Author Topic: Curse Song does not break invisibility while using Subsonics  (Read 1718 times)

BattleCupcake

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
  • The Old Cat Bard
Curse Song does not break invisibility while using Subsonics
« on: August 19, 2018, 05:49:26 PM »
Title. I predict this may be a side-effect of whatever scripting was done to make subsonics apply bard song effects "quietly", but as a damaging attack effect, Curse Song should break invisibility when used, and its damage should, similarly, appear in the combat log (for the benefit of both the bard, and whomever was assailed).

As it is now, I can tromp through wherever I please using Move Silently and Curse Song, and it does not break invisibility (nor does it even cause enemies to detect me).

Phantasia

  • Stealth/Detection Cognoscenti
  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 1336
  • ¿
Re: Curse Song does not break invisibility while using Subsonics
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2018, 05:50:17 PM »
It's not supposed to. That's how Subsonics works.
Le cœur voit plus loin que l'esprit.
The heart sees further than the mind.

APorg

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 5336
  • Fanatic Xenophile
Re: Curse Song does not break invisibility while using Subsonics
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2018, 06:03:43 PM »
Damaging attacks should always break invisibility. Hell, active hostile  AoE effects cast before a fresh Invisibility will break it at the next damage tick.
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

EO

  • Assistant Head DM/Developer
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 22401
  • The one and only, the one everyone wants to be!
Re: Curse Song does not break invisibility while using Subsonics
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2018, 06:05:20 PM »
It’s intentional.

APorg

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 5336
  • Fanatic Xenophile
Re: Curse Song does not break invisibility while using Subsonics
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2018, 06:08:17 PM »
Then that breaks the rules of invisibility; attacks break invisibility.
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

BattleCupcake

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
  • The Old Cat Bard
Re: Curse Song does not break invisibility while using Subsonics
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2018, 06:13:05 PM »
Then that breaks the rules of invisibility; attacks break invisibility.

I second this opinion. If it's intentional, great, consider this a suggestion and not a bug. But I do not think the decision to consciously allow an effect as powerful as Curse Song to bypass the usual rules of breaking concealment is a good one. It's cheesy.

On the same vein, I noticed that bard song will refresh its duration and re-roll temporary hit points when using Subsonics, even while another bard song is active (unlike without Subsonics).
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 07:21:12 PM by BattleCupcake »

APorg

  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 5336
  • Fanatic Xenophile
Re: Curse Song does not break invisibility while using Subsonics
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2018, 06:33:48 PM »
Curse Song doesn't exist in base DnD; it's a NWN only effect. Certainly nothing in DnD 3.5 bard song allows them to do direct damage. Furthermore, Curse Song is not weak; if anything, it is very strong (I'd even argue it is overpowered, but that's another discussion) -- stronger certainly than any comparable 3.5 material.

Attacks break invisibility; if Curse Song does damage, it is an attack. Hell, casting a non-damaging hostile spell on someone counts as an attack, and Curse Song is more powerful than many spells. To therefore allow an effect that is already much stronger than average, to outright break rules like this, is highly questionable.

And bards are not a weak class.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2018, 06:38:14 PM by aprogressivist »
“Moral wounds have this peculiarity - they may be hidden, but they never close; always painful, always ready to bleed when touched, they remain fresh and open in the heart.”
― Alexandre Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

EO

  • Assistant Head DM/Developer
  • Head DMs
  • Dark Power
  • ******
  • Posts: 22401
  • The one and only, the one everyone wants to be!
Re: Curse Song does not break invisibility while using Subsonics
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2018, 08:42:15 PM »
Curse Song doesn't exist in base DnD; it's a NWN only effect. Certainly nothing in DnD 3.5 bard song allows them to do direct damage. Furthermore, Curse Song is not weak; if anything, it is very strong (I'd even argue it is overpowered, but that's another discussion) -- stronger certainly than any comparable 3.5 material.

Attacks break invisibility; if Curse Song does damage, it is an attack. Hell, casting a non-damaging hostile spell on someone counts as an attack, and Curse Song is more powerful than many spells. To therefore allow an effect that is already much stronger than average, to outright break rules like this, is highly questionable.

And bards are not a weak class.

Curse Song never broke invisibility in NwN, subsonics or not. If we want it to, it'd need a hak update.

Netrial

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 92
Re: Curse Song does not break invisibility while using Subsonics
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2018, 09:50:53 PM »
My experience with curse song is that while it is in subsonics, is that is does not do damage. No damage means that it was not considered an attack. You can check this via the attack log.
And if it's not a attack, it does not break invisibility.

I read on the discord server from EO that it is suppose to do damage, but it's never happened for me. I don't consider this a bug, either.
(Amber-)Marie Eurus, Sil Twilblin

Phantasia

  • Stealth/Detection Cognoscenti
  • Developers
  • Dark Power
  • *
  • Posts: 1336
  • ¿
Re: Curse Song does not break invisibility while using Subsonics
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2018, 09:55:15 PM »
It does do damage. It just is scripted to not show up in the combat log period. So the hostile players (likely) do not know where the source is coming from.
Le cœur voit plus loin que l'esprit.
The heart sees further than the mind.

Netrial

  • Outlander
  • **
  • Posts: 92
Re: Curse Song does not break invisibility while using Subsonics
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2018, 01:01:33 AM »
I tested this on rats, and you are correct. It feels strange, because I had never noticed this when I had subsonic'd other opponents.
(Amber-)Marie Eurus, Sil Twilblin

BattleCupcake

  • Undead Slayer
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
  • The Old Cat Bard
Re: Curse Song does not break invisibility while using Subsonics
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2018, 01:03:16 AM »
I tested this on rats, and you are correct. It feels strange, because I had never noticed this when I had subsonic'd other opponents.

The damage is difficult to notice sometimes. A werewolf will regenerate it off in a few rounds if left alone, incorporeal creatures are immune, and some enemies like ogres will still be uninjured. But the damage does work!