Ravenloft: Prisoners of the Mist
Suggestions, Feedback & Bug Reports (OOC) => Module Feedback and Suggestions => Topic started by: Ravenous on February 25, 2008, 10:25:31 AM
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Is it just me or are those two spells the same just different element? If so, why was Firebrand nerfed, it is after all a fifth lvl spell? A very good fifth lvl spell that outrivals other spells but still...
Edit: Of course Call Lightning is one of the few good druid spells for offense, so I think its good that way.
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I guess someone can go ahead and argue that firebrand has a bigger DC? (omg +2 more)
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Considering it's supposed to only work outside on stormy days and have a 10 minute casting time, yes, it should be nerfed, but only so that it doesn't function indoors.
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Yeah, I forgot about that. Never understood how people have been using them in dungeons.
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Yeah, I forgot about that. Never understood how people have been using them in dungeons.
Simple, its the one really good offensive spell the Druids get :D, until really late that is.. Keep that spell the way it is, druids gotta have some fun.
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Remind me to build a "lightning cannon" druid that just spams Call Lightning via metamagic feats, good times.
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Call lightning inside is as cheesy as a bear sliding down the rope into the well. But what can we do.
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I'll bring up the issue of call lightning working indoors.
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Call lightning inside is as cheesy as a bear sliding down the rope into the well. But what can we do.
LMAO!!!!! I just pictured that in my head.. Hahaha. :lol:
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Yeah, I forgot about that. Never understood how people have been using them in dungeons.
Simple, its the one really good offensive spell the Druids get :D, until really late that is.. Keep that spell the way it is, druids gotta have some fun.
I used to not use it indoor, but it got tedious not to. :?
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A druid is a nature person. I don't consider indoors and underground to be places of your typical nature lover, and therefore don't mind if some of their spells aren't working in those places.
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Yeah, I forgot about that. Never understood how people have been using them in dungeons.
Simple, its the one really good offensive spell the Druids get :D, until really late that is.. Keep that spell the way it is, druids gotta have some fun.
I used to not use it indoor, but it got tedious not to. :?
correct me if i'm wrong but isnt there something with call lightening where if there is a path of any kind to the sky you could use it underground? or am i thinking 2nd ed again?
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If you can see the sky, I don't see why it wouldn't work. However, I don't think any of our underground areas has such a 'skylight'. I'm a 2nd Edition guy too, and I'm pretty sure you needed some kind of line-of-sight for call lightning to work. You are after all calling the lightning down from the sky. If there is ground or a roof in your way, your lightning isn't going to be much use.
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By the way, firebrand does more damage than call lighting. Firebrand goes up to 15d6 in normal nwn.
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Ours is nerfed to 10d6, however, making Firebrand basically a party-friendly version of Fireball with +2 more added to the DC.
As for call lightning indoors, it'd be easier to just disable it than to thumb through excuses to have it work in the particular indoor area.
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I'll bring up the issue of call lightning working indoors.
One thing you must remember is the druid spellset is horribly nerfed in NWN vs PnP, moreso than any other casting class.
Having played 4 druids far into epic levels on several servers, call lightning is as it is because quite frankly, call lightning is the only spell they have to kill things. And that isn't an exaggeration in the least. Wizards on the other hand can kill you fifteen different ways til Sunday, with or without firebrand.
With the alterations to summons and animal companions RL already has in place, I wouldn't start a druid unless I was bribed honestly. Altering call lightning in any way and I doubt anyone ever would (can't really recall many druids in RL as it is, for obvious reasons). What do you expect a druid to do if they can't cast it indoors? Sit there and watch everyone else participate in killing? Restrict themselves to wandering around outside killing worgs forever (since that's all they're going to be able to kill)?
For a class that has little going for it, I really hope you don't take away the only thing it does have to use. Especially when the other casting peers it has are still horribly overpowered and too versatile in this ruleset. Removing or altering call lightning from what it is makes Harper Scouts more useful looking than druids would be. Logic is nice to have, but it shouldn't trump balance.
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I agree.
Call Lightning is best left alone, for the one reason that it is the only good spell druids have up till 7th lvl + spells. Druids after all get less spells than clerics, less useful spells than em etc. They get a little more spells than a non-specialized wizard, but again far less useful ones.
And considering the lack of Wilderness Areas in NWN in general the druid becomes even suckier, personally I find it strange that caves and such arent flagged as wilderness. I personally think every area not worked upon by a sentient being is wilderness or inhabited, meaning every naturally formed area should be counted as wilderness, but apparently it aint that way.
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Call Lightening could conceiveably work underground if....
The druid was displacing the charged ions between the roof and the floor of the cavern(possible considering various elements within the rock could support "charging". Forcing the flow of the negative charge one way, and the positive to a point beneath the target. Then surrounding the charge with a zone of resistance such that it's easiest route of discharge would be to arc tot he floor.
Druids might not understand it to work in this way, but might concieveably have the ability to perform such an action with their control over nature. This is of course, not as easily explained in a "man-made" structure
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druids had a indoors call lightning called "Static charge" or something in Icewind dale 2, but they never implemended it to nwn.
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I personally am gonna use it indoors... I'm gonna go with a collection of static electricity... released at the same time... otherwise flame strike should not work indoors either.
HOWEVER I am gonna hot key an emote so that before I cast it there is forewarning.
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What about icestorm, acid rain, fire storm.. dunno might be a few more. These have specific rulings too no? Since we're not going canon rules with all other spells I don't see why we should with call lightning. It's a +2 dc yes. But druids in comparison to mages do not have as big a choice when it comes to offensive spells. Firebrand also targets the enemies for you and hits a larger AoE than fireball.
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Actually, doesnt lot of spells need components?
Before anyone gets this the last sentence wrong, I'll explain.
Unless there's an overpowered spell (such like harm/bigbye, etc) that really unbalances something. Let the spells be, else, give them all their true restrictions and components requirements. Which is a pain in the ass to scrypt and it's a pain in the ass for casters too and would make playing a caster tedious and un-wanted... bringing in only negative consequences rather than positives.
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besides according to the 3.5 PnP rules atleast, cant remember 3.0 rules. Call Lightning works indoors
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besides according to the 3.5 PnP rules atleast, cant remember 3.0 rules. Call Lightning works indoors
Cool..
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yes but i think the questoin would be are we using 3.5 rules? or 3.0? nwn is based on 3.0 there fore i belive we should go with the 3.0 rules pnp wise when it comes to how spells should function but thats me
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yes but i think the questoin would be are we using 3.5 rules? or 3.0? nwn is based on 3.0 there fore i belive we should go with the 3.0 rules pnp wise when it comes to how spells should function but thats me
It never ceases to confuse me why folks seem to think there is this GIGANTIC difference between 3.0 and 3.5 . It's not the Systems that are screwy, it's the NwN build of them since it's true to NEITHER version (as shown by it's amalgamation of skills and what not) It's Close, but not a true representation. (As shown by the all the things made by the NwN community to MAKE it like the PnP versions).
Just for the Hell of it.
Call Lightning 3.5 :
Call Lightning
Evocation [Electricity]
Level: Drd 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: One or more 30-ft.-long vertical lines of lightning
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes
Immediately upon completion of the spell, and once per round thereafter, you may call down a 5-foot-wide, 30-foot-long, vertical bolt of lightning that deals 3d6 points of electricity damage. The bolt of lightning flashes down in a vertical stroke at whatever target point you choose within the spell’s range (measured from your position at the time). Any creature in the target square or in the path of the bolt is affected.
You need not call a bolt of lightning immediately; other actions, even spellcasting, can be performed. However, each round after the first you may use a standard action (concentrating on the spell) to call a bolt. You may call a total number of bolts equal to your caster level (maximum 10 bolts).
If you are outdoors and in a stormy area—a rain shower, clouds and wind, hot and cloudy conditions, or even a tornado (including a whirlwind formed by a djinni or an air elemental of at least Large size)—each bolt deals 3d10 points of electricity damage instead of 3d6.
This spell functions indoors or underground but not underwater.
So yes it does work Inside but works better Outside. There is also a 5th level Version :
Call Lightning Storm
Evocation [Electricity]
Level: Drd 5
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
This spell functions like call lightning, except that each bolt deals 5d6 points of electricity damage (or 5d10 if created outdoors in a stormy area), and you may call a maximum of 15 bolts.
3.0 Version: (Which IS limited to Stormy Areas Outside)
Call Lightning
Evocation [Electricity]
Level: Drd 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes, plus 1 action per bolt called
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect: See text
Duration: 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes
To cast call lightning, the character must be in a stormy area (including a whirlwind formed by a djinn or air elemental of 7 HD or more). The character is then able to call bolts of lightning as long as the character remains in the stormy area. (The spell ends if the character leaves the stormy area.) The character can call down one bolt every 10 minutes. The character need not call a bolt of lightning immediately—other actions, even spellcasting, can be performed. However, the character must use a standard action (concentrating on the spell) to call each bolt. A bolt causes 1d10 points of electrical damage per caster level (maximum 10d10).
The bolt of lightning strikes down in a vertical stroke at whatever target point the character chooses, within range (measured from the character's position at the time). The bolt takes the shortest possible unobstructed path between a nearby cloud and the target. Any creature within a 10-foot radius of the path or the point where the lightning strikes is affected.
This spell can be used only outdoors. It does not function indoors, underground, or underwater.
Little bit of a difference, as In being OUTSIDE for one. Druids are Shafted Enough with the Spell Nerfs allready in place to relegate one of their very few Offensive spells to 3.0 (when even the Ravenloft Material adjusted to 3.5 with very little hiccuping (By the time the DM's Guide came out).
Remember, NwN is not really either 3.0 or 3.5. If anything it's DnDNwN (:D). Just for the folks wondering what the big changes were between the two editions.
DnD Changes: (Snipped from the Wiki so folks don't have to scroll through the other 1/4 mile of article, cleaned up a bit too)
Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition to 3.5 Edition
This revision was intentionally a small one (hence the name change of only "half an edition"), small enough so that the basic rules are nearly identical and many monsters / items are compatible (or even unchanged) between those editions. In fact, some players, disliking some changes 3.5 made, use some 3e rules as house rules. Official errata for many of the most popular books are available for download as D&D v.3.5 Accessory Update Booklet.
Major changes
* The ranger class receives more skill points and new class abilities, though fewer hit points.
* Druids can cast Summon Nature's Ally spells spontaneously, just like the cleric's spontaneous casting. Their abilities were also reworked and animal companions were improved.
* Weapon sizes work differently: there are now smaller and bigger versions of weapons for smaller and larger creatures.
* Damage reduction no longer depends on the enhancement bonus of a weapon, but rather on its material (e.g. cold iron), magical enhancement, magical alignment, damage type, or some combination thereof. DR ratings were reduced to 5, 10, 15, or 20 from a range of much higher numbers (e.g. the iron golem went from 50/+3 to 15/adamantine).
* New spells and numerous changes to existing spells.
* New feats and numerous changes to existing feats.
* Monsters gain feats and skills the same way as PCs, usually resulting in more skill points and feats for every monster.
* The favored class for gnomes was changed to bard.
* Some high-end monsters (notably the balor and pit fiend) were altered to make them more powerful and thus warrant higher Challenge Ratings.
* Many new core prestige classes.
Minor changes
* The bard receives more skill points per level.
* Different rate of gaining new abilities for almost all the classes.
* Bards do not suffer arcane spell failure when wearing light armor.
* Some player races gain Weapon Familiarity, which allows them to treat exotic racial weapons as martial for proficiency purposes.
* Sorcerers and bards can change known spells infrequently.
* The base speed of Dwarves is not reduced by armor or encumberance.
* There are no longer skills exclusive to certain classes.
* Some skills changed and a few were folded together: for example, Wilderness Lore and Intuit Direction are now Survival.
Changes to the core books
In addition to rule changes, the core books themselves underwent changes.
* The chapter on combat (chapter 8) in the Player's Handbook was modified to increase focus on grid-based movement and combat.
* The chapter order of the Dungeon Master's Guide was completely changed, and many prestige classes were added. Some magic item traits were changed as well, though they generally remained the same.
* The Monster Manual's monster entries changed slightly. In particular, the attack line was split into Attack and Full Attack entries. Also, most monsters gained an enhanced version as an example of advancement, with more Hit Dice, a template, or class levels. All of the monsters that the writers thought could be used as player races gained instructions on how to use them as such.
All in all not a lot of changes and still considered a mistake by many in the industry (Very mean thing to do to a lot of companies......ah well it's YOUR backstock not ours). The Druids need all the love they can get otherwise you never see any real druids, Just Shifters.
I wouldn't mess with one of the few spells they get In the name of trying to figure out wether it's 3.0 or 3.5. After all the NwN version is what, a Big storm of Lighting, effects similar to a fireball? I don't think the computer version is really like either of those spells listed, at least in it's in game effect.
Does look nifty though. Should send Natives running for the hills.
~Rex
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Yeh, visual for Call Lightning is awesome, nearly as cool as Evards Molesting Tentacles..
//When playing DnD Pen and Paper we never used the nerfed versions of feats, especially the crappy Spell Focuses of 3.5..
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Good thing Barovia is stormy 99.99% of the time, rite?
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I'd say, rains a lot, like england. Best description of that I have heard came from Henry Rollins. "Rain in england is like a sky full of old men spitting on the back of your neck." pitooie....pitooie....drip....drip.
Visually it's a cool spell, and it pulls it off without tons of lag somehow. Great to send natives running.
~Rex