Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist

Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: k_moustakas on June 09, 2008, 12:54:10 PM

Title: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: k_moustakas on June 09, 2008, 12:54:10 PM
Taking into account the rules...

if I am level 11 ie fighter. Am I allowed to multiclass to ie cleric or will this be in violation of the multiclassing rules?
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: Nefensis on June 09, 2008, 12:55:35 PM
It would be yes, 11fighter/1 cleric dosnt work
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: Ryltar/ Robert Archer on June 09, 2008, 01:44:45 PM
wasnt it changed though that multi classing can be done long as the second class is like say 15 fighter/ 5 cleric? wasnt it changed so things like that are allowed?
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: ethinos on June 09, 2008, 01:50:31 PM
The current rule that applies here:
Quote
Classes must be no more than 10 levels apart when multiclassing.

11-1=10, so I think a level 11 fighter/level 1 cleric is fine. But if you hit level 12 before multiclassing, you'd be stuck.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: Rex on June 09, 2008, 01:58:48 PM
The current rule that applies here:
Quote
Classes must be no more than 10 levels apart when multiclassing.

11-1=10, so I think a level 11 fighter/level 1 cleric is fine. But if you hit level 12 before multiclassing, you'd be stuck.

Basic math shows it to be true, and who said you'd never use 11-1 in the real world?

~Rex
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: Nefensis on June 09, 2008, 02:30:32 PM
From what i understood its that extra level that is a problem, if it was 10fighter 1 cleric It would be fine. I cant be OVER 10 lvls appart and the eleventh level is the issue. But i might be wrong.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: k_moustakas on June 09, 2008, 02:35:44 PM
good thing I'm asking while >I< am still level 10 then :p

Some official answer on this please?
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: Rex on June 09, 2008, 02:36:45 PM
From what i understood its that extra level that is a problem, if it was 10fighter 1 cleric It would be fine. I cant be OVER 10 lvls appart and the eleventh level is the issue. But i might be wrong.

11 -1 is still 10.  That's not Greater then 10 levels apart therefore it works.  Besides why Multiclass?  Don't Swim with the fishes, beach yourself like a proper single classed whale.  :D

~Rex
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: ethinos on June 09, 2008, 03:12:28 PM
From what i understood its that extra level that is a problem, if it was 10fighter 1 cleric It would be fine. I cant be OVER 10 lvls appart and the eleventh level is the issue. But i might be wrong.

You are wrong, unfortunately. Once he takes that first level, he's ten levels apart. That's why I said if he was level 12 though, he'd not be able to multiclass without a rebuild or without somehow losing some levels (like by respawning).
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: Badbelly on June 09, 2008, 03:16:06 PM
Multi classing is for noobs and nooblets. What was the question again? *wonders off, muttering to himself*
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: Kung Fu Orc on June 09, 2008, 03:35:30 PM
It's fine so long as you END no more then 10 lvls apart. 11 fighter 1 cleric is fine, but when you multiclass you have to take 2 lvls in a row of that class before you can take another.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: k_moustakas on August 15, 2008, 03:40:01 PM
Sorry for bringing this back up again. I really need a Dev or a DM to give an official answer, because asking random people has given me random answers.

Does the 10 level apart rule count at any stage or the final level 20-esque stage?

Example: I am now level 13 bard. Can I take 7 straight fighter levels? Can I multi class in general to anything other than prestige?

Repeat, need an OFFICIAL answer. Thanks
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: archonzero on August 15, 2008, 04:15:43 PM
  I also have a question of concern regarding multiclassing and level differences.
:arrow:  -IF- you take a class you are required by server rules to take a minimum of 5 levels correct?  Or does this only apply to the standard classes or all classes including PRCs?  Or could a player take 16 levels in standard multi-classing and take less than 5 levels in a PRC?
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: Serevain on August 15, 2008, 04:30:49 PM
16/4 combos can't be done here, to avoid situations like a guy apping for SD then taking one level just for HIPS
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: ethinos on August 15, 2008, 04:45:30 PM
Your levels at all times must never be more than 10 levels apart. If you are a level 13 bard, you cannot multiclass now. If you take a PrC, you MUST take 5 levels of it by the time you hit 20, but the 10 levels apart still is a factor.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: kanedellesk on August 15, 2008, 04:56:25 PM
Definitive Answer:

15/5 is fine. 16/4 is not. No two classes can be more than 10 levels apart.

If you are a level 13 bard, you cannot multiclass now.

Yes, he can.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: ethinos on August 15, 2008, 05:02:02 PM
How? If he takes a level in another class, he'll be 13/1. That's 12 apart.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: Kaspar on August 15, 2008, 05:02:42 PM
I believe they mean it's a 10 level differance, or something of that sort, at level -20-. :)
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: ethinos on August 15, 2008, 05:04:46 PM
Here's the rule:
Quote
- Classes must be no more than 10 levels apart when multiclassing.

It makes no mention of only being applicable upon hitting level 20, and speaks in the present tense. Some subraces and monstrous classes won't even hit level 20.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: Bad_Bud on August 15, 2008, 05:09:16 PM
I guess that makes it level 18 for them, then.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: ethinos on August 15, 2008, 05:11:50 PM
A tiefling with vampire DNA would hit 12 max I think, for example. But notice that the ruling doesn't say that you have to END up 10 levels apart. By the wording it implies that AT ALL TIMES you must be no more than 10 apart.

I interpret governing documents as I manage homeowner associations (hiss!). If this is not the way the rule is meant to be enforced, it should be clarified better. Maybe a Dev can speak about this soon.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: kanedellesk on August 15, 2008, 05:15:57 PM
Eth, quit being so anal retentive  :P
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: ethinos on August 15, 2008, 05:16:32 PM
Bah. I know when I'm right. :p
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: archonzero on August 15, 2008, 05:49:08 PM
  All I was asking was about the minimum requirement.. I'm already aware of the 10 level difference in this post.  16 standard -multi-classed- levels and 4 in PRC was what I was referring to and it was answered.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: k_moustakas on August 15, 2008, 05:58:27 PM
infero is a dm and ethinos a council member. WHo decides who's right? I need a definite final answer and then this subject locked. Not a discussion about it lol

Don't want to go one way and then learn the person who told me to go one way was wrong.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: ethinos on August 15, 2008, 06:03:05 PM
Who is right? A developer probably. Which is who I'm waiting to chime in on. This entire thread has been a discussion and no reason for it to not to continue to be.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: kanedellesk on August 15, 2008, 06:15:58 PM
Much as I hate to admit this, ethinos I think is correct. God, I feel so dirty saying that. I need a bath.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: k_moustakas on August 15, 2008, 07:13:14 PM
Because discussions don't give definite answers lol. This is a rule's question.

Yeah, some developer, tell us what is going on!
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: ethinos on August 15, 2008, 07:25:48 PM
Because discussions don't give definite answers lol. This is a rule's question.

You tendered a question to an open forum. You should expect discussion, heh. If you wanted an answer and not get discussion involved, a PM to one of the Developers would've been your better option. Still, this discussion was interesting see how many ways the rule could be interpreted and what the general consensus was. Not only that, but it also spawned a second question that was answered a little earlier.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: ThAnswr on August 15, 2008, 07:31:33 PM
Because discussions don't give definite answers lol. This is a rule's question.

You tendered a question to an open forum. You should expect discussion, heh. If you wanted an answer and not get discussion involved, a PM to one of the Developers would've been your better option. Still, this discussion was interesting see how many ways the rule could be interpreted and what the general consensus was. Not only that, but it also spawned a second question that was answered a little earlier.

We also found out you many be an anal retentive Homeowners Association manager.  Worth the price of admission.   :P
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: Bad_Bud on August 16, 2008, 04:12:51 AM
I don't think it should be at all times.  I think it should be based around what your character is going to end as, be it level 20 or level 12.  I don't see why it should make a difference when you take the levels.

I assume the rule is there to prevent powerbuilds, and generally speaking when someone waits until they're level 11-15 to start multiclassing, chances are their builds aren't powerbuilds or they would have taken the class earlier on to pocket some feats.

P.S. And don't start listing builds that are good when you multiclass after level 15... I said "chances are" :P
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: yakon on August 17, 2008, 10:42:52 AM
I don't think it should be at all times.  I think it should be based around what your character is going to end as, be it level 20 or level 12.  I don't see why it should make a difference when you take the levels.

I assume the rule is there to prevent powerbuilds, and generally speaking when someone waits until they're level 11-15 to start multiclassing, chances are their builds aren't powerbuilds or they would have taken the class earlier on to pocket some feats.

P.S. And don't start listing builds that are good when you multiclass after level 15... I said "chances are" :P

I agree
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: EO on August 17, 2008, 02:15:58 PM
You can't be 10 levels apart, the script will prevent you from levelling then. I think this starts once you have 11 levels in a class and more. You could be a 9 fighter / 10 rogue / 1 barbarian though since that's not breaking the rules, but not a 19 fighter / 1 barbarian.

This is valid at any level really, be it level 12 or 20. Also, the same applies for PrC's, though that's at level "20" (you must have 5 levels in a PrC by the time you hit your maximum level with ECL).
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: shadymerchant on August 17, 2008, 03:37:26 PM
The rule, as far as I understand it, is designed to stop 14/1 type builds. Ending with ten levels apart really waters it down. It's a good rule anyhow.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: Bad_Bud on August 17, 2008, 10:23:43 PM
But if someone perchance did make a 14/1 build (I believe what shadymerchant and other have been saying implies that this type of build is a powerbuild), they probably took the /1 as their first or second level, not as their fifteenth.  I think the Community Council should review this rule with that in mind.  I feel the rule being "at all times" instead of set for endgame only punishes the non-powergamers who decide far down the road that they want to change the path their character is taking.

I think this rule might be causing the gap between powerbuilders and casual roleplayers to widen, because powerbuilders (I have nothing against them) will always find a way to make their character powerful within the limits of the rules, so I don't see why restricting the latter levels of a single class character is going to help to balance the game.  A casual player that takes a level of rogue at level thirteen because it makes them happy or feel badass isn't going to wreck the game's balance.  They're stuck having to take at least (according to KungFuOrc, at least two of that level in a row) four more levels of that class anyway.  Please review.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: ethinos on August 17, 2008, 10:38:34 PM
However, I think part of the reason the rule is in place is because even one level of certain classes gives you handy benefits.

Shadowdancer=HiPS
Monk=Lots. All I gotta say.
Barbarian=Rage, faster movement
Wizard/Sorcerer=Familiar, ability to use mage gear, scrolls, etc, without needing UMD.

The rule seems to have been put in place to prevent powerbuilding, but it does affect the casual gamer as well. Sometimes, rules cannot be made to satisfy everyone, all the time.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: failed.bard on August 17, 2008, 10:49:33 PM
There is a reason that paladins aren't allowed to multi-class to anything but a PrC here as well.  2 paladin levels gives immunity to all magical fear and all diseases.

As for the /1 being taken at 1st level, you can't multiclass at 2nd level, so it was taken later.
Title: Re: Multiclassing - I am level 11, can I still multiclass?
Post by: k_moustakas on August 18, 2008, 02:11:08 AM
Glad we have cleared it out. So I can't multiclass unless it's a prestige class.

My question is this:

Why is it considered better to go from 2/1 to 2/5 rather than 14/1 to 14/5?