in itself not too powerful, its rather balanced with its requirements. Turn undead is limited though, mostly being used as a stepping stone to a Divine Might or Divine Shield use.
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That's because here in the demiplane of dread, undead aren't destroyed by it. Just turned.
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I think i've obliterated Skeletal Children before.
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Wow ive got no idea what's going on in this conversation.
Cant we just use the damn game mechanics for a change? Lol.
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I think i've obliterated Skeletal Children before.
i recall a few updates back they adjusted the tu rn undead was this oblitering before that change or since then?
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Warding Gesture cannot be used on the same creature twice in the same day.
I've turned the same creature more than once in one day with warding guesture.
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Warding Gesture cannot be used on the same creature twice in the same day.
I've turned the same creature more than once in one day with warding guesture.
Same.
~Rex
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In NWN, once per day means till you rest or once time per rest. Was this done without resting at all?
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Five zombies, three ran in fear. I killed the two, then the remaining three went back to normal and I scared two of them off again with another ward.
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Five zombies, three ran in fear. I killed the two, then the remaining three went back to normal and I scared two of them off again with another ward.
Will it work on ones that weren't feared the first time? My interpretation was, if you failed to repel them with it, the later arrempts auto failed. Wilhelm has used it once, I think, in the last 9 levels, so I can't say how well it works.
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I've played Ping Pong with Warding gesture before. Don't know if it's changed, but for awhile you definitely could use it over and over again. Don't recall off hand how many uses it gets.
~Rex
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I've played Ping Pong with Warding gesture before. Don't know if it's changed, but for awhile you definitely could use it over and over again. Don't recall off hand how many uses it gets.
~Rex
It gets 3 uses per day/resting period. I'm not sure whether it can be used twice in a row on a creature that previously made it's save, but I'll test it in game.
Edit: Tested it in game and it can be used repeatedly on the same creature, tried it with a zombie of some kind and a wererat (yes, I like the feat and took both versions :) )
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(http://perkbrian.com/forums/Uploads/MummyFear.PNG)
The feat description doesn't say anything about not being able to use it multiple times on the same creature, though.